15yo Girl Beat Down, Security Just Watches

Off Topic
189

[quote]dankid wrote:
Im glad to see there are some decent non-cowardly people out there and that at least most people here have given some thought to what they’d do in a similar situation.

And also find it funny on a site where everyone claims to be so hardcore and “alpha” there are so many pussies. Well at least they aren’t reproducing.

I think it all comes down to the situation though. And sure, we weren’t there, or if you were there and justed walked in, you dont know all the details. And you’ll never know who is on who’s side, who has weapons, or what it is all about.

But I think it all comes down to values. Think of these different situations that you may walk into:

  1. A guy is getting beat up by three guys and getting beat pretty bad, and nobody else is around?

  2. A 10 year old girl is geting beat on by 3 girls that are early teens?

  3. A 10 year old girl is getting beat on by 3 adult males?

  4. An old woman is getting beat on by a large group of teenage males

  5. A friend/family member is getting beat on by a group of people?

They are all different, and I would probaly react differently in each situation. The only one where I probably wouldn’t intervene, is #1. Unless I knew the whole story, i’d probably have to assume the guy had it coming and im not gonna take a beating for someone that probably deserved it in some way.

But the rest of the situations, I’d have no problem putting myself in danger to potentially take someone else out of danger or save their life. I’d rather live with injuries or die courageasly than know some 10 year old girl died in front of me because I was too scared to risk my neck.

If you are all about self preservation, thats your choice, and I hope that you at least are not just a complete pussy and do at least have some value for helping others when it is reasonalbe.

And I have another story to add. My GF, I and some friends were at a party a few years back, where we didn’t know many people. One of our friends got a good beating that night by probably 20+ asian guys. None of us helped him. Here is the thing. THIS GUY HAD IT COMING. He was always running his mouth about how he wants to fight people he’s so tough, and how he’s a fighter.

Well he got really drunk and pissed off someone’s lady and next thing you know he got “mobbed”. If didn’t have it coming, I would have helped him. The funny thing is, he didn’t learn his lesson at all.

The point is, some people deserve the beating they are getting, maybe even if it isn’t a fair fight. I dont believe the girl in the video deserved what she got. She went to the security guards for help, BUT THEY WERE PUSSIES. Its the same thing as if they weren’t security guards and were instead just 3 random male bystanders.

If a young girl walks up to you and says, “I need your help these people are after me” are you just gonna stand there and watch her get whooped on? THATS SOME COWARDLY SHIT IF YOU ASK ME

You might as well castrate yourself, stop working out, and dress like a female. That way you are removing yourself from the possibility of anyone ever running to you for help. <<<<<<<NOTE this looks pretty similar to X’s philosophy of running from any situation where there may be danger…[/quote]

You are flat out retarded. I don’t know what life is like where you grew up, but I know here, if you let your guard down in south Houston you will get checked real quick. That means I am ALWAYS in the look out for shit to go down because that is the environment I came from.

For some of you, you can easily tell that you did not grow up like that and were much more sheltered. That is why you think jumping into every situation makes sense…because those situations are RARE for you.

They aren’t rare here and if you maintained that mentality growing up in a rough neighborhood, you doubtfully would make it to 30.

There is no way in hell I would stand there 2 feet from a girl and do nothing. I have not written that anywhere but apparently you jackasses who are trying so hard to look badass on the internet can’t even handle someone looking at this through the eyes of someone who actually plans on KEEPING THEIR FUCKING JOB FOR LONGER THAN TWO WEEKS.

If I see signs of escalating violence, 9 times out of 10 I would move away from that area before shit went down.

If you are claiming that you RUN TOWARDS gun fire and fighting, you are a flat out idiot who won’t live long.

Moving away from an area before shit goes down is NOT the same as leaving some girl bleeding in front of you.

Get a fucking clue.

Out of all of you, not many here have actually worked as a bouncer or as security. I’ve done both so where the hell are all of you super heroes?

191

[quote]theOUTLAW wrote:
This could possibly be its own thread, but it’s on the same topic of violence, group beatings, self defense.

Link to story here w/ video: http://www.myfoxphilly.com/dpp/news/local_news/Old_City_Shooting_01_17_10

Cliffnotes - Asian guy w/ CCW is out with girlfriend and bumps into a drunk frat stud doing pullups on some scaffoliding. Words are exchanged and frat stud and his buddies start following Asian guy and girlfriend for a block or two. Asian guy pulls gun (thinking it’s going to scare the other guys). In fact, one kid is not scared (beer muscles) and charges him and starts throwing punches. Asian guy pumps six rounds into the kid. He is being charged w/ attempted murder I believe.

