2010 NBA Playoffs

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461

[quote]drewh wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:
hahahah this kobe vs lebron debate is so dumb. Just like the Kobe vs MJ debate… Kobe is Kobe, MJ is MJ and Lebron is Lebron… Let the players play their game. Jordans the GOAT cause he did what he did first. No one can take that from him because he’s MJ. Kobe’s game and Lebrons game are completely different so how can you compare them.

Kobe’s got the finesse, craftyness (not a real world but you know) and he’s got the championship experience/desire to make it happen.

Lebron is legit. No one else in the league has the physical tools/skills he has. Dudes a beast. He doesnt have what Kobe has but he hasnt been around the league as long as kobe has. He’ll learn, grow and mature and win some rings eventually but just not this year Im afraid.

Either way its gonna be a rematch of last years finals with probably the same end result.

.greg.[/quote]
qft[/quote]

dont be a “hater” Drewh… Lebron is no Kobe Bryant just like Kobe is no MJ… how can you argue with that? I gave lebron his “props” mayne I’m just saying until he starts winning rings he cant be mentioned in the same discussion as MJ, Magic, Bird, Kobe, Russel, Wilt, Shaq… the “greats”

.greg.

462

^qft Mayne

463

i ain’t hatin, qft means quoted for truth, I agree with you. But this year this season Lebron is better than Kobe and he was last season too an probably will be for years to come. Flash and Randman disagree and can’t accept the Lebron era.

464

ohhh hahahaa my bad i thought it was “quit fucking talking” lol… Yeah I agree that as a single player being able to create (by driving) shots, transition defense (no ones been better than lebron this season… not even close) and doing those type of things lebron was better than Kobe.

He’s younger and a way better “athlete” than Kobe is at this point in his career. Kobe isnt a high flyer anymore. He’s not driving through the lane and just dunking on whoevers down there. He’s developed a much more all around game than Lebron has and gets his shots from other spots on the floor.

Also I think Kobe has just learned not to get discouraged (which it looked like lebron was in that last game) and Kobe has become more of a facilitator this year and its obviously worked out quite well for them at this point. Kobe just has that “it” factor. Lebron hasnt found a way to win a ring yet but once he does and realizes what it takes then Lebron will also have “it”

Sorry about the mix up now I know what QFT really means.

.greg.

465

also all of this “King James” talk is such bullshit. How can you have a nickname of King when you aren’t sitting in the throne (NBA Championship)??? I think its a little ridiculous even though I think its a way tighter nickname than “black mamba” or “superman” (which half the players in the NBA have apparently)

They should put the King James talk on the back burner till he wins a ring… then I think Lebron will be on the next US Dollar or Coin… they might even add his face to Mount Rushmore.

.greg.

466

[quote]drewh wrote:
i ain’t hatin, qft means quoted for truth, I agree with you. But this year this season Lebron is better than Kobe and he was last season too an probably will be for years to come. Flash and Randman disagree and can’t accept the Lebron era. [/quote]

yes, Lebron is the “better regular season” player. Some day he may figure out what it takes to win a championship. Hahaha.

467

[quote]gregron wrote:
hahahah this kobe vs lebron debate is so dumb. Just like the Kobe vs MJ debate… Kobe is Kobe, MJ is MJ and Lebron is Lebron… Let the players play their game. Jordans the GOAT cause he did what he did first. No one can take that from him because he’s MJ. Kobe’s game and Lebrons game are completely different so how can you compare them.

Kobe’s got the finesse, craftyness (not a real world but you know) and he’s got the championship experience/desire to make it happen.

Lebron is legit. No one else in the league has the physical tools/skills he has. Dudes a beast. He doesnt have what Kobe has but he hasnt been around the league as long as kobe has. He’ll learn, grow and mature and win some rings eventually but just not this year Im afraid.

Either way its gonna be a rematch of last years finals with probably the same end result.

.greg.[/quote]

Not personally finding fault with what you wrote, just saying it drives me bananas when “finesse” or “craftiness” are used to describe Bryants game. He’s not the dunking force he once was and injuries and age have robbed some of his explosiveness, but he’s not like some old man at the local ‘Y’ stepping on feet or 'bowing ribcages to gain an edge. He’s still capeable of dunking on someone. He’s just a lot more concerned about conservation now.

468

I know, he has just strung together five straight 30 + point games shooting over 50% fg and the man is over the hill. What the he’ll r u guys watching?

469

[quote]gregron wrote:
also all of this “King James” talk is such bullshit. How can you have a nickname of King when you aren’t sitting in the throne (NBA Championship)??? I think its a little ridiculous even though I think its a way tighter nickname than “black mamba” or “superman” (which half the players in the NBA have apparently)

They should put the King James talk on the back burner till he wins a ring… then I think Lebron will be on the next US Dollar or Coin… they might even add his face to Mount Rushmore.

