First a bit of background. Been lifting now for 15 years with no more than a 4 month break. Started at 145 lbs at 5’11 and am currently about 235 @ 6’1.5. bf who the heck knows 10-12ish%. Was as high as 268lbs during my last bulk last winter. Have a few under my belt already.
Plan is 100mg prop, 75 mg tren ace, 50 mg d bol per day for two weeks.
.25 mg of arimidex daily
day 17-19 60 mgs nolva/day
day 20-31 20 mgs nolva/day
and then likley repeat after the 4 weeks off. My origional plan was to substitute the d bol for oral winstrol however some things are just harder to get right now and price issues.
I have also thought about raising the amount of test slightly. The origional amount of tren was going to be 100mg/day as the batch was supposed to be 100mg per ml.
thanks,
I just did a cycle a lot like that, only it was 3 weeks and I’m still wrapping up the PCT (on week 2 of 4). It was slightly more Test Prop (150mg per day) and only 40mg of Dianabol. Good gains, still waiting to see how much of it sticks. I think you’ll be satisfied with the results.
hey fellas,pardon me if i go a little off topic here but i’ve been hearing alot about 2on4off cycles lately (probably because i’am new to steroids)but i’am wondering how much of these gains you can keep after a cycle like the one mentioned, Does anyone have an experience you can relate?
I’d have to agree on the training momentum. I felt almost euphoric increases in strength by the last week, only to realize the cycle was coming to an end. I’m still satisfied with the results, though. Although I no longer feel the need to keep a cycle going for any less than 4 weeks.
[quote]LillGuy001 wrote:
Plan is 100mg prop, 75 mg tren ace, 50 mg d bol per day for two weeks. [/quote]
For these short cycles, I recall Bill Roberts recommending a 3x dose on day 1 since you’re looking to establish high blood levels pretty much immediately.
Thanks for the replies as of yet. Opinions given will be taken greatly into consideration. I was considering just doing a standard 12-15 week but decided to go this route due to all of the recent speculation on this topic. I do think that I can keep the training momentum going. I will keep everyone posted on the progress once I begin.
For purposes of building mass if you are still trying to reach your size goals, i don’t think they are effective. They do work well for maintenance when you get to a point where you don’t want to get any bigger and just want to maintain a higher level of condition than you could naturally.
This is mainly what i do now, but all of my size was built on pretty much non-stop usage of test stacked with deca or eq, then utilizing an oral 4 weeks on 4 weeks off (normally anadrol). i can now maintain 275 in decent condition doing only short maintenance cycles but i could not build alot of mass.
i gave several shorties a whirl some time back. They are not as effective as long cycles…period. other members have already given good reasons why they are not as effective as longer cycles so i have nothing to add.
that does not mean that you can’t make gains and be satisfied with your results!!! but, you just need to keep your expectation level sane. realistic expectations and modest goals is the key to being content with the results of a shorty.
frontload your cycles on day 1 and 2…i had better results doing that.
The other thing I will add on here is that too many of the members who post on this board are focused chiefly on their cycle, and what it will do for them.
I on the other hand focus on my training program and diet first, and of course how my body and mind feels. I then incorporate the cycles as you would food or supplements to assist my training goals. Not the other way around. Many incorporate a cycle, and then say let’s train and eat so we can grow.
The point here, is first establish that you are ready to take your training to another level. Design your traing program so that you put in 3 weeks of intense training and eating.
Ramp your training and eating up- begin your new training program 1 week prior to the start of your cycle, and continue it for 3 weeks - followed by one rest week which is the first week you are off.
You will need this to recover fully and grow while you are still anabolic to a certain extent.
Then 2 weeks maintainance training and maintainance eating, And back to full out training the week prior to your next cycle, and repeat the process.
Awesome info. I truly dont expect to weigh a bulked 260+ after a couple bouts with this as I did on my last mass cycle. However I do expect to drop a few % bf as well as gain and retain some muscle.
Im also trying to work timing into this as I would like to compete mid next june and dont want to go on two large cycles prior. So I am trying this route and will follow much of what P22 has outlined.
This past week the training has been top notch. Ive also introduced more carbs back into my diet and am slowing further upping my protein content. Ive also timed it that the next two and a half weeks I have an extreme amount of time to dedicate to the gym and meal planning.
Weight today 231 lbs. 20 mg of d bol in the system as of now and today and tomorrows shots will be 150mg prop and ~112mg tren.
thanks agian…
[quote]Contrl wrote:
I strongly agree that a solid training and diet regime should come first and foremost while the cycle should be an addition to the two.
However, I’d personally feel a bit skeptical about a full 1 week rest period during that specific point in time.[/quote]
Be sceptical if you like, however I have had a lot of skeptics around here, but always seem to over come them once they actually do what I tell them.
