[quote]Aragorn wrote:
incentive [/quote]
That damn silly word again…
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
People who eat at McDonalds do so because it’s cheap, not because it provides real food.
McDonalds is not catering to people like you.[/quote]
I have to be honest. When it comes time for a cheat meal, I consider McDonalds for the quality “shit” feeling of the food I could consume. The food is easy to put down and is a nice break from 5-6 strict meals every day for a couple weeks at a time. Though Five Guys has been winning out on cheat meals - when I’m in the US. I haven’ touched the Japanese McD’s, but they have some cool options not available in America.
Also, Shamrock Shakes, best thing since crack. Brings back good college memories.
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:
[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:
[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
If these people think they can improve their job I have no idea why it’s laughable.
[/quote]
Because they think their labor is worth $15 an hour. That is laughable.
They flip burgers FFS. I barely made more than that when I started at a professional firm after getting a degree. [/quote]
They are probably aiming high like any attempted negotiation does. What in your opinion is the magic amount they should think their labor is worth? And why are we against them trying to improve that amount? [/quote]
Their relative lack of skill (they flip burgers here) is more likely than not worth less than the $7.25 they make.
Their labor is worth what the market will pay for it. [/quote]
Truthfully though, “flipping burgers” or more generally working in the kitchen is harder than it seems. A lot of the work is very dirty and labor intensive. There aren’t high skill requirements, but other people don’t want to do it, specifically people would rather work as cashiers than do the dirty work for the same pay.
In high school I worked at Target in the backroom and we made 2$/hour more than cashiers because our work was more labor intensive; less people wanted to do it in favor of working registers or doing sales floor duty.
I’m not saying minimum wage should be higher. But if all employees in a certain setting have the same wage, and some have harder work than others, I’m not surprised this kind of thing happens
Edit: A better situation would be if minimum wage were actually lower, and the more labor intensive work paid above minimum wage[/quote]
I agree with you’re last line, however saying working in a kitchen is labor is just false. It may be dirty hot work, but that shit is not a labor job, as evidenced by the pay.
Also, where I live 15/hr is what they start SKILLED trade apprentices/greenhorns…[/quote]
Fair enough, cooking itself is not labor, however the people working the kitchen have to clean it up too meaning they’re hauling out all the lard and garbage at the end of the night, cleaning all the appliances and utensils etc. It is more labor intensive than working the register. While not labor intensive, I believe many minimum wage jobs are even LESS labor intensive than working the kitchen, which was the basis of my main point[/quote]
No. I cleaned up puke, beer, liquor, broken bottles, piss, and a bunch of other crap for less than 7$ an hour in a bar as a security man, and for $2.15/hour as a bartender when no security was there. Not only is flipping burgers not labor, it’s not even that gross when you have to clean up in the grand scope of things. Give me the choice between sticking my hand forearm deep in a sink clogged with puke for 30 MINUTES while trying to unclog the U pipe in a bathroom without a ventilator (actually happened)…or cleaning piles of human shit off floors and walls (also true)…& carrying out grease traps, I know exactly what I am choosing.
That said I dont mind your main point, which was that labor intensive jobs should probly be paid slightly more than non intensive jobs in a minimum wage environment. unfortunately that is not applicable because of the fact that the workers are not demanding graded pay, they are demanding doubling of pay for everyone. and in any case I believe that the cashier/drive thru positions are used as incentive in many cases for people who are good employees or on time, due exactly to what you said above (say to experienced workers instead of a raise, “you get the easy job because you’ve been here a while”)[/quote]
That’s fair, i’m not talking about the fast food kitchen vs all other jobs, really i’m just talking about jobs in fast food, since the standard is everyone gets minimum wage and there are no tips, and it was the original topic (in some places, the servers tips are pooled and divided between everyone but thats a whole different discussion).
