$15 to Flip a Burger

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
241

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:

[quote]CroatianRage wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:
I don’t see why a minimum wage even exists. If a company isn’t paying enough, don’t take the job. Am I missing something here?[/quote]

Nope. I’m pretty sure all but 2 or 3 people are right there with you.[/quote]

Minimum wage exists to avoid people getting abused by the company. Just as unions were put in place for the same reason. Now, the tables have turned and its the “protecting” items that are abusing the companies/economy.

[/quote]

The tables have not turned , the tables are still stacked against employees . When employees can live on their wages by a standard that is not third world . Then you could make that claim
[/quote]

Did seriously just claim “third world” quality of life for minimum wage workers? Really? minimum wage workers here are fucking kings compared with thrid world poverty.

242

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I would open one and pay my workers $15 if every one had to pay that rate . That is equal footing . No one has an advantage [/quote]

Surely you understand that a $15/hour minimum wage would just make that the equivalent of the current minimum wage, right?

You have to understand that a $15/hour(or any other amount over market value) will either create MORE minimum wage workers(therefore more people at the same standard of living as current minimum wage employees) or be achieved by the printing of more money(AKA one dollar then would not be the same as one dollar now which is not the same as one dollar before minimum wage), right?

Which of the above do you want? Do you want more people to have to live on minimum wage and at a lower standard of living(I’m guessing you won’t come out and say this, but it is indeed what you want), or do you just want everything to have higher numbers? Do you just have some sort of weird fetish for high numbers or something?

243

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]cwill1973 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]cwill1973 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:

[quote]CroatianRage wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:
I don’t see why a minimum wage even exists. If a company isn’t paying enough, don’t take the job. Am I missing something here?[/quote]

Nope. I’m pretty sure all but 2 or 3 people are right there with you.[/quote]

Minimum wage exists to avoid people getting abused by the company. Just as unions were put in place for the same reason. Now, the tables have turned and its the “protecting” items that are abusing the companies/economy.

[/quote]

The tables have not turned , the tables are still stacked against employees . When employees can live on their wages by a standard that is not third world . Then you could make that claim
[/quote]

So why don’t you open up a chain of fast food restaurants that all pay their employees $15/hr or more? For that matter, why haven’t the unions done the same? Why haven’t they started businesses with their billions of dollars that all pay a “living wage” to their employees?
[/quote]

where your disparity occurs is in tax rate . Ma and paw pay a regular 15-20 % rate and Mac Dick or any other major corp probably pays Zero . Waqes are universal [/quote]

Incorrect. In 2012 McDonald’s incurred $2.6 billion in income tax expense on $8 billion of pre-tax income. That is a tax rate of 32%. Feel free to look it up on any financial website. Looks like ma and paw are making out like bandits in your example.
[/quote]

This conversation is over my head and I am guessing yours to . If you do not think our tax code is full of smoke and mirrors than you are more ( ) than I would think .

http://money.usnews.com/money/retirement/slideshows/top-10-corporate-tax-breaks/12

I like the last one it is a tax break for donating to election campaigns thsi is where Corporations legally bride our elected officials and allows them to write it off . And I am sure I will corrected if I am wrong but those write offs come off the top and make the percentage number go up (smoke and mirrors)
[/quote]

Sorry, but reading an income statement is not over my head. It’s there in black and white in every companies quarterly and annual reports. Do you like the one where $8 Billion in union dues go untaxed every year?

244

[quote]cwill1973 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]cwill1973 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]cwill1973 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:

[quote]CroatianRage wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:
I don’t see why a minimum wage even exists. If a company isn’t paying enough, don’t take the job. Am I missing something here?[/quote]

Nope. I’m pretty sure all but 2 or 3 people are right there with you.[/quote]

Minimum wage exists to avoid people getting abused by the company. Just as unions were put in place for the same reason. Now, the tables have turned and its the “protecting” items that are abusing the companies/economy.

[/quote]

The tables have not turned , the tables are still stacked against employees . When employees can live on their wages by a standard that is not third world . Then you could make that claim
[/quote]

So why don’t you open up a chain of fast food restaurants that all pay their employees $15/hr or more? For that matter, why haven’t the unions done the same? Why haven’t they started businesses with their billions of dollars that all pay a “living wage” to their employees?
[/quote]

where your disparity occurs is in tax rate . Ma and paw pay a regular 15-20 % rate and Mac Dick or any other major corp probably pays Zero . Waqes are universal [/quote]

Incorrect. In 2012 McDonald’s incurred $2.6 billion in income tax expense on $8 billion of pre-tax income. That is a tax rate of 32%. Feel free to look it up on any financial website. Looks like ma and paw are making out like bandits in your example.
[/quote]

