2015 NFL Off Season

Off Topic
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[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]mbdix wrote:

[quote]Aggv wrote:

[quote]mbdix wrote:
I believe the game moves slow to him. He is seeing things happen and reacting quicker than anyone else on the field. [/quote]

you have to be trolling, LOLLOLOLOL[/quote]

No dude, I am not trolling. I don’t think his physical speed makes the game slow for him, like it did for Vick in his prime, or speaking of prime, like it was for Primetime.

I am saying that when he recieves a visual stimulus he has a physical reaction, and makes adjustments quicker than everyone else on the field. Not in some superpower way, but in a way that is noticeable when you watch tape on him. Some people call it Jedi like plays or magic plays. It’s not either of those. It’s just that those players brain and body are reacting quicker than the people around them and it looks different.

Like when Doogie said when he watched Manziel play his freshman year that he thought he looked scared and the worse QB that he had ever seen. The reason why it looked like that to Doogie is because he doesn’t understand what he is seeing. (No offense Doogie) Manziel was the first freshman to ever win the heisman and he won the best QB in college award as well. Either that year or the next, I can’t remember.[/quote]

I have to say, if watched him in college and thought, this kid is reacting faster than every player on the field, that’s why he’s running outside the pocket to the sideline before throwing a jump ball to Evans with very little pressure, then I have to conclude that it is you who has no clue what he’s looking at. [/quote]

Maybe we aren’t talking about the same guy?

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[quote]mbdix wrote:
The reason why it looked like that to Doogie is because he doesn’t understand what he is seeing. (No offense Doogie) [/quote]

Sure. My dad was a football coach in Texas my entire life. My mom was Grant Teaff’s secretary. My mom shared a room with Gary Gaines’ wife while my little sister and Gaines’ daughter were being born. My sister used to babysit Drew Brees during the summers when I was playing for his grandfather and my dad was on his staff. I spent part of one of those summers throwing with Brees’ uncle, Marty Akins. I’ve been hunting or played golf with more college coaches than you could probably name. Admittedly, I still can’t throw for shit to this day, but I guarantee you I’ve got 10x the football background you do. And I know a scared little kid when I see one.

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[quote]doogie wrote:

[quote]mbdix wrote:
The reason why it looked like that to Doogie is because he doesn’t understand what he is seeing. (No offense Doogie) [/quote]

Sure. My dad was a football coach in Texas my entire life. My mom was Grant Teaff’s secretary. My mom shared a room with Gary Gaines’ wife while my little sister and Gaines’ daughter were being born. My sister used to babysit Drew Brees during the summers when I was playing for his grandfather and my dad was on his staff. I spent part of one of those summers throwing with Brees’ uncle, Marty Akins. I’ve been hunting or played golf with more college coaches than you could probably name. Admittedly, I still can’t throw for shit to this day, but I guarantee you I’ve got 10x the football background you do. And I know a scared little kid when I see one. [/quote]

I gave some time to see if you would want to come back and edit this post.

Do me a favor and read your post again, maybe even a couple of times. Try to read it as if you were some random guy on the internet. Or read it like I am the one who posted it. Then come back on here and tell me what you think.

If you do that, I will be more than happy to dive into it with you.

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Now I know that awards are not all that being a football player is about, but go ahead and take a look at this

