[quote]Sea-Doo Boy wrote:
Automation will take the place of a fast-food worker demanding a $15/hr wage. Ever seen an automotive assembly plant?
It has already begun with Coca-Cola.
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Not saying that it can’t be done because it totally can be, but automation can be very expensive. To create the customization and repeatablity required to serve complicated orders on demand in a timely fashion would be incredibly complicated and expensive.
This type of expense is accounted for in years and millions of units produced, usually in systems that are running 24/7/365. For a system costing a few million dollars to be profitable, you would have to virtually eliminate all employees and have perfect and uninterrupted production for about 10 years.
…People are too emotionally invested in their libertarian or free market ideals, to realize that they really aren’t in their best interests. I’m not saying government intervention is the best option…
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You have a built in contradiction here, an incongruity.
If you’re “not saying government intervention is the best option,” then the alternative is free market ideals.
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Fair enough but it only works if you had a population that was informed, united and willing to synchronize their buying power with their beliefs.
The alternative only works if you have an enlightened government that could do it right.
Since the chances of both are slim, we find ourselves in this situation, and somethings going to have to give sooner or later.
I had a coworker I had the same discussion with (corporate profits and greed), and he said if he was ruler he would implement strict price control and cap profits. I said if I ran a business, I’d say it wasn’t worth staying in business anymore, and shut down. He replied that he would then accuse me of economic terrorism, throw me in jail, and take my business.
He didn’t see any inconsistency in the fact that he based all his purchases around what was cheapest. When I told him if he wanted to support a less greedy, less cutthroat organization, he would have to pay a little more for his goods, he wasn’t willing to compromise. So the bitching continued about corporate greed, the super rich, while he kept supporting them with his buying buyer.
[quote]Sea-Doo Boy wrote:
Automation will take the place of a fast-food worker demanding a $15/hr wage. Ever seen an automotive assembly plant?
It has already begun with Coca-Cola.
[/quote]
Not saying that it can’t be done because it totally can be, but automation can be very expensive. To create the customization and repeatablity required to serve complicated orders on demand in a timely fashion would be incredibly complicated and expensive.
This type of expense is accounted for in years and millions of units produced, usually in systems that are running 24/7/365. For a system costing a few million dollars to be profitable, you would have to virtually eliminate all employees and have perfect and uninterrupted production for about 10 years.
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Exactly but by increasing wages to $15 they are decreasing the time table on when it becomes more financially beneficial to replace employees with robots.
People like to think they are middle class, but unless you have some significant wealth including property, a large amount of stocks, and a bunch of liquid assets, you are probably not as middle class as you think you are. This is especially true if you are under 30, and even if you have a good job and modest stock holdings, you are losing ground in this economic environment. Even if kids these days do everything right, and get a little lucky, a modest retirement is probably the best they can do, if they are even that lucky. [/quote]
Oh please. You sound like and FDR talking head lol. They said all the same bullshit 100 years ago, and the last 30 years (melt down included) has seen American & almost all “free” modern societies as prosperous as an majority of citizens have ever been in arguably any time in human history.
The poorest American is mega rich compared to the poorest in India…
Look at what comes standard in a Honda today verse 1980…
Things are much better than they were 10, 20, 30 40 and so on years ago.
This is propaganda to fill vote coffers of a certain political party.
lol, no. Please show where law dictates dividends.
More propaganda language.
This is called “keeping costs down” unless you want to pay 10-30% more for everything, companies HAVE to do this. On top of the face people get raises everyday…
Big picture? How so?
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If prosperous today is taking on 4+ dollars of debt for every dollar of economic growth, while still not creating jobs you may be onto something. Somebody is going to have to service that debt, unless the Keynesians are right and it can go on forever, however common sense says no. We are already servicing it, and the next generation will continue to do so.
ZIRP also means whatever money you have saved will not see any near where the rate of return it will have seen in generations past.
Also, you may be confusing technological development with prosperity and in dash GPS and IPADs don’t equal prosperity. Where’s all that stuff made by the way? It’s going to get even worse, when people realize they blew a bunch of their liquid assets on all this technology instead of saving some of it for a rainy day. We’ll see what happens if they ever start the overdue taper.
A lot of people are prospering in this environment, but not the middle class who is suffering a death by 1000 cuts, so much so that even smart people don’t realize its happening.
A minimum wage hike is not the solution, although it does make Obama look good to all the people that voted for him, but something needs to be done to start cutting down on the welfare state, and having the expense of career burger flippers on the balance sheet of the corporations that are actually solvent as opposed to the insolvent central banks and taxpayer funded government is preferable to me.
I’m pretty firmly libertarian, but I also realize that a totally free market and central planning are the two extremes that people throw out to argue without any constructive outcomes. Like most things, a workable solution lies somewhere in the middle.
[quote]Sea-Doo Boy wrote:
Automation will take the place of a fast-food worker demanding a $15/hr wage. Ever seen an automotive assembly plant?
It has already begun with Coca-Cola.