So yes, of course working in a fast food kitchen is not labor in the sense of “skilled labor” (construction, carpentry, utilities, other trades etc). But the sense I get in this discussion is that anyone who is working in fast food is unskilled or lazy. Which may be true. But every time I go into a fast food restaurant theres 2-3 cashiers near the registers just chillin, not doing anything because there’s no customers but me. But the cooks are still in the kitchen always doing something. And in general my perception has been that in almost every company that deals with customers, people working the front do less work than the people working in the back, and they are often paid the same
For the record I never worked in fast food but I eat it a lot (dirty bulking son) so I have no emotions invested in this. But i’m pretty sure fastfood restrooms get pretty dirty too … shit, piss, used condoms, drug paraphernalia you name it… not vomit so much because there’s no alcohol involved but you get the point
finally all discussions of wages are entirely contingent upon the cost of living in the area in question
[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:
I got you man. Im just saying there a degrees of labor and to call a restaurant job labor is a misnomer. The job may involve labor but it isn’t a labor job. Sorry for nitpicking, I just had this discussion with a friend who said serving drinks is labor…[/quote]
I love you brother and agree with a ton you say, but you and I are gonna disagree on this one. I WILL say that it depends very much on where you serve drinks. I’ve seen a lot of bars where it was a cush job…Buffalo Wild Wings, Olive Garden, higher end bar. Not labor. Not even with a “rush” on the bartender.
But you walk into a bar with 300-500 people in it, lined up 6-10 deep at the bar, all hammered, all wanting drinks at the same time and all causing problems for 6-8 hours straight…that’s a labor job. There are places where it absolutely is a labor job.
I’ve worked concrete jobs, framing, demolition, and still the most tired and SORE that I’ve ever been was at a bar.
I’ll break it down like this: These are actual numbers from my bartending days (I’ve worked security, bar, staff manager, and general operations business manager for 3 locations on 1 staff roll, having kept numbers in my brain from running product and inventory orders)
5 hours
1800 shots (it was something odd like 1864 or something, but rounded down to do easy math)
300 beers, both bottles and imports (rounded down)
~200 mixed drinks (again rounded for easy math)
= 2300 drinks poured in 5 hours. Or approximately 1 drink every 7.6 seconds for 5 hours straight. The vast majority with shots 3 or more ingredients and mixed in rough ratios. With only 2 bartenders. In a place that can only hold about 75 ppl at a time (turnover rate was incredible at that place).
So, while you’re pouring these drinks at that rate, I’d like you to stand with your knees locked out and with your back bent over at 45 degrees. I’d like you to hold this exact position for 5 straight hours, and mix in a few thousand side bends and rotation-reaches with it. Oh–and also please do fractions and decimal multiplication in your head at a rate of between 2-10 times a minute to come up with prices on demand :).
That, my friend, is labor.
Now being completely honest, that was not the busiest day I’ve worked personally at that job, and all the weekends are pretty close to being about like that, albeit a bit slower. The largest bar I ran and bartended at, which could fit about 600 people, literally ran me into a place where I couldn’t walk right for about 2 days afterwards.
I tip people well at franchise (buffalo wild wings, olive garden) and higher end bars (wine bars, very good mixology bars) because I am paying for a drink that takes some skill to make, and I want a well mixed and well made drink. I don’t tip because it’s a “labor job” because it’s not. It’s a nice easy job.
I tip people well at dive bars just pouring beer because I have been that guy, and it blows ass in you don’t know how many ways to stay at a bar for 7 or 8 hours at $2.15 per hour, pour maybe 15 drinks, and get stiffed by all your tickets and go home having earned a whopping 16$ because they are fucking assholes who think you have it easy. Not a labor job, but it sucks ass to sit for that long and get that little.
I tip people well at busy bars–both the dive and the party variety–because I want quick service and I know they are busy and they prioritize their time. I won’t remember your name, maybe not even your face unless you stiff me…in which case I will hold it against you for at least the rest of the night and put you at the TAIL end of everybody, ever (even if I don’t hold it against you for a month depending on how often you come in). But I WILL remember your hand, your jewelry, your shirt, your watch when you stick good money in my jar or in my face. And you better believe you’ll get served first in a rush as long as you keep it up…hell I have called people at the back of a rush 6 deep because they tip. I’ll call you up in front of the line if you’ve treated me well enough. Labor job in many cases, although not all.