Was Asian guy reasonably in fear of seriously body injury and/or death?
Was shooting an unarmed assailant w/ a group reasonable?
Did he think kid was going for the gun?
Is it possible that Asian guy was feeling tough with his CCW, and decided to bump frat stud purposely?

yada yada yada

EDIT: Also, shooter was a law student at Temple in North Philly. I’m presuming he had the gun on him for when he got back home in N.Philly, as this happened in center city.[/quote]

I’m aware of the incident. The incident occurred in Olde City which is populated by dozens of bars and nightclubs and has been the scene of much rowdy behavior, including shootings.

Yes, the above probably deserves its own thread because there are issues of gun ownership and reasonable force involved.

I’m not sure why he was carrying a gun, other than it’s his right in this City, where carry permits are issued as long as you have no felony record, mental illness and are of “good reputation” (something only the Philly PD looks into, quite possibly illegal but that’s another discussion). I’m not sure how he got in any club or bar with this gun, but that’s yet another discussion :slight_smile:

The kid that was shot is the son of a politician and is quite connected. The shooter is being defended by a good lawyer.

It will make for a very interesting case. The reporting on it thus far locally is fairly sparse on details, but the shooting was captured by the local TV station’s surviellance cameras. It depicts the shooter drawing and pointing his gun, and the wounded not backing off, in fact charging toward him, while the others in his group retreated. And, the kid bust caps in his ass.

I have mixed feelings about this encounter from what I know of it. See the previous thread here about guns for my more complete thoughts. I think that regardless of the merits of the prosecution or defense case, this is certainly a case where a gun made someone feel emboldened and empowered who, without a gun, might have AVOIDED the situation or sought help (there are police all over down there). By all accounts, the shooter was not the aggressor and the other group was following the shooter. Whether they all happened to be going in the same diretion or the group was purposefully following them is unknown. Like I said, details are still sparse. The reporting here has been skewed as the wounded being the victim and I suspect Daddy might have something to do with that.

It will be an interesting case on reasonable use of deadly force and interpretation of our statute here in PA. The question will be whether he reasonably feared for his life/serious bodily harm and, this next part is a big part of the debate - whether he was required to first try to retreat before using deadly force. As I’ve said in the past, guns are no joke and using them in split second decisions under duress is not for the untrained.

Shooting a larger unarmed person can be reasonable if you reasonably fear for you life. The law does not require anyone to “take a beating”. Like I’ve said, people die in fights. The question is how our statute will be interpreted and whether it required him to attempt to “retreat”.

Legal issues aside, I feel in my gut it was a senseless shooting. They group followed this kid for several blocks. He could have sought help. He could have run. He didn’t - likely because he had a gun. If he runs, they chase him down, then yes, throw hot lead at the punk bully frat boys (I wish they’d come to our club and start that bullshit - but they don’t). So now we have two lives in the balance…one kid in the hospital who could have died and is being painted as a “hero” for stepping in front of the gunman (lmfao - he was charging him) and a law student that may have used deadly force illegally.

192

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]SirenSong61 wrote:

Grown men in a bar fight does not compare to a young girl, shopping alone, minding her own business, suddenly being attacked by a gang of mostly adult men, evidently strangers. But hey, when that little girl is your daughter I know all the guilt-stricken bystanders will feel great relief after the fact when you announce you totally understand why they didn’t want to get involved.

I’m sure that girl never thought something like this would ever happen to her, either, during an innocent shopping trip. Oh well. [/quote]

What the fuck are you talking about? What video are you watching? Are you sober?

What I saw was two girls that had plenty of oppurtunities to leave the place BEFORE any violence happened. Then I saw simple assault (or a consensual fight) in which one girl got beat down. It is clear from this video that not only is neither girl minding their own business, but they have big fucking mouths and are poppin off at each other.

