Hey my friend
Where did you find that program?
What is the purpose strength or hypertrophy?
I kind of dislike the two progression cycles for the same lift (squat-bench)
Should I alternate something then switch push press to the heavy day and strict OHP to the day with more reps.
On your deadlift days I would do some unilateral leg work lunges/bulgarian split squats maybe.
On the Squat/bench days I would do some core/bracing work.
(I do though like what Flipcollar wrote. He knows his stuff).
It looks like there’s more volume in your new workout, but I would highly suggest 5/3/1 BBB
Not going to comment on what is the right program as enough has been said. Just a question regarding your rep range and progression though. If you are squating let say 80kg for 4 sets of 6 and you miss the last 2 reps (you get 6, 6, 6 4) are you saying you will then switch to 5 sets of 4 with 80kg and try to progress?? I don’t see the benefit of doing this. You have gone from 22 reps at this weight and dropped down to only 20 effectively making it easier. The goal surely is more reps at more weight. Did you write this yourself or is it someone’s program ?
My bad man I should have been clearer. What I meant is that if the reps fall to 22 or below increase the rep range. I really don’t care if it falls by one rep. For the 5 x 4 if the reps fall below 17 I will go to the next rep range. When I change the rep range I don’t change with the same weight I increase the weight. If I fail at 22 reps with 80 kilos i go to 82 kilos for the next rep range. I will also be cutting the rest periods usually by a minute at the beginnjng(rest periods from 4 to 5 mins to 3 to 4 minutes).
If the progression is bad what do you suggest because most other beginner programs ask for a 10 percent deload and continue with the rep range. So 72 kilos x 24 = 1728. Whereas if you follow my progression it would be 82 kilos x 20 = 1640. Sure the volume is still 88 lbs lower but studies have shown that rotating rep ranges prevents stalling for a longer period of time than just decreasing the volume and using a static rep range. So maybe in the long term the 5 percent loss of volume can be more than covered.The density also increases so that also helps hopefully bridge the gap.
Maybe I am wrong so please let me know if my assumptions are wrong. Yes I created the program myself by bastardizing some parts of 531 and candito linear program.
Edit: forgot you can’t post links but there is a good post in strengtheory about it named novice program effectiveness or something.
Edit 2: The last set is amrap by the way for the exercises. I also know that the 531 fpr beginners or BBB has higher volume and is probably better but the rate of progression way too slow for the way I’m world and I don’t think I will be enthusiastic enough to give my 100 percent.
The thing is soul I know I can’t give 100 percent of my effort to 531 cause of the slow increase in weight.
That does make a little more sense thanks for clarifying. I don’t want to suggest a program as it’s a very personal choice. I also think others are more qualified. Maybe @flipcollar or @MarkKO or @littlesleeper can suggest a solid beginner program.
With regards to your comment regarding 531 being too slow for progression. Given of you work and eat hard enough you should be able to increase by 5 kg every 3 weeks, even if you deload every 7th week that means you will add over 35kg to a lift in 1 year. I would have thought that would be a significant amount based on your current lifts.
To be honest I just frankensteined the good parts of 3 programs and added a lot more volume. I’m hoping for an increase in both strength and hypertrophy. Muscle mass increases strength, no?
Should I decrease the reps for the lighter exercoses ? I will be bulking a bit more aggressively than I’m doing now that’s why I added the volume.
Thanks man for the suggestions for the exercises I’m gonna do that.
I can do 180 or so for 5 sets of 3 which puts me at around a 200 to 210 squat. I have a 300 deadlift and 170 bench. I have 6 months to increase my lifts by 25 kilos on the bench 50 kilos on squat and 45 kilos on deadlift. I think I can get close to those numbers at least in 6 months so the 531 progression imo is too slow for me.
Also seeing the weight increase quickly gives me somewhst of a high which keeps me going
Thsnks man duly noted.
1 Like
I like training to be fun and honestly imo starting strength or a 5x5 ain’t fun. Just reading the program makes me.want to kill myself. Can’t imagine how boring it while be if I was on it.
Thanks for all the suggestions fellas y’all are the best
This is a ridiculously stupid statement.
You want results, do what it takes and not what is fun.
To progress you need to generate fatigue, recover, repeat. Nowhere in there is there a need to increase weight. You can generate enough fatigue simply by working hard with the same weight, and you’ll reduce the risk of injury.
Jim’s stuff is nicely in the middle, because it actually has you increase weight which a lot of people seem obsessed with. The reason 5/3/1 works is because it generates fatigue and manages recovery. Part of that is the slow increase in weight (which to be honest is still probably a little too fast anyway). The other part is the deload and assistance work to build up weak points.
2 Likes
@MarkKO Is it worse that this ?
@antagonisticsavant you will see the same advice given here over and over by the experienced lifters. It basically goes if you are not experienced enough to do your own programming, then DONT. Pick one program and follow it. Work your butt off and eat hard. It doesn’t really matter weather it’s, 5x5 or 531 or cube or Texas. Pick a proven program (preferably a beginner one for the level you are at) and follow the program to the letter. Stick at it for a while and track your progress. If in 6 months you want to change, then repeat what I said above, just pick another program at the appropriate level. You have already shown some good progress so I wish you Good luck with what ever you choose.
2 Likes
Thanks for the tag @simo74.
I see Mark beat me to it.