So again, I’ll definitely agree there are many places where the bartender is not a labor job by any real means, even in the middle of a “rush”. But there are a good amount of bars where the pace is very stressful both physically and mentally. I would not poo-poo a bartender’s work rate or not tip them, ever (not that you were suggesting that 
).
[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:
[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:
[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
If these people think they can improve their job I have no idea why it’s laughable.
[/quote]
Because they think their labor is worth $15 an hour. That is laughable.
They flip burgers FFS. I barely made more than that when I started at a professional firm after getting a degree. [/quote]
They are probably aiming high like any attempted negotiation does. What in your opinion is the magic amount they should think their labor is worth? And why are we against them trying to improve that amount? [/quote]
Their relative lack of skill (they flip burgers here) is more likely than not worth less than the $7.25 they make.
Their labor is worth what the market will pay for it. [/quote]
Truthfully though, “flipping burgers” or more generally working in the kitchen is harder than it seems. A lot of the work is very dirty and labor intensive. There aren’t high skill requirements, but other people don’t want to do it, specifically people would rather work as cashiers than do the dirty work for the same pay.
In high school I worked at Target in the backroom and we made 2$/hour more than cashiers because our work was more labor intensive; less people wanted to do it in favor of working registers or doing sales floor duty.
I’m not saying minimum wage should be higher. But if all employees in a certain setting have the same wage, and some have harder work than others, I’m not surprised this kind of thing happens
Edit: A better situation would be if minimum wage were actually lower, and the more labor intensive work paid above minimum wage[/quote]
I agree with you’re last line, however saying working in a kitchen is labor is just false. It may be dirty hot work, but that shit is not a labor job, as evidenced by the pay.
Also, where I live 15/hr is what they start SKILLED trade apprentices/greenhorns…[/quote]
Fair enough, cooking itself is not labor, however the people working the kitchen have to clean it up too meaning they’re hauling out all the lard and garbage at the end of the night, cleaning all the appliances and utensils etc. It is more labor intensive than working the register. While not labor intensive, I believe many minimum wage jobs are even LESS labor intensive than working the kitchen, which was the basis of my main point[/quote]
No. I cleaned up puke, beer, liquor, broken bottles, piss, and a bunch of other crap for less than 7$ an hour in a bar as a security man, and for $2.15/hour as a bartender when no security was there. Not only is flipping burgers not labor, it’s not even that gross when you have to clean up in the grand scope of things. Give me the choice between sticking my hand forearm deep in a sink clogged with puke for 30 MINUTES while trying to unclog the U pipe in a bathroom without a ventilator (actually happened)…or cleaning piles of human shit off floors and walls (also true)…& carrying out grease traps, I know exactly what I am choosing.
That said I dont mind your main point, which was that labor intensive jobs should probly be paid slightly more than non intensive jobs in a minimum wage environment. unfortunately that is not applicable because of the fact that the workers are not demanding graded pay, they are demanding doubling of pay for everyone. and in any case I believe that the cashier/drive thru positions are used as incentive in many cases for people who are good employees or on time, due exactly to what you said above (say to experienced workers instead of a raise, “you get the easy job because you’ve been here a while”)[/quote]
That’s fair, i’m not talking about the fast food kitchen vs all other jobs, really i’m just talking about jobs in fast food, since the standard is everyone gets minimum wage and there are no tips, and it was the original topic (in some places, the servers tips are pooled and divided between everyone but thats a whole different discussion).