.greg.
[/quote]

That goes back to what I wrote about James being handed everything and not having to work for shit. Skip Bayless is a whiney homo [not that there’s anything wrong with that] who gets butthurt over the silliest stuff, but it is funny when he calls him “Prince James”.

Even though I’m clearly not the biggest James fan I still expect him to have a big game. And, I still expect that Cavs to lose. I will say that if they can win tonight I think they can ride a momentum high well into the next series.

470

[quote]randman wrote:

yes, Lebron is the “better regular season” player. Some day he may figure out what it takes to win a championship. Hahaha.[/quote]

Jordan didn’t learn “it” until his 7th season(LeBron is in his now), age 29(I think? might’ve been 28). Kobe didn’t learn “it” until… what was last year his 13th season? Don’t even tell me the first 3 count, sure he stepped up in some games when Shaq went out with foul trouble, but so did Paxton/Pippen/Kukoc when Jordan needed a little assistance.

I’m not saying LeBron deserves to be “in the discussion,” because obviously he has no rings. But people hold that against him like their icons were better than him at this stage. There needs to be a give and take, but the ‘old guard’ has no give, shit even his rookie year there were basketball fans getting at him, “couldn’t carry them to the playoffs, obviously not the god we expected.”

Haters on both side gets old, howabout people just respect game and stop caring so much about the uninformed media, because as you’ve pointed out plenty of times, there are informed people that are level headed and speak about the ‘comparison’ properly.

You cite these people, and then go off on tangents about how he’s overhyped, AFTER YOU JUST CITED RESPECTED PLAYERS/MEDIA MEMBERS THAT SAY OTHERWISE. How is that overhyped? Only idiots give a fuck what local beat writers say, or what Stu Scott says on a SportsCenter highlight to get ratings. You guys aren’t dumb enough to fall for that shit, so why do you come here and use it as the fuel for the argument.

Get the fuck over it. Lebron is an AMAZING(yes) player, and will be for years to come. Because technology is improving and skewing audiences younger, people that don’t know Jordan’s legacy might get more attached to him than optimal, and you act like that makes it true, while you simultaneously forget to ever mention Oscar and Russell(until your most recent post) because of the EXACT SAME AGE RELATIONSHIP.

It’s honestly getting retarded, like 3 people on the thread praised LeBron and you guys had to come to Kobe’s rescue like his basketball legacy was at stake, when all they said(at first) was “LeBron is a better player now” which is not an unjustifiable comment(it’s neither true nor false, it’s clearly debatable, and there is a fence people reside on both sides of).

471

Now with that wall of text done with, I actually think the Cavs will lose tonight, regardless of any performance LeBron puts up. The Celtics didn’t even sound like a team that won game 5 afterwards, they were already concentrating on the fact that they don’t want game 7 to exist, and they look every bit like the team that pushed Orlando to 7 last year, and won a ring in 08.

I will obviously still be pulling for Cleveland to bring it back home, but I just don’t see it, I haven’t been seeing the same team I got to watch for 68 games(last 4 don’t count), some other squad is out on that court this series(barring about 30 minutes of game 1 and 3 combined).

472

Red, did you honestly just compare Kobe Bryant with John Paxson, Scottie Pippen and/or Toney Kukoc? Your arguement is pretty much shot after that. Bryant didn’t “step up” during those runs. There was at least one of those 3-peat finals he could’ve/should’ve been MVP. You are really doing Bryant a disservice with the way you talk about him.

473

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
I’ll cosign on what Rand said and add that I think one of James’ biggest problems is that he never had to work for anything, it’s always just been handed to him. Best player in his class since early highschool, hummers in highschool, outlandish hyperbole dripping off of everything he did/does/will do, first pick in the draft, huge endorsement deals before ever playing a game, etc… Jordan had to work for everything he got.

Same with Bryant. Jordan was projected as a good, but not overwhelming offensive player by the guy who drafted him, then was criticized for scoring too much, then was told he’d never win as a scorer, etc… Kobe air balled 3 3’s in his final game as a rook. He was the second guy to make the preps-to-pros jump in the modern era, and the first back court player to ever do it.

He was considered too skinny, too flashy, not enough substance, can’t help a team win, can’t win on his own, ball hog, etc… And you know what Jordan and Bryant have in common aside from all of that? They wanted “it”. They worked their asses off to erase all of those criricisms and questions about their games, and they worked their way to the top without a fucking handout.

I’m not saying that they weren’t helped on the way, but the accolades came after the success. James expects everything to be given to him, and when it isn’t he acts like a spoiled brat. I really don’t care what happens in his career from this point, 'cause he’s shown what he’s really about.[/quote]

very good point… He’s never faced any adversity so thats why he’s cracking. After getting your ass kissed all your life and then finally stopping, that must be very hard for him.

474

People act like this is Lebron’s first rodeo, he’s been to the finals he just had a bad game. He literally took a shitty team to the finals by himself and beat the Pistons pretty much by himself. (who else can say that).

