2010 NBA Playoffs

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821

[quote]randman wrote:
And although I’m a big believer in Bynum he just seems to injury prone. If the Lakers have the chance to trade for Chris Bosh in the offseason, they should do everything in their power to make that happen.[/quote]

They do. Bosh gave the Raptors GM a list of potential teams he’d like to be on. Raptors, Bulls, Knicks, Lakers, Miami. So unless he stays at Toronto it seems like he wants to play with either LeBron, Wade, or Kobe.

A Lakers team with Kobe, Bosh, Gasol and the rest would be frighteningly good.

822

I’ve heard the argument that the risk would be that it could mess up team chemistry. Also, Bosh would require more touches than Bynum does which could be problematic since the pecking order would still be Kobe, Gasol, and then Bosh. Still, when you have a chance to get another All Star and is the only logical choice in the league that could replace the center position that Bynum now occupies, how can you not do everything in your power to make that happen even when considering the risks?

I heard from Bosh that if Lebron stays in Cleveland that would make him more likely to go to the Lakers. Otherwise, if Lebron goes to New York/New Jersey, Bosh may be more inclined to join him there.

823

I don’t think the calls Stoudemaire got were ridiculous at all. From what I saw on the replays they were fair, even if it’s the playoffs. If he plays like that for one more game I can see the Suns getting another win at home.

Guys like him and Dwight Howard aren’t very skilled and can be stopped dead in their tracks if they’re kept further away from the net, but if they take advantage of their athleticism and get good passes from teammates, they can be a problem. The Suns are much better at giving Amare good looks than the Magic are with Dwight. Which is why I still have the Lakers beating the Celtics, even if the Celts have had a more dominant Conference Finals thus far- the Suns are a much better team than the Magic right now.

I still think it’s done in 5 or 6 games with the Lakers winning, though, much to my dismay.

824

[quote]randman wrote:
I’ve heard the argument that the risk would be that it could mess up team chemistry. Also, Bosh would require more touches than Bynum does which could be problematic since the pecking order would still be Kobe, Gasol, and then Bosh. Still, when you have a chance to get another All Star and is the only logical choice in the league that could replace the center position that Bynum now occupies, how can you not do everything in your power to make that happen even when considering the risks?

I heard from Bosh that if Lebron stays in Cleveland that would make him more likely to go to the Lakers. Otherwise, if Lebron goes to New York/New Jersey, Bosh may be more inclined to join him there.[/quote]

FWIW, Bosh doesn’t seem like the type of guy who’d make a big deal about being third on the list. It’s hard to judge character though, but I’m from Toronto and at least IMO he’s been pretty good despite the disappointment our teams have had each year. Not to mention going to a prestigious team that’s already capable of winning a title, would make even a troublesome player keep quiet.

825

[quote]LarryDavid wrote:
I don’t think the calls Stoudemaire got were ridiculous at all. From what I saw on the replays they were fair, even if it’s the playoffs. If he plays like that for one more game I can see the Suns getting another win at home.

Guys like him and Dwight Howard aren’t very skilled and can be stopped dead in their tracks if they’re kept further away from the net, but if they take advantage of their athleticism and get good passes from teammates, they can be a problem. The Suns are much better at giving Amare good looks than the Magic are with Dwight. Which is why I still have the Lakers beating the Celtics, even if the Celts have had a more dominant Conference Finals thus far- the Suns are a much better team than the Magic right now.

I still think it’s done in 5 or 6 games with the Lakers winning, though, much to my dismay. [/quote]
Amare is very skilled, especially compared to Dwight who is much larger.

826

[quote]drewh wrote:

Amare is very skilled, especially compared to Dwight who is much larger.[/quote]

Offensively, Dwight’s got less moves than Shaq. Real talk. So yeah, probably. But the fact that Amare can get better passes/looks is probably more important IMO. That and he doesn’t seem to look for the calls to go his way when he’s fouled, he actually plows through people [NO HOMO] and tries to get the basket.