You clearly don’t know 5/3/1 very well if you’re making this statement. This statement is only made by people who have generated their opinions based off of other people’s ignorant opinions. Sure your TM progresses “slow”, but steadily so that progression is ensured or forces a step back.
There are plus sets included in most of his templates which is where you put your money where your mouth is. 5/3/1 isn’t full of bells and whistles and new shiny things for your entertainment, so you need to decide if you want to put in work to see results or drop a post on BB . c o m a find a few people who agree with you.
I didn’t sleep well last night, so I’m sorry if this came off a little uncharacteristically angry.
5 Likes
Well, I understand the dangers of training ADD and wanting to keep things interesting to keep from burning out due to boredom, so I’m not going to fault you for that. A program you do is better than a program you won’t do, but I still think you should take a step back.
You have a lot of really smart, experienced people here, some who have made the same mistakes they’re seeing you make, and they’re willing to come in here and give you advice because they see that you’re willing to work hard and put the effort in, and they want to help you succeed.
Your program will definitely help you get stronger, but that’s more because any program that you do several times a week and work hard at will make you stronger when you’re a relative beginner, not due to how good your program is. Pretty much every suggestion that’s been given will get you there faster than what you’re doing, though, even 5/3/1.
A mistake a lot of people make with 5/3/1 is thinking that because you’re only adding 5#/10# to the upper body/lower body lifts, you’re only getting 5#/10# stronger every cycle, but that couldn’t be further from the truth, especially when you’re in the beginner gain stages. As long as you push hard on the + sets and hit the assistance work hard, you will gain the strength. Right now you have 5 months to hit your goal, which is enough time to do 7 cycles of 5/3/1 if you only deload every other cycle, so that gets you 35#/70# on your training maxxes, but you actual 1RM will go up a lot more than that.
I have a similar problem with wanting to see my results faster, so the way I get my fix on that is to do Joker sets. I only do it on my 3+ week, and instead of hitting max reps on the last set, I just keep on putting weight on the bar and doing more sets of 3 as far as I can. I do it on the 3’s week because, Like I said, doing heavy singles isn’t going to get you stronger unless you’re doing stupidly heavy weights (absolute weight, not relative weight), or if you’re doing something like EMOM sets with heavy for you weights. A day spent doing singles is a wasted training day when you’re in the beginner gains phase. Joker sets will give you an indication of how your max strength is progressing without taking a day out of training to test. Sets of 3 will still help you get stronger.
Ultimately, it’s your choice how to train, but I would definitely put some consideration into using an established program rather than trying to Frankenstein something together.
4 Likes
What variation of 531 is better ? I saw that wendler had a 531 for beginners program. Should I do that? Also is there anyway to make it 4 day? Or should I stick to 3 day?
Take it upon yourself to do some research and find a template/variation that you like the looks of. He has plenty of variations that are 4-days per week. One of my favourites is:
1 Like
Mad agreed. I remember seeing in an FAQ by Jim when I first started 5/3/1 where he was saying something like “If you can do x weight for 2 now, and you can do it for 3 a few weeks later, you got stronger”.
Personally, when I did 5/3/1, I would push my last set for as many reps as possible to “earn” a joker set, where I’d go up in weight. Not sure if I did this right, but I progressed in weight fast and enjoyed it. For example: On my 5s day, I’d push for 7 on my last set. Then I’d “earn” my next set, add 5lbs and go for 5. If I did this on a 3s day, I’d push for 5 on my last to “earn” my joker set, and then I’d add 5lbs and go for 3.
Sometimes, I could rep out enough weight to exceed my old calculated 1RM, which I would then use 90% of for my training max. In this example, let’s say I started with a max of 225, but I did 210x3. 210x3 is a 1RM value of 231. I’d use 90% of 231 as my training max.
lol
Look into a few variations and see what you like. There are plenty of them for free here on T-Nation. Pick one and run it for 2-3 months and see how it goes - One 2-3 month trial is about 3-4 cycles of 5/3/1, so you get to do your singles at least 3-4 times.
One of my favorites is:
I personally started this when I got serious into lifting. I was a cardio-centric and “functional” fitness commercial gym trainer before this. Basically the skinny guy who foam-rolled all the time
I went from half-repping 205 on bench to repping it out full range of motion for 5’s in a few months. Went from struggling with 245 for 5s to regularly doing 275 with ease.
I also enjoyed a 5/3/1 for Powerlifting Meet program that I saw somewhere else. It was kinda tough and I had to to do 2 a days to split up the workout - 5/3/1 sets in the afternoon, eat, go to class, then the heavy triples in the evening.
2 Likes
If you decide to give 5/3/1 a run for the money, my suggestion would be to do the original +set on the last working set, with a back of set of 5x5 with the First Set Last.
I would use a 85% Training max, that would give the +set on the 5’s week going way over 10 reps and on the 1’s week you should get more than 5 reps. IF you get 5 or more on the 1’s week you’re good to increase the weight by 5/10 lbs.
I suppose you know the basics of 5/3/1 if not read up a bit on it.
If you have the time do 25 - 50 reps of push/pull/single leg or core work every training day as well.
And write down the +set numbers for every weight, after a while the same weight comes up and you have a number to beat, say 200 lbs x 11 last time around now you have 200 lbs x12 in your mind going in the gym.
It’s kind of addictive to go in trying to beat the last rep RM.
Doing the OG (original) gives you the basic information of the 5/3/1 and you could then progress to on of the many many different templates.
Whichever program you choose to do 5/3/1 or another I wish you good luck.
2 Likes