475

Red,

You just lost any credibility in your post with this "Jordan didn’t learn “it” until his 7th season(LeBron is in his now), age 29(I think? might’ve been 28). Kobe didn’t learn “it” until… what was last year his 13th season? Don’t even tell me the first 3 count, sure he stepped up in some games when Shaq went out with foul trouble, but so did Paxton/Pippen/Kukoc when Jordan needed a little assistance. "

kobe just learned “it” in his 13th season is the most retarded thing you’ve wrote yet. Nothing else deserves a response. Yep Kobe belongs with Paxton, Pippen and Kukoc. And I’m supposed to consider any of your points valid after a ridiculous assertion suh as this one? This is the stupidest thing you have written by far.

476

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:
hahahah this kobe vs lebron debate is so dumb. Just like the Kobe vs MJ debate… Kobe is Kobe, MJ is MJ and Lebron is Lebron… Let the players play their game. Jordans the GOAT cause he did what he did first. No one can take that from him because he’s MJ. Kobe’s game and Lebrons game are completely different so how can you compare them.

Kobe’s got the finesse, craftyness (not a real world but you know) and he’s got the championship experience/desire to make it happen.

Lebron is legit. No one else in the league has the physical tools/skills he has. Dudes a beast. He doesnt have what Kobe has but he hasnt been around the league as long as kobe has. He’ll learn, grow and mature and win some rings eventually but just not this year Im afraid.

Either way its gonna be a rematch of last years finals with probably the same end result.

.greg.[/quote]

Not personally finding fault with what you wrote, just saying it drives me bananas when “finesse” or “craftiness” are used to describe Bryants game.

He’s not the dunking force he once was and injuries and age have robbed some of his explosiveness, but he’s not like some old man at the local ‘Y’ stepping on feet or 'bowing ribcages to gain an edge. He’s still capeable of dunking on someone. He’s just a lot more concerned about conservation now.[/quote]

I’m not saying Kobe is an old man by any standards. I said he definitly isn the same explosive player he was but after 13 long seasons in the league thats gonna happen. My point was that Kobe has got a much more well rounded game than lebron.

He’s developed these other tools for his tool box and uses them. Kobe still dunks on people but he knows when to pick and choose driving the lane hard and getting bodied or just pulling up and hitting a little jumper.

for the record I’m born and raised in So Cal and am a diehard Lakers fan. There are a lot of Kobe haters out there but when its all said and done Kobe will go down as one of the best of all time. We should just be happy we got to see him play in the prime of his career and appreciate it.

.greg.

477

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Red, did you honestly just compare Kobe Bryant with John Paxson, Scottie Pippen and/or Toney Kukoc? Your arguement is pretty much shot after that. Bryant didn’t “step up” during those runs. There was at least one of those 3-peat finals he could’ve/should’ve been MVP. You are really doing Bryant a disservice with the way you talk about him.[/quote]

I could see how it came off like that, but no I do have more respect for Kobe than that, but he CLEARLY wasn’t the ‘Jordan’ of those Lakers teams. As a unit(which isn’t the fairest way to compare it) I think it works, that Pippen/Paxson/Kukoc were there to step it up big with Jordan out(they still almost made the finals in 94, I’m not sure if Paxson was still on the team at that point though).

And if you think the argument is shot after that you just didn’t bother reading because that wasn’t really ‘my argument.’ Kobe ‘shouldn’t/couldn’t’ have been the MVP in any of those, without Shaq in the lane that team isn’t ANYWHERE NEAR THE FUCKING NBA FINALS, so fuck off with that please, unless you are ready to give LeBron the same type of credit FOR CARRYING THE TEAM ON HIS FUCKING BACK ALONE, WITH HELP IN 1 SINGLE GAME FROM GIBSON, in 06.

That’s what I keep saying. You are so quick to discredit what LeBron has done, in what is clearly the stepping stones to winning a title(the same stepping stones Kobe learned in post-Shaq LA, 'carry team doesn’t work, forcing team to be part of action doesn’t work, picking spots and putting all together: bingo we got rings baby[2 7 footers doesn’t hurt]).

478

Again, the Kobe haters say it’s all his team mates when they win and he’s a ball hog when they suck. Red, your complete dismissal of Kobe during those first three championships is astounding to me.

That’s like sayin it was all Magic Johnson and Kareem was just a supporting player. You actually had some good posts earlier in this thread and now they’re getting dramatic, entirely inaccurate and dismissive. It’s getting old…

479

I’d kind of like to see the Celtics pull it out and make it to the finals so the Lake Show could get some revenge from two years ago… But Kobe vs Lebron would be a good finals.

.greg.

480

As a matter of fact Kobe was so good in the 2001 season that Bill Simmons believe he should have won the MVP that year. Yes, he was that good. So you’re dismissive posting about Kobe’s impact during this first three championships is laughable.

The funny thing is that with most people this was completely put to bed especially when he did it again last year yet here you are still tryin to pull this card to make your Lechoke boy look wonderful and Kobe look like Kukoc.