For all the talk about Boston’s D, they’re playing against a team that’s got some glaring flaws, that doesn’t even seem to be trying anymore.

827

yeah Im not a “blame in on the refs” kind of guy but I think both teams were going to the basket and the home team was just getting a lot more calls in their favor (Which happens all the time. I’m sure it’ll happen in LA in game 5)

Bosh in LA would be sick but I think it’d be hard to get Kobe, Gasol and Bosh all the touches that they want/need. Thats the only problem I see unless they can stifle their ego’s a bit and be team players ya know?

.greg.

828

[quote]gregron wrote:

Bosh in LA would be sick but I think it’d be hard to get Kobe, Gasol and Bosh all the touches that they want/need. Thats the only problem I see unless they can stifle their ego’s a bit and be team players ya know?
[/quote]

Gasol would definitely cope with less touches, and Bosh too probably. The problem I see is if they get Bosh to do what Bynum does, and play on the court with Gasol, Bosh’ll have to play center–either that or come of the bench. He CAN play center but he’s a natural power foreword. So there may be a problem there, now that I think of it.

829

He would have to play center and he is capable of that position. A lot like Tim Duncan, he did quite well at center even though he’s more of a natural power forward. I actually think that’s the least of the risk of him coming over. I think he would fit in at center just fine.

830

I seriously doubt Bosh will go to the Lakers, basically because it would have to be through a sign and trade and the contracts would have to match up. Toronto would likely ask for Gasol in return, and we all know that isn’t happening. When we’re talking about free agency and potential destinations the thing we seem to be collectively forgetting is money.

Most of the guys we’re talking about {James, Bosh, Dirk, Stoudamire, Wade, etc…] are going for max or near max contracts. That basically means that NONE of those guys are going to play with another first tier player, 'cause there’s not enough money to share, and NONE of these dudes are gonna take a “paycut”. I’ve said for awhile now that James has never even considered Chicago, but even if he has what would that do to their future?

Rose will be a free agent in 2 years [I think] and he’ll be up for a max contract. Noah will be up for a big contract too, not max though. If you have James on your team how do you re-sign those guys? The answer is you don’t. I’m not sure of each teams cap situation, but I think Miami and Dallas are doing well so they might be able to get two big names for near top dollar, but if Nowitzki re-signs it’ll be just him.

Basically, James signs with NJ or signs a very short deal with the Cavs, Bosh, Dirk and Wade re-sign with their respective teams and Stoudamire’s heading south, probably to Miami.

831

[quote]LarryDavid wrote:

[quote]drewh wrote:

Amare is very skilled, especially compared to Dwight who is much larger.[/quote]

Offensively, Dwight’s got less moves than Shaq. Real talk. So yeah, probably. But the fact that Amare can get better passes/looks is probably more important IMO. That and he doesn’t seem to look for the calls to go his way when he’s fouled, he actually plows through people [NO HOMO] and tries to get the basket.

For all the talk about Boston’s D, they’re playing against a team that’s got some glaring flaws, that doesn’t even seem to be trying anymore. [/quote]

Nash hitting him as he cuts to the bucket probably accounts for a 3rd of his points, but Stoudamire’s no stiff. He’s got a little in-and-out move, decent face up, sticks jumpers from 17’ and in, a decent turn-around over the left shoulder, establishes position well and has an aggressive mentality. He’s a big, physical dude but he definitely has game.

832

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]LarryDavid wrote:

[quote]drewh wrote:

Amare is very skilled, especially compared to Dwight who is much larger.[/quote]

Offensively, Dwight’s got less moves than Shaq. Real talk. So yeah, probably. But the fact that Amare can get better passes/looks is probably more important IMO. That and he doesn’t seem to look for the calls to go his way when he’s fouled, he actually plows through people [NO HOMO] and tries to get the basket.

