2015 NFL Off Season

Off Topic
821

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]daltron wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]daltron wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Aggv wrote:

[quote]daltron wrote:
Romo is underrated
[/quote]

Underrated?

[/quote]

Lol, ya, he’s average at best. Good numbers, but lacks the ability to win the big games. He’s a below average version of Brett Favre. [/quote]

He’s been put in many bad situations, especially with play calling. I have no ties to the Cowboys, but Romo gets a bad rap too often. While stats are not the end all, statistically he has been a very good QB year in and out. Obviously the Cowboy’s playoff record since 2006 is… dismal at best, however that’s not all him. As for big games, he has had bad moments like any QB. However, I wouldn’t say he lacks the ability to win big games. Last year’s game vs. Seattle was pretty impressive. While they didn’t pull off the win, their loss to Denver to 2013 showed he can play near perfect in a big game (506 yards, 14.1 YPA, 5 TD’s, 1 Int). While the Cowboys have underachieved, one losing season in nine seasons isn’t nothing to sneeze at.
[/quote]

Ya, he’s fine statistically. I’ve defended him on here before actually. He just doesn’t win like other qbs. [/quote]

I’ll give you that, yeah. IMO, elite QB’s should be able to consistently take over games, and I don’t feel he does that. I don’t think Romo is top 5, but I think people slot him significantly lower than he should be.
[/quote]
Agreed and I am a long, long time Cowboys fan.

Just out of curiosity who is the top 5 currently playing? [/quote]

Top 5 in my opinion?

That’s a tough one honestly. It’s hard to judge talent and the intangibles while leveraging things like receiving talent, the offensive system, and quality of the O-line.

In no particular order, it would probably be Rodgers, Brady, Roethlisberger, Luck, and… Manning or Brees?

822

[quote]daltron wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]daltron wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]daltron wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Aggv wrote:

[quote]daltron wrote:
Romo is underrated
[/quote]

Underrated?

[/quote]

Lol, ya, he’s average at best. Good numbers, but lacks the ability to win the big games. He’s a below average version of Brett Favre. [/quote]

He’s been put in many bad situations, especially with play calling. I have no ties to the Cowboys, but Romo gets a bad rap too often. While stats are not the end all, statistically he has been a very good QB year in and out. Obviously the Cowboy’s playoff record since 2006 is… dismal at best, however that’s not all him. As for big games, he has had bad moments like any QB. However, I wouldn’t say he lacks the ability to win big games. Last year’s game vs. Seattle was pretty impressive. While they didn’t pull off the win, their loss to Denver to 2013 showed he can play near perfect in a big game (506 yards, 14.1 YPA, 5 TD’s, 1 Int). While the Cowboys have underachieved, one losing season in nine seasons isn’t nothing to sneeze at.
[/quote]

Ya, he’s fine statistically. I’ve defended him on here before actually. He just doesn’t win like other qbs. [/quote]

I’ll give you that, yeah. IMO, elite QB’s should be able to consistently take over games, and I don’t feel he does that. I don’t think Romo is top 5, but I think people slot him significantly lower than he should be.
[/quote]
Agreed and I am a long, long time Cowboys fan.

Just out of curiosity who is the top 5 currently playing? [/quote]

Top 5 in my opinion?

That’s a tough one honestly. It’s hard to judge talent and the intangibles while leveraging things like receiving talent, the offensive system, and quality of the O-line.

In no particular order, it would probably be Rodgers, Brady, Roethlisberger, Luck, and… Manning or Brees?
[/quote]
Agreed see this is what I always bring up to people. You take Brady or Rogers and put them behind the Raiders line with their WR for the past few years.

How would they do? I like to judge a QB by what they can do without the talent around them. Can they elevate their team period and regardless of the WR and OL.

Rogers, Brady and P Manning are top three to me. In no particular order. I think you drop them in Oakland over the past 4 years and they would make them a playoff team.

Brees and Big Ben I am not really sure if they can do it with out some help but I could see them being 4 and 5.

823

Brady takes random guys to the playoffs every year, he is the goat.