Bottom line is this after 3 heavy training weeks, your body needs to recover, and since AAS levels are dropping quickly, you need to give the body the opportuinity to recover and grow while it chemically still has the potential to.
If you continue to break down muscle you will get to the point where you cannot repair and build that muscle, and your gains will be lost.
[quote]Prisoner#22 wrote:
Be sceptical if you like, however I have had a lot of skeptics around here, but always seem to over come them once they actually do what I tell them.
Bottom line is this after 3 heavy training weeks, your body needs to recover, and since AAS levels are dropping quickly, you need to give the body the opportuinity to recover and grow while it chemically still has the potential to.
If you continue to break down muscle you will get to the point where you cannot repair and build that muscle, and your gains will be lost.[/quote]
I’m curious to see the outcome of that. I might try that out this next cycle. And when is your contest? I could greatly use some nutritional pointers afterwards.
[quote]Contrl wrote:
Prisoner#22 wrote:
Be sceptical if you like, however I have had a lot of skeptics around here, but always seem to over come them once they actually do what I tell them.
Bottom line is this after 3 heavy training weeks, your body needs to recover, and since AAS levels are dropping quickly, you need to give the body the opportuinity to recover and grow while it chemically still has the potential to.
If you continue to break down muscle you will get to the point where you cannot repair and build that muscle, and your gains will be lost.
I’m curious to see the outcome of that. I might try that out this next cycle. And when is your contest? I could greatly use some nutritional pointers afterwards.[/quote]
I was drawn to the idea of short cycles myself cause I wanted gains I could KEEP, and to be able to come off easily both physically and psychologically.
Many guys post about their training, results etc on cycle, but barely mention anything 4-5+ weeks after their cycle. And one of the reasons is the sudden shrinking make them go back on cycle a lot quicker than planned. Basically they’re always on (you know the talk of cruising and blasting) and I didn’t want to be on roids for years and years.
I reasoned that if I retained an average or 1.5-2 pounds each 2 week cycle, after a year I would up at least 10 pounds of almost permanent gains. Not bad at all for a year of light use.
So the theory behind 2 week cycles seemed nice, but then I tried that approach. First off, I always gained 10-12 pounds in 2 weeks, even while dieting hard! Coming off was indeed easy. But after 4-5 weeks off, I have been basically to square one, barely keeping a bit of strength and mass. Not fun at all. Up 10 pounds, down 9.5 pounds…
At the same time, reading about Prisonner22’s great test taper idea and feedbacks from those who’ve tried it has changed my mind. With his taper, you can be on for a long while and come off easily. I will now do a long cycle and use the test taper, be off for 2.5-3 months and see where to go from there.
And it doesnt mean I wont be using a short cycle approach in the future anyway. In fact I plan to go back between short and long cycles. But all that planning will be adapted based on real world outcome and results.
BTW nothing gives quick results like TrenA does, but I wouldn’t recommend it on short cycles, since it does shut you down hard for a while even if used only for 14 days, which is not desired for a 2 week on 4-6 weeks off approach IMO.
[quote]SwD wrote:
BTW nothing gives quick results like TrenA does, but I wouldn’t recommend it on short cycles, since it does shut you down hard for a while even if used only for 14 days, which is not desired for a 2 week on 4-6 weeks off approach IMO.
[/quote]
true, test and orals such as anavar and tbol are the best bets.
I have no expierence with 2 weeks on 4 weeks off, but I have ran Author Rea’s Max Androgen cycles that last for 30 days with success, both with short and long esters. I have to say that for me they worked well and I do believe that they are probably better from a health standpoint than a 18 or 20 weeker.
Just a bit of an update for those that may be following along.
Today was shot number 5 which truly occured on day 6. Day 1 was just 50 mg of bol as the goods didnt make it into my hand when they were supposed to.
I just stepped on the scale and im sitting at 244 today. Which is a rather nice 13 lb gain. The feeling is definatley there already. My need for less sleep is occuring as well as that nice sense of well being. The first couple days felt a bit off due to my body getting used to the excess hormones.
The workouts have been decent, pumps are starting to get more obvious.
Out for now…
Well just an update.
The two week plan has now been thrown out the window. I know a lot of people say plan you cycle and stick to it. However over much consideration and the first 10ish days plans have changed.
My weight ended up a good solid 15 lbs and have hardened out a bunch since the end of week one. (Likely would of ended up near a 20lb gain had i stuck with the origional planned dosage for the full two weeks) Sitting around 246-247 right now and feeling rather well.
The reason for my plan change was I wanted to stay in the intense training zone for more than 3 weeks at a time.
As was suggested by P22 to take a week break after the week prior and the two weeks on was something that I felt that I should do. However currently eating very well and training my ass off I cant bear to only be on for the two weeks and have time off.
So now current plans have changed this to an 10-12 weeker. Still using only short estered products, just at a lower dose than the origional plan for two weeks.
More updates to follow…