2010 NBA Playoffs

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:

I’ve heard Mark jackson talk very profoundly of Kobe. If he says hes better than MJ then w/e its just his opinion. One person. Whats what? come to grip that Kobe’s the best scorer in NBA history? Yeah I said he very likely might be. However the only reason you’re putting him in that category of most prolific in scoring is because of the stuff he pulled off when he was losing. Again no disrespect but theres no way you’re scoring 81 points if you have a Gasol/Shaq/Pippen/whoever thats good on your team.[/quote]

only you could put a negative spin on a scoring performance (the 81 pt game) that was the most remarkable thing I’ve ever seen done kn a basketball court. U call him a ball hog. Did u watch that game? I did. He had such a crap team and they were down by like 20 points. That Laket team needed him to score all of those points to win the game.

You’re so obviously a hater and so biased in ur commentary I don’t take anything u write seriously. Of course he doesn’t need to score those types of points now cuz he does have Gasol, Bynum, et al. Thanks for the commentary Captain Obvious.

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

When has anyone here called Bryant the GOAT? Also, several players have said Bryant is better than Jordan, including Mark Jackson on national tv.

[/quote]

thats because mark jackson doesn’t know what the fuck hes talking about and was probably caught up in the moment of the game/context when he said it. I don’t think anyone has publicly said Kobe is better then MJ although some people like Phil Jackson have said in certain aspects Kobe has an advantage.

Take that with a grain of salt because hes Kobe’s coach. When you say Kobe is the greatest scorer in modern basketball you are probably right. Then again what does that really say about a player’s game? Ball hog…

another tag line thats associated with Kobe[/quote]

You’ve proven time and again that you have NO IDEA of what you try and speak on. Phil Jackson was also Jordan’s coach, so should I still take it with a grain of salt? Mark Jackson played against both in their primes, so should I take what he said with a grain of salt? Quit making excuses and come to grips with what’s what.[/quote]

If you want to bring conflict to this thread fine, I’ll respond. Yes, I do know what the fuck i’m talking about otherwise I wouldnt be talking about it. You’ve proven time and again that you easily get rattled and ‘grumpy.’

Phil was MJs coach, ofcourse I know that. But when he praises his player so much like in the case of Kobe you know that hes just trying to get across a message of support thats going to entail confidence. Not too long ago Phil and Kobe weren’t on the best of terms, some reports say they really didn’t like each other at one point in time amongth that entire Shaq-a-drama. So yes, take it with a grain of salt.

I’ve heard Mark jackson talk very profoundly of Kobe. If he says hes better than MJ then w/e its just his opinion. One person. Whats what? come to grip that Kobe’s the best scorer in NBA history? Yeah I said he very likely might be. However the only reason you’re putting him in that category of most prolific in scoring is because of the stuff he pulled off when he was losing. Again no disrespect but theres no way you’re scoring 81 points if you have a Gasol/Shaq/Pippen/whoever thats good on your team.[/quote]

You really think Kobe Bryant needs an extra boost of confidence? Phil Jackson isn’t saying it to stroke Bryants ego. He’s saying it 'cause it’s true. Also, all of Jordan’s career high games [aside from the 63 in Boston] were with Pippen on the floor, so there goes that arguement. I’m not calling Bryant the best scorer of all-time 'cause of what he did when he was “losing” [those were winning seasons btw], I’m saying he’s the best scorer of all-time because he’s the best scorer of all-time. Bryant is not a ball hog. In fact, I’d say he’s at least as good a passer as James 'cause Bryant gets his assist within the flow of the game with constant movement. James dominates the ball EVERY possession and his supporting cast is left standing around and can’t generally find a rhythm. I don’t care what assist totals say at the end of a game. Look at the amount of time the ball’s in LeBrons hands vs the amount of time it’s in Bryants. I’d be willing to bet it’s at least double, which if you can’t tell means Bryant’s way more efficient. Facts can’t be disputed man. That’s why they’re facts.

Phil Jackson stroking Kobe’s ego-

[quote]randman wrote:

[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:

I’ve heard Mark jackson talk very profoundly of Kobe. If he says hes better than MJ then w/e its just his opinion. One person. Whats what? come to grip that Kobe’s the best scorer in NBA history? Yeah I said he very likely might be. However the only reason you’re putting him in that category of most prolific in scoring is because of the stuff he pulled off when he was losing. Again no disrespect but theres no way you’re scoring 81 points if you have a Gasol/Shaq/Pippen/whoever thats good on your team.[/quote]

only you could put a negative spin on a scoring performance (the 81 pt game) that was the most remarkable thing I’ve ever seen done kn a basketball court. U call him a ball hog. Did u watch that game? I did. He had such a crap team and they were down by like 20 points. That Laket team needed him to score all of those points to win the game.