[/quote]

Oh yes, I’m sober. Moreover, I have new eyeglasses. And yet, I’m seeing something entirely different from what you seem to think is going down when I watch the video - as I have several times. I also read all the accompanying article. The article mentioned that the attacking female stalked the victim through several department stores. What I see in the video is a lone girl, hanging close to three security guards because she knows she is being stalked and she assumes that, surely, that the presence of three security guards will offer her some measure of protection. Four male accomplices hang back, waiting for their cue, while their female cohort stares down and stalks her prey, waiting for the perfect moment to strike. And when she does, nobody acts. The attacker counted on fear.

At no point did I see (or read) about any provocation on the part of the victim. But if you want to believe that to justify your stance that all the bystanders were right to stand about and watch like they were sitting in their living rooms watching tv, I’ll simply respectfully disagree. But, please, if you’re so inclined, continue to BRAVELY spit obscenities at some chick over the internet. That brand of courage is just so rare.

193

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Man, I’m gonna disagree with you here. The girl who got her head stomped walked behind the guards to get away, and when it was clear they weren’t gonna help she tried to walk across the street. That other bitch bummed rushed her and hit her in the back of the head. The girl fought back, and was actually winning that fight. She had the chick in black backpeddling and cornered her into a wall. She lost her footing, hit the floor and the crazy bitch saw her window and jumped through.[/quote]

It’s hard to tell without being there when the talking started, but it’s clear that she had the oppurtunity to leave. That’s all I’m saying.

When I hear someone yelling on the street, I keep walking. She didn’t.
[/quote]
Sure, she was “free” to leave. And the vicious gang was “free” to follow. Just as they were free to follow her through two department stores and out onto a train platform. But, hey, maybe they would have suddenly changed their minds, once the girl was all by herself…

194

Comon guys they’re just little innoncent girls what harm can they do?

195

[quote]SirenSong61 wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]SirenSong61 wrote:

Grown men in a bar fight does not compare to a young girl, shopping alone, minding her own business, suddenly being attacked by a gang of mostly adult men, evidently strangers. But hey, when that little girl is your daughter I know all the guilt-stricken bystanders will feel great relief after the fact when you announce you totally understand why they didn’t want to get involved.

I’m sure that girl never thought something like this would ever happen to her, either, during an innocent shopping trip. Oh well. [/quote]

What the fuck are you talking about? What video are you watching? Are you sober?

What I saw was two girls that had plenty of oppurtunities to leave the place BEFORE any violence happened. Then I saw simple assault (or a consensual fight) in which one girl got beat down. It is clear from this video that not only is neither girl minding their own business, but they have big fucking mouths and are poppin off at each other.

[/quote]

Oh yes, I’m sober. Moreover, I have new eyeglasses. And yet, I’m seeing something entirely different from what you seem to think is going down when I watch the video - as I have several times. I also read all the accompanying article. The article mentioned that the attacking female stalked the victim through several department stores. What I see in the video is a lone girl, hanging close to three security guards because she knows she is being stalked and she assumes that, surely, that the presence of three security guards will offer her some measure of protection. Four male accomplices hang back, waiting for their cue, while their female cohort stares down and stalks her prey, waiting for the perfect moment to strike. And when she does, nobody acts. The attacker counted on fear.

At no point did I see (or read) about any provocation on the part of the victim. But if you want to believe that to justify your stance that all the bystanders were right to stand about and watch like they were sitting in their living rooms watching tv, I’ll simply respectfully disagree. But, please, if you’re so inclined, continue to BRAVELY spit obscenities at some chick over the internet. That brand of courage is just so rare.[/quote]

I fault the people standing around more than the security guards. As far as they are concerned, I fault the company itself for not allowing any handling of people in that situation. I DO fault them for not at least acting like a wall between the girl and the attacker. The onlookers didn’t have any contract or any job to uphold. Granted, that doesn’t protect them from a potential lawsuit, but I imagine things would have worked differently if every sidelined man and woman jumped into action to stop the violence.

196

[quote]dankid wrote:
Im glad to see there are some decent non-cowardly people out there and that at least most people here have given some thought to what they’d do in a similar situation.

And also find it funny on a site where everyone claims to be so hardcore and “alpha” there are so many pussies. Well at least they aren’t reproducing.

I think it all comes down to the situation though. And sure, we weren’t there, or if you were there and justed walked in, you dont know all the details. And you’ll never know who is on who’s side, who has weapons, or what it is all about.