This conversation is over my head and I am guessing yours to . If you do not think our tax code is full of smoke and mirrors than you are more ( ) than I would think .

http://money.usnews.com/money/retirement/slideshows/top-10-corporate-tax-breaks/12

I like the last one it is a tax break for donating to election campaigns thsi is where Corporations legally bride our elected officials and allows them to write it off . And I am sure I will corrected if I am wrong but those write offs come off the top and make the percentage number go up (smoke and mirrors)
[/quote]

Sorry, but reading an income statement is not over my head. It’s there in black and white in every companies quarterly and annual reports. Do you like the one where $8 Billion in union dues go untaxed every year?
[/quote]

I like it about as much as I like the over 100 billion dollars going untaxed to churches as a non-believer. I’m going to make up a religion so I can skirt property taxes and all sorts of other money. I’ll base it on what everyone else does…a man made book! Genius!

245

[quote]H factor wrote:
I like it about as much as I like the over 100 billion dollars going untaxed to churches as a non-believer. I’m going to make up a religion so I can skirt property taxes and all sorts of other money. I’ll base it on what everyone else does…a man made book! Genius! [/quote]

Exactly how much more money does the government need? I’m all for you getting out of taxes, but I’m also all for churches and everyone/everything else getting out of them.

246

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:
I like it about as much as I like the over 100 billion dollars going untaxed to churches as a non-believer. I’m going to make up a religion so I can skirt property taxes and all sorts of other money. I’ll base it on what everyone else does…a man made book! Genius! [/quote]

Exactly how much more money does the government need? I’m all for you getting out of taxes, but I’m also all for churches and everyone/everything else getting out of them.[/quote]

The government indeed needs less money, was merely pointing out that we have a lot of things “untaxed” in our current setup so focusing on union dues seems a bit strange. I don’t belong to a union nor do I see myself in the future, but if someone wants to I have no problem with that either. Just like striking I view that as an individual’s choice. We don’t have anything remotely resembling a free market anyways so most of the rules and axioms don’t apply.

247

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:
I like it about as much as I like the over 100 billion dollars going untaxed to churches as a non-believer. I’m going to make up a religion so I can skirt property taxes and all sorts of other money. I’ll base it on what everyone else does…a man made book! Genius! [/quote]

Exactly how much more money does the government need? I’m all for you getting out of taxes, but I’m also all for churches and everyone/everything else getting out of them.[/quote]

So you believe non-profitable organizations should be taxed. Talk about sticking it to the poor.

248

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]cwill1973 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]cwill1973 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]cwill1973 wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:

[quote]CroatianRage wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:
I don’t see why a minimum wage even exists. If a company isn’t paying enough, don’t take the job. Am I missing something here?[/quote]

Nope. I’m pretty sure all but 2 or 3 people are right there with you.[/quote]

Minimum wage exists to avoid people getting abused by the company. Just as unions were put in place for the same reason. Now, the tables have turned and its the “protecting” items that are abusing the companies/economy.

[/quote]

The tables have not turned , the tables are still stacked against employees . When employees can live on their wages by a standard that is not third world . Then you could make that claim
[/quote]

So why don’t you open up a chain of fast food restaurants that all pay their employees $15/hr or more? For that matter, why haven’t the unions done the same? Why haven’t they started businesses with their billions of dollars that all pay a “living wage” to their employees?
[/quote]

where your disparity occurs is in tax rate . Ma and paw pay a regular 15-20 % rate and Mac Dick or any other major corp probably pays Zero . Waqes are universal [/quote]

Incorrect. In 2012 McDonald’s incurred $2.6 billion in income tax expense on $8 billion of pre-tax income. That is a tax rate of 32%. Feel free to look it up on any financial website. Looks like ma and paw are making out like bandits in your example.
[/quote]

This conversation is over my head and I am guessing yours to . If you do not think our tax code is full of smoke and mirrors than you are more ( ) than I would think .

http://money.usnews.com/money/retirement/slideshows/top-10-corporate-tax-breaks/12

I like the last one it is a tax break for donating to election campaigns thsi is where Corporations legally bride our elected officials and allows them to write it off . And I am sure I will corrected if I am wrong but those write offs come off the top and make the percentage number go up (smoke and mirrors)
[/quote]

Sorry, but reading an income statement is not over my head. It’s there in black and white in every companies quarterly and annual reports. Do you like the one where $8 Billion in union dues go untaxed every year?
[/quote]

I like it about as much as I like the over 100 billion dollars going untaxed to churches as a non-believer. I’m going to make up a religion so I can skirt property taxes and all sorts of other money. I’ll base it on what everyone else does…a man made book! Genius! [/quote]

Who’s stopping you from starting your own church?

