Who was the MVP in all of Jordan’s finals?
[quote]gregron wrote:
these conference finals have been so good (especially if the Magic can find a way to win tonight)
.greg.[/quote]
x2. The Magic/Celtics series is amazing, especially given how bad the first 2 games were.
[quote]drewh wrote:
Who was the MVP in all of Jordan’s finals?[/quote]
Jordan–hence why I want Kobe to win 3 without Shaq.
[quote]Dustin wrote:
[quote]LarryDavid wrote:
And I don’t have a problem with the technical calls or the increasingly rough play of Howard. I can’t be the only one who notices that the Celts need to shut the fuck up a little more. They scream at the refs after every call. They’re actually as bad as the Cav’s except that they scream for longer and really get in the ref’s faces for a minute or two. The ref’s probably decided it was time to keep them in check and let Perkins be an example- which was great because he was the worst offender. Message sent. [/quote]
-
Collectively the Celtics don’t complain to the refs anymore than the rest of the teams in the league. Lebron and Kobe, on their own are sometimes worse. Dirk does it too. I could sit here for an hour and list players that cry like pussies to refs.
-
The two techs on Perkins were BS, period. If the refs want to send a message, then they get with Van Gundy and Rivers before the game and lay down the law. They don’t determine the outcome of games by blowing their damn whistle for no reason. Perkins walked away from the official and still got “T’d” up. Now that call wasn’t going to effect the outcome of game 5. Orlando was going to win that regardless, but it might effect game 6.
[/quote]
I know this topic is old and greg and the others covered most of what I would have said anyway, but there are a couple more things.
The reason most don’t notice the Celtics whining and screaming at refs is because they almost never do it when they’ve been fouled [of they think they’ve been fouled]. It when they’ve had a foul called on them that you can see players scream and yell at the refs for longer than you see players from other teams. Guy’s who whine about being fouled can’t do it for long without missing play on the defensive end-- the refs can just ignore them and move on.
And there’s no need to warn the teams before the start of a game. It was only one team that was taking shit too far- the Celtics. They’re a pro team, they should be able to tell if they being far worse than the other teams without being warned.
And I’m not sure where you got the idea of Kobe being a whiner from. He’s actually one of the best superstar players as far as NOT whining so much goes.
[quote]LarryDavid wrote:
[quote]drewh wrote:
Who was the MVP in all of Jordan’s finals?[/quote]
Jordan–hence why I want Kobe to win 3 without Shaq. [/quote]
You didn’t get my point MJ has 6 rings and he was MVP each time. Kobe has only been finals mvp once. Even if Kobe wins 3 more he still doesn’t surpass Mike. PLus you have to take into account the retirement where MJ would have won another ring.
[quote]SSC wrote:
[quote]PB Andy wrote:
Damn.[/quote]
You’re not lying. Those three 3’s were intense.[/quote]
I don’t even watch basketball, but yesterday I straight up yelled when that last three banked in. I mean, ONE OF THOSE has to go in, it’s the NBA, lol.
^^hahahah seriously! I was watching at my buddies BBQ and half the guys there didnt like basketball but EVERYONE was yelling as those 3’s keep being thrown up there. It was an awesome finish to the game (especially as a Lakers fan)
.greg.
[quote]drewh wrote:
[quote]LarryDavid wrote:
[quote]drewh wrote:
Who was the MVP in all of Jordan’s finals?[/quote]
Jordan–hence why I want Kobe to win 3 without Shaq. [/quote]
You didn’t get my point MJ has 6 rings and he was MVP each time. Kobe has only been finals mvp once. Even if Kobe wins 3 more he still doesn’t surpass Mike. PLus you have to take into account the retirement where MJ would have won another ring. [/quote]
I think Kobe’s in the conversation seriously if he gets to 6 rings. If he gets 7 + rings (which is possible) then he’s really starting to make a case for GOAT. But that’s a ways off and definitely may not happen anyway. Either way, it’s fun (as a Kobe and Lakers fan) watching him vie for that supremacy even if he never makes it.
And as for MJ retiring in between his championship runs, I have thought about that what if scenario on many occasions. But that’s where it’s going to stay, a what if scenario. You can’t use that as part of a GOAT defense. What ifs are easy to conjure up and impossible to defend…
[quote]drewh wrote:
Did anyone here Joe Johnson, D wade and Lebron are meeting to discuss this offseason. I expect this offseason to be very big. I havn’t been this excited for an offseason in a while.[/quote]
Yeah and apparently Chris Bosh is meeting up with them as well. Amare is a free agent as well, so this summer is gonna be big.