824

[quote]Aggv wrote:
Brady takes random guys to the playoffs every year, he is the goat. [/quote]
Yep so does P Manning and I am pretty sure that A Rogers could also.

825

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]daltron wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]daltron wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]daltron wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Aggv wrote:

[quote]daltron wrote:
Romo is underrated
[/quote]

Underrated?

[/quote]

Lol, ya, he’s average at best. Good numbers, but lacks the ability to win the big games. He’s a below average version of Brett Favre. [/quote]

He’s been put in many bad situations, especially with play calling. I have no ties to the Cowboys, but Romo gets a bad rap too often. While stats are not the end all, statistically he has been a very good QB year in and out. Obviously the Cowboy’s playoff record since 2006 is… dismal at best, however that’s not all him. As for big games, he has had bad moments like any QB. However, I wouldn’t say he lacks the ability to win big games. Last year’s game vs. Seattle was pretty impressive. While they didn’t pull off the win, their loss to Denver to 2013 showed he can play near perfect in a big game (506 yards, 14.1 YPA, 5 TD’s, 1 Int). While the Cowboys have underachieved, one losing season in nine seasons isn’t nothing to sneeze at.
[/quote]

Ya, he’s fine statistically. I’ve defended him on here before actually. He just doesn’t win like other qbs. [/quote]

I’ll give you that, yeah. IMO, elite QB’s should be able to consistently take over games, and I don’t feel he does that. I don’t think Romo is top 5, but I think people slot him significantly lower than he should be.
[/quote]
Agreed and I am a long, long time Cowboys fan.

Just out of curiosity who is the top 5 currently playing? [/quote]

Top 5 in my opinion?

That’s a tough one honestly. It’s hard to judge talent and the intangibles while leveraging things like receiving talent, the offensive system, and quality of the O-line.

In no particular order, it would probably be Rodgers, Brady, Roethlisberger, Luck, and… Manning or Brees?
[/quote]
Agreed see this is what I always bring up to people. You take Brady or Rogers and put them behind the Raiders line with their WR for the past few years.

How would they do? I like to judge a QB by what they can do without the talent around them. Can they elevate their team period and regardless of the WR and OL.

Rogers, Brady and P Manning are top three to me. In no particular order. I think you drop them in Oakland over the past 4 years and they would make them a playoff team.

Brees and Big Ben I am not really sure if they can do it with out some help but I could see them being 4 and 5. [/quote]

Correct me if I am wrong, Derek. Weren’t you one of the posters on here praising Russel Wilson.

826

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]Aggv wrote:
Brady takes random guys to the playoffs every year, he is the goat. [/quote]
Yep so does P Manning and I am pretty sure that A Rogers could also. [/quote]

4 > 1

827

If I may interject, I am high on Wilson. He has been pretty good given that he really hasn’t had much receiving talent around him. Granted, having an elite defense and running game makes a big difference and he doesn’t have to throw as much as the rest of the league, but regardless he has been impressive with the throws he has made.

He’s accurate, has a high TD to INT ratio, and great YPA. Besides wanting to see what he can do when he has to carry the load and throw 100-150+ more attempts a season, I’m excited to see Jimmy Graham in that offense.

828

Russel Wilson is great. He is like a perfect cyborg jock, coach-able to the point of running the stupidest play in the history of the superbowl.

829

[quote]Aggv wrote:
Russel Wilson is great. He is like a perfect cyborg jock, coach-able to the point of running the stupidest play in the history of the superbowl.[/quote]

I think they get more flak than that then they should.

People seem to forget details of the play. Everyone wants to go, why didn’t they run it, as if the play happened in a perfect vacuum.

  • The clock was winding down and they needed a TD
  • They had one time out left
  • When the center hiked the ball, there was 26 seconds left on the clock
  • Shotgun formation with 3WR against a goal line formation
  • Lynch had no gains on 2 of his 4 short yardage situations in the game
  • Lynch’s rushing average plummeted with the previous 5 carries

However, most importantly, an undrafted free agent made an unbelievably phenomenal play. Everyone seems to ignore the ridiculously low chances of that play unfolding how it did. The ball was thrown well, the receiver (2 inches and 20 pounds heavier than Butler) had great positioning on the CB, but Butler made a great physical play.