So yes, of course working in a fast food kitchen is not labor in the sense of “skilled labor” (construction, carpentry, utilities, other trades etc). But the sense I get in this discussion is that anyone who is working in fast food is unskilled or lazy. Which may be true. But every time I go into a fast food restaurant theres 2-3 cashiers near the registers just chillin, not doing anything because there’s no customers but me. But the cooks are still in the kitchen always doing something. And in general my perception has been that in almost every company that deals with customers, people working the front do less work than the people working in the back, and they are often paid the same
For the record I never worked in fast food but I eat it a lot (dirty bulking son) so I have no emotions invested in this. But i’m pretty sure fastfood restrooms get pretty dirty too … shit, piss, used condoms, drug paraphernalia you name it… not vomit so much because there’s no alcohol involved but you get the point
finally all discussions of wages are entirely contingent upon the cost of living in the area in question
[/quote]
Nah I got you mate. Like I said, I pretty much agreed with the main thrust of your post earlier. Although as I said I do believe the cashier jobs are used as incentive in lieu of a raise (keeps overhead down perhaps?) At any rate, we’re both approximately on the same page.
[quote]Aragorn wrote:
[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:
I got you man. Im just saying there a degrees of labor and to call a restaurant job labor is a misnomer. The job may involve labor but it isn’t a labor job. Sorry for nitpicking, I just had this discussion with a friend who said serving drinks is labor…[/quote]
I love you brother and agree with a ton you say, but you and I are gonna disagree on this one. I WILL say that it depends very much on where you serve drinks. I’ve seen a lot of bars where it was a cush job…Buffalo Wild Wings, Olive Garden, higher end bar. Not labor. Not even with a “rush” on the bartender.
But you walk into a bar with 300-500 people in it, lined up 6-10 deep at the bar, all hammered, all wanting drinks at the same time and all causing problems for 6-8 hours straight…that’s a labor job. There are places where it absolutely is a labor job.
I’ve worked concrete jobs, framing, demolition, and still the most tired and SORE that I’ve ever been was at a bar.
I’ll break it down like this: These are actual numbers from my bartending days (I’ve worked security, bar, staff manager, and general operations business manager for 3 locations on 1 staff roll, having kept numbers in my brain from running product and inventory orders)
5 hours
1800 shots (it was something odd like 1864 or something, but rounded down to do easy math)
300 beers, both bottles and imports (rounded down)
~200 mixed drinks (again rounded for easy math)
= 2300 drinks poured in 5 hours. Or approximately 1 drink every 7.6 seconds for 5 hours straight. The vast majority with shots 3 or more ingredients and mixed in rough ratios. With only 2 bartenders. In a place that can only hold about 75 ppl at a time (turnover rate was incredible at that place).
So, while you’re pouring these drinks at that rate, I’d like you to stand with your knees locked out and with your back bent over at 45 degrees. I’d like you to hold this exact position for 5 straight hours, and mix in a few thousand side bends and rotation-reaches with it. Oh–and also please do fractions and decimal multiplication in your head at a rate of between 2-10 times a minute to come up with prices on demand :).
That, my friend, is labor.
Now being completely honest, that was not the busiest day I’ve worked personally at that job, and all the weekends are pretty close to being about like that, albeit a bit slower. The largest bar I ran and bartended at, which could fit about 600 people, literally ran me into a place where I couldn’t walk right for about 2 days afterwards.
I tip people well at franchise (buffalo wild wings, olive garden) and higher end bars (wine bars, very good mixology bars) because I am paying for a drink that takes some skill to make, and I want a well mixed and well made drink. I don’t tip because it’s a “labor job” because it’s not. It’s a nice easy job.
I tip people well at dive bars just pouring beer because I have been that guy, and it blows ass in you don’t know how many ways to stay at a bar for 7 or 8 hours at $2.15 per hour, pour maybe 15 drinks, and get stiffed by all your tickets and go home having earned a whopping 16$ because they are fucking assholes who think you have it easy. Not a labor job, but it sucks ass to sit for that long and get that little.