You’re so obviously a hater and so biased in ur commentary I don’t take anything u write seriously. Of course he doesn’t need to score those types of points now cuz he does have Gasol, Bynum, et al. Thanks for the commentary Captain Obvious.[/quote]

The funny part is, if he does well with a crap team it’s because he’s a ball hog. If he does well with a good team it’s all because of his teammates.

I’m going to admit that I simply don’t like Lebron and that does play into my perception a bit. I know others feel the same about Kobe. What I don’t like about him is that he overly celebrates and cheers when his team is pounding another team. He’s sitting over on the sidelines dancing and acting like a fool; it’s disrespectful of ur opponent and the game. And then when he lost to Orlando I th eastern conference finals last year he doesn’t shake anyone’s hand as he scampers off the court.

So he’s an ungracious winner and a sore loser. I hate to keep comparing him to Jordan and Bryant but you just don’t see these two do this stuff. They were all business. He needs to grow up and mature. So yes, that does color my perception a bit.

Beyond that, I still feel like I’m waiting to see him drive to a championship with that single-minded maniacal focus I keep talking about that you just know when you see (I.e. Jordan, Bryant) and know when you don’t see (I.e. James).

That’s why I think i have been overly critical of his game 5 no show. Yes, superstars have bad games. It’s just that I still haven’t seen enough of a body of work from James that has me convinced that he understands what it takes to win it all.

By the time Jordan entered his 7th season without a championship his intensity and focus were dripping out of every pore of his body and you knew he wasn’t going to be denied again. I saw that happen with Bryant in the 2001 championship run where he started taking over a lot of the finals games when Shaq fouled out and you just knew he would t let them lose and the.n I saw it again last year where I think I’ve never seen Kobe that focused in his life to get that 4th ring and you knew he wasn’t going to be denied.

It takes more than a few spectacular performances here and there in the playoffs for youbto be considered upper echelon. It takes a whole post season of single-minded focused games that culminate in a championship for your team and your city and for the fans to feel that intangible burning desire dripping from you as you lead your team to glory.

I simply have not expeienced this from James yet and probably won’t until he exhibits these qualities consistently and drives a team to a championship. No more excuses.

So.... what happens tonight??   does Lebron bounce back like a champion would? or is he gonna roll over and play dead? I'm picking the latter.

I’ll cosign on what Rand said and add that I think one of James’ biggest problems is that he never had to work for anything, it’s always just been handed to him. Best player in his class since early highschool, hummers in highschool, outlandish hyperbole dripping off of everything he did/does/will do, first pick in the draft, huge endorsement deals before ever playing a game, etc… Jordan had to work for everything he got.

Same with Bryant. Jordan was projected as a good, but not overwhelming offensive player by the guy who drafted him, then was criticized for scoring too much, then was told he’d never win as a scorer, etc… Kobe air balled 3 3’s in his final game as a rook. He was the second guy to make the preps-to-pros jump in the modern era, and the first back court player to ever do it.

He was considered too skinny, too flashy, not enough substance, can’t help a team win, can’t win on his own, ball hog, etc… And you know what Jordan and Bryant have in common aside from all of that? They wanted “it”. They worked their asses off to erase all of those criricisms and questions about their games, and they worked their way to the top without a fucking handout.

I’m not saying that they weren’t helped on the way, but the accolades came after the success. James expects everything to be given to him, and when it isn’t he acts like a spoiled brat. I really don’t care what happens in his career from this point, 'cause he’s shown what he’s really about.

[quote]nomorewar wrote:

So.... what happens tonight??   does Lebron bounce back like a champion would? or is he gonna roll over and play dead? I'm picking the latter.[/quote]

I expect him to be more aggressive, get every call like he always does and to finish with a good line, but still lose and be ungracious in defeat.

you all sound butthurt get over it the king is here and he aint goin nowhere i honestly used to be like you guys on kobes dick 24 7 then i woke up and realized it’s the king james era

[quote]drewh wrote:
you all sound butthurt get over it the king is here and he aint goin nowhere i honestly used to be like you guys on kobes dick 24 7 then i woke up and realized it’s the king james era[/quote]

The only dickrider here is you. The facts are right in front of you and you still act like they’re not there.

Drewh doesn’t read, comprehend and think about what you write. By his responses you can tell he doesn’t grasp what u are saying. He just reacts and doesn’t come up with thoughtful responses. Like I said in my previous post, I don’t take anything he says seriously.