For all the talk about Boston’s D, they’re playing against a team that’s got some glaring flaws, that doesn’t even seem to be trying anymore. [/quote]

Nash hitting him as he cuts to the bucket probably accounts for a 3rd of his points, but Stoudamire’s no stiff. He’s got a little in-and-out move, decent face up, sticks jumpers from 17’ and in, a decent turn-around over the left shoulder, establishes position well and has an aggressive mentality. He’s a big, physical dude but he definitely has game. [/quote]

For a big he has some great touch off the glass too, reminds me very much of Duncan in that aspect. It felt like everyone of his +1’s last night were him rolling with the contact to get a decent shot off glass, instead of trying to float something at the rim.

833

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I seriously doubt Bosh will go to the Lakers, basically because it would have to be through a sign and trade and the contracts would have to match up. Toronto would likely ask for Gasol in return, and we all know that isn’t happening. When we’re talking about free agency and potential destinations the thing we seem to be collectively forgetting is money.

Most of the guys we’re talking about {James, Bosh, Dirk, Stoudamire, Wade, etc…] are going for max or near max contracts. That basically means that NONE of those guys are going to play with another first tier player, 'cause there’s not enough money to share, and NONE of these dudes are gonna take a “paycut”. I’ve said for awhile now that James has never even considered Chicago, but even if he has what would that do to their future?

Rose will be a free agent in 2 years [I think] and he’ll be up for a max contract. Noah will be up for a big contract too, not max though. If you have James on your team how do you re-sign those guys? The answer is you don’t. I’m not sure of each teams cap situation, but I think Miami and Dallas are doing well so they might be able to get two big names for near top dollar, but if Nowitzki re-signs it’ll be just him.

Basically, James signs with NJ or signs a very short deal with the Cavs, Bosh, Dirk and Wade re-sign with their respective teams and Stoudamire’s heading south, probably to Miami.[/quote]

I definitely hear what you’re saying but for these guys who are looking to sign for max contracts I dont understand why they wouldnt take that paycut and win some rings. Its not like they are in any way hurting for money so why not sign for a “measly” 5 million a year and team up with players who can win championships.

.greg.

834

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I seriously doubt Bosh will go to the Lakers, basically because it would have to be through a sign and trade and the contracts would have to match up. Toronto would likely ask for Gasol in return, and we all know that isn’t happening. When we’re talking about free agency and potential destinations the thing we seem to be collectively forgetting is money.

Most of the guys we’re talking about {James, Bosh, Dirk, Stoudamire, Wade, etc…] are going for max or near max contracts. That basically means that NONE of those guys are going to play with another first tier player, 'cause there’s not enough money to share, and NONE of these dudes are gonna take a “paycut”. I’ve said for awhile now that James has never even considered Chicago, but even if he has what would that do to their future?

Rose will be a free agent in 2 years [I think] and he’ll be up for a max contract. Noah will be up for a big contract too, not max though. If you have James on your team how do you re-sign those guys? The answer is you don’t. I’m not sure of each teams cap situation, but I think Miami and Dallas are doing well so they might be able to get two big names for near top dollar, but if Nowitzki re-signs it’ll be just him.

Basically, James signs with NJ or signs a very short deal with the Cavs, Bosh, Dirk and Wade re-sign with their respective teams and Stoudamire’s heading south, probably to Miami.[/quote]

Don’t agree with this assessment. Obviously there’s no way we would give up Gasol. I don’t think Toronto would even ask because they know that’s out of the question.

Why wouldn’t they take Bynum and possibly another player or two (i.e. Farmar, Vujacic, etc)? I’ve seen way more deals that were much more lopsided and illogical than this. I’m just not following you here.

The valid point your bring up is the max money issue. Now if Bosh wants to win a championship, the Lakers couldn’t necessarily give a max deal in a sign and trade but keep in mind that they are on the books this year for Bynum at $10 million and Vujacic at $5 million.

With the new salary cap, there aren’t any players that are going to be making much over $15 mil/year anyway (i.e. with a max 6 year deal) with the decreased NBA revenues and the new collective bargaining agreement that will be negotiated.