I tip people well at busy bars–both the dive and the party variety–because I want quick service and I know they are busy and they prioritize their time. I won’t remember your name, maybe not even your face unless you stiff me…in which case I will hold it against you for at least the rest of the night and put you at the TAIL end of everybody, ever (even if I don’t hold it against you for a month depending on how often you come in). But I WILL remember your hand, your jewelry, your shirt, your watch when you stick good money in my jar or in my face. And you better believe you’ll get served first in a rush as long as you keep it up…hell I have called people at the back of a rush 6 deep because they tip. I’ll call you up in front of the line if you’ve treated me well enough. Labor job in many cases, although not all.
So again, I’ll definitely agree there are many places where the bartender is not a labor job by any real means, even in the middle of a “rush”. But there are a good amount of bars where the pace is very stressful both physically and mentally. I would not poo-poo a bartender’s work rate or not tip them, ever (not that you were suggesting that ).
[/quote]
Hahahahaha dude I learned a lot from that response since I’m not a big bar guy. He works at the slowest Applebees in these States. I never thought about a rush or packed bar in a big city like that, but I agree with you. That would definitely be skilled labor work. I tip and all that too, I’ve never worked in the food industry so I don’t have any idea what its like, but those wages just blow so I try to help when I go out…
Also,
“I’ve worked concrete jobs, framing, demolition, and still the most tired and SORE that I’ve ever been was at a bar.”
If you’re ever around the southwest you can come shoe a horse and revise that statement
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]H factor wrote:
Where was I whining about it? Merely pointing out stuff. Everyone was taking it as a guaranteed true gospel that if the lowest paid McDonald’s worker got a raise that prices at McDonald’s had to rise. They don’t anymore than if the highest paid McDonald’s employee gets a rise.
[/quote]
I’m surprised you’re this clueless. Seriously.
A wage increase for one person who receives such based on increased profits and efficiency at the international level is vastly different than one for tens of thousands of entry level employees.
You’ve got to start figuring this stuff out, bud. The fact that you haven’t is a huge indication you’ve never owned and operated a business. Or managed one for that matter.
And yes, you whined when you pointed out the large salary/bonus paid to the CEO.
facepalm
You have no idea what you’re talking about.
Your whining was anti free market. Your ignorance about how a free market works is anti free market, in effect.
Agreed.
Incredulous maybe but not irate. Know your adjectives.
Incredulous that those folks were as clueless as you are apparently about how economics works at the basic level.
Seriously, my libertarian [cough] friend, you don’t know what added value is. Tell us what you do for a living. Tell us what your position at your job is. We’d like to know. You don’t have to reveal any extraordinarily personal details, just let us know where your perspective comes from.
[/quote]
I’m surprised you struggle this much at reading comprehension. If every McDonald’s employee who is currently making minimum wage doubled their salary then McDonald’s would definitely make some changes. It’s ludicrous to talk about this happening as it has no chance of happening. Of COURSE they are aiming high, doesn’t everyone who is attempting to negotiate? However an increase in ANY McDonald’s employee pay whether it be the CEO (which was my fucking point for bringing it up, do try and follow along) or its lowest paid employees does not have to be followed by an increase in the menu price of their items. It was being thrown around like any increase in the wages of a McDonald’s employee had to be followed by an increase in menu prices of the same amount as if they have a positive correlation.
They may. They could. It might. But it certainly doesn’t have to and people using that in their arguments as established gospel was my whole point in comparing the pay of their CEO. But every McDonald’s salary increase is not immediately followed by a price increase to offset that.
You’re failing to see this is essentially what I’ve been saying this entire time…well that and who gives a shit if McDonald’s employees strike.
Now hurry and twist the goalposts around, insert things you want me to think in here, and do all the magic trolly shit you’re known for on this board so you can feel intelligent!
Some news coming from these so-called protests here…
Many of the protesters here are not even fast-food workers, many turned out to be teachers.
What a fucking joke.