[/quote]
Not saying that it can’t be done because it totally can be, but automation can be very expensive. To create the customization and repeatablity required to serve complicated orders on demand in a timely fashion would be incredibly complicated and expensive.
This type of expense is accounted for in years and millions of units produced, usually in systems that are running 24/7/365. For a system costing a few million dollars to be profitable, you would have to virtually eliminate all employees and have perfect and uninterrupted production for about 10 years.
[/quote]
Exactly but by increasing wages to $15 they are decreasing the time table on when it becomes more financially beneficial to replace employees with robots.
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True, but there are other factors to consider too, like system crashes. Not only is that system not making money, it is costing. Lets say a crash occurs before the lunch time rush (entirely possible too) and the store usually does 3-5K in business during that time. Not only are they not making that money but they are going to get a Whopper of a bill from the technician who fixes it. On staff or on call, that gets costly very quickly. If anybody thinks a plumber is expensive, try calling and automation/robotics specialist.
[quote]Sea-Doo Boy wrote:
Automation will take the place of a fast-food worker demanding a $15/hr wage. Ever seen an automotive assembly plant?
It has already begun with Coca-Cola.
[/quote]
Not saying that it can’t be done because it totally can be, but automation can be very expensive. To create the customization and repeatablity required to serve complicated orders on demand in a timely fashion would be incredibly complicated and expensive.
This type of expense is accounted for in years and millions of units produced, usually in systems that are running 24/7/365. For a system costing a few million dollars to be profitable, you would have to virtually eliminate all employees and have perfect and uninterrupted production for about 10 years.
[/quote]
Touch screen ordering and self service pay kiasks are not too far away from fast food.
[quote]rehanb_bl wrote:
Raising minimum wage hurts no one but the poor, the logic behind it goes against EVERYTHING about economics.
By that logic why not just make it $1000/hour and everyone will be rich… 15 or a 1000 same principle still applies[/quote]
Not really, because then they would just work 2 hours a month and be happy with doubling their income. If these people were motivated to do anything outside of the minimum work requirements society allows they wouldnt be working for the minimum amount of pay legally allowed to give them.
[quote]Sea-Doo Boy wrote:
Automation will take the place of a fast-food worker demanding a $15/hr wage. Ever seen an automotive assembly plant?
It has already begun with Coca-Cola.
[/quote]
Not saying that it can’t be done because it totally can be, but automation can be very expensive. To create the customization and repeatablity required to serve complicated orders on demand in a timely fashion would be incredibly complicated and expensive.
This type of expense is accounted for in years and millions of units produced, usually in systems that are running 24/7/365. For a system costing a few million dollars to be profitable, you would have to virtually eliminate all employees and have perfect and uninterrupted production for about 10 years.
[/quote]
Exactly but by increasing wages to $15 they are decreasing the time table on when it becomes more financially beneficial to replace employees with robots.
[/quote]
True, but there are other factors to consider too, like system crashes. Not only is that system not making money, it is costing. Lets say a crash occurs before the lunch time rush (entirely possible too) and the store usually does 3-5K in business during that time. Not only are they not making that money but they are going to get a Whopper of a bill from the technician who fixes it. On staff or on call, that gets costly very quickly. If anybody thinks a plumber is expensive, try calling and automation/robotics specialist.
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This is true.
I wonder if the dumbasses that are picketing are thinking about this, if wages are raised to $15 an hour to flip a burger, don’t they think that competition for those positions is going to increase drastically. If you don’t come into work and perform exemplary with an excellent attitude, for $15 I will just fire you and find someone who will.
[quote] How will you make enough money to support yourself and your family?
If they give us our raise that we’re supposed to get, then I’ll probably make enough money to feed my family, take care of my household and I might have enough time to find an extra job. But I work five days a week and you canÃ?¢??t get a job on the weekends. I work Monday through Friday. Sometimes I work four days and sometimes they take it down to three. Like next week, I might only have two days.
When you said you work five days a week or 20 or 27 hours �¢?�¦
They don’t let me get all my hours Ã?¢?? one of my managers cuts back my hours and sends me home, and I only get three or four hours a day.
Why does he send you home?
I guess the man doesn’t like me. I mean, I’m not sure. I do everything I’m supposed to do there, and then they turn around and say I have to go home. A couple weeks ago I came in late, and I let him know I came in late. And I didn’t get my whole four good hours. All I got was two hours. And the person that came before me was supposed to go home but he sent me home. The person that came in first should go home, but he sent me home, and I came in late.
How much do you want to make per hour?
I want to make more than $10 an hour. Because I’m the best worker they got there in the morning time. People who’ve been there longer than me come and ask me, and I’ve only been there a year. So I know I’m the strongest they have during the morning time.[/quote]
[quote]Sea-Doo Boy wrote:
Automation will take the place of a fast-food worker demanding a $15/hr wage. Ever seen an automotive assembly plant?
It has already begun with Coca-Cola.
[/quote]
Not saying that it can’t be done because it totally can be, but automation can be very expensive. To create the customization and repeatablity required to serve complicated orders on demand in a timely fashion would be incredibly complicated and expensive.