But I think it all comes down to values. Think of these different situations that you may walk into:

  1. A guy is getting beat up by three guys and getting beat pretty bad, and nobody else is around?

  2. A 10 year old girl is geting beat on by 3 girls that are early teens?

  3. A 10 year old girl is getting beat on by 3 adult males?

  4. An old woman is getting beat on by a large group of teenage males

  5. A friend/family member is getting beat on by a group of people?

They are all different, and I would probaly react differently in each situation. The only one where I probably wouldn’t intervene, is #1. Unless I knew the whole story, i’d probably have to assume the guy had it coming and im not gonna take a beating for someone that probably deserved it in some way.

But the rest of the situations, I’d have no problem putting myself in danger to potentially take someone else out of danger or save their life. I’d rather live with injuries or die courageasly than know some 10 year old girl died in front of me because I was too scared to risk my neck.

If you are all about self preservation, thats your choice, and I hope that you at least are not just a complete pussy and do at least have some value for helping others when it is reasonalbe.

And I have another story to add. My GF, I and some friends were at a party a few years back, where we didn’t know many people. One of our friends got a good beating that night by probably 20+ asian guys. None of us helped him. Here is the thing. THIS GUY HAD IT COMING. He was always running his mouth about how he wants to fight people he’s so tough, and how he’s a fighter. Well he got really drunk and pissed off someone’s lady and next thing you know he got “mobbed”. If didn’t have it coming, I would have helped him. The funny thing is, he didn’t learn his lesson at all.

The point is, some people deserve the beating they are getting, maybe even if it isn’t a fair fight. I dont believe the girl in the video deserved what she got. She went to the security guards for help, BUT THEY WERE PUSSIES. Its the same thing as if they weren’t security guards and were instead just 3 random male bystanders.

If a young girl walks up to you and says, “I need your help these people are after me” are you just gonna stand there and watch her get whooped on? THATS SOME COWARDLY SHIT IF YOU ASK ME

You might as well castrate yourself, stop working out, and dress like a female. That way you are removing yourself from the possibility of anyone ever running to you for help. <<<<<<<NOTE this looks pretty similar to X’s philosophy of running from any situation where there may be danger…[/quote]

You know what…early in this thread, I appreciated your emotion and shared your ideals. Now, I feel like you’re a cherry picking bullshitter. Save the day when you know you can, duck and run when you can’t. You let a “friend” get jumped by 20 people because “he had it coming”? What if they beat him to death? What if he suffered serious permanent injury? Who are you to arbitrate if he “had it coming” and moreover, what the punishment should be (something you could not control). No. I think you’re talking out of your ass now. I think you decided you couldn’t do a damn thing about him getting jumped, and thus you did nothing. Friend? Had it coming? I don’t know what kind of friend you are, but I don’t care what one of my friends do, he aint getting jumped while I stand there and say “he had it coming”. You have flirted with the line between solid morals, ideals, mores and damn good intentions and tripped right over to internet masturbation.

We all understand the anger and emotion that comes with watching be a victim of violent crime. And most of us would want to intervene, if we can. But only some of us are being honest (and realistic) about what we’d actually do or not do. The rest of you are barking behind fences.

Your post was ridiculous and you’re letting raw emotion and bravado cloud any ability to discuss this thread intelligently and honestly. Oh, and you let your friend get jumped? Still shaking my fucking head at that one. He had it coming. LOL. If you were the white knight you proclaim to be and saw it coming (he had it coming right), you would have interceded before he crossed a line. You know, like take the dumb fuck home or away from the situation. But that would require THINKING right?

197

[quote]elano wrote:
Comon guys they’re just little innoncent girls what harm can they do?[/quote]

LOL!!!

HA!!!

The women around this area seem to be more of a threat than some of the guys. Women seem to think they are untouchable by any guy they threaten or hit. I also know you weren’t being serious just in case you felt the need to respond.

198

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]SirenSong61 wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]SirenSong61 wrote:

Grown men in a bar fight does not compare to a young girl, shopping alone, minding her own business, suddenly being attacked by a gang of mostly adult men, evidently strangers. But hey, when that little girl is your daughter I know all the guilt-stricken bystanders will feel great relief after the fact when you announce you totally understand why they didn’t want to get involved.

I’m sure that girl never thought something like this would ever happen to her, either, during an innocent shopping trip. Oh well. [/quote]

What the fuck are you talking about? What video are you watching? Are you sober?

What I saw was two girls that had plenty of oppurtunities to leave the place BEFORE any violence happened. Then I saw simple assault (or a consensual fight) in which one girl got beat down. It is clear from this video that not only is neither girl minding their own business, but they have big fucking mouths and are poppin off at each other.

