Lebron’s triple double last night was the most passive, low-impact triple double I’ve ever seen in my life. Sure, he got a triple double, but he also was the Cavs’ de-fanged, crestfallen, NON-LEADER. What a staggering loss of confidence on Lebron’s part - he looked like a little BOY out there. I felt SORRY for him.
Stats are one thing, but having IMPACT, you know, in the 4th QUARTER, when SHIT GETS REAL, yeah, thats much more valuable to me than having a 10 pt, 5 assist, 5 reb first quarter. Obviously, scoring and defense carry much more weight when TIME IS LIMITED. Possessions start skyrocketing in VALUE in the 4th - thats the real Land of Kings. Maybe Lebron should stick to doing to pre-game skits with his sack-less buddies (Mo Williams’ performance last night excluded.)
[quote]red04 wrote:
Let me make my point a little clearer since you are side stepping it. Yes or no question, do the Lakers win 00, 01, 02, without Shaq on the team?[/quote]
Red, u r getting more retarded. Could Jordan have won without Pippen? Magic without Kareem? It’s a stupid ass argument.[/quote]
Are you the retard because they wouldn’t have won.[/quote]
ok drewh, I know sometimes ur a little slow on the uptake so let me type this slowly. MJ also wouldn’t have won without Pippen, Magic without Kareem, Shaq without Kobe! Ur not really this dense r u? ;)[/quote]
and that was my point
[quote]randman wrote:
So what’s ur point? That it somehow diminishes Kobe’s first three championships but not Shaq’s or Jordan’s six? It does take talent around u but u also have to lead them. U can’t tell me LeGone didn’t have the talent this year but just couldn’t get it done again. Maybe NY with Bosh or something in 3 yrs from now. Someday maybe…[/quote]
im calling it next year he wins
[quote]DeterminedNate wrote:
Lebron’s triple double last night was the most passive, low-impact triple double I’ve ever seen in my life. Sure, he got a triple double, but he also was the Cavs’ de-fanged, crestfallen, NON-LEADER. What a staggering loss of confidence on Lebron’s part - he looked like a little BOY out there. I felt SORRY for him.
Stats are one thing, but having IMPACT, you know, in the 4th QUARTER, when SHIT GETS REAL, yeah, thats much more valuable to me than having a 10 pt, 5 assist, 5 reb first quarter. Obviously, scoring and defense carry much more weight when TIME IS LIMITED. Possessions start skyrocketing in VALUE in the 4th - thats the real Land of Kings. Maybe Lebron should stick to doing to pre-game skits with his sack-less buddies (Mo Williams’ performance last night excluded.)
la’s not winning shit, just keep watching
Cavs’ meltdown is most bitter heartache of all for Cleveland fans
The clock ticks down – 56 seconds … 55 seconds … 54 seconds – and Mike Brown waves his arms, and his players just stand there. They just bleeping stand there. You know they’re not going to win. I know they’re not going to win. Boston is beating Cleveland by nine, and that’s too much. There are no miracles left, not for this disappointing Cleveland team, not for this wooden version of LeBron James. They are not going to win, not tonight. I know that, everybody knows that. But they just stand there. They just bleeping stand there.
[quote]red04 wrote:
Let me make my point a little clearer since you are side stepping it. Yes or no question, do the Lakers win 00, 01, 02, without Shaq on the team?[/quote]
Red, u r getting more retarded. Could Jordan have won without Pippen? Magic without Kareem? It’s a stupid ass argument.[/quote]
Are you the retard because they wouldn’t have won.[/quote]
ok drewh, I know sometimes ur a little slow on the uptake so let me type this slowly. MJ also wouldn’t have won without Pippen, Magic without Kareem, Shaq without Kobe! Ur not really this dense r u? ;)[/quote]
and that was my point [/quote]
ok, Kobe wouldn’t have probably won without Shaq the first three championships. Ok, so? Is there some mysterious meaning we’re supposed to conclude for this? What’s the point? We know Jordan probably wouldn’t have won without Pippen. And, what? What is ur point?
That u need other talent around you? Ok, not much of a news flash there. So again, what’s your point? That Lebron didn’t have the talent around him? Bull crap. He did. And he couldn’t even get to the Eastern Conference finals with his team sporting the best record in the league. He is going backwards in his career and is getting a lot of criticism for this and rightly so. You still have a huge influence in basketball to will the talent around you to win and he couldn’t pull it off. It comes with the territory when ur the self proclaimed “King”.
