You are a dumb ass you can’t wrap your smallish head around why Kobe has won so many championships. No Shaq equals no championships. To me it’s MJ number one and everything is else is up to debate. Who cares about killer instinct, LBJ dominates all parts of the game he rebounds assists scores plays D, not many other players can boast that. And no more of this “well the league is different he travels” yeah he does and so has every other great player. Man if Bron had a Dwight Howard he would easily win 4 plus championships.
[quote]drewh wrote:
You are a dumb ass you can’t wrap your smallish head around why Kobe has won so many championships. No Shaq equals no championships. To me it’s MJ number one and everything is else is up to debate. Who cares about killer instinct, LBJ dominates all parts of the game he rebounds assists scores plays D, not many other players can boast that. And no more of this “well the league is different he travels” yeah he does and so has every other great player. Man if Bron had a Dwight Howard he would easily win 4 plus championships.[/quote]
Ok, I’m done arguing with you. No Kareem means no championships for Magic. No Pippen means no championships for Jordan. Blah, blah, blah. Dude, face it. You’re getting way outclassed on the debate. Andrew and I have called out your lack of logic on 4 or 5 different points and you choose to ignore them and go on argue about something else.
Anyways, Does anyone think the Suns finally have the Spurs number on this rivalry? I can’t believe their up 2 - 0. I don’t know who the Lakers would have a harder time with in the Western Conference Finals, the Suns or the Spurs.
[quote]drewh wrote:
You are a dumb ass you can’t wrap your smallish head around why Kobe has won so many championships. No Shaq equals no championships. To me it’s MJ number one and everything is else is up to debate. Who cares about killer instinct, LBJ dominates all parts of the game he rebounds assists scores plays D, not many other players can boast that. And no more of this “well the league is different he travels” yeah he does and so has every other great player. Man if Bron had a Dwight Howard he would easily win 4 plus championships.[/quote]
You ever see that commercial where the guy is on the interview and he keeps calling the potential boss Dumb Ass until the guy finally speaks up and says “the name is Dumas”. ha ha ha!
Come one, admit it. Even as a die-hard Lakers fan you are definitely rooting for the Celtics over the Cavaliers for that series.
[quote]drewh wrote:
You are a dumb ass you can’t wrap your smallish head around why Kobe has won so many championships. No Shaq equals no championships. To me it’s MJ number one and everything is else is up to debate. Who cares about killer instinct, LBJ dominates all parts of the game he rebounds assists scores plays D, not many other players can boast that. And no more of this “well the league is different he travels” yeah he does and so has every other great player. Man if Bron had a Dwight Howard he would easily win 4 plus championships.[/quote]
And if Karl Malone played with a great point guard he woulda had 10 championships… Oh, that’s right, he played with maybe the best fundamental pg of all-time and still couldn’t do it. We can play “ifs and buts” all day, but what we do know is that so far the league has done everything in it’s power to get James a ring and he still hasn’t done it. Watch that conference finals from last year again. The Magic were basically playing 5-on-8 and the Cavs STILL couldn’t beat 'em. James is allowed to get away with whatever he wants and they still can’t win. Now, he has some phantom injury that no one can pinpoint where and why and there’s conflicting stories on it’s origin and how many times he’s been MRI’d so when he loses -AGAIN - the dickriders can say “If he was healthy they woulda…” whatever. Bryant has a fractured finger on his shooting hand, a bum knee and all kinds of shit wrong and you know what he does? He dominates, doesn’t cry or take days off and he fucking wins. 2 years ago James jammed his thumb and missed a week. A week later Bryant tore ligaments in his hand and didn’t miss a fucking game. James is a one of a kind physical specimen, and his understanding of the game is off the charts, but he doesn’t have the skill or the drive Bryant does, and when it’s all said and done he won’t be near Bryants level 'cause once James physical gifts start to diminish his game will take a drastic hit.
And if LeBron doesn’t win the championship this year, he’s going to be called out more than ever because he does have the best supporting cast he’s had yet in his career. Look, Shaq is not as effective but he’s still Shaq. And then there’s Antwan Jamison. That’s huge. And then Jamario Moon. Anthony Paker. Mo Williams. The Cavs Management has done their job. If LeBron doesn’t do it this year, the criticisms are going to start to mount. This will be his 7th year in the league. The same year Jordan won his first title.
Honestly ill be impressed if he can get past the celtics, nevermind orlando… $10 says cavs don’t make eastern conference champs this year.
[quote]AndrewG909 wrote:
Honestly ill be impressed if he can get past the celtics, nevermind orlando… $10 says cavs don’t make eastern conference champs this year.[/quote]
I’m not ready to write them off entirely, but taking the thumping they did on their home floor against a veteran squad like the C’s has the potential to wreak havoc on their collective pysches. It’ll be interesting to watch what happens tomorrow night.