[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:
Hahahahaha dude I learned a lot from that response since I’m not a big bar guy. He works at the slowest Applebees in these States. I never thought about a rush or packed bar in a big city like that, but I agree with you. That would definitely be skilled labor work. I tip and all that too, I’ve never worked in the food industry so I don’t have any idea what its like, but those wages just blow so I try to help when I go out…
Also,
“I’ve worked concrete jobs, framing, demolition, and still the most tired and SORE that I’ve ever been was at a bar.”
If you’re ever around the southwest you can come shoe a horse and revise that statement
[/quote]
Haha, it’s all good mate! I learn from your posts too, I at least get one here to help return the help :). It does take a special kind of toll on you to work in food industry. I remember I worked 19 straight hours for St. Patricks Day, all behind the bar and all with only one 15 minute break…all the adderall in the world couldn’t help me by the end of the day. I was a zombie. I honestly couldn’t walk without pain for most of the next week. It honestly is hard to explain to people, so I don’t blame you at all man. Mostly “emotional abuse” you submit to without being able to do anything about it and grovel for tips from assholes.
Not many people get it–not their fault mind you–and that’s why fellow servers/barkeeps/door guys take such good care of each other when in the other person’s “house”. And applebees are cush jobs for a barkeep comparatively speaking as I mentioned lol, so you’re not really wrong there or in a lot of other bars!
Sadly I avoid the southwest on grounds of past very personal memories so there is zero chance I will ever be around, but I do believe you might have a good point there—also I can say without a doubt any outside job would suck soooo much harder in the southwest than in the middle of the country due to it being a million and one degrees (except maybe Texas). My cousins had horses growing up. I miss 'em.
There are many Jobs where people sit or stand on their FAT ASSES that do almost NOTHING and get paid around
15 bucks an hour…A Casino Pit Boss is one of them, I was in that industry, and I know that the job is like
watching fuckin’ paint dry but DAMN it pays well…me thinks fast food workers work ten times as hard, so they
should be paid 12-15 hour…a NEW MC DONALDS opens on Earth somewhere about every 8 hours…you fuckin’
kiddin’ me?
Of course they can pay MUCH more, and those muffin top fat fuck customers can afford to pay a little
more for the most popular and unhealthiest food on the fuckin’ planet…PAY THEM WELL!
[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Some news coming from these so-called protests here…
Many of the protesters here are not even fast-food workers, many turned out to be teachers.
What a fucking joke. [/quote]
That’s pretty ironic. Sounds like they know what line of work their students are going to choose
And FURTHERMORE, The title of this thread is UNFAIR, it’s way more than just ‘flipping burgers’,
it’s hard, intense work a lot of times, especially during Breakfast, Lunch, and Dinner hours and ALOT
of other duties these ‘burger flippers’ need to do to KEEP BUSY.
Most of us here worked at those places before, you can’t tell me you didn’t bust your ass at those
jobs when we were younger…and MORE OLDER people work there now to support their families because mommy
and daddy didn’t live in the cushy wushy Suburbs and had a College fund saved up for their education
and a professional career later.
So, here are our choices:
-
Continue paying minimum wage as its currently valued and have high turn-over in these easily trainable positions.
-
Agree to pay the uneducated and/or teenagers a significant sum for minimal work.
-
Hire illegals who will work for very little and don’t complain.
-
Install automation so that only a supervisor and tech are required, everything else is done electronically.
I somehow feel that this argument won’t result with the lowly worker winning their $15 minimum wage. As it shouldn’t.
[quote]Karado wrote:
And FURTHERMORE, The title of this thread is UNFAIR, it’s way more than just ‘flipping burgers’,
it’s hard, intense work a lot of times, especially during Breakfast, Lunch, and Dinner hours and ALOT
of other duties these ‘burger flippers’ need to do to KEEP BUSY.
Most of us here worked at those places before, you can’t tell me you didn’t bust your ass at those
jobs when we were younger…and MORE OLDER people work there now to support their families because mommy
and daddy didn’t live in the cushy wushy Suburbs and had a College fund saved up for their education
and a professional career later.[/quote]
You know there are a lot of people who didn’t have a college trust fund and live in the cushy wushy suburbs that went to college and do just fine. This type of attitude towards those who have is sickening.