[/quote]

Oh yes, I’m sober. Moreover, I have new eyeglasses. And yet, I’m seeing something entirely different from what you seem to think is going down when I watch the video - as I have several times. I also read all the accompanying article. The article mentioned that the attacking female stalked the victim through several department stores. What I see in the video is a lone girl, hanging close to three security guards because she knows she is being stalked and she assumes that, surely, that the presence of three security guards will offer her some measure of protection. Four male accomplices hang back, waiting for their cue, while their female cohort stares down and stalks her prey, waiting for the perfect moment to strike. And when she does, nobody acts. The attacker counted on fear.

At no point did I see (or read) about any provocation on the part of the victim. But if you want to believe that to justify your stance that all the bystanders were right to stand about and watch like they were sitting in their living rooms watching tv, I’ll simply respectfully disagree. But, please, if you’re so inclined, continue to BRAVELY spit obscenities at some chick over the internet. That brand of courage is just so rare.[/quote]

I fault the people standing around more than the security guards. As far as they are concerned, I fault the company itself for not allowing any handling of people in that situation. I DO fault them for not at least acting like a wall between the girl and the attacker. The onlookers didn’t have any contract or any job to uphold. Granted, that doesn’t protect them from a potential lawsuit, but I imagine things would have worked differently if every sidelined man and woman jumped into action to stop the violence.[/quote]

On this we agree 100%. If all those people had enough outrage the gang wouldn’t have stood a chance. Violent people COUNT on the fear of the masses. And every time an attack like this is brought to light, it reinforces in them the knowledge that good people will do nothing so they can get away with ANYTHING. Fear. Hitler counted on it, Milosevich counted on it, and vicious little street thugs count on it.

199

[quote]SirenSong61 wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]SirenSong61 wrote:

Grown men in a bar fight does not compare to a young girl, shopping alone, minding her own business, suddenly being attacked by a gang of mostly adult men, evidently strangers. But hey, when that little girl is your daughter I know all the guilt-stricken bystanders will feel great relief after the fact when you announce you totally understand why they didn’t want to get involved.

I’m sure that girl never thought something like this would ever happen to her, either, during an innocent shopping trip. Oh well. [/quote]

What the fuck are you talking about? What video are you watching? Are you sober?

What I saw was two girls that had plenty of oppurtunities to leave the place BEFORE any violence happened. Then I saw simple assault (or a consensual fight) in which one girl got beat down. It is clear from this video that not only is neither girl minding their own business, but they have big fucking mouths and are poppin off at each other.

[/quote]

Oh yes, I’m sober. Moreover, I have new eyeglasses. And yet, I’m seeing something entirely different from what you seem to think is going down when I watch the video - as I have several times. I also read all the accompanying article. The article mentioned that the attacking female stalked the victim through several department stores. What I see in the video is a lone girl, hanging close to three security guards because she knows she is being stalked and she assumes that, surely, that the presence of three security guards will offer her some measure of protection. Four male accomplices hang back, waiting for their cue, while their female cohort stares down and stalks her prey, waiting for the perfect moment to strike. And when she does, nobody acts. The attacker counted on fear.

At no point did I see (or read) about any provocation on the part of the victim. But if you want to believe that to justify your stance that all the bystanders were right to stand about and watch like they were sitting in their living rooms watching tv, I’ll simply respectfully disagree. But, please, if you’re so inclined, continue to BRAVELY spit obscenities at some chick over the internet. That brand of courage is just so rare.[/quote]

Not sure I disagree with you, but “stalked”. Why embellish the facts? Is this just the female trait of being wordy coming thru? Or are you projecting your own fears onto this incident? I believe the report mentioned something of a previous “confrontation” of sorts beteween the groups (if I remember correct, she not not completely alone). Stalked? LOL. That was poetic. That’s all - I take exception to your embellishment. The thread and its issues are complex enough without hyperbole.

200

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]dankid wrote:
Im glad to see there are some decent non-cowardly people out there and that at least most people here have given some thought to what they’d do in a similar situation.

And also find it funny on a site where everyone claims to be so hardcore and “alpha” there are so many pussies. Well at least they aren’t reproducing.