I heard 2 guys talking in the gym today about James performance and heard an interesting theory. One guy was saying he think James doesn’t really want the ring this year, because if he wins and get a ring with the Cavs he will look like an idiot for leaving next season. So he wants to leave and doesn’t want to injure himself before doing so. So he’s not giving his 100% in these games and conserving himself for next year.

I think this is a load of horseshit personally but thought I’d see throw it in here for discussion. What do you guys think the chances of this being even partially true are?

LeBron vs. Kobe: There’s no comparison

Toying with the city of Cleveland’s fragile psyche, calling the NBA’s reigning MVP “LeGone” James would just be piling on, rubbing in salt. Besides, that would be predicated on LeBron first being somewhere.

For all the numbers, for all the surreal passes and forays above the rim, the most breathtaking young player in the game is still at base camp in the legacy game. LeBron is gazing longingly toward the top of the mountain, where Kobe Bryant is about to plant a flag.

After consecutive MVP awards, let’s look at the resume that matters: Rings? Zilch. NBA Finals wins? In his lone appearance three years ago, bupkis; four and out to the San Antonio Spurs.

And to put a bow on what might soon become a seven-year career of unfulfilled championship promise, LeBron’s Cavaliers, the best team in pro basketball this season, are one game from bowing out in the second round against essentially three old guys with knee braces who Rajon Rondo found at the Dorchester Y.

At 25, LeBron is in danger of becoming the NBA’s Alex Ovechkin - heavenly regular season, hellish playoff finale.

We’re all witnesses, all right - witnesses to Phil Knight’s Great American Hyperbole Machine, where we sop up commercials as reality.

Witness to 3 for 14 in front of your home crowd.

Witness to passivity, flat-out in-game apathy, unbecoming a player of LeBron’s Hall of Fame caliber.

“He didn’t even play,” said Tim Legler, an ESPN analyst and former NBA guard. "He wasn’t engaged. I’ve never seen a star-caliber athlete that uninvolved in a big game. It’s like a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning audibling out of a third-and-eight passing down and just handing the ball off. Or Reggie Jackson taking three called strikes and not swinging.

“At one point after he spotted up in the corner, I saw him holding onto his shorts and bending over. I could not believe what I was watching was a guy not into the game.”

Legler could only come to one conclusion: Stress. LeBron felt the pressure of having to carry a franchise by himself, which Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce and Ray Allen don’t have to. If one of them has a bad game, the Celtics can still win. If LeBron lays an egg like Game 5, it’s over.

Because Commissioner David Stern and his broadcast partners are very good at what they do, there is a tendency to make this NBA postseason simply about LeBron vs. Kobe, much the way it was once about Michael vs. Magic in 1990 - the young buck finally on the cusp of unseating the old champion.

But such a hoped-for showdown not only disrespects the Celtics, Magic and Suns, it completely short-changes Kobe.

He will be 32 in August. Since Tim Duncan (34) and Shaquille O’Neal (38) are not getting any younger, chances are Kobe is going to break the tie among the three most accomplished players of the post-Jordan generation (LeBron, Dwyane Wade and Carmelo Anthony have been to only two NBA Finals between them) for championship rings.

It’s “the Race for Five” or “One for the Thumb.”

Because rings are used as measuring sticks for legacies (see Bill Russell’s 11, Jordan’s six and Magic Johnson and Larry Bird’s eight combined), this is huge. Shaq told me so a year ago. “One more ring equals Magic and that would mean the world to me,” O’Neal said.

Since LeBron is the main reason the Daddy would get his fifth, and maybe Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili will have as much or more to do with the Spurs winning a fifth than Duncan if that ever happens, really this comes down to Kobe’s legacy. He is still the top banana on his team.

Kobe won his first title at 21 years old, although Shaq was the best player on that Lakers team.

Yes, he learned to win at the game’s highest level like LeBron is learning to win at the game’s highest level, like Jordan once learned. But after that defining Game 5 in Detroit in 2007 that seemed to mark the beginning of the “LeBron as NBA Poster Child” era, he has yet to get back to the Finals. Unimportant individual numbers and awards aside, is the Kobe comparison fair anymore?

“You know who woke up the happiest guy in life when the sun came up today?” Legler asked. “Kobe. Because there was a general consensus that LeBron had surpassed Kobe as the best player in the game a year ago. Kobe Bryant wakes up today, watches LeBron get killed for a week after they go down to Boston - and I think they will - and Kobe is thinking, ‘I told y’all, it’s not that easy, is it?’”

