This makes you a great man.
A picture says more than a thousand words
Agreed. I see tons of post on Reddit that go something like: I stopped making gainz and I’m 20, should I go on TRT? Lol
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What if one of my symptoms pre trt was not being able to gain muscle or strength while working out?
Having 170 total testosterone really hurt my ability to build muscle.
I tell you this, if you took the time that you spent making irrelevant graphs, and did something useful, you’d give Greta Thunberg a real run for her money!
You are not going to like my opinion. I greatly doubt that the critical “x” for you gaining muscle and strength is low testosterone.
It is an easy test. Just run 400mg/wk testosterone and watch your muscle and strength rise. (BTW, that is double the testosterone that I ever took, except 10 days out from a show.)
I chased the holy grail of muscle gain for 15 years, before having to acknowledge it was out of my reach.
Please don’t take my advise, touch the hot stove for yourself. Regrettably the feedback is closer to a decade.
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Gotcha. Thanks, that is what i thought but had hoped you actually had something useful behind all your BS. Best wishes.
Lack of gainz could be a symptom of a bad diet and poor programming too. But, in your case, I’d assume you have that in check and your hormones are holding you back. As this is case by case, I’d think you’re fine.
Nope. I just have lame jokes…to offset your lame graphs.
I appreciate the attempt to help, but…
I’ve been on exogenous testosterone for almost 9 years now, and I’ve been able to gain strength and muscle, commensurate with the effort I put in. Within weeks of starting testosterone, I noticed strength gains. And then I noticed that I’m able to build muscle just like I did 23 years ago when my natural T levels were higher than 170.
So among other things, exogenous test helped me feel like my normal self again, when it comes to working out.
As long as you are pleased with your results, that is all that matters.
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My question was in response to what @RT_Nomad said here:
I was basically telling him that TRT can help increase size and strength, AND one symptom of low T is the inability to gain muscle and strength.
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Disclaimer: I am an idiot.
I am going with clit on this one. If you were legit low T and then do 1000 ng/dl trough with twice weekly TC and cant gain noticeable size and strength you have a serious issue with your program.
Been castrate for 2 months and noticeable difference to size and strength. Can hold 20 lb at same bf and another 0.5 in on waist with trt+
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I don’t understand this. Maybe putting this in a graph would make it easier to understand.
I’m good. I will save the graphs for folks genuinely interested in learning.
I thought I was crazy reading through a lot of posts on the forums with dudes acting like it won’t greatly help physique. Night and day difference within the first few weeks as you mentioned. I ain’t no slouch and always had a great physique but in my early 30s something happened, something was off, obviously we decline with age but I noticed my physique in relative to work ethic fell off the damn cliff compared to before.
I don’t think “inability” to build muscle is a good bench mark for low T. It’s undeniably easier with proper to high range T though, I wholeheartedly agree. For example I could bench 300, squat 400 and pull 400 with low T. I was strong at a paltry 165 lbs. After TOT I gained 25lbs and all lifts are substantially more. My physique is 50% better. It’s night and day.
This still deviates from the original point. @lordgains backed it up with a good analogy to @tareload data using Ibuprofen. I did the same a few days ago with Oxy users abusing it. Both seems lost on @cliteastwood.
Point being is that we don’t need to convince the minority that TOT “may” have consequences. @cliteastwood is fine with it. So am I as I do it to. The point is to convince the majority of new and uneducated TRT guys what a healthy baseline for treatment should be.
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A bit of a deviation from that specific topic but boy I am feeling all these emotions come about as the AI is clearing out of my system even though I reduced my T dose to 100mg a week. I am really hoping that putting my pride aside and lowering it for the first time to this point gets me the best over all results.
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I’ve read about a few people here that had no strength issues, and muscle building issues with low t. It certainly wasn’t the case with me. Those were just two of the many low t issues I had.
You’re right on that. I definitely think it’s a bad analogy. Considering that the amount of ibuprofen wasn’t relative to the amount of t I’m talking about.
Does anyone want to address the fact that TRT, as defined by some as having total t within lab range, can overlap TOT? To me, TOT is being optimal, or taking close to the least amount of t that relieves low t symptoms. If someone has symptom relief and has a total t of 500, in my book that’s both TRT and TOT.