249

Do intelligent people honestly believe that someone deserves $15 an hour for a remedial, no skill job? Those jobs aren’t meant to be your livelihood. They are meant as started jobs, temporary jobs, and to get out into the workforce. If you’re 30 years old and working at McD’s, it better be as a manager, or you’ve got issues.

People do not deserve rewards for performing remedial labor. They don’t deserve a higher pay that closes the gap on folks who did pay for an education or actually graduated highschool. So minimum wage gets increased to $15, does that mean that everyone else’s pay gets raised the difference between the current minimum wage and the $15? Because its only fair. In that case, the cost of everything will also increase to reflect this “nationwide improvement” and everything will remain exactly the same. You just created inflation with no benefit. If you don’t increase everyone else’s pay, just the low skilled laborers, then you just cheated millions of people who actually applied themselves (in varying degrees) to satisfy the lazy. Oh wait, that’s exactly what Liberals/Socialists want to do.

250

[quote]cwill1973 wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:
I like it about as much as I like the over 100 billion dollars going untaxed to churches as a non-believer. I’m going to make up a religion so I can skirt property taxes and all sorts of other money. I’ll base it on what everyone else does…a man made book! Genius! [/quote]

Exactly how much more money does the government need? I’m all for you getting out of taxes, but I’m also all for churches and everyone/everything else getting out of them.[/quote]

So you believe non-profitable organizations should be taxed. Talk about sticking it to the poor.
[/quote]

If you’re responding to me, I have no idea how or why you came to that conclusion from what I said…

251

[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
Do intelligent people honestly believe that someone deserves $15 an hour for a remedial, no skill job? Those jobs aren’t meant to be your livelihood. They are meant as started jobs, temporary jobs, and to get out into the workforce. If you’re 30 years old and working at McD’s, it better be as a manager, or you’ve got issues.

People do not deserve rewards for performing remedial labor. They don’t deserve a higher pay that closes the gap on folks who did pay for an education or actually graduated highschool. So minimum wage gets increased to $15, does that mean that everyone else’s pay gets raised the difference between the current minimum wage and the $15? Because its only fair. In that case, the cost of everything will also increase to reflect this “nationwide improvement” and everything will remain exactly the same. You just created inflation with no benefit. If you don’t increase everyone else’s pay, just the low skilled laborers, then you just cheated millions of people who actually applied themselves (in varying degrees) to satisfy the lazy. Oh wait, that’s exactly what Liberals/Socialists want to do.[/quote]

This is pretty much how I see it

252

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]cwill1973 wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:
I like it about as much as I like the over 100 billion dollars going untaxed to churches as a non-believer. I’m going to make up a religion so I can skirt property taxes and all sorts of other money. I’ll base it on what everyone else does…a man made book! Genius! [/quote]

Exactly how much more money does the government need? I’m all for you getting out of taxes, but I’m also all for churches and everyone/everything else getting out of them.[/quote]

So you believe non-profitable organizations should be taxed. Talk about sticking it to the poor.
[/quote]

If you’re responding to me, I have no idea how or why you came to that conclusion from what I said…[/quote]

That was to HFactor.

253

[quote]cwill1973 wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:
I like it about as much as I like the over 100 billion dollars going untaxed to churches as a non-believer. I’m going to make up a religion so I can skirt property taxes and all sorts of other money. I’ll base it on what everyone else does…a man made book! Genius! [/quote]

Exactly how much more money does the government need? I’m all for you getting out of taxes, but I’m also all for churches and everyone/everything else getting out of them.[/quote]

So you believe non-profitable organizations should be taxed. Talk about sticking it to the poor.
[/quote]

The poor? Might want to browse up on where people like Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, John Hagee, etc live.

I guess that part about it being easier for a camel to enter a needle than a rich man into heaven is just getting skipped by these people.

254

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]cwill1973 wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:
I like it about as much as I like the over 100 billion dollars going untaxed to churches as a non-believer. I’m going to make up a religion so I can skirt property taxes and all sorts of other money. I’ll base it on what everyone else does…a man made book! Genius! [/quote]

Exactly how much more money does the government need? I’m all for you getting out of taxes, but I’m also all for churches and everyone/everything else getting out of them.[/quote]

So you believe non-profitable organizations should be taxed. Talk about sticking it to the poor.
[/quote]

The poor? Might want to browse up on where people like Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, John Hagee, etc live.

I guess that part about it being easier for a camel to enter a needle than a rich man into heaven is just getting skipped by these people. [/quote]

I would agree that being rich merely for the sake of being rich is non biblical. Making money is not non biblical, however. You can’t help those deserving of help if you have nothing yourself to give. There are plenty of CEO’s of secular non profits who make six figures or more as well. Can’t let a few bad apples spoil the whole bunch.