It’s just going to be LBJ dominating.
Just saw replays of the Hawks game…debating on whether or not to sell my tickets when they’re back in Atlanta.
[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
Just saw replays of the Hawks game…debating on whether or not to sell my tickets when they’re back in Atlanta.[/quote]
sell!
I can’t wait to watch the next few games. I wanna see how the lakers do at utah, I wanna see if lebron and the cavs can take it back and I’m curious to see the moral and initiative of the hawks or has orlando broken them?? Predictions for the next few games???
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]AndrewG909 wrote:
Honestly ill be impressed if he can get past the celtics, nevermind orlando… $10 says cavs don’t make eastern conference champs this year.[/quote]
I’m not ready to write them off entirely, but taking the thumping they did on their home floor against a veteran squad like the C’s has the potential to wreak havoc on their collective pysches. It’ll be interesting to watch what happens tomorrow night.[/quote]
Me and you both know that people over-exaggerate the impact of the first few games of series. I think what we’re doing is kind of demeaning to the NBA players in question, questioning their mental toughness and therefore basketball abilities.
Tomorrow night? Man I can’t really imagine watching NBA games LIVE at 10pm at night. We usually have the replay of the game they show on ESPN at that time and the live game at around midday-3PM.
[quote]randman wrote:
Look, Shaq is not as effective but he’s still Shaq.[/quote]
I already posted it once, but I guess I’ll do it again. No, he’s not. “Shaq” is gone, Shaquille O’Neal #33 is a big center that is solid at taking up space on defense, pulling in some rebounds, and on occasional nights when his hook is actually falling he is a useful offensive presence. In a list of “most impact upon Cavaliers winning games” he’s probably somewhere around 5th, honest to god answer(LeBron, Jamison, Mo… Hickson/Varajao/Shaq/West/Moon). Don’t even try to sell me on him not being #1 in those Lakers title runs(with Kobe a close #2, but while he had his take over moments Shaq was the force).
I’m not saying that as a preemptive excuse if the Cavs lose so I can be all “no supporting cast” but it’s just the truth, that’s not Shaq. LeBron is having a ridiculous playoffs, like he does every year. That doesn’t mean he’s losing because the supporting cast is bad, but they definitely aren’t playing well. The team is there to win a ring(it was there last year) but last year the shooters went ice cold against Orlando, and this year they’re deciding that rebounding and playing defense against the Celtics don’t matter.
The year they made the finals to get swept by the Spurs, he literally put a team ON HIS BACK, with help in one game from Gibson(who has been invisible ever since). That doesn’t make him better than Kobe because it was in the East and Kobe probably would’ve done the same if he wasn’t facing better competition, but it should show that all this Killer instinct shit is just BS. Go browse 82games.com “game winning shots”(not completely updated but it’s an indicator) and “clutch statistics”(updated through 09-10 regular season).
Oh and Wilt isn’t considered the greatest of all time because people disrespect the era/competition he played against, if someone put his stats up in modern day it’d be no contest best player in basketball history, and it wouldn’t be close. Grand Canyon sized gap between “that player” and Jordan. There is obviously some back and forth in the Championships argument anyways, because Russell has 11 and he’s not the GOAT either(except by some old guard type journalists). Media has a lot to do with it, which is why in truth LeBron probably will be ‘the greatest’ when he’s done, even if it’s not really so. Baseball might be the only sport where the truly old greats actually get more respect because the game protects its history like no other.
[quote]red04 wrote:
Media has a lot to do with it, which is why in truth LeBron probably will be ‘the greatest’ when he’s done, even if it’s not really so.[/quote]
LeBron will probably be the greatest when he’s done, even if it’s not really so? Wow. So willing to crown a guy the GOAT when he hasn’t even won 1 championship. I think you are extremely premature in your announcement of where LeBron stands in the annals of NBA history. Let’s just dial back the rhetoric on LeBron for now, shall we?
You know, it does sound like your making excuses for LeBron. The bottom-line is the criticism will start to increase this year if he doesn’t win it all. He does have the best supporting cast he’s had and they’re tall and long and active just like the Lakers and the Magic.
A true champion doesn’t just play the game of basketball well. They make their teammates better and learn how to motivate them either by leading by example or getting in their face or both. Kobe gets in his teammates faces. Until LeBron wins a championship, he’s not a champion and can not even be put in the upper echelon of basketball players. He’ll be the best of the “Karl Malone” group until he gets one. Maybe he’ll shut me and other critics up this year and win one now. Who knows. I’m not going to write them off yet.
Dude, you need to study your NBA history. Freaking Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell were/are upper echelon players. Wilt Chamberlain was a freak of nature. Whose the GOAT? Jordan of course. He also has six championships. Bill Russell has 11 championships. So it’s not all about the exact number of championships but multiple factors. There is not a texas-sized gap between Jordan and Russell. But yes, no question Jordan is GOAT.