Is it probable that we will get Bosh? Not so confident of “probable”. Is it possible? Yes. Would the money issue be the main factor for making this unworkable? No, not necessarily. If Bosh is willing to take a little less than max and we know Jerry Buss is willing to spend somewhat over the salary cap (he has shown that even spending over the salary cap he typically still makes a profit because of all the playoff games the Lakers play) then this is a more plausible scenario then your post suggests.

And I don’t agree with your other point. New York, New Jersey, and Miami (to name three) can sign 2 max contract players at the same time. Yes, they have that much salary cap space.

835

Bosh for Bynum has been the steady rumor for awhile now. Who knows if Bynum’s latest knee situation has changed things.

But we can pretty safely say Bosh is leaving TOR, so we can also say a sign-and-trade will happen with one of those teams Bosh named.

836

^^Bosh for Bynum would be sweet. I like Bynum but he’s been too injury prone and at the worst times (playoffs) Having Bosh would mean serious championship runs for the next 3-5 years at least.

.greg.

837

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I seriously doubt Bosh will go to the Lakers, basically because it would have to be through a sign and trade and the contracts would have to match up. Toronto would likely ask for Gasol in return, and we all know that isn’t happening. When we’re talking about free agency and potential destinations the thing we seem to be collectively forgetting is money.

Most of the guys we’re talking about {James, Bosh, Dirk, Stoudamire, Wade, etc…] are going for max or near max contracts. That basically means that NONE of those guys are going to play with another first tier player, 'cause there’s not enough money to share, and NONE of these dudes are gonna take a “paycut”. I’ve said for awhile now that James has never even considered Chicago, but even if he has what would that do to their future?

Rose will be a free agent in 2 years [I think] and he’ll be up for a max contract. Noah will be up for a big contract too, not max though. If you have James on your team how do you re-sign those guys? The answer is you don’t. I’m not sure of each teams cap situation, but I think Miami and Dallas are doing well so they might be able to get two big names for near top dollar, but if Nowitzki re-signs it’ll be just him.

Basically, James signs with NJ or signs a very short deal with the Cavs, Bosh, Dirk and Wade re-sign with their respective teams and Stoudamire’s heading south, probably to Miami.[/quote]

I definitely hear what you’re saying but for these guys who are looking to sign for max contracts I dont understand why they wouldnt take that paycut and win some rings. Its not like they are in any way hurting for money so why not sign for a “measly” 5 million a year and team up with players who can win championships.

.greg.[/quote]

That generally doesn’t happen til later in players careers, and then half the time it doesn’t work out anyway [see Karl Malone and Gary Payton with the Lakers].

838

[quote]randman wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I seriously doubt Bosh will go to the Lakers, basically because it would have to be through a sign and trade and the contracts would have to match up. Toronto would likely ask for Gasol in return, and we all know that isn’t happening. When we’re talking about free agency and potential destinations the thing we seem to be collectively forgetting is money.

Most of the guys we’re talking about {James, Bosh, Dirk, Stoudamire, Wade, etc…] are going for max or near max contracts. That basically means that NONE of those guys are going to play with another first tier player, 'cause there’s not enough money to share, and NONE of these dudes are gonna take a “paycut”. I’ve said for awhile now that James has never even considered Chicago, but even if he has what would that do to their future?

Rose will be a free agent in 2 years [I think] and he’ll be up for a max contract. Noah will be up for a big contract too, not max though. If you have James on your team how do you re-sign those guys? The answer is you don’t. I’m not sure of each teams cap situation, but I think Miami and Dallas are doing well so they might be able to get two big names for near top dollar, but if Nowitzki re-signs it’ll be just him.

Basically, James signs with NJ or signs a very short deal with the Cavs, Bosh, Dirk and Wade re-sign with their respective teams and Stoudamire’s heading south, probably to Miami.[/quote]

Don’t agree with this assessment. Obviously there’s no way we would give up Gasol. I don’t think Toronto would even ask because they know that’s out of the question.

Why wouldn’t they take Bynum and possibly another player or two (i.e. Farmar, Vujacic, etc)? I’ve seen way more deals that were much more lopsided and illogical than this. I’m just not following you here.

