1st Week of Extreme HIT

Bigger Stronger Leaner Ellington Darden HIT Coaching
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Baby boomers are today’s seniors and they still constitute the largest market… and the young people will soon be closer to seniors… my goal is to appeal more to the goal of functional ability in old age and avoiding the long term care facility, walkers etc…(rather than being “buff” and winning bodybuilding contests)… bodybuilders are a minuscule market whereas seniors who have money and want to be able to enjoy it in their old age is an enormous market.

A silver lining of Covid is that many in this age group who weren’t already spending a lot of time online, are now… a podcast or zoom interviews may be a better avenue that books…?

As for some earlier comments made about young people not caring about Jones, Mentzer etc… there is such a thing as “ageism” but back in our day, we called it the “generation gap”… I think it’s worst today.

I was also at the resistance conference… perhaps I met Al… I bought a t-shirt there with Arthur Jones’ likeness on it… remember that people like Jones, Darden, Hutchins, are responsible for 90%+ of proper exercise… and yeah, they’re old guys, but to not give credit where due, is an injustice in my opinion… if you read or listen to Nicholas Nassim Taleb’s “Anti-Fragile”, he talks of a phenomenon, where scientists do research on things that lay people have been doing for years, (Jones never finished high school) first with the objective to disprove it, and then when they finally realize that is stands the test of the scientific method, they then claim to have come up with it themselves.

I paraphrase a quote from Jones… “truth is first ridiculed, violently attacked, then accepted and finally stolen and claimed to be their idea in the first place…” end of rant…

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I’m 40 so no where near as young as your kids, but I’m on the digital only book bandwagon. I have bought every one of your books since TNHIT in digital format only and only recently got Old School Bodybuilding because it was in a digital format. The perk to me is with my Kindle app on my iPad or iPhone I can read them anywhere without needing to carry the book with me and if I’m not in great light at home it’s backlit so I can see it just fine. The only times I buy a print book any more is for vacation on the beach since I don’t want to take my iPad to the beach to read.

I have professional fiction writer friends that have published many books and their publishers still offer both versions. The large print runs are not what they used to be and digital margins makes earning back the advance take longer.

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I’m just wondering if maybe Dr Darden with his many years of experience should think more about catering to older folks instead of the younger ones? I’m wondering if what he has to offer now is more suited for helping older folks than these young wipper snappers who are more into this throwing truck tires around than sitting still and doing strict pullovers? As Ricky sort of says they are stuck at home and they probably have more money to spend on ebooks than the younger ones? It seems like a logical progression, he goes from young studds like Viator in his early days to the older folks today that more than ever need some kind of exercise plan to keep them up and active ?
Scott

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Physical books would be nice (my preference) but this just isn’t enough of a market out there to justify the costs involved. Bookstores have just about gone away and most new books on Amazon are some form of e-book. The pandemic has probably only expedited this. The real high prices on ebay, etc. are really more of a small niche and are they really getting their ridiculous asking price? I bought a few of Dr. D’s used books from an Amazon retailer several years back and the price was only a few dollars…I was paying mostly for shipping.

It’s similar to movies. Physical media is dwindling down (Blu-ray, 4K UHD Blu-ray) and streaming is taking over. I prefer disc for various reasons one of which because of better picture/audio quality, better compression, etc, but I am also a home theater enthusiast. I also like “owning” the movie and don’t have to worry about it vanishing online for whatever reason.

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== Scott ==
Same here , whether it’s a book or a video if it’s one I really like I want a hard copy ,

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I am 42 and would always always always choose a paper book.

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I am 46 and discovered HIT through Darden a year ago. Then I discovered Jones, followed by Mentzer, Viator and Coe. Really into it. Before that Arnold only (Weider).

My opinion is that you first need to attract an interest, in order to have a following. Is the youth of today even interested in diving deeper into the secrets of strength training? Because you need to, in order to reach the fountain of HIT. I assume that we all are lazy, as human beings. This means most younger people into training will seek easy application in order to reach some result.