[quote]drewh wrote:
my point is everyone is coming down way too hard on lebron when they expect him to do something other greats couldn’t[/quote]
How do you not get this? Sometimes I think you’re either trolling or mentally handicapped. It’s not that he couldn’t win. It’s that he’s been given everything he asked for by management, still couldn’t win and didn’t even look like he cared over half the time out there. It’s like he was playing to get numbers, not win ball games. This is the stage in the greats career where they make a statement as to what they are.
He did make a statement, but it was the complete opposite of what the City of Cleveland had hoped for. And now, it looks like he’s gonna run away and go to a bigger market so he can focus more on building his brand instead of winning ball games.
[quote]drewh wrote:
my point is everyone is coming down way too hard on lebron when they expect him to do something other greats couldn’t[/quote]
I’m with whiteflash, what is up with ur reading comprehension? The point is other greats have pulled it off with good talent around them, Lebron couldn’t and hasn’t; at least as of yet. You could try arguing that he didn’t have talent around him but that would be an argument in futility.
Analyst after analyst this year has written that the Cleveland management did their job this year surrounding him with talent; do ur own google search if u want, I’m not planting the articles here for u.
Will he eventually win one? Quite posssibly. If and when? Who knows. But until he does he can’t be even considered as part of the all time greats because in this club u r measured in the number of championships u win. U can try arguing that’s not fair all day but that’s the way it is and should be cuz in basketball an individual superstar does have a LOT of influence on winning a championship.
So everyone has to stop making excuses for him. As of now, to even mention him in the same company as Magic, Bird, Jordan, Shaq, Duncan, and Kobe is a freaking joke. There’s a facebook group I just joined last night whose title reads '“I have as many championships as Lebron James”. Hahahaha!!!
This isn’t baseball, where a superstar needs a large and talented supporting cast. It’s hoops, and if you’re the best player in the game, you’re supposed to win a championship. LeBron’s only 25 and hardly over the hill. But this year it was there for him.
It’s not even that he and the Cavs lost, but the way they lost. After handing the Celtics the worst loss they’d ever experienced on their home court, the Cavs didn’t win another game. Game 5 was the worst loss in Cleveland’s playoff history. Game 6 was an exercise in futility.
[quote]drewh wrote:
my point is everyone is coming down way too hard on lebron when they expect him to do something other greats couldn’t[/quote]
and I don’t agree with u that everyone is coming down way too hard on him. Lebron brought this on by calling himself the King, bein overly celebratory durig every regular season win and disrespecting opponents, being a sore loser all too often (at least last night he wasn’t), talkin about himself in the third person way too often and helping build up hype on his pending free agency and promoting his brand as the great one without being able to deliver when it counted.
Oh no drewh, he’s getting exactly the criticism he deserves. Again, u neve r saw Jordan or Kobe carry on with the freaking ridiculous antics that Lebron James has perpetuated for far too long without really delivering anything substantive in the post season. Lebron’s brand right mow to me is more of a facade. He deserves everything he is getting in the media and from basketball fans.
Are you serious? MJ was known as a huge dick to his teammates Kobe’s biggest problem has been his intensity. Lebron is lighthearted and a better teammate than either MJ or Kobe.
Drewh, that’s why Kobe and Jordan won all those championships. They wanted to be respected more than liked. They would get in teammates faces when they weren’t playing well. They were accused of being dicks, in a lot of cases they were dicks but they were and are respected leaders and they knew how to win.
I would much rather have an intense leader on my team that knows how to win and is accused of being a dick much more than a guy who is a walking party and every one likes him but can’t lead his team to victory.
Being an effective leader and being well liked don’t always go hand in hand. Lebron is more interested in his close friends and marketing buddies and that’s who he called his team in the press concference last night when asked about his plans for the summer instead of worrying about his real teammates in the locker room and worrying about them and deferring all questions about free agency to a more appropriate time.
Lebron has a lot to learn with regards to what leadership is really about. I’d rather be respected than liked. And that’s what makes a true champion. Something Lebron hasn’t learned yet and this is why he’s not going to be considered as one of he all time greats until or if he does.