College honors
Full-season awards and nominations
2012 Heisman Trophy winner (first freshman to win)
2012 Davey O?Brien National Quarterback Award winner (first freshman to win)
2012 Manning Award winner (first freshman to win)
2012 First-team All-American by:
◦ Associated Press
◦ Football Writers Association of America
◦ Walter Camp Football Foundation
◦ Sporting News
◦ ESPN
◦ CBS Sports
◦ Scout.com
◦ Sports Illustrated
2012 Sporting News College Football Player of the Year
2012 SEC Offensive Player of the Year
2012 SEC Freshman of the Year
2012 All-SEC First-Team Quarterback
2013 Cotton Bowl Classic ? Offensive MVP
2012 ESPN.com All-Bowl Team
2013 SEC Male Athlete of the Year
2013 Chick-fil-A Bowl ? Offensive MVP
Finalist, 2012 Maxwell Award
Finalist, 2012 Walter Camp Player of the Year
Finalist, 2013 Maxwell Award
Finalist, 2013 Walter Camp Player of the Year
Finalist, 2013 Heisman Trophy
Finalist, 2013 Davey O?Brien National Quarterback Award
Weekly awards
2-time Walter Camp National Offensive Player of the Week
3-time AT&T All-America Player of the Week
4-time SEC Offensive Player of the Week
9-time SEC Freshman of the Week
NCAA records and notes
FBS freshman record: rushing yards by a quarterback, season (1,410)
FBS freshman record: total offense, season (5,116)
10th-most single-season total offensive yards in NCAA FBS history.
Most games with 300 or more passing yards and 100+ rushing yards, career (4)
FBS record: First freshman (and fifth player ever) in FBS history with 3,000 passing yards and 1,000 rushing yards, season
FBS record: Rushing yards by a quarterback in a bowl game (229 yards)
Only the fourth player to have 20 passing TDs and 20 rushing TDs, season
Eclipsed the 7,000-yard barrier in total offense in his 19th career game, which is the fastest in NCAA FBS history by a four-year player.
Second freshman in FBS history to rush for 1,000 yards and pass for 2,000 yards
First freshman to win the Heisman Trophy
First freshman to win the Davey O?Brien National Quarterback Award
First freshman to win the Manning Award
SEC records and notes
Most yards total offense in a game (576, breaking Archie Manning?s 1969 record of 540 yards)
The first three places on the SEC total offense in a game
576 yards
562 yards against No. 1 Alabama
557 yards two weeks before the 576 yards
Most yards total offense, season (5,116, breaking Cam Newton?s 2010 record in two fewer games)
2nd-most yards total offense, season (4,873)
Most yards total offense, game average (383.3, breaking Tim Couch?s 1998 record, of 377.4 yards)
Highest yards per play average (50 plays minimum), game (10.71, against Arkansas on September 29, 2012, breaking Steve Tanneyhill?s record of 10.0 yards)
First SEC quarterback to pass for 3,000 yards and rush for 1,000 yards in one season
Second-most passing yards in a SEC single season, 4,114 passing yards
Tied for third-most passing touchdowns in an SEC single season, 37 touchdowns
Tied for second most rushing touchdowns in a Single Season
Tied for 8th most scoring in a single season
8th most passing yards in a single season
Texas A&M records and notes
Most total yards in a season with 5,116
Most yards passing yards in a game
The first three spots on the Texas A&M passing yards in a game
464 yards against No. 1 Alabama on September 14, 2013
454 yards against Auburn on October 19, 2013
453 yards against Arkansas on September 29, 2012
Most yards total offense in a game (576, breaking Archie Manning?s 1969 record of 540 yards)
The first 3 spots on the Texas A&M total offense in a game
576 yards
562 yards against #1 Alabama
557 yards two weeks before the 576 yards
In 10 games, Manziel had 4 of the top 10 games in total offense in Texas A&M history.
Logged 10 straight games with 300 or more total yards, 21 total games with 300+ yards.
Third Texas A&M quarterback to surpass 3,000 passing yards in a season.
First Texas A&M quarterback to have multiple 3,000-yard seasons.
Texas A&M career total touchdowns record with 94 touchdowns.
Texas A&M career total yards record with 9,989 yards.
Third Texas A&M quarterback to surpass 7,000 passing yards in a career.
Most passing yards in a single season.
Second Texas A&M quarterback to rush for 2,000 yards.
The most rushing touchdowns in a single season.
The most passing touchdowns in a single season.
2nd in career passing touchdowns.
2nd in career passing yards.
Tied for 12th in career rushing touchdowns.
15th in career rushing yards.

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Tebow won a bunch of awards, which included 2 national championship trophies and a heisman, and he cant play in the nfl either.

If the college game was even remotely comparable to the NFL Charlie Ward, Troy Smith, Chris Weinke, Matt Lienart, eric crouch, Jamarcus russell would have made it.

Colt McCoy with a drinking problem.

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Stop that video at 6:34 and you will see exactly what we are all talking about. That is a play where he showed that he doesn’t see the field at all as a QB. DB slips down in man coverage, no pressure and a WR wide open for a TD. He never looks to that side of the field and just takes off for no reason. That’s why he cant be an NFL QB. He has no field awareness and that TD run he managed would be a loss or a 5 yd gain at best.

