15yo Girl Beat Down, Security Just Watches

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Heracles_rocks wrote:
Here are some bullet points that olympic security services allegedly provides:

“Security personnel accurately matched to each client’s needs” They were present, so i guess this was fulfilled
“Highly trained staff responds rapidly in emergencies” They were negligent here. They did not respond.
“On-going communication between client and security team” They did this by the radio.
“Management team always available, providing leadership and support” I guess this was fulfilled through the press release.

Here is a big bold statement of this company.

“It’s more than just a shiny badge and a uniform - it’s a total package combining years of experience, extensive training and professional, responsive management.” I did not see any experience showing on the footage, nor did i see any training or professional behavior out of a security personnel.

http://www.olympiksecurity.com/index.htm

http://www.komonews.com/news/content/84063732.html This story is one glorified blow smoke up your ass media responce if i ever saw it. This paragraph is particularly intriguing.

“Olympic Security has reviewed this incident with King County Metro officials and agree with them that a review of policies and procedures is necessary in order to develop the best possible responses to incidents like the assault captured in the video.”

This sort of thing is what happens after cases of negligence. This whole thing stinks, something wasn’t done, and if it get pursued they should be found liable.

Outlaw, due to particular phrasing on what this would be judged on and technicalities, you are probably right that the company would not be found liable, but it doesn’t mean they aren’t.
[/quote]

Dude, seriously, a little bit of knowledge, and a little bit of information, is dangerous and you’re guilty of having both, no offense. You’re no dummy, but you’re engaging in the dangerous sport of amateur lawyering. What you do not have at your disposal above, is the CONTRACT of the services they ACTUALLY CONTRACTED to provide and, an understanding of legal duty.[/quote]

This is true. I tried responding to this post through an edit on my previous post, but it disappeared. There’s a distinction between contract issues and tort issues. A breach of contract in itself does not result in liability unless there’s an actual tort.

The alleged breach of contract he is contending is that they failed to respond to emergency situations…yet, they called 911, and that is what they were probably required to do. Furthermore, he is citing from a website and not the actual contract.

I also forgot to mention as you did that the city (or some other premise owner) may be liable for not contracting for better security b/c of similar events occuring in the past…in essence, undertaking a duty to provide security and failing to provide adequate security. BUT, the city or premise owner most likely has an indemnity agreement (in the contract) with the security company to protect it from any liability.

Also, I know I said a bear hug would’ve been adequate, but I’ve never had to restrain a woman in North Philly, so ignore that.

EDIT: to clarify, indemnity would just mean that the security company would have to pay the damages if any lawsuit is won against the owner

Also…if it’s the city that owns it, it’s possible they may have immunity. If the decision to employ unarmed security guards was a planning decision b/c of budget constraints to avoid paying for a more expensive contract, etc., they would probably have immunity.

[quote]decimation wrote:
What about suing the railway authority? It does not matter that the contract is between the railway authority/local council and the security. If there is /were negligence the authority can be sued via vicarious liability i.e. the actions of the firm it employs.

I believe there would be liability in the UK. Maybe the prevalence of weapons makes their actions more reasonable.

Here the police always owe a duty of case feasance or malfeasance.

Not sure what u mean by street law degree. Street is one of the leading tort textbooks.[/quote]

Dude, stop it. Our laws our not the same. If it’s railway property, it’s likely a governmental entity and here in the US, governmental entities enjoy some limited tort liability and other protections from common negligence. If we didn’t afford them this protection, cities, municipalities, States, authorities, etc. would be overwhelmed with lawsuits and the burden of that expense would be passed along to the tax paying public. See governmental immunity for further information if you please. If it was mall property with a history of violent acts, then this would give rise to a potential duty to provide adequate security to its patrons.

[quote]Jah wrote:
WTF is going on with our world man.[/quote]

Its the fault of the Dems. They’re big supporters of trial lawyers. You can bet if one of those guards had just touched one of those people, there’d have been lawsuits out the ass.

Lawyers (like O-bum-a) are ruining this country.

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]dankid wrote:
That was comlpete bullshit… Those security guards should be fired, fined and possibly charged.

They were OK, up until the point where the girl was stomping on the other girls head.

And the bystanders are just fucking pussies…

It really shows the world we are living in. Everybody just cares about themselves and only will help someone else if its for their direct benefit.

I had a similar situation a couple of years back on a train. Three teenage gang members were beating down a younger smalle teen. I intervened and got attacked, but the three little punks still couldn’t handle me. Sure if they had a gun or a knife, I may be dead. I made the decision and dont regret that I did.

If it was a girl getting beat down by another girl, I WOULD NEVER hesitate to intervene. Even if I would be outnumbered by a group of bigger guys.