255

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:

[quote]CroatianRage wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:
I don’t see why a minimum wage even exists. If a company isn’t paying enough, don’t take the job. Am I missing something here?[/quote]

Nope. I’m pretty sure all but 2 or 3 people are right there with you.[/quote]

Minimum wage exists to avoid people getting abused by the company. Just as unions were put in place for the same reason. Now, the tables have turned and its the “protecting” items that are abusing the companies/economy.

[/quote]

The tables have not turned , the tables are still stacked against employees . When employees can live on their wages by a standard that is not third world . Then you could make that claim
[/quote]

Did seriously just claim “third world” quality of life for minimum wage workers? Really? minimum wage workers here are fucking kings compared with thrid world poverty. [/quote]

I have already pointed to our homeless problem , we have way too many homeless to act like we are the best in the world

256

I personally believe we will still have a good tier to wages but Minimum Wage is not what the goal is ,it is the $15 and hour . Until recently I have been working for less. I paid good money to get training , the industry used to be BIG UNION but now is not . The industry fucks you around because there are so many people doing what you do , and they are still clamoring there is a shortage .

I heard the other day there is a shortage in Construction workers . I can assure you there isn’t . I will tell you where the shortage lies and that is people willing to do that job for what they are willing to pay (about 1/2 of what they did before the crash)

257

[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
Do intelligent people honestly believe that someone deserves $15 an hour for a remedial, no skill job? Those jobs aren’t meant to be your livelihood. They are meant as started jobs, temporary jobs, and to get out into the workforce. If you’re 30 years old and working at McD’s, it better be as a manager, or you’ve got issues.

People do not deserve rewards for performing remedial labor. They don’t deserve a higher pay that closes the gap on folks who did pay for an education or actually graduated highschool. So minimum wage gets increased to $15, does that mean that everyone else’s pay gets raised the difference between the current minimum wage and the $15? Because its only fair. In that case, the cost of everything will also increase to reflect this “nationwide improvement” and everything will remain exactly the same. You just created inflation with no benefit. If you don’t increase everyone else’s pay, just the low skilled laborers, then you just cheated millions of people who actually applied themselves (in varying degrees) to satisfy the lazy. Oh wait, that’s exactly what Liberals/Socialists want to do.[/quote]

If the cost of living is $30 an hour then so should wages , Government should not have to subsidize Walmart’s and Mickey Dicks employment program . If you employ workers they should make enough to live better than welfare and pay taxes like the rest , nothing short of that is acceptable

258

The Germans have given us wonderful things like BMW, and not very good things like Marx and Hitler.

Some people in here, having even less of an understanding of basic economics than Marx, are making his silly arguments live on, in even more infantile fashion than he made himself. I’d say he was smiling from Hell, but I don’t think Jewish people have Hell to smile from.

259

[quote]H factor wrote:

Don’t bring farmers into this :slight_smile: [/quote]

There are some geo-political reasons for making sure a nation doesn’t go too short on its own agriculture due to comparative or absolute advantage of other nations.

Agriculture subsidies are at least in part a portion of national defense.

260

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]Quasi-Tech wrote:
Do intelligent people honestly believe that someone deserves $15 an hour for a remedial, no skill job? Those jobs aren’t meant to be your livelihood. They are meant as started jobs, temporary jobs, and to get out into the workforce. If you’re 30 years old and working at McD’s, it better be as a manager, or you’ve got issues.

People do not deserve rewards for performing remedial labor. They don’t deserve a higher pay that closes the gap on folks who did pay for an education or actually graduated highschool. So minimum wage gets increased to $15, does that mean that everyone else’s pay gets raised the difference between the current minimum wage and the $15? Because its only fair. In that case, the cost of everything will also increase to reflect this “nationwide improvement” and everything will remain exactly the same. You just created inflation with no benefit. If you don’t increase everyone else’s pay, just the low skilled laborers, then you just cheated millions of people who actually applied themselves (in varying degrees) to satisfy the lazy. Oh wait, that’s exactly what Liberals/Socialists want to do.[/quote]

If the cost of living is $30 an hour then so should wages , Government should not have to subsidize Walmart’s and Mickey Dicks employment program . If you employ workers they should make enough to live better than welfare and pay taxes like the rest , nothing short of that is acceptable [/quote]

I agree that the government should not subsidize people who aren’t willing to do what it takes to make a living themselves. Until someone is working 60 hours a week and still not making it, the government should say sorry, you aren’t working hard enough. If you elect to work minimum wage jobs and pop out children that you cant afford the govt should essentially say to bad, until you have proven that you are doing the best you can. And the best you can is not 20 hrs a week a Mcdonalds. As I said, until you are working 60 or more hours a week, no sympathy should be given.