Loopholes are complete bullshit and a lie perpetrated by the anti gun loons. Roundly debunked man.
Actually I do agree with you here… They tend to be rather unhinged, sociopathic individuals… Aside from pot specific dealers, they tend to be friendlier. Going by the people I knew in high school, so that’s anecdotal.
My answer would be to legalise and regulate given statistics indicate legalisation doesn’t equate to more problematic use. Legalisation doesn’t equate to blanket allowance, we would need to treat these substances similar to how we treat tobacco (note I’m not talking about heroin… We can’t exactly legalise that)
So you’re telling me a family member can’t gift a gun… This isn’t true as I knew a couple families who would gift underage family members with guns…
I recall one 13y/o kid who slept with a revolver under his pillow.
And you have the opportunity to stop it before it gets out of hand.
Crocodile Dundee was a bad ass with a knife. In Chicago people would be stepping over him on the sidewalk.
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Plenty of weed dealers here are armed, too. It’s a lucrative business still.
That’s not a loophole. That’s a straw buyer.
You seem awfully concerned with the United States. Why? You don’t live here. I can’t imagine caring what happens in Australia. I mean, I couldn’t care less what Australia does with Poop Shoot or Fruit Loop or whatever the name of the club is where guys go to wear singlets and tight shorts.
Not here they aren’t… Although I’ll bite and say within the highest levels of distribution they are. With illigal drugs when the trade is highly organsed you’ve typically got guns, this went hand in hand with alcohol prohibition… Regulation by large sorted out that mess. When you’ve got illicit drugs on a mass scale you’ve got guns. If as a society we refuse to cater towards harm minimisation, I’d say cater towards taking these big guys out… Not punishing small time possession/use/taking out you’re local, highly replaceable neighborhood dealer.
Even when you take out the big guys, someone else ramps up production. I posted a study within my other thread showcasing the impact heroin busts had on the availability of heroin on the street. The result was it made no difference.
I used to live there, I grew up there (early/mid teens)… I still routinely go back when I can (but this very expensive) I have many, many family members who live in the United States. I was still concerned with Australian culture when I was living in the US. There are many things wrong with both the United States and Australia, neither country is perfect
Keep the argument respectful and please refrain from making attacks/insults that don’t relate to the conversation at hand
This is a friendly debate… Nothing more
It’s poof doof btw
What’s this?
Crocodile Dundee is also a stereotype and… From the 1980s, that typical Aussie stereotype is by in most part bullshit, we have a lot of immigration/very diverse communities within the country. Not that this is a bad thing (as it’s not)… However to talk about a media icon as if he is a representation of Australian culture simply isn’t true man.
Though stabbings are more common than shootings. You’ve certainly still got those old school Australians… But back in the Crocodile Dundee era people did openly carry guns in the back of their cars prior to going hunting, things are different now and I can’t say I’m upset about that.
straw buyer.
.
[straw buyer]
NOUN
US
.
a person who buys something on behalf of another person in order to circumvent legal restrictions or enable fraud.
“straw buyers purchased weapons and passed them on to cartels and criminals” ·
[more]
In other words… Not a loophole but a straw purchase.
Ahhh, so I’ve got loophole and “straw buyer” confused. A loophole to me would be a gun show/private purchase negating the need for a background check.
Can’t one be prosecuted for this? Is there liability pertaining to the party gifting the weapon?
Those don’t happen at legit gun shows. A person can obviously circumvent that, but gun shows have very stringent guidelines. This only highlights the fact that more laws will only be further circumvented by criminals while hindering law abiding people.
Good question. I don’t have an answer for you, honestly as I’ve never run across that particular issue, but I’d wager it is illegal if you knowingly provide a firearm to someone that can’t lawfully own one. Like selling booze to a kid.
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I should state in my mind this is purely debate, I harbour no resentment/ill will towards you as I know these conversations can at times get out of hand when people get passionate about a certain issues
What about prosecution for straw buyers? Is this a common occurrence? Is straw purchasing legal?