[quote]LarryDavid wrote:
And there’s no need to warn the teams before the start of a game. It was only one team that was taking shit too far- the Celtics. They’re a pro team, they should be able to tell if they being far worse than the other teams without being warned.
[/quote]
This series has been physical/chippy from the start. To say the Celtics are instigating everything and Orlando is minding their “P’s and Q’s” is nonsense. One of the hardest fouls of the series (in what, game two?) was Howard rearranging Pierce’s face on an attempted layup.
I don’t care if some of you hate Boson, but let’s not pretend that Orlando isn’t playing along too.
[quote]
And I’m not sure where you got the idea of Kobe being a whiner from. He’s actually one of the best superstar players as far as NOT whining so much goes. [/quote]
I got the idea that he is a whiner from watching LA Laker games. Maybe not as bad as Lebron or Rasheed Wallace, but he still does it.
Ok so the Magic made it somewhat of a series but too little too late. Rematch of '08!!! with a different outcome this time
.greg.
Nate Robinson had himself a hell of a 2nd quarter, you could argue he saved the series for Boston by coming in and playing strong. If the Magic make a run after Rondo goes down… but nope, comes in and sinks a few big 3s to keep that lead up, played defense, I was impressed. Pierce and Allen took that shit over in the 2nd half sinking big shots every time Orlando looked to be closing the gap.
Time to see if the Lakers can close out Phoenix on the road.
^ That will be EXTREMELY important in preparing for Boston. But they seem to be on a pretty good roll, playing tough ball, but the rest will definitely do them some good.
[quote]LarryDavid wrote:
If Kobe wins at least 3 titles without Shaq [and he’s already got one and may get another this year] I won’t hesitate to say he’s as good as or better than Jordan on the court. There are certain things off the court that would probably give MJ the edge, but on the court you’d have to give it to Kobe.[/quote]
Well you might have a little bit of more debate than now and really start to closely analyze both mens’ abilities BUT the GOAT title won’t change hands. Jordan dominated the 90s ala the face of basketball. Kobe’s more of a entertainment package if you’re a basketball fan, he didnt/wont transcend basketball like Mr MJ did.
Rasheed Wallace: “Ball don’t lie.”
How the fuck is this mofo going to the Finals again with the possibility to win another title. One of the most ‘entertaining’ players out there for sure, if you can call him that…
[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
[quote]LarryDavid wrote:
If Kobe wins at least 3 titles without Shaq [and he’s already got one and may get another this year] I won’t hesitate to say he’s as good as or better than Jordan on the court. There are certain things off the court that would probably give MJ the edge, but on the court you’d have to give it to Kobe.[/quote]
Well you might have a little bit of more debate than now and really start to closely analyze both mens’ abilities BUT the GOAT title won’t change hands. Jordan dominated the 90s ala the face of basketball. Kobe’s more of a entertainment package if you’re a basketball fan, he didnt/wont transcend basketball like Mr MJ did.[/quote]
T and I talked about this along time ago. Kobe is basically the first black sheep superstar in NBA history. Think about all of the things that only he’s been able to do on the court, and he still gets disrespected by the casual fan on a non-stop basis. People act like he’s gotten lucky, or that he’s not as good as his numbers indicate. If anything, he’s better than his numbers indicate. He’s already cemented his status as the second best backcourt player in NBA history, and while I doubt he’ll ever take Jordan’s spot I do think it’s possible. He should have at least one more league MVP under his belt, and he should probably have another Finals MVP too. The reason he gets slept on or disrespected is the public doesn’t see him as a likeable guy. They think he comes across as arrogant, or just kind of an asshole. Everyone loved Jordan, but Jordan was no saint. I remember watching the Jordan Sportscentury documentary where Sam Smith of the Chicago Tribune talked about how much the media protected Jordan 'cause he was “the golden child”. It’s come to light that Jordan cheated on his old lady left and right, but no one really seems to think about that or bring it up. But, the first thing you hear people say when Kobe’s name comes up is “rapist”. No one calls Jordan “cheater” or “compulsive gambler”. They all call him “the greatest”. I think that is what will hold Kobe Bryant back from being considered the GOAT by the masses, no matter what happens on the court.