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[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Stop that video at 6:34 and you will see exactly what we are all talking about. That is a play where he showed that he doesn’t see the field at all as a QB. DB slips down in man coverage, no pressure and a WR wide open for a TD. He never looks to that side of the field and just takes off for no reason. That’s why he cant be an NFL QB. He has no field awareness and that TD run he managed would be a loss or a 5 yd gain at best.[/quote]

Spot on.

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[quote]jbpick86 wrote:
Stop that video at 6:34 and you will see exactly what we are all talking about. That is a play where he showed that he doesn’t see the field at all as a QB. DB slips down in man coverage, no pressure and a WR wide open for a TD. He never looks to that side of the field and just takes off for no reason. That’s why he cant be an NFL QB. He has no field awareness and that TD run he managed would be a loss or a 5 yd gain at best.[/quote]

He started the play looking at that receiver, he was his first read, there was a backer between him and the slant, he went to his second read which was on the other side of the field. He noticed the 20 yards of green grass to that side and moved right and took off for 6.

Yes he could have gone through a few more reads after seeing the wide open field for a run, and got the reciever for a touchdown.

Part of Manziel’s game is running. If he sees a chance to make a long run he will take it. That can start to wear down the defense, when you are facing a QB that can beat you with his legs and arm.

To recap. He started the play looking at his x. There was a backer in the lane. He went to his second option y on the right side and saw 20+ yards of open field. He ran for a reason. He ran because he had an easy 1st down running and ended up getting 6

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I hope this works. Took a screen shot where you can see Manziel looking at his first read and backer in the lane where the receiver should come free. It’s not there move to your second read.

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In this screen shot you can see where he had gone to his second read and saw a very large amount of open space that would let him easily pick up a first down. He instead made reactions to the defense and took it into the endzone.

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In the second screen shot the corner in the top right is the only defender on Manziel’s outside. He is 20 yards away going in the opposite direction. On this play Manziel could have easily just taken an easy angle towards out of bounds past the first down marker without coming close to being touched.

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Also, on the second picture when Manziel decides to run, he is at the very least giving his team a fresh set of downs and putting them in the field goal range at the same time. You were not “spot on” in your analysis. You saw something that you thought you could bring up to somehow back up your misguided belief that Manziel sucks.

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In all fairness I can pick out missed reads from Peyton Manning that, due to his lack of foot speed and mobility result in a sack, INT, or incomplete pass. It’s pretty easy to cherry pick good or bad plays from a guys season. I don’t think Manziel is a complete QB, but neither are most of the other guys in the league, The real issue is whether or not Manziel can succeed in the NFL in an offense that doesn’t play to his strengths, without a true playmaker at WR, TE, or RB, and without an overpowering defense (giving him good field position).

The positives for Manziel would have to be O-line play, Thomas and Mack (if he’s healthy) are beasts and Erving (though he’s a rookie) and Bitonio are going to be just fine. The longer he has to create the better off he will be (no surprise there) and that O-Line should give him time. Remember, Mack went down in October so Manziel had a newb at center and a reshuffled O-Line for his 2 starts. After Mack went out the offense was just awful.

Manziel should beat out the 3 headed shit show of Lewis, McCown and Shaw if for no other reason than playing him at least gives the Browns a chance to showcase him for trades. Manziel is more than likely not going to be a top QB in the league, he may never even be a serviceable starter or back-up, but I will repeat that 2 games is not enough to judge a career on.

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[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
In all fairness I can pick out missed reads from Peyton Manning that, due to his lack of foot speed and mobility result in a sack, INT, or incomplete pass. It’s pretty easy to cherry pick good or bad plays from a guys season. I don’t think Manziel is a complete QB, but neither are most of the other guys in the league, The real issue is whether or not Manziel can succeed in the NFL in an offense that doesn’t play to his strengths, without a true playmaker at WR, TE, or RB, and without an overpowering defense (giving him good field position).

The positives for Manziel would have to be O-line play, Thomas and Mack (if he’s healthy) are beasts and Erving (though he’s a rookie) and Bitonio are going to be just fine. The longer he has to create the better off he will be (no surprise there) and that O-Line should give him time. Remember, Mack went down in October so Manziel had a newb at center and a reshuffled O-Line for his 2 starts. After Mack went out the offense was just awful.