I searched and found HIT through active search, and liked the somewhat intellectual aspect of it. You had to think and feel what you are going through. Then you have to plan your workouts. Time efficacy, yes, but in all honesty - how many young people will intellectually question the majority rule (high volume training or bro science) and actively search for HIT? I assume we are all considered role models here, meaning, the only way HIT will reach a younger audience - is through hearsay. I do not mean to be pessimistic - merely realistic. Of course Dr Darden’s son (Tyler) will inspire some - but how many manage to bring some serious effort into it, considering the latest version of 30-10-30 is close to impossible to do without rigorous support? Most of us tend to do variations of it, don’t we?

Conclusion: The message is spread through older trainees like me. I have already received questions from fellow trainees on what and how I recommend excercises to be performed. Yesterday a younger guy told me: “I wish I will look like you when I reach your age”. Do I look that old, was my first thought before realizing it was a compliment. He wasn’t ready for the truth yet (HIT/Darden) - but it will come to him…

Sidenote: For the first time in 3 years at my gym, I saw a fellow trainee perform strict, fine negatives on squats the other day. When asked upon, she told me her PT had taught her about it, but had yet to figure out why. The PT was indeed a part of the Nautilus chain of gyms. HIT is a rarity! Hell, look at another new thread where a serious trainee is mistaking HIIT for HIT! I understand Dr Darden’s concern.

HIT needs a resistance movement. How about uniting on a serious website, where all the people in the forefront are gathered along with all the information you need? That is where books or e-books are being sold! Well, we do have the Darden forum on T-nation. I guess that’s where to start!

Final words on this: I think Dr Darden should apply fundraising for his future books (or e-books). Did you know that the minority band Marillion invented fundraising in 2001? They sold over 12000 copies of their forthcoming album without any insurance of it being a good product. They succeded appearantly, as they did it a couple of times more (asked for by the fans)! In 2017 they sold out the Royal Albert Hall in London. Old guys. I find this interesting. But, music is not excercise.

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We did chat for a bit. I recognized you from your posts on the old BBS forum. I missed the Arthur Jones T-shirts, unfortunately.

I think you are tapping the right market, and the sales pitch has to be what the workout does for that person, namely preserving function, vitality, and health as you age. Presumably, once they have been convinced to try it, then the workout sells itself. Maybe later, some clients will be interested enough to dig deeper and learn some of the history about the origins of the method. If they aren’t, well… it seems perfectly natural to me that each generation has it’s own collection of cultural icons and influences. You see this in music all the time. Each generation has it’s own sound track, if you will.

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Ha, ha. I thought the same thing - “not to failure!?”. For me, back to 3 times per week was disappointing because I like once per week, per Dr Darden’s 2019 “Killing Fat”. I used that to drop 20 pounds and after that just stuck with the suggested one workout per week, because in the book he referenced training bodybuilders once per week. My thought was “I’m no bodybuilder but if it works for them it’ll work for whatever goals i have.”. I still like " Killing Fat" a lot.

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SUGGESTION: LIVING LONGER STRONGER Part II

I believe the original had subtitle referring to over 40. This one would focus on over 60. Riding along with where baby boomers are. This group has seen their parents in long term care circumstances and are eager to avoid.

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Yes but it was called the second middle age. I bought the book when it first came out. I was in my mid 20s then.

It worked great then. I see no reason why it can’t be used for any of Dr.Dardens ideas.

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Living in the past, or reliving the “good old days,” is called nostalgia. Unfortunately, many only remember the good and minimize the bad!
The future of exercise is very bright, the good days are all ahead, as information is readily available. Pictures are easily shared. Videos are abundant. The truth on exercise is abundant.

What will not appeal to anyone is unfounded inaccurate outdated attitudes on exercise such as cardiovascular conditioning being unnecessary due to resistance exercise. Fad diets are also unappealing to the young. Unnatural, bloated bodybuilder physiques are repugnant to younger ones, especially women. Casey ain’t needed!

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It’s interesting how many YouTube videos out there on building muscle have some giant guy who has more muscles in his ear lobes than most of us have in our whole body. It’s fun to look at like you’d look at the Elephant Man in a freak show but I’m sure it’s a complete turn off with the young folks.
Scott

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As far as finding a profitable way to publish further books, adapt of course. 30-10-30 is very nicely formatted for viewing on a phone, but anyone wants a nice hard copy, there is an entire industry standing by to provide that.