The valid point your bring up is the max money issue. Now if Bosh wants to win a championship, the Lakers couldn’t necessarily give a max deal in a sign and trade but keep in mind that they are on the books this year for Bynum at $10 million and Vujacic at $5 million.

With the new salary cap, there aren’t any players that are going to be making much over $15 mil/year anyway (i.e. with a max 6 year deal) with the decreased NBA revenues and the new collective bargaining agreement that will be negotiated.

Is it probable that we will get Bosh? Not so confident of “probable”. Is it possible? Yes. Would the money issue be the main factor for making this unworkable? No, not necessarily. If Bosh is willing to take a little less than max and we know Jerry Buss is willing to spend somewhat over the salary cap (he has shown that even spending over the salary cap he typically still makes a profit because of all the playoff games the Lakers play) then this is a more plausible scenario then your post suggests.

And I don’t agree with your other point. New York, New Jersey, and Miami (to name three) can sign 2 max contract players at the same time. Yes, they have that much salary cap space.[/quote]

Of course Toronto would ask 'cause they’re giving up the franchise in return. Point blank, Toronto’s not giving away Bosh for Bynum and any combination of back-ups. Bynum’s a young, improving center but he’s also injury prone and hasn’t developed the way people expected. And, Bosh is not playing center. If it were to happen then Gasol would slide over. New York might sign someone, but they’re not gonna get any of the top prizes this year. I think Wade waits to see what Miami does but ultimately re-signs when they get Stoudamire or Bosh, James either signs with Jersey or signs a short [2-3 year] deal with the Cavs then signs with Jersey when the new stadium’s built, Dirk re-signs with the Mavs 'cause they can offer him the most money [and a no trade clause, something only Kobe has] and Bosh ends up out East through a sign and trade, maybe even to the Knicks. The Lakers getting Bosh makes no sense and could potentially fuck up team chemistry. Why make major changes to a title contending team? This isn’t exactly swappping Ariza for Artest.

839

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Of course Toronto would ask 'cause they’re giving up the franchise in return. Point blank, Toronto’s not giving away Bosh for Bynum and any combination of back-ups. Bynum’s a young, improving center but he’s also injury prone and hasn’t developed the way people expected. And, Bosh is not playing center. If it were to happen then Gasol would slide over. New York might sign someone, but they’re not gonna get any of the top prizes this year. I think Wade waits to see what Miami does but ultimately re-signs when they get Stoudamire or Bosh, James either signs with Jersey or signs a short [2-3 year] deal with the Cavs then signs with Jersey when the new stadium’s built, Dirk re-signs with the Mavs 'cause they can offer him the most money [and a no trade clause, something only Kobe has] and Bosh ends up out East through a sign and trade, maybe even to the Knicks. The Lakers getting Bosh makes no sense and could potentially fuck up team chemistry. Why make major changes to a title contending team? This isn’t exactly swappping Ariza for Artest.[/quote]

You say this with such “surety”. I’ve seen a lot more dumb decision making by a lot of other teams. I wouldn’t exactly say giving up Bosh for Bynum and other Lakers in a package deal is giving up the franchise for Toronto. This doesn’t even come close to being a dumb decision considering what we’ve seen transpire in the NBA over the last decade with regards to trades.

Obviously the biggest factor in this scenario would be “How badly does Bosh want to be in a championship system and win championships with the Lakers?” I can’t answer that question. I think the big thing for him is that since he’s still early in his career he’s probably going to go for max money more than any other factor. 99 times out of 100 that’s what young stars do so I’m still being realistic that although this deal is possible it’s definitely only that…possible.

As for Gasol sliding over to center as opposed to Bosh, yeah, that could work. I understand the team chemistry issue but again…To keep winning championships, sometimes you need to continue to take risks and make changes. I’m not convinced anymore that Bynum can stay healthy and is simply not giving the Lakers much right now.