830

[quote]daltron wrote:
If I may interject, I am high on Wilson. He has been pretty good given that he really hasn’t had much receiving talent around him. Granted, having an elite defense and running game makes a big difference and he doesn’t have to throw as much as the rest of the league, but regardless he has been impressive with the throws he has made.

He’s accurate, has a high TD to INT ratio, and great YPA. Besides wanting to see what he can do when he has to carry the load and throw 100-150+ more attempts a season, I’m excited to see Jimmy Graham in that offense.[/quote]

Russell Wilson, imo, is the perfect example in todays NFL of a player who gets glory being on a stacked team.

I remember hearing or seeing talk that he has an expectation of himself to be one of the greatest ever! Wilson would only elevate a teams performance if that team was suffering from terrible qb play and needed a game manager who can move pretty good.

831

[quote]daltron wrote:

[quote]Aggv wrote:
Russel Wilson is great. He is like a perfect cyborg jock, coach-able to the point of running the stupidest play in the history of the superbowl.[/quote]

I think they get more flak than that then they should.

People seem to forget details of the play. Everyone wants to go, why didn’t they run it, as if the play happened in a perfect vacuum.

  • The clock was winding down and they needed a TD
  • They had one time out left
  • When the center hiked the ball, there was 26 seconds left on the clock
  • Shotgun formation with 3WR against a goal line formation
  • Lynch had no gains on 2 of his 4 short yardage situations in the game
  • Lynch’s rushing average plummeted with the previous 5 carries

However, most importantly, an undrafted free agent made an unbelievably phenomenal play. Everyone seems to ignore the ridiculously low chances of that play unfolding how it did. The ball was thrown well, the receiver (2 inches and 20 pounds heavier than Butler) had great positioning on the CB, but Butler made a great physical play.

[/quote]

Didn’t they have a timeout? Wasn’t Lynch in the backfield?

The play was an interior reciever slant at the goal line. Run a fade, an out, move around. Give the ball to your back and walk out of there with back to back championships. That was one of the dumbest championship game calls in any sport I can remember seeing…ever

832

[quote]mbdix wrote:

[quote]daltron wrote:
If I may interject, I am high on Wilson. He has been pretty good given that he really hasn’t had much receiving talent around him. Granted, having an elite defense and running game makes a big difference and he doesn’t have to throw as much as the rest of the league, but regardless he has been impressive with the throws he has made.

He’s accurate, has a high TD to INT ratio, and great YPA. Besides wanting to see what he can do when he has to carry the load and throw 100-150+ more attempts a season, I’m excited to see Jimmy Graham in that offense.[/quote]

Russell Wilson, imo, is the perfect example in todays NFL of a player who gets glory being on a stacked team.

I remember hearing or seeing talk that he has an expectation of himself to be one of the greatest ever! Wilson would only elevate a teams performance if that team was suffering from terrible qb play and needed a game manager who can move pretty good.
[/quote]

Why is wanting to the best a bad thing? That’s a trait all elite QB’s have. You say he is a game manager, but discount the fact that he has had no talent to throw to and yet still produces great stats? His pass catchers last year in order of yardage totals: UFA, UFA, 5th, 2nd, UFA. Game managers don’t have 2.8 touchdowns for every interception, average 7.95 YPA, and a 98.6 QB rating in their first 3 seasons. His TD:INT ratio in his first three seasons is better than any current QB’s first three seasons.

833

[quote]mbdix wrote:

[quote]daltron wrote:

[quote]Aggv wrote:
Russel Wilson is great. He is like a perfect cyborg jock, coach-able to the point of running the stupidest play in the history of the superbowl.[/quote]

I think they get more flak than that then they should.

People seem to forget details of the play. Everyone wants to go, why didn’t they run it, as if the play happened in a perfect vacuum.