No one is forcing them to work at McDonalds. Go work somewhere else. Learn a trade, go to school before you have kids. I don’t see how that is a company’s issue, if you can’t afford to live on the wages due to your poor decisions.
People don’t eat at McDonald’s because it is cheap. You can buy better quality food, for less, at the supermarket and cook it yourself. People eat there because they are lazy and/or uneducated and/or addicted to crappy food. Occasionally you will have the person who knows better eat there out of some necessity like being on the road but even that can be avoided with proper planning. Whenever I drive by a McDonald’s I want to puke from the smell. To many that smell is inviting.
If wages go up and prices go up will it change anything? Look how much cigarettes have gone up and people still smoke. Lazy fat people will still be lazy fat people so they will get their McDonald’s fix regardless. Poor, uneducated people will still go to McDonald’s because they aren’t spending their own money (as in earned) and eating there in the first place is one reason why they are, and always will be, poor. It’s not like they will be dipping into an IRA or their kid’s college fund.
[quote]Bauber wrote:
[quote]Karado wrote:
And FURTHERMORE, The title of this thread is UNFAIR, it’s way more than just ‘flipping burgers’,
it’s hard, intense work a lot of times, especially during Breakfast, Lunch, and Dinner hours and ALOT
of other duties these ‘burger flippers’ need to do to KEEP BUSY.
Most of us here worked at those places before, you can’t tell me you didn’t bust your ass at those
jobs when we were younger…and MORE OLDER people work there now to support their families because mommy
and daddy didn’t live in the cushy wushy Suburbs and had a College fund saved up for their education
and a professional career later.[/quote]
You know there are a lot of people who didn’t have a college trust fund and live in the cushy wushy suburbs that went to college and do just fine. This type of attitude towards those who have is sickening.
No one is forcing them to work at McDonalds. Go work somewhere else. Learn a trade, go to school before you have kids. I don’t see how that is a company’s issue, if you can’t afford to live on the wages due to your poor decisions.[/quote]
Yup.
I worked as a cook at Friendly’s when I was 16-17, it wasn’t that bad. Mommy and Daddy didn’t pay for my college education either and yet somehow I managed to get one and low and behold I am going back for an advanced degree mostly out of pocket. Who do you think paid for my wife’s two degrees? Ya, we did…Oh and our CPA courses/tests, ya us…Her investment exams, hmmm let me think for a second, ya us…
Excuse me if I don’t cry a river for those that do less than the minimum required to support themselves.
To anyone who worked at a fast food place when younger (myself included): you would not have turned down a raise even if it meant prices would have gone up. You also believed you should have been paid more. You may have accepted the conditions but don’t say you liked them.
I don’t know what a fair wage is, for any job, but I can’t fault anyone for trying to get as much as they can or for believing their work is worth more than what they are getting paid. I’m not some communist after all.
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
To anyone who worked at a fast food place when younger (myself included): you would not have turned down a raise even if it meant prices would have gone up. You also believed you should have been paid more. You may have accepted the conditions but don’t say you liked them.
I don’t know what a fair wage is, for any job, but I can’t fault anyone for trying to get as much as they can or for believing their work is worth more than what they are getting paid. I’m not some communist after all. [/quote]
The most important phrase of your post.
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
work is worth [/quote]
A fast food worker’s work is not worth $15/hr. It’s actually laughable that some people think it is.
[quote]zecarlo wrote:
To anyone who worked at a fast food place when younger (myself included): you would not have turned down a raise even if it meant prices would have gone up. You also believed you should have been paid more. You may have accepted the conditions but don’t say you liked them.
I don’t know what a fair wage is, for any job, but I can’t fault anyone for trying to get as much as they can or for believing their work is worth more than what they are getting paid. I’m not some communist after all. [/quote]
And what did you do?
You went on to bigger and better things no?
Funny how that works, isn’t it.