Oh yeah, I went to happy hour at a strip club yesterday with a buddy and ran into Antonio McDyess and Maurice Evans. I talked to 'em for a bit and they were both pretty cool.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
T and I talked about this along time ago. Kobe is basically the first black sheep superstar in NBA history. Think about all of the things that only he’s been able to do on the court, and he still gets disrespected by the casual fan on a non-stop basis. People act like he’s gotten lucky, or that he’s not as good as his numbers indicate. If anything, he’s better than his numbers indicate. He’s already cemented his status as the second best backcourt player in NBA history, and while I doubt he’ll ever take Jordan’s spot I do think it’s possible. He should have at least one more league MVP under his belt, and he should probably have another Finals MVP too. The reason he gets slept on or disrespected is the public doesn’t see him as a likeable guy. They think he comes across as arrogant, or just kind of an asshole. Everyone loved Jordan, but Jordan was no saint. I remember watching the Jordan Sportscentury documentary where Sam Smith of the Chicago Tribune talked about how much the media protected Jordan 'cause he was “the golden child”. It’s come to light that Jordan cheated on his old lady left and right, but no one really seems to think about that or bring it up. But, the first thing you hear people say when Kobe’s name comes up is “rapist”. No one calls Jordan “cheater” or “compulsive gambler”. They all call him “the greatest”. I think that is what will hold Kobe Bryant back from being considered the GOAT by the masses, no matter what happens on the court.[/quote]
Excellent post that is spot on. I believe with more championships under his belt and with time he won’t be viewed quite so critically as that black sheep anymore.
The difference with him and Jordan is that Jordan WAS more likeable publicly. He had that magnetic personality. Kobe simply doesn’t. It doesn’t make him any less great as a basketball player but a lot of people love to hate him. Yes, Jordan was also a tyrant with his teammates at times (like Kobe) but publicly he was magnetic. So that is why when Kobe was accused of rape he still has the title of “rapist” by so many when Jordan gets off of all his sins unscathed because he was so likeable.
Just look at Lebron. Yes, he’s a great basketball player as well but he also has that magnetic personality which draws people to him. Ironically I actually like Kobe’s no bullshit attitude and dislike Lebron’s “over-the-top look at me” antics but I’m in the minority here.
Regardless, I’ve never seen Kobe play better in the playoffs than right now. What he’s doing now is simply out the box. I didn’t even think he was this good. And it just makes it more amazing with the fact that so many were writing him off as “done” as little as a month and a half ago because of the injuries that were limiting him.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
[quote]LarryDavid wrote:
If Kobe wins at least 3 titles without Shaq [and he’s already got one and may get another this year] I won’t hesitate to say he’s as good as or better than Jordan on the court. There are certain things off the court that would probably give MJ the edge, but on the court you’d have to give it to Kobe.[/quote]
Well you might have a little bit of more debate than now and really start to closely analyze both mens’ abilities BUT the GOAT title won’t change hands. Jordan dominated the 90s ala the face of basketball. Kobe’s more of a entertainment package if you’re a basketball fan, he didnt/wont transcend basketball like Mr MJ did.[/quote]
T and I talked about this along time ago. Kobe is basically the first black sheep superstar in NBA history. Think about all of the things that only he’s been able to do on the court, and he still gets disrespected by the casual fan on a non-stop basis. People act like he’s gotten lucky, or that he’s not as good as his numbers indicate. If anything, he’s better than his numbers indicate. He’s already cemented his status as the second best backcourt player in NBA history, and while I doubt he’ll ever take Jordan’s spot I do think it’s possible. He should have at least one more league MVP under his belt, and he should probably have another Finals MVP too. The reason he gets slept on or disrespected is the public doesn’t see him as a likeable guy. They think he comes across as arrogant, or just kind of an asshole. Everyone loved Jordan, but Jordan was no saint. I remember watching the Jordan Sportscentury documentary where Sam Smith of the Chicago Tribune talked about how much the media protected Jordan 'cause he was “the golden child”. It’s come to light that Jordan cheated on his old lady left and right, but no one really seems to think about that or bring it up. But, the first thing you hear people say when Kobe’s name comes up is “rapist”. No one calls Jordan “cheater” or “compulsive gambler”. They all call him “the greatest”. I think that is what will hold Kobe Bryant back from being considered the GOAT by the masses, no matter what happens on the court.[/quote]
Kobe is my fav player but come on man... He is not even close to jordan. Jordan's career numbers are better than kobes in every single category. He also has 6 rings to kobe's 4. Nobody is dissing kobe by not picking him over jordan... Jordan is just better. The numbers don't lie. Defense and offense.
[quote]nomorewar wrote:
Kobe is my fav player but come on man… He is not even close to jordan. Jordan’s career numbers are better than kobes in every single category. He also has 6 rings to kobe’s 4. Nobody is dissing kobe by not picking him over jordan… Jordan is just better. The numbers don’t lie. Defense and offense.[/quote]
Dude, I wouldn’t say he’s “not even close”. And we’re talking about a man who has another 5 plus years to his career. His career is not over. Jordan’s is. Let’s see where Kobe is at 6 to 8 years from now. But to say he’s “not even close” is a little dramatic and untrue.