At the simplest on the publishing side, any good copy shop such as Kinko’s, or any online printing service, should be able to turn the 30-10-30 pdf into a fair quality bound pamphlet at a low cost. Formatted for a desktop web page this would likely not work well, but the simple to read phone format of 30-10-30 is very similar to a print pamphlet.

With more work on the publishing side, a print file formatted for book publishing, which for lower end print services can be as simple as a pdf formatted for book printing, can be put on file at any number of online print shops, and made available to the public for one off printing, as inexpensive or as high quality as both the buyers and publisher want to arrange for.

While I personally also still love printed books and feel lucky to still be able to get a printed copy of New Bodybuilding for Old-School Results, for new titles I am very grateful and more than happy with the format of 30-10-30, and feel like wishing this title were in print is not very helpful regarding the possibilities of publishing further titles. It’s a tough problem to make these publications profitable which I don’t have any answers for, but having worked in preparing publications so that individuals worldwide could have them professionally printed, I thought I would offer my perspective on how this could be done for what it’s worth.

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Dr. Darden,

Respectfully, I’ve been thinking about above comment and I think you’re selling yourself short. I reserve the right to be full of *&(#! on this… (as with many of my opinions lol) but here are some thoughts about people “in the know”… 3 examples and a final point:

Example 1: Frank Zappa once said that the 60’s and early 70’s were a time of amazing creativity for music because record company executives were “old guys who knew nothing about music” and as such, were amazed to see what was popular, and were more than willing to give young artists free rein on their creativity. Then, Frank continues, someone got the great idea to hire “young hip guys” for the record company ('in the know"?) who could more accurately determine what would sell. All of a sudden, if artists didn’t fit into a certain mold they didn’t get contracts and music became far more predictable and much less creative.

Example 2: Steve Jobs never used market research to determine what he should come up with next. He created things people didn’t even know they would want, and changed the world.

Example 3: Arthur Jones comes along, no market research, with big bulky, really expensive exercise machines for which no one had seen a demand, or even thought of and created a revolution in fitness…

Final Point: A book (or podcast or whatever medium), should not be done with the thought of whether it should sell or not, but whether one has something important to say: and for today’s baby boomers, who want to enjoy the rest of their lives with quality and functional ability, your message is incredibly important… as soon as the gofundme campaign starts count me in!

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I am amazed at what ZOOM can do!
Seems perfect for HiT
Even my wife has a ZOOM account
ZOOM virtual dinners
ZOOM virtual meetings
Why Not?
ZOOM HiT virtual workouts

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I gather that some conventional HIT studios have managed to hang on through gym shutdowns by pivoting to virtual coaching. Of course, access to suitable equipment is often an obstacle. Lots of improvisation is required to replace a line of Nautilus machines with bands, and a limited collection of dumbbells and kettlebells.

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The best sales argument for a training method is its superiority in terms of results, and cost-benefit.

This means Dr Darden’s 30-10-30 concept would likely sell like h*ll, right? The question, again, is who’s actually buying? A generation that got it all for free on the net - or a solid base of dedicated followers, who actually sought the information up with a purpose in mind?

How do you reach out over the background noise, to an ambivalent audience? As long as bread and acting are to be found elsewhere, you ain’t gonna see a majority of the Z generation in a gym. (Ok, HIT me in this thread for that…)

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I’m doing fine just using that and a lot of timed static contraction a la Hutchins… I actually have done full workouts with TSC and felt it was just as challenging as using my equipment, perhaps more so.

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The market (seniors) are largely people who may never have even set foot in a gym, wouldn’t know how to use the equipment, are turned off by the young buff personal trainer… they don’t want to hurt themselves, but they increasingly hear that strength training can help with sarcopenia, osteoporosis, functional ability and avoiding slips and falls… none of my clients ever ask about other training methods… they feel stronger, more energetic, and like the limited time commitment and safety aspect… one 75 year old said this to me one day: “I’ll tell you how much you’re getting into my head… I was watching a movie and I saw the hero doing chin ups, and thought, he’s going way too fast and not pausing at the top, that’s unsafe, he’s doing it wrong”. That made my day

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