Manziel should beat out the 3 headed shit show of Lewis, McCown and Shaw if for no other reason than playing him at least gives the Browns a chance to showcase him for trades. Manziel is more than likely not going to be a top QB in the league, he may never even be a serviceable starter or back-up, but I will repeat that 2 games is not enough to judge a career on.[/quote]

PonyWhisperer, would you agree that Luck is a complete Quarterback?

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[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
In all fairness I can pick out missed reads from Peyton Manning that, due to his lack of foot speed and mobility result in a sack, INT, or incomplete pass. It’s pretty easy to cherry pick good or bad plays from a guys season. I don’t think Manziel is a complete QB, but neither are most of the other guys in the league, The real issue is whether or not Manziel can succeed in the NFL in an offense that doesn’t play to his strengths, without a true playmaker at WR, TE, or RB, and without an overpowering defense (giving him good field position).

The positives for Manziel would have to be O-line play, Thomas and Mack (if he’s healthy) are beasts and Erving (though he’s a rookie) and Bitonio are going to be just fine. The longer he has to create the better off he will be (no surprise there) and that O-Line should give him time. Remember, Mack went down in October so Manziel had a newb at center and a reshuffled O-Line for his 2 starts. After Mack went out the offense was just awful.

Manziel should beat out the 3 headed shit show of Lewis, McCown and Shaw if for no other reason than playing him at least gives the Browns a chance to showcase him for trades. Manziel is more than likely not going to be a top QB in the league, he may never even be a serviceable starter or back-up, but I will repeat that 2 games is not enough to judge a career on.[/quote]

You can cherry pick any QB, but you don’t have to with Manziel. That is literally the first play where they looked down the field. He glanced at his first read, abandoned it in less than a second (I’ll admit I didn’t notice him even look that way) because at 6:34 his guy is wide open for a TD, locked on to another part of the field and without pressure he took off. That skittish way of reading plays is why he is bound to be a bust in the NFL unless he totally takes his game apart and reworks it from the ground up.

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[quote]mbdix wrote:

[quote]PonyWhisperer wrote:
In all fairness I can pick out missed reads from Peyton Manning that, due to his lack of foot speed and mobility result in a sack, INT, or incomplete pass. It’s pretty easy to cherry pick good or bad plays from a guys season. I don’t think Manziel is a complete QB, but neither are most of the other guys in the league, The real issue is whether or not Manziel can succeed in the NFL in an offense that doesn’t play to his strengths, without a true playmaker at WR, TE, or RB, and without an overpowering defense (giving him good field position).

The positives for Manziel would have to be O-line play, Thomas and Mack (if he’s healthy) are beasts and Erving (though he’s a rookie) and Bitonio are going to be just fine. The longer he has to create the better off he will be (no surprise there) and that O-Line should give him time. Remember, Mack went down in October so Manziel had a newb at center and a reshuffled O-Line for his 2 starts. After Mack went out the offense was just awful.

Manziel should beat out the 3 headed shit show of Lewis, McCown and Shaw if for no other reason than playing him at least gives the Browns a chance to showcase him for trades. Manziel is more than likely not going to be a top QB in the league, he may never even be a serviceable starter or back-up, but I will repeat that 2 games is not enough to judge a career on.[/quote]

PonyWhisperer, would you agree that Luck is a complete Quarterback?
[/quote]

I can agree with that. Luck and Rodgers may be the two most well rounded QB’s in the game today.

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[quote]mbdix wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
mbdix -

ok, no bullshit. What would have to happen for you to say, “ah shit, I was wrong about Manziel”?

Because if the only way you’ll be convinced that he’s a bust is if he starts 16 games for each of the 32 teams and then, and only then, will you admit he can’t make it in the NFL, then this is a silly conversation.

So, what’s the hurdle?[/quote]
Well the hurdle cant be to tall, JF can only jump so high[/quote]

He can dunk at 6 ft. A hurdle isn’t shit for Manziel

[/quote]

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Just wondering…is there anyone out there that isn’t a Cleveland fan or Manziel whore?

I’m a Cards fan and I’m wondering if a closet 49ers, Seahawks, or Rams fan might have the nutz to talk about their draft/OTA’s and the NFC West?

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[quote]silverblood wrote:
is there anyone out there that isn’t a Cleveland fan or Manziel whore?
[/quote]

4 options in this thread.

  1. swinging from manziels nuts
  2. explaining why that makes no sense
  3. the jets
  4. hating on the patriots