[quote]Gettnitdone wrote:
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
[quote]AndrewG909 wrote:
Honestly ill be impressed if he can get past the celtics, nevermind orlando… $10 says cavs don’t make eastern conference champs this year.[/quote]
I’m not ready to write them off entirely, but taking the thumping they did on their home floor against a veteran squad like the C’s has the potential to wreak havoc on their collective pysches. It’ll be interesting to watch what happens tomorrow night.[/quote]
Me and you both know that people over-exaggerate the impact of the first few games of series. I think what we’re doing is kind of demeaning to the NBA players in question, questioning their mental toughness and therefore basketball abilities.
Tomorrow night? Man I can’t really imagine watching NBA games LIVE at 10pm at night. We usually have the replay of the game they show on ESPN at that time and the live game at around midday-3PM. [/quote]
I think generally speaking, you’re right. But, I do think the Cavs not only let one get away, they got embarrassed in the process. If they don’t come out and jump on the Celtics from the opening tip I’ll question their championship ability and their heart. They need to make a statement.
Ya’ll on tape delay out there or do they even do that anymore?
[quote]randman wrote:
[quote]red04 wrote:
Media has a lot to do with it, which is why in truth LeBron probably will be ‘the greatest’ when he’s done, even if it’s not really so.[/quote]
LeBron will probably be the greatest when he’s done, even if it’s not really so? Wow. So willing to crown a guy the GOAT when he hasn’t even won 1 championship. I think you are extremely premature in your announcement of where LeBron stands in the annals of NBA history. Let’s just dial back the rhetoric on LeBron for now, shall we?
You know, it does sound like your making excuses for LeBron. The bottom-line is the criticism will start to increase this year if he doesn’t win it all. He does have the best supporting cast he’s had and they’re tall and long and active just like the Lakers and the Magic.
A true champion doesn’t just play the game of basketball well. They make their teammates better and learn how to motivate them either by leading by example or getting in their face or both. Kobe gets in his teammates faces. Until LeBron wins a championship, he’s not a champion and can not even be put in the upper echelon of basketball players. He’ll be the best of the “Karl Malone” group until he gets one. Maybe he’ll shut me and other critics up this year and win one now. Who knows. I’m not going to write them off yet.
Dude, you need to study your NBA history. Freaking Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell were/are upper echelon players. Wilt Chamberlain was a freak of nature. Whose the GOAT? Jordan of course. He also has six championships. Bill Russell has 11 championships. So it’s not all about the exact number of championships but multiple factors. There is not a texas-sized gap between Jordan and Russell. But yes, no question Jordan is GOAT.
[/quote]
When he said James will probably be the greatest even if he isn’t he meant that the media will portray him as the greatest, not that he’ll have earned that status. They’re already well on their way. The guy gets a drink of water and it’s “Did you see that? King James with the ultimate sip!!! That was like if Michael Jordan stole a sip from Magic’s cup!!!” It gets really old.
^Oh, I gotcha. You know, it’s really freaking annoying. I never seen a player in the NBA everyone is so willing to crown the GOAT when he hasn’t accomplished near what the hype justifies.
[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
When he said James will probably be the greatest even if he isn’t he meant that the media will portray him as the greatest, not that he’ll have earned that status. They’re already well on their way. The guy gets a drink of water and it’s “Did you see that? King James with the ultimate sip!!! That was like if Michael Jordan stole a sip from Magic’s cup!!!” It gets really old.[/quote]
Precisely. I do think that line helps illustrate that I’m not just a 100% LeBron homer, maybe like 90/10 =p
I don’t quite agree with this. It will be more like “one of the greatest basketball players (but) he couldn’t win the big one or he could only get one”. If Lebron’s not careful, he’s going to get the Peyton Manning reputation. I like to call Peyton Manning “the greatest REGULAR season quarter back of all time”. I think you guys get what I mean by this.
[quote]randman wrote:
I don’t quite agree with this. It will be more like “one of the greatest basketball players (but) he couldn’t win the big one or he could only get one”. If Lebron’s not careful, he’s going to get the Peyton Manning reputation. I like to call Peyton Manning “the greatest REGULAR season quarter back of all time”. I think you guys get what I mean by this.[/quote]
I don’t think it’s a foregone conclusion that James will be regarded as the best regardless of playoff success, it’s just that the media sucks his dick so much that I wouldn’t be surprised if THEY start calling him the GOAT within the next few years. I think Red feels the same way. To be perfectly honest with you, outside of winning several championships and developing a killer instinct [which won’t happen] I don’t think there’s anything James can do to surpass Bryant in my eyes. James game is based on his size, athelticism and his ability to get every call to go his way. Once his athletic ability starts to fade his game will fall off unbelieveably quickly. But, he’ll still get every call going his way so that will help keep him towards the top.