PURE TRASH OUT THERE!!![/quote]

Agree with your emotions but seriously dude, you “don’t regret it” because they didn’t have a weapon and your survived the encounter and…“you could handle them” which I’m sure you made a conscious decision about ahead of time (most people aren’t stupid). The question is, would your emotional bravado survive if it were three diesel gang members given someone a beating. Are you jumping in then? Knowing that doing so would result in severe injury and possibly even death to you? People generally are good and do what they can do. Perhaps the bystanders believed the security guards would handle it. Perhaps there was 10 others out of the view of the camera and that made a direct intervention unwise by who was there. The point is, things happen fast and everyone is not equipped to “handle them”. And you do not wade into a situation you do not completely understand. Yes, we have an obligation to each others as humans, but you have a stronger obligation to return home safe to your loved ones. And I’m saying this as someone, like you yourself claim, that most likely would intervene - however, I can’t say absolutely yes I’d intervene because I cannot appreciate the full situation and danger from the limited perspective of a single surveillance camera - and neither can you.

I love these threads because they conjure up all these strong emotions. But this is the internet…and people stand by and “mind their own business” every single day in every single city in the US. Where are all you superheros when all the crime is going down? I’ll tell you where, you’re here on the internet. Now get off the damn internet, put on your cape and go fight some crime!!![/quote]

I do every day…minus the cape. You are welcome!!

[quote]theOUTLAW wrote:

Also, I know I said a bear hug would’ve been adequate, but I’ve never had to restrain a woman in North Philly, so ignore that.

[/quote]

Well sir, then you have not lived yet! LOL :slight_smile:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

Agree with your emotions but seriously dude, you “don’t regret it” because they didn’t have a weapon and your survived the encounter and…“you could handle them” which I’m sure you made a conscious decision about ahead of time (most people aren’t stupid). The question is, would your emotional bravado survive if it were three diesel gang members given someone a beating. Are you jumping in then? Knowing that doing so would result in severe injury and possibly even death to you? People generally are good and do what they can do. Perhaps the bystanders believed the security guards would handle it. Perhaps there was 10 others out of the view of the camera and that made a direct intervention unwise by who was there. The point is, things happen fast and everyone is not equipped to “handle them”. And you do not wade into a situation you do not completely understand. Yes, we have an obligation to each others as humans, but you have a stronger obligation to return home safe to your loved ones. And I’m saying this as someone, like you yourself claim, that most likely would intervene - however, I can’t say absolutely yes I’d intervene because I cannot appreciate the full situation and danger from the limited perspective of a single surveillance camera - and neither can you.

I love these threads because they conjure up all these strong emotions. But this is the internet…and people stand by and “mind their own business” every single day in every single city in the US. Where are all you superheros when all the crime is going down? I’ll tell you where, you’re here on the internet. Now get off the damn internet, put on your cape and go fight some crime!!![/quote]

I see what you are saying… But ive already decided if a young female, old female, or any helpless female for that matter was getting beat on by a male or group of males (regardless of the size) I would intervene even though I know I would get wooped on…

I agree also that it is hard to judge the situation in the video, because we didn’t see everything. And I agree that with the contract they had, they were right, up until the point where the girl on the grounds life was in danger. It happened very fast, because the other girl only was kicking her for a few seconds. And the one security guard was really close to doing something, but still didn’t…

And as for my obligation to get home safely to my loved ones. Well, I dont really want to live in a world where Me or more importantly one of my loved ones can be walking down the street and get jumped by an individual or group of individuals and get no help from security or bystanders because everyone is too scared.

So Im just saying I would have intervened at the point where the one girl was stomping on the other girls head, and i’d hope there are others out there that would do the same if it were my girlfriend or daughter.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
[/quote]

Listen Barney fucking Fife, I’m just saying that there are more factors involved then just jumping in, especially when NO POLICE ARE INVOLVED!

That’s wonderful that your cop got in a fight. He’s a fucking cop, so a citizen can help him out and KNOW that he’s got a cop’s word on his side.

That is MASSIVELY different than being a private citizen and having to deal with this kind of shit with no training and no way of knowing whether you’re going to get sued and lose everything because of what you do in this split second.

That’s why you fucks get such nice pensions- you deal with this shit. But that ain’t what some fuckin security guard making 7.50 an hour is thinking. [/quote]

What the hell are you even discussing.

I´ve been working in private security so I´m gonna tell you a few things.