  • The clock was winding down and they needed a TD
  • They had one time out left
  • When the center hiked the ball, there was 26 seconds left on the clock
  • Shotgun formation with 3WR against a goal line formation
  • Lynch had no gains on 2 of his 4 short yardage situations in the game
  • Lynch’s rushing average plummeted with the previous 5 carries

However, most importantly, an undrafted free agent made an unbelievably phenomenal play. Everyone seems to ignore the ridiculously low chances of that play unfolding how it did. The ball was thrown well, the receiver (2 inches and 20 pounds heavier than Butler) had great positioning on the CB, but Butler made a great physical play.

[/quote]

Didn’t they have a timeout? Wasn’t Lynch in the backfield?

The play was an interior reciever slant at the goal line. Run a fade, an out, move around. Give the ball to your back and walk out of there with back to back championships. That was one of the dumbest championship game calls in any sport I can remember seeing…ever
[/quote]

Yes, they had a time out, just like I listed they did. The clock was also running and they had three more attempts at the end zone.

As for the pass, statistically it was the least likely to be intercepted, most likely to be a reception, and most likely to be a touchdown compared to other types of throws outside the hashes. Again, magnificent play by Malcom Butler in what was one of the best defensive plays of the season.

So, to sum it up, Shotgun 3WR formation against a goaline defense, statistically safe pass, absolutely incredible defensive play.

834

[quote]daltron wrote:
So, to sum it up, Shotgun 3WR formation against a goaline defense, statistically safe pass, absolutely incredible defensive play. [/quote]

The “Do your Job” on NFL network did a great job of going through this from the Pats perspective. Highly suggest watching it.

Still, you give the ball to beast mode. Especially with a time out, and multiple attempts to slam it in. If it wasnt for an amazing tackle (possibly better, more important than the int) lynch would have scored on their first attempt. Beast mode got them there, dont fix what isnt broken.

835

[quote]mbdix wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]daltron wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]daltron wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]daltron wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]Aggv wrote:

[quote]daltron wrote:
Romo is underrated
[/quote]

Underrated?

[/quote]

Lol, ya, he’s average at best. Good numbers, but lacks the ability to win the big games. He’s a below average version of Brett Favre. [/quote]

He’s been put in many bad situations, especially with play calling. I have no ties to the Cowboys, but Romo gets a bad rap too often. While stats are not the end all, statistically he has been a very good QB year in and out. Obviously the Cowboy’s playoff record since 2006 is… dismal at best, however that’s not all him. As for big games, he has had bad moments like any QB. However, I wouldn’t say he lacks the ability to win big games. Last year’s game vs. Seattle was pretty impressive. While they didn’t pull off the win, their loss to Denver to 2013 showed he can play near perfect in a big game (506 yards, 14.1 YPA, 5 TD’s, 1 Int). While the Cowboys have underachieved, one losing season in nine seasons isn’t nothing to sneeze at.
[/quote]

Ya, he’s fine statistically. I’ve defended him on here before actually. He just doesn’t win like other qbs. [/quote]

I’ll give you that, yeah. IMO, elite QB’s should be able to consistently take over games, and I don’t feel he does that. I don’t think Romo is top 5, but I think people slot him significantly lower than he should be.
[/quote]
Agreed and I am a long, long time Cowboys fan.

Just out of curiosity who is the top 5 currently playing? [/quote]

Top 5 in my opinion?

That’s a tough one honestly. It’s hard to judge talent and the intangibles while leveraging things like receiving talent, the offensive system, and quality of the O-line.

In no particular order, it would probably be Rodgers, Brady, Roethlisberger, Luck, and… Manning or Brees?
[/quote]
Agreed see this is what I always bring up to people. You take Brady or Rogers and put them behind the Raiders line with their WR for the past few years.

How would they do? I like to judge a QB by what they can do without the talent around them. Can they elevate their team period and regardless of the WR and OL.

Rogers, Brady and P Manning are top three to me. In no particular order. I think you drop them in Oakland over the past 4 years and they would make them a playoff team.