If gun control isn’t feasible (given the societal differentiation within the US it’d be very difficult)… How does one go about ensuring a black market supply isn’t abundant? One could try enforcing stricter penalties… But look how that turned out with drugs/alcohol
See my above post.
I’d be in favor of straw buyers being prosecuted should they buy for a felon or minor.
I agree with you here. Unfortunately in times when epidemics (regarding certain behaviors/substances/actions) spread, laws will be put in place that effect law abiding people within a deleterious fashion
Take opiates, widely misued… But for a patient with severe, chronic disabling pain they can be the difference regarding being able to go to work and not being able to get out of bed. Following the epidemic of misue several FDA guidelines (not law, but guidelines) were put into place stating going above a certain morphine equivalent dose (widely flawed guideline because analgesic potency from med/med, esp for those with differing receptor site affinities will differ from person to person), duration of prescription would make one liable to getting into trouble
The result was MANY chronic pain patients having their meds pulled, some turned to black market opiates to be able to function (not abuse them).
The same rhetoric does stand with gun control, it does affect a relatively large demographic of law abiding citizens … Still, I see no harm in federally mandating background checks, requiring one to own a gun safe (keep it away from children)… Most keep their liquor/marijuana (in legal states) away from the hands of children, I think the same should be done with guns.
I am NOT in favour of draconian Australian style regulation… I am in favour for stricter regulations comparative to what is currently in place federally
I’m ok with background checks, but how do you actually check to see if people are keeping guns and drugs / alcohol separate or have a safe ? Again… criminals don’t care. It’s they who need to be addressed.
Well in Aus you’ve got random checkups… They’re an infringement of one’s rights if you ask me… But they do ensure we keep guns locked up
If you’re young child accidentally ingests cannabis/liquor you’ve left upon the table you should probably be investigated as leaving such items out on the open for young children to take would be incredibly irresponsible (in my opinion)
Breaking into the liquor cabinet/gun safe/somehow getting to the top shelf is a different story
As is cultural difference allowing say… A glass of wine (Italy I believe allows kids to drink small amounts as it’s culturally appropriate, as does the Jewish religion on Shabbas)
I think it’s a simple equation. The caveat is that this is for a nation like the US which is large geographically as well as populously.
You can go after guns or you can go after criminals. What’s the better target to concentrate our efforts on?
I’ve had this body of thought with knives… Here it’s illigal to carry a weapon for self defence, yet in certain neighborhoods youth delinquency is very common. I happen to have a cousin who was held at knifepoint, lost his money/phone … The criminals don’t care if they’re caught, half of them are sociopaths (Generalisation, I have no data to back this). You’ve got a lot of kids here who carry knives/improvised weapons irrespective of the law at hand. I admit this is a valid point
Law abiding citizens such as (GENERALLY) myself aren’t going to carry weapons due to the penalties imposed for those possessing them. Three quarters of us probably wouldn’t be comfortable enough to use them and/or know how to use them, thus perhaps it would just provoke the attacker
When I think about which is the better scenario
- held at knifepoint for my phone… Attack the robber, potentially both of us are stabbed repeatedly, very messy
- give him the phone, lock it down and get a replacement via insurance… Come out unscathed and file a report with the police
I think the logical solution is to give the phone
Fair enough, differing nations differ regarding sociocultural normalities, geographical spread, socioeconomic spread etc. Saying gun control works for Australia thus it must work for America would be ignorant as it doesn’t take into account the cultural differentiation between the countries.
Legalised prostitution worked very well in Aus, I can’t imagine it’d work well in America given the attitudes towards sex, just as I can’t imagine raising the drinking age to a mandatory 21 in Italy or Australia would sit well with the populace… Or vice versa, lowering the drinking age to 16-18 in the US/reclassifying prostitution as a criminal offence in Aus
I’d rather go after violent criminals that I would guns as a whole. Though I’d be happy if we had federally mandated background checks + heavy resourcing to attack/dismantle markets for black market gun ownership… I don’t know if the latter would work however given we haven’t exactly been successful within dismantling drug smuggling/networks of mass distribution.