  • If you work in private security you should know how to fight. It´s in your own interest and if you can´t, you are not able to protect you and those who you are paid to protect.
  • The situation could have been controlled easily, if all of those silly clowns had stepped in instead of walking away or if necessary just taken a hold of the attacker.
  • If you are sued you usually have a lot of witnesses on your side. I could beat people up and know my colleagues would lie for me in court. Who is the jude going to believe? A group of articulate and calm security guards in nice suits or some gang member, drunken fool who probably looses his temper in court or in front of the police?
    In one case a colleague beat someone up after being attacked. The guy called the police and after they arrived asked them why they took 20 min for it, if they first got a pizza on their way.
    Case closed. Most people are stupid especially those violent ignorant punks.

These emotional threads get so… emotional. I’m going to further restrain myself from this one because there aren’t many logical people to argue with.

I understand the security guards not intervening. While the victim did make it clear that she wanted protection, if the guards are not allowed to do anything, I can’t really blame them. What I don’t understand is how none of them checked on the girl after the curb stomping stopped.

So not only are guards not allowed to intervene, but they can’t offer help after the fight either?

Appearently these guards are not members of T-Nation…and did not read TC’s article a couple of weeks ago

[quote]Deorum wrote:
These emotional threads get so… emotional. I’m going to further restrain myself from this one because there aren’t many logical people to argue with.[/quote]

why do you think I said what I needed to say and left it at that? Everyone’s an expert

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]lard wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]lard wrote:

If this is your attitude you truly are a pussy and a big part of the problem with our society.

[/quote]

He’s not… he’s right in that society does not reward stepping in to save someone. If she was in a gang, you’ll get fucked up for laying a hand on her. If she’s not, she’ll sue you anyway for laying a hand on her.

If she won’t, the odds are that you will get kicked or bit by her when you do lay a hand on her.

If you don’t break it up, however, you get bashed on websites across the world by people who are complete strangers to not only physical violence, but the aftermath of it.

Moral of the story is don’t be a security guard. [/quote]

I have been a police officer for 19 years so I am somewhat familiar with physical violence. We had an officer involved in a major fight yesterday morning and thankfully for him a citizen came and assisted him. I guess he’s lucky it wasn’t you, PX , or any other little girl on this board standing by.

[/quote]

Gotta love the internet.

…and LOL at “little girl”.[/quote]

I am almost certain he was pointing out your lack of Heart / Courage. Your obviously big physically too bad it doesn’t reciprocate on the inside. Lion from Wizard of OZ!

Well if you feel so strongly about only security and financial future etc, you are now part of a system that teaches just that. Good job on losing your humanity!

Who also said fights don’t happen randomly?.. WOW get out more. Ever left your computer? Or went somewhere else other than the gym? Hate and Anger blinds rational thought, if you haven’t noticed by now… welcome to Earth.

[quote]Jah wrote:
Yada Yada Holier than thou. More BS, more BS. I never been in this situation but I know I’d hulk check a nigga if need be. Yada Yada.[/quote]

This is soo goddamn tempting. SOOOO tempting! Must… Not… Get… in this… Debate…

[quote]Jah wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]lard wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]lard wrote:

If this is your attitude you truly are a pussy and a big part of the problem with our society.

[/quote]

He’s not… he’s right in that society does not reward stepping in to save someone. If she was in a gang, you’ll get fucked up for laying a hand on her. If she’s not, she’ll sue you anyway for laying a hand on her.

If she won’t, the odds are that you will get kicked or bit by her when you do lay a hand on her.

If you don’t break it up, however, you get bashed on websites across the world by people who are complete strangers to not only physical violence, but the aftermath of it.

Moral of the story is don’t be a security guard. [/quote]

I have been a police officer for 19 years so I am somewhat familiar with physical violence. We had an officer involved in a major fight yesterday morning and thankfully for him a citizen came and assisted him. I guess he’s lucky it wasn’t you, PX , or any other little girl on this board standing by.

[/quote]

Gotta love the internet.

…and LOL at “little girl”.[/quote]

I am almost certain he was pointing out your lack of Heart / Courage. Your obviously big physically too bad it doesn’t reciprocate on the inside. Lion from Wizard of OZ!

Well if you feel so strongly about only security and financial future etc, you are now part of a system that teaches just that. Good job on losing your humanity!

Who also said fights don’t happen randomly?.. WOW get out more. Ever left your computer? Or went somewhere else other than the gym? Hate and Anger blinds rational thought, if you haven’t noticed by now… welcome to Earth. [/quote]

Lack of heart and courage? I haven’t even discussed what I alone would do in that situation. i was discussing what THE GUARDS ARE ALLOWED TO DO and why they are not at fault in this situation if they were ordered not to physically restrain or handle someone.

You see, I’m one of those guys who went into the military AFTER 9/11 because I was NOT afraid to put my life on the line to help other people.

I am one of the people who provides medical aid to people every single day…so who is the coward here?

I laughed because no one ever says crap like this to me directly, but apparently every Rambo mutherfucker in the country is on line at the same time.