I would definitely not compare getting Karl Malone and Gary Payton in 2004 as getting Bynum for Bosh. Malone/Payton were towards the end of their careers. Bosh is not. And Bosh has the aptitude and attitude that if he did come over he would know what he’s getting himself into that he wouldn’t be the first/second options and I think the chemistry issue may be a little overblown in this particular “what if” scenario.

And for the record, for those of you who don’t remember; Karl Malone had an ACL injury (think it was during the first game of the NBA finals or last game of Western Conference finals) that significantly altered that potential outcome series imo. I wouldn’t even say the Karl Malone/Gary Payton experiment failed. They got to the NBA finals with that team…drama and all. And again, if Karl Malone doesn’t have that ACL injury we could have seen a different outcome in that finals. Karl Malone was the most physical player exhibiting the most will power on that team at that point in time.

840

[quote]randman wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Of course Toronto would ask 'cause they’re giving up the franchise in return. Point blank, Toronto’s not giving away Bosh for Bynum and any combination of back-ups. Bynum’s a young, improving center but he’s also injury prone and hasn’t developed the way people expected. And, Bosh is not playing center. If it were to happen then Gasol would slide over. New York might sign someone, but they’re not gonna get any of the top prizes this year. I think Wade waits to see what Miami does but ultimately re-signs when they get Stoudamire or Bosh, James either signs with Jersey or signs a short [2-3 year] deal with the Cavs then signs with Jersey when the new stadium’s built, Dirk re-signs with the Mavs 'cause they can offer him the most money [and a no trade clause, something only Kobe has] and Bosh ends up out East through a sign and trade, maybe even to the Knicks. The Lakers getting Bosh makes no sense and could potentially fuck up team chemistry. Why make major changes to a title contending team? This isn’t exactly swappping Ariza for Artest.[/quote]

You say this with such “surety”. I’ve seen a lot more dumb decision making by a lot of other teams. I wouldn’t exactly say giving up Bosh for Bynum and other Lakers in a package deal is giving up the franchise for Toronto. This doesn’t even come close to being a dumb decision considering what we’ve seen transpire in the NBA over the last decade with regards to trades.

Obviously the biggest factor in this scenario would be “How badly does Bosh want to be in a championship system and win championships with the Lakers?” I can’t answer that question. I think the big thing for him is that since he’s still early in his career he’s probably going to go for max money more than any other factor. 99 times out of 100 that’s what young stars do so I’m still being realistic that although this deal is possible it’s definitely only that…possible.

As for Gasol sliding over to center as opposed to Bosh, yeah, that could work. I understand the team chemistry issue but again…To keep winning championships, sometimes you need to continue to take risks and make changes. I’m not convinced anymore that Bynum can stay healthy and is simply not giving the Lakers much right now.

I would definitely not compare getting Karl Malone and Gary Payton in 2004 as getting Bynum for Bosh. Malone/Payton were towards the end of their careers. Bosh is not. And Bosh has the aptitude and attitude that if he did come over he would know what he’s getting himself into that he wouldn’t be the first/second options and I think the chemistry issue may be a little overblown in this particular “what if” scenario.

And for the record, for those of you who don’t remember; Karl Malone had an ACL injury (think it was during the first game of the NBA finals or last game of Western Conference finals) that significantly altered that potential outcome series imo. I wouldn’t even say the Karl Malone/Gary Payton experiment failed. They got to the NBA finals with that team…drama and all. And again, if Karl Malone doesn’t have that ACL injury we could have seen a different outcome in that finals. Karl Malone was the most physical player exhibiting the most will power on that team at that point in time.
[/quote]

I didn’t compare Malone and Payton to getting Bosh? I pointed out that both Malone and Payton were older when they did it. That was actually the point of that post. I’m saying it with “surety” 'cause it’s not gonna happen. And, for the record, Bosh listed “LA” as a potential destination, not the Lakers. The Clippers have a lot of money to throw around. Your Lakercentricness is clouding your common sense man. Bosh is not going to be a Laker. NO WAY.