Brees and Big Ben I am not really sure if they can do it with out some help but I could see them being 4 and 5. [/quote]

Correct me if I am wrong, Derek. Weren’t you one of the posters on here praising Russel Wilson.[/quote]
Only ever praise I have for R Wilson is that he is a very smart young man with drive, passion and winning attitude. For a young man to come into the NFL and do what he has done is rare IMO. He is not an elite QB because with my analogy you drop him in Oakland and he would not have been able to produce immediately.

However would I want him as my QB? Very much so. (Not to replace Romo, I love Romo)

836

[quote]Aggv wrote:

[quote]daltron wrote:
So, to sum it up, Shotgun 3WR formation against a goaline defense, statistically safe pass, absolutely incredible defensive play. [/quote]

The “Do your Job” on NFL network did a great job of going through this from the Pats perspective. Highly suggest watching it.

Still, you give the ball to beast mode. Especially with a time out, and multiple attempts to slam it in. If it wasnt for an amazing tackle (possibly better, more important than the int) lynch would have scored on their first attempt. Beast mode got them there, dont fix what isnt broken. [/quote]

I missed that, I will have to search it and set it to record the next time it airs. Thanks for the tip! I still need to sit down and watch America’s Game for last season on my DVR.

837

[quote]daltron wrote:

Why is wanting to the best a bad thing? That’s a trait all elite QB’s have. [/quote]

I don’t want my QB of my team talking like this “Why can’t I be the best quarterback to ever play the game one day?” after winning the first Superbowl on a team that should be in contention for the Superbowl for the next 2 to 3 years. (He said that in the off-season after they won it.) It is not wrong to want to accomplish that and strive to play the game to put yourself in contention for that title.

But, I wouldn’t want to hear my QB say that after year two and coming off a Superbowl win, that was made possible by a dominate defense and running game. To many players on the team are going to feel that he is getting to much credit. And fast forward two years and talk around the league is that a lot of the players on Seattle are upset with the credit that some players are getting. He should have never said that IMO.

838

[quote]mbdix wrote:

[quote]daltron wrote:

Why is wanting to the best a bad thing? That’s a trait all elite QB’s have. [/quote]
I don’t want my QB of my team talking like this “Why can’t I be the best quarterback to ever play the game one day?” after winning the first Superbowl on a team that should be in contention for the Superbowl for the next 2 to 3 years. (He said that in the off-season after they won it.) It is not wrong to want to accomplish that and strive to play the game to put yourself in contention for that title. But, I wouldn’t want to hear my QB say that after year two and coming off a Superbowl win, that was made possible by a dominate defense and running game. To many players on the team are going to feel that he is getting to much credit. And fast forward two years and talk around the league is that a lot of the players on Seattle are upset with the credit that some players are getting. He should have never said that IMO.

[/quote]

I think you are overreacting to his comments, and more importantly are downplaying his own accomplishments just because he has a strong defense and running game.

839

[quote]mbdix wrote:
Russell Wilson, imo, is the perfect example in todays NFL of a player who gets glory being on a stacked team.[/quote]

Here we go again with the Russ Wilson hate. Thing is, it kinda reflects an unsophisticated understanding of the pro game. Take this pass play, for instance - NFL Football Highlights, Clips & Analysis | NFL.com

Amateurish viewers likely see a broken play that ends up in an unremarkable completion down the sideline.

Meanwhile, savvier viewers would note the pre-snap look (and what Wilson took from it) and that Wilson actually turned his back to the line of scrimmage (after the blitzing ILB helped free up the DE) before setting and throwing an absolute strike (yes, there was air under it but it’s still to the sideline, and this is the pro game where EVERYONE is FAST) to a WR who definitely wasn’t open when he threw it… but to a spot where it wouldn’t likely be intercepted either.

That is straight up elite-level QB’ing right there… though the majority likely missed it.

840

Last night was a great game. Gronk was on fire and probably scored an extra TD because of the Steeler’s defense miscommunications. Brady was masterful as expected. Glad he was able to control his emotions, going through this offseason must have been tough. Our defense was alright. Butler gave up some big plays to Brown, but I think he did his job pretty well in general for the first game against an elite WR. Disappointed in Tomlin though for insinuating the headset issues were the Patriot’s doing.