It’s one thing to say that Lebron doesn’t have a championship, and therefore can’t be counted as an all time great. It’s another thing to say that he should be disliked because of who he is as a person or what he did to promote himself. HE’S TRYING TO MAKE MONEY. If you’re against him for that, then say so.
As for him being a dick, every professional athlete is a sore loser and disrespectful to their opponents. You can’t reach a high level in anything without taking it personally. Referring himself in the third person? WTF? On the other hand, did he suck this series compared to other ‘superstars’? Yes.
Talk about how badly he played; don’t bring in other bullshit that anyone in his position would do. The only reason Kobe didn’t have the media circus fanfare BS is because of the rape incident that just derailed his image in the media.
If Lebron didn’t have the media fanfare, someone else would. Lebron just had the best record and individual stats, ergo, this year’s chosen one. If he has a shitty season next year, it might be Dwight. Or Wade. Or Brandon Jennings. Who gives a shit. Getting riled over the media is useless.
I’m saying I personally don’t like him. that’s just me. I still think he has misplaced priorities as does others on this thread. He seems much more interested in building his brand as opposed to actually putting his focus on winning playoff series and championships which ironically will build his stupid brand more than anything else would.
This criticism isn’t just comin from me. Read the various links to other analysts on this thread. They are all saying the same thing.
He has not learned what real leadership is all about yet and won’t win a championship until he does. Right now I view him as a precocious spoiled child where everything has been given to him on a silver platter. He hasn’t had to struggle for anything and now that he is he’s shrinking from the pressure and criticism. I don’t give a flip how likeable or affable he is.
To me he is just annoying and believes he is God’s gift to us basketball fans. He seems to like the smell of his own shit.
[quote]randman wrote:
I’m saying I personally don’t like him. that’s just me. I still think he has misplaced priorities as does others on this thread. He seems much more interested in building his brand as opposed to actually putting his focus on winning playoff series and championships which ironically will build his stupid brand more than anything else would.
This criticism isn’t just comin from me. Read the various links to other analysts on this thread. They are all saying the same thing.
He has not learned what real leadership is all about yet and won’t win a championship until he does. Right now I view him as a precocious spoiled child where everything has been given to him on a silver platter. He hasn’t had to struggle for anything and now that he is he’s shrinking from the pressure and criticism. I don’t give a flip how likeable or affable he is.
To me he is just annoying and believes he is God’s gift to us basketball fans. He seems to like the smell of his own shit.[/quote]
Yeah but how much is leadership already internally generated and how much is photosynthesized from a third party like a coach. Kobe has had Phil his entire career (well most, when he started and now) and LeBron hasn’t really had that premier influence.
His premier influences have been Warren Buffet and Jay-Z so far since starting his basketball career. Maybe its just being hopeful and snooping around for something but can you imagine a LeBron led team captained by a Phil Jackson. You can’t argue against the potential there.
[quote]randman wrote:
I’m saying I personally don’t like him. that’s just me. I still think he has misplaced priorities as does others on this thread. He seems much more interested in building his brand as opposed to actually putting his focus on winning playoff series and championships which ironically will build his stupid brand more than anything else would.
This criticism isn’t just comin from me. Read the various links to other analysts on this thread. They are all saying the same thing.
He has not learned what real leadership is all about yet and won’t win a championship until he does. Right now I view him as a precocious spoiled child where everything has been given to him on a silver platter. He hasn’t had to struggle for anything and now that he is he’s shrinking from the pressure and criticism. I don’t give a flip how likeable or affable he is.
To me he is just annoying and believes he is God’s gift to us basketball fans. He seems to like the smell of his own shit.[/quote]
Yeah but how much is leadership already internally generated and how much is photosynthesized from a third party like a coach. Kobe has had Phil his entire career (well most, when he started and now) and LeBron hasn’t really had that premier influence.
His premier influences have been Warren Buffet and Jay-Z so far since starting his basketball career. Maybe its just being hopeful and snooping around for something but can you imagine a LeBron led team captained by a Phil Jackson. You can’t argue against the potential there.
[/quote]
??? Bryant started with Del Harris, then had Rambis, then someone else I think, then Jackson, then Rudy T [Clutch City fool!!!] then Jackson again. He had at least 2 or 3 coaches before Jackson was even in the picture. C’mon man, if you don’t know off the top of your head at least do a little research.