I think it all comes down to the situation though. And sure, we weren’t there, or if you were there and justed walked in, you dont know all the details. And you’ll never know who is on who’s side, who has weapons, or what it is all about.

But I think it all comes down to values. Think of these different situations that you may walk into:

  1. A guy is getting beat up by three guys and getting beat pretty bad, and nobody else is around?

  2. A 10 year old girl is geting beat on by 3 girls that are early teens?

  3. A 10 year old girl is getting beat on by 3 adult males?

  4. An old woman is getting beat on by a large group of teenage males

  5. A friend/family member is getting beat on by a group of people?

They are all different, and I would probaly react differently in each situation. The only one where I probably wouldn’t intervene, is #1. Unless I knew the whole story, i’d probably have to assume the guy had it coming and im not gonna take a beating for someone that probably deserved it in some way.

But the rest of the situations, I’d have no problem putting myself in danger to potentially take someone else out of danger or save their life. I’d rather live with injuries or die courageasly than know some 10 year old girl died in front of me because I was too scared to risk my neck.

If you are all about self preservation, thats your choice, and I hope that you at least are not just a complete pussy and do at least have some value for helping others when it is reasonalbe.

And I have another story to add. My GF, I and some friends were at a party a few years back, where we didn’t know many people. One of our friends got a good beating that night by probably 20+ asian guys. None of us helped him. Here is the thing. THIS GUY HAD IT COMING. He was always running his mouth about how he wants to fight people he’s so tough, and how he’s a fighter. Well he got really drunk and pissed off someone’s lady and next thing you know he got “mobbed”. If didn’t have it coming, I would have helped him. The funny thing is, he didn’t learn his lesson at all.

The point is, some people deserve the beating they are getting, maybe even if it isn’t a fair fight. I dont believe the girl in the video deserved what she got. She went to the security guards for help, BUT THEY WERE PUSSIES. Its the same thing as if they weren’t security guards and were instead just 3 random male bystanders.

If a young girl walks up to you and says, “I need your help these people are after me” are you just gonna stand there and watch her get whooped on? THATS SOME COWARDLY SHIT IF YOU ASK ME

You might as well castrate yourself, stop working out, and dress like a female. That way you are removing yourself from the possibility of anyone ever running to you for help. <<<<<<<NOTE this looks pretty similar to X’s philosophy of running from any situation where there may be danger…[/quote]

You know what…early in this thread, I appreciated your emotion and shared your ideals. Now, I feel like you’re a cherry picking bullshitter. Save the day when you know you can, duck and run when you can’t. You let a “friend” get jumped by 20 people because “he had it coming”? What if they beat him to death? What if he suffered serious permanent injury? Who are you to arbitrate if he “had it coming” and moreover, what the punishment should be (something you could not control). No. I think you’re talking out of your ass now. I think you decided you couldn’t do a damn thing about him getting jumped, and thus you did nothing. Friend? Had it coming? I don’t know what kind of friend you are, but I don’t care what one of my friends do, he aint getting jumped while I stand there and say “he had it coming”. You have flirted with the line between solid morals, ideals, mores and damn good intentions and tripped right over to internet masturbation.

We all understand the anger and emotion that comes with watching be a victim of violent crime. And most of us would want to intervene, if we can. But only some of us are being honest (and realistic) about what we’d actually do or not do. The rest of you are barking behind fences.

Your post was ridiculous and you’re letting raw emotion and bravado cloud any ability to discuss this thread intelligently and honestly. Oh, and you let your friend get jumped? Still shaking my fucking head at that one. He had it coming. LOL. If you were the white knight you proclaim to be and saw it coming (he had it coming right), you would have interceded before he crossed a line. You know, like take the dumb fuck home or away from the situation. But that would require THINKING right?
[/quote]

You should have known better than to agree with Dankid about much of anything. This guy is clueless and has apparently had about as much life experience as a toddler.

201

[quote]SirenSong61 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]SirenSong61 wrote:

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

[quote]SirenSong61 wrote:

Grown men in a bar fight does not compare to a young girl, shopping alone, minding her own business, suddenly being attacked by a gang of mostly adult men, evidently strangers. But hey, when that little girl is your daughter I know all the guilt-stricken bystanders will feel great relief after the fact when you announce you totally understand why they didn’t want to get involved.

I’m sure that girl never thought something like this would ever happen to her, either, during an innocent shopping trip. Oh well. [/quote]

What the fuck are you talking about? What video are you watching? Are you sober?