I laughed because throwing these insults like this from behind the protection of your computer screen is about as close to being a coward as you can get.

Carry on with your judgment, however.

Lard is doing a GREAT job of representing police.

When I was 15 or 16 I got jumped by a handful of dudes. They blind sided me, beat my ass and threw me head first into a fire hydrant. I got a mouthful of fake teeth for my troubles. I was always a knuckleheaded kid and got into an awful lot of shit, but after that if I see anything getting out of control I’ll try and intervene.

I’m not saying this to sound tough or enhance my T-Nation cred, I’m saying this 'cause those guards - and to a further extent the cop in the mall - could’ve been responsible for that girls death. I fully understand what their contracts stipulate, the possible legal ramifications, the fear of gang retaliation, etc… and recognize the severity, or possible severity each impose.

What I don’t understand is how those guards didn’t grab that chick by either arm so she couldn’t chin check 'em and hold her until the cops came. The other kids in her gang wouldn’t have done shit to help her, they would’ve just taken off and no one would’ve known they were even involved.

The funniest part about this thread is that the same people crying “woe is this new world blah blah hate lawsuit happy people” are also crying “those security guards should be liable, definitely should be some kind of lawsuit.” Smell that hypocrisy, breathe it in, mmmm.

Someone mentioned that the attacked girl was in a gang. I saw the video and read the article and my understanding was that the girl was an innocent shopper, with no gang affiliation, targeted by a “gang” bent on harassing a lone young woman and stealing her goods. Did I misread this?

BTW, the story HAS picked up steam and the video, along with the “public outcry” made the CBS Evening News. Happy about that. No mention of the victim being associated with a gang on the news.

[quote]dankid wrote:

And as for my obligation to get home safely to my loved ones. Well, I dont really want to live in a world where Me or more importantly one of my loved ones can be walking down the street and get jumped by an individual or group of individuals and get no help from security or bystanders because everyone is too scared.

[/quote]

I agree with this 100%. However, it’s easy to have this ideal, and a bit more difficult to exercise its practice in every day life. I would have intervened, if I could do so and get away without serious bodily injury. Hell, I might do so regardless of the outcome but I’m crazy. If I were armed, there is no question what I would do. If I were unarmed and there were 10 male gang members backing up her actions, I’m not sure what I’d do and that’s real talk.

Ever see someone get rat packed for real where the attackers didn’t care about catching a body? There are animals among us that do not know the difference between administering a “whooping” and doing grave bodily harm. And if you’re honest with yourself, you are not throwing away your life for a stranger - I don’t care how well intentioned you are. A whooping as you call it is one thing, but people die getting a “whooping”. And where I come from, you might catch a hot one for interfering as these things tend to escalate very quickly if a single one of them is armed.

The point is not to denigrate your very well intentioned emotions and ideals - I applaud it and share it; my point is to douse this thread with some reality. Unless you’re a Samauri from feudal Japan, we don’t throw away our lives recklessly. If everyone thought as we did, the world would be a better and safer place. The problem is, as you go rushing into certain danger, there may not be another cut from our cloth to save YOU if necessary.

I see violence every weekend. I’ve lived a violent life in the past. It’s nothing to trifle with. The average citizen would be wise to call 911. And I don’t care about the false bravado that floats around here - most of you are quite average. I do applaud you though - we help when we can…and we should. And everyone, regardless of sex or physical stature, is at one time or another, strong when someone is weak. Someone stranded on the side of the road? You are strong. Help. How would you want your mother, father, son, daughter, sister, wife treated in a similar spot? You get the point.

[quote]SirenSong61 wrote:
Someone mentioned that the attacked girl was in a gang. I saw the video and read the article and my understanding was that the girl was an innocent shopper, with no gang affiliation, targeted by a “gang” bent on harassing a lone young woman and stealing her goods. Did I misread this?

BTW, the story HAS picked up steam and the video, along with the “public outcry” made the CBS Evening News. Happy about that. No mention of the victim being associated with a gang on the news.[/quote]

If it catches enough steam, perhaps we can curb the legal ramifications that cause shit like this to happen in the first place.

As it stands, if they even slightly moved the girl on the ground after she was injured they could be sued as well if there is ANY damage at all to her spine or the move causes internal damage. That means that LEGALLY, there isn’t much you can do to protect YOURSELF in a situation like that if you work for a company with those guidelines.

As a society, we have basically “court-roomed” away our own humanity.

[quote]red04 wrote:
The funniest part about this thread is that the same people crying “woe is this new world blah blah hate lawsuit happy people” are also crying “those security guards should be liable, definitely should be some kind of lawsuit.” Smell that hypocrisy, breathe it in, mmmm.[/quote]

This deserves a repost.