See, the problem with being referred to as “King James” since high school is that at some point people actually expect you to climb atop the throne. Seize the scepter from Kobe, who eventually took it from Michael Jordan.

And nothing about LeBron’s play in Game 5 bespoke of royalty on Tuesday night, not even close. If you don’t win that game, you at least have to show up and not let a long-in-the-tooth team such as the Celtics blow your doors off at home.

If Thursday is indeed the last game for LeBron in a Cavaliers uniform, if free agency takes him to Manhattan or Brooklyn or beyond, the emotionally wounded sports fan in Cleveland who hasn’t won a major championship since the Browns in 1964 - must be feeling like a lot of America’s hoopers and 'ballers long awaiting Kobe vs. LeBron:

Let down. Betrayed. Sold a bill of goods by Nike and everyone else pushing LeBron to be the chosen one, it now appears, too soon.

“I don’t want to throw a blanket on it, because it was just one game and I love LeBron for many reasons as a player,” Legler said. “But this was such a defining game in his career. And his mind just seems very muddled, distracted, almost unengaged.”

Unless LeBron has something left in his tank we didn’t see in Game 5, it’s time to face facts: He’s not yet ready to be king.

And whether he leaves Cleveland or not, he should not have fussed so much earlier this season about whether to ditch the No. 23 because he believes Michael’s old number is too hallowed.

Right now he should worry about not switching to the Nos. 8 or 24, because that would be very disrespectful to Kobe, almost as disrespectful as someone comparing the two players’ legacies at this point in LeBron James’s title-less career.

Randman has some Kobe DSL’s, writing book long posts damn dude you got it bad for Kobe. At least Flash keeps it short and sweet.

hahahah this kobe vs lebron debate is so dumb. Just like the Kobe vs MJ debate… Kobe is Kobe, MJ is MJ and Lebron is Lebron… Let the players play their game. Jordans the GOAT cause he did what he did first. No one can take that from him because he’s MJ. Kobe’s game and Lebrons game are completely different so how can you compare them.

Kobe’s got the finesse, craftyness (not a real world but you know) and he’s got the championship experience/desire to make it happen.

Lebron is legit. No one else in the league has the physical tools/skills he has. Dudes a beast. He doesnt have what Kobe has but he hasnt been around the league as long as kobe has. He’ll learn, grow and mature and win some rings eventually but just not this year Im afraid.

Either way its gonna be a rematch of last years finals with probably the same end result.

.greg.

[quote]drewh wrote:
Randman has some Kobe DSL’s, writing book long posts damn dude you got it bad for Kobe. At least Flash keeps it short and sweet.[/quote]

this is not my post, it’s an article. I thought it was appropriate considering the recent game-topic. By the way, once ur done overcompensating for ur hurt little ego do u think u can add any intelligent discussion to this thread or are u only capable of hurling insults?

[quote]gregron wrote:
hahahah this kobe vs lebron debate is so dumb. Just like the Kobe vs MJ debate… Kobe is Kobe, MJ is MJ and Lebron is Lebron… Let the players play their game. Jordans the GOAT cause he did what he did first. No one can take that from him because he’s MJ. Kobe’s game and Lebrons game are completely different so how can you compare them.

Kobe’s got the finesse, craftyness (not a real world but you know) and he’s got the championship experience/desire to make it happen.

Lebron is legit. No one else in the league has the physical tools/skills he has. Dudes a beast. He doesnt have what Kobe has but he hasnt been around the league as long as kobe has. He’ll learn, grow and mature and win some rings eventually but just not this year Im afraid.

Either way its gonna be a rematch of last years finals with probably the same end result.

.greg.[/quote]
qft

[quote]randman wrote:

[quote]drewh wrote:
Randman has some Kobe DSL’s, writing book long posts damn dude you got it bad for Kobe. At least Flash keeps it short and sweet.[/quote]

this is not my post, it’s an article. I thought it was appropriate considering the recent game-topic. By the way, once ur done overcompensating for ur hurt little ego do u think u can add any intelligent discussion to this thread or are u only capable of hurling insults? [/quote]
I can do both mayne.

I heard Delonte West slept with Lebron’s mom.

[quote]drewh wrote:

[quote]randman wrote:

[quote]drewh wrote:
Randman has some Kobe DSL’s, writing book long posts damn dude you got it bad for Kobe. At least Flash keeps it short and sweet.[/quote]

this is not my post, it’s an article. I thought it was appropriate considering the recent game-topic. By the way, once ur done overcompensating for ur hurt little ego do u think u can add any intelligent discussion to this thread or are u only capable of hurling insults? [/quote]
I can do both mayne.[/quote]

lolz

.greg.