What I saw was two girls that had plenty of oppurtunities to leave the place BEFORE any violence happened. Then I saw simple assault (or a consensual fight) in which one girl got beat down. It is clear from this video that not only is neither girl minding their own business, but they have big fucking mouths and are poppin off at each other.

[/quote]

Oh yes, I’m sober. Moreover, I have new eyeglasses. And yet, I’m seeing something entirely different from what you seem to think is going down when I watch the video - as I have several times. I also read all the accompanying article. The article mentioned that the attacking female stalked the victim through several department stores. What I see in the video is a lone girl, hanging close to three security guards because she knows she is being stalked and she assumes that, surely, that the presence of three security guards will offer her some measure of protection. Four male accomplices hang back, waiting for their cue, while their female cohort stares down and stalks her prey, waiting for the perfect moment to strike. And when she does, nobody acts. The attacker counted on fear.

At no point did I see (or read) about any provocation on the part of the victim. But if you want to believe that to justify your stance that all the bystanders were right to stand about and watch like they were sitting in their living rooms watching tv, I’ll simply respectfully disagree. But, please, if you’re so inclined, continue to BRAVELY spit obscenities at some chick over the internet. That brand of courage is just so rare.[/quote]

I fault the people standing around more than the security guards. As far as they are concerned, I fault the company itself for not allowing any handling of people in that situation. I DO fault them for not at least acting like a wall between the girl and the attacker. The onlookers didn’t have any contract or any job to uphold. Granted, that doesn’t protect them from a potential lawsuit, but I imagine things would have worked differently if every sidelined man and woman jumped into action to stop the violence.[/quote]

On this we agree 100%. If all those people had enough outrage the gang wouldn’t have stood a chance. Violent people COUNT on the fear of the masses. And every time an attack like this is brought to light, it reinforces in them the knowledge that good people will do nothing so they can get away with ANYTHING. Fear. Hitler counted on it, Milosevich counted on it, and vicious little street thugs count on it.
[/quote]

Which again, brings us back to the swords. If the thugs could COUNT on getting decapitated by a good citizen, things like this would make the national news because they would happen once per year.

V

202

[quote]SirenSong61 wrote:
On this we agree 100%. If all those people had enough outrage the gang wouldn’t have stood a chance. Violent people COUNT on the fear of the masses. And every time an attack like this is brought to light, it reinforces in them the knowledge that good people will do nothing so they can get away with ANYTHING. Fear. Hitler counted on it, Milosevich counted on it, and vicious little street thugs count on it.
[/quote]

Wow, evoking images of Hitler? Surely your argument is not that weak. Stalking. Hitler. Where does your imagination end?

203

[quote]SWOLEPOPO wrote:
I am more angry at the security firms policy more than anything else. When we think or see security guard, we think protect and serve. When 1st responders job description change from act to observe we’ll all be in trouble. Hopefully in this litigious society, other 1st responders like police, fireman, and paramedics wont have similiar policies in the future. [/quote]

Anyone who walks around expecting to be “protected” because some security guard is nearby ain’t very bright.

What do these guys make, by the way–8, 10 bucks an hour? Just wondering.

No disrespect, but some of you are just…retarded. This isn’t the wild west and you’re not Wyatt Earp. If most people acted the way they THINK (hoped?) they would in certain situations, those same people likely would not be with us for very long.

204

Interesting how so many people think they would just whoop ass. Lot of Internet warriors.

205

[quote]Itchy wrote:

[quote]SWOLEPOPO wrote:
I am more angry at the security firms policy more than anything else. When we think or see security guard, we think protect and serve. When 1st responders job description change from act to observe we’ll all be in trouble. Hopefully in this litigious society, other 1st responders like police, fireman, and paramedics wont have similiar policies in the future. [/quote]

Anyone who walks around expecting to be “protected” because some security guard is nearby ain’t very bright.

What do these guys make, by the way–8, 10 bucks an hour? Just wondering.

No disrespect, but some of you are just…retarded. This isn’t the wild west and you’re not Wyatt Earp. If most people acted the way they THINK (hoped?) they would in certain situations, those same people likely would not be with us for very long.

[/quote]

No doubt.

People without experience are SHOCKED by this. I’m not shocked. I’ve seen girls beat up way worse than this and some of them actually WANTED IT for gang initiation.

Chances are, if this situation is THAT disturbing to you and shocking, you probably wouldn’t do shit if things went down as opposed to those who have actually witnessed shit like this before.

My worst memory of an instance like this involved about 15 girls standing around one girl on the ground beating the living shit out of her. My dad ran out and ended that as this was fucking JUNIOR HIGH at Woodson Junior high school and he was a teacher there.

206

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I fault the people standing around more than the security guards. As far as they are concerned, I fault the company itself for not allowing any handling of people in that situation. I DO fault them for not at least acting like a wall between the girl and the attacker. The onlookers didn’t have any contract or any job to uphold. Granted, that doesn’t protect them from a potential lawsuit, but I imagine things would have worked differently if every sidelined man and woman jumped into action to stop the violence.[/quote]

It’s not so much the security company X. It’s the party that contracted that company. They chose what type of service to deploy - not the security company. Imagine you own a security company. Customer says, I need unarmed security for roving or standing “observe and report” patrols/posts. You give the rate for that service and provide the employees. Now, as a business owner, who do you send? Well, the answer is you send anyone that can walk and chew gum at the same time because it requires little training and being that it’s an unarmed “observe and report” position, your contract rate is low, and your liability exposure is thus low. And in turn, you’re not paying that employee much. You send him out there with a uniform and that’s it. You don’t send out your $25/hour Rambo when the customer requests a $9/hour Gomer Pyle with a reflective vest. The issue as to what type of security was retained lies squarely on the party that contracted with the security company. They requested Y (you stole “X” as a reference LOL) and they receive “Y”.

I of course, agree 100% with the rest of your thoughts. All it takes people, is a few good men to act with courage and decency, and the rest of the decent people will usually, and hopefully, fall behind you.

207

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]SirenSong61 wrote:
On this we agree 100%. If all those people had enough outrage the gang wouldn’t have stood a chance. Violent people COUNT on the fear of the masses. And every time an attack like this is brought to light, it reinforces in them the knowledge that good people will do nothing so they can get away with ANYTHING. Fear. Hitler counted on it, Milosevich counted on it, and vicious little street thugs count on it.
[/quote]

Wow, evoking images of Hitler? Surely your argument is not that weak. Stalking. Hitler. Where does your imagination end?
[/quote]

fwiw BG, from a news story about this I saw yesterday, the girl was following around the victim in the shopping mall harrassing her … another word for that is “stalk” I believe

208

SWORDS! SWORDS! SWORDS! SWORDS! SWORDS!

Why is everyone ignoring my great ideas on this!!!

V

209

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Itchy wrote:

[quote]SWOLEPOPO wrote:
I am more angry at the security firms policy more than anything else. When we think or see security guard, we think protect and serve. When 1st responders job description change from act to observe we’ll all be in trouble. Hopefully in this litigious society, other 1st responders like police, fireman, and paramedics wont have similiar policies in the future. [/quote]

Anyone who walks around expecting to be “protected” because some security guard is nearby ain’t very bright.

What do these guys make, by the way–8, 10 bucks an hour? Just wondering.

No disrespect, but some of you are just…retarded. This isn’t the wild west and you’re not Wyatt Earp. If most people acted the way they THINK (hoped?) they would in certain situations, those same people likely would not be with us for very long.

[/quote]

No doubt.

People without experience are SHOCKED by this. I’m not shocked. I’ve seen girls beat up way worse than this and some of them actually WANTED IT for gang initiation.

Chances are, if this situation is THAT disturbing to you and shocking, you probably wouldn’t do shit if things went down as opposed to those who have actually witnessed shit like this before.

My worst memory of an instance like this involved about 15 girls standing around one girl on the ground beating the living shit out of her. My dad ran out and ended that as this was fucking JUNIOR HIGH at Woodson Junior high school and he was a teacher there.
[/quote]

2 weekends ago, a girl in the club was getting “bootcamped” in the head and face by 4 “women” in heels. She got lumped up and cut. And robbed. This happened in a flash, 10 feet from the stage I post up on. A flash. I did not blink, did not hesitate, did not wait for my team to back me up - I do that whether it’s male or female combatants and believe me, it’s not “best practices” but it’s how I roll - no bravado there - there is no “blink” because I know I’m in MY house and we cannot lose and I know everyone has been searched for weapons. Big difference. Would I have helped this girl? Absolutely. But I would not have rushed in blindly as some here claim they would.