This type of expense is accounted for in years and millions of units produced, usually in systems that are running 24/7/365. For a system costing a few million dollars to be profitable, you would have to virtually eliminate all employees and have perfect and uninterrupted production for about 10 years.
[/quote]
Touch screen ordering and self service pay kiasks are not too far away from fast food. [/quote]
Jack in the Box’s down here already have the self service pay kiosks.
People will be ordering from a McDonald’s app on their phone within 3 years, I guarantee it. The end user bears the cost of the technology; no million dollar systems or automation techs needed. Some self-service kiosks and a few workers milling around to take orders from elderly patrons and McD has just cut their labor costs by %30.
People live beyound they’re means, to maintain an illusion, and even our lower class, lives better than 80% of the planet, we need to start thinking globaly, Big buisness does.
cjackson25 nice points, but nobody wants to have these discussions, they’d rather have make believe discussions, about cowboys and indians
people are in denial, things are going to get worse before they get beter. People need to start living within they’re means, start worrying about whats important, priority’s, as cjackson25 says, stop worrying about what the people next door have, or think. None of this is bothering me, the economy I mean, my wife and I have a years wages saved, we share a car I bought new in 03, because it still runs good, and I don’t feel the need to impress anyone. No I don’t own a cell phone, even though I have a half a dozzen things on the go, but i’m happy, because I live well within my means, and don’t have debt I can’t afford, I’m not stressed. I go without things, vacations. People need to start thinking this way, times are tuff, and nobody’s comming to save you. We have a generation that thinks the world owes them somthing, get your hands dirty, put half your cheque in the bank each week. You can do it, just go without stuff. I started from nothing 10yrs ago, working minum wage, now I’m the boss, but people expect to much. I hire them, they take a day off each week, than want a raise at the end of the first month. LOL. Anyway I’m getting to personal, and preachy. I’m out of this thread, thanks for the fun
[quote]Dr. Pangloss wrote:
People will be ordering from a McDonald’s app on their phone within 3 years, I guarantee it. The end user bears the cost of the technology; no million dollar systems or automation techs needed. Some self-service kiosks and a few workers milling around to take orders from elderly patrons and McD has just cut their labor costs by %30. [/quote]
Almost all of the supermarkets by me have multiple self checkout areas. Then they have one employee on hand overseeing 4-6 self stations just in case something doesn’t work. Automation at a McDonalds simply in addressing the 4-5 cash registers seems like a no brainer.
[quote]Sea-Doo Boy wrote:
Automation will take the place of a fast-food worker demanding a $15/hr wage. Ever seen an automotive assembly plant?
It has already begun with Coca-Cola.
[/quote]
Not saying that it can’t be done because it totally can be, but automation can be very expensive. To create the customization and repeatablity required to serve complicated orders on demand in a timely fashion would be incredibly complicated and expensive.
This type of expense is accounted for in years and millions of units produced, usually in systems that are running 24/7/365. For a system costing a few million dollars to be profitable, you would have to virtually eliminate all employees and have perfect and uninterrupted production for about 10 years.
[/quote]
Touch screen ordering and self service pay kiasks are not too far away from fast food. [/quote]
Jack in the Box’s down here already have the self service pay kiosks.[/quote]
Yeah, there are a bunch of places with touch screen ordering and self pay features now and I actually like those more than the typical cashier. I don’t think I’ve ever gotten a messed up order from one of those.
The self check out at grocery stores is nice too. They never seem to have lines at them and I can put more than one item in each bag.
If prosperous today is taking on 4+ dollars of debt for every dollar of economic growth, while still not creating jobs you may be onto something. [/quote]
Who is doing this?
Last I checked most large (and small businesses) are in the process of cleaning their balance sheets and hording large amounts of cash, for various reasons.
If you are talking about the government, well nothing new there, hence why the fed is trying to inflate the debt away, at the expense of the taxpayer ultimately.
We are on the same page here, however it doesn’t matter if Key’s was right or not, he won the war, and the general population has grown comfortable with a government that services them to this degree. So… Right or not, it is going to continue.
[quote]
Also, you may be confusing technological development with prosperity and in dash GPS and IPADs don’t equal prosperity.[/quote]
Of course it does, lol. In 1993 you needed a laptop, a video camera, camera, watch, Zack Morris cell phone, Walkman, tapes or CD’s, and a removal storage disk the size of a small car to get the same value you do from an iPhone.
Technological advances are prosperity. It is a better distribution of resources. More value for less resources is prosperity. That value or more value for less cost is prosperity.
Irrelevant really. Not only are the people in these developing countries better off for having these jobs, but it allows people in the developed countries to specialize in other areas. Globalization isn’t going anywhere, and the prospects for it are significantly better than the alternative. Economic windfalls (the earning of resources by a population) are much more attractive to leaders and people than sending a couple hundred thousand boots on the ground to loot for resources.
Standing armies and bloated governments take resources to maintain. For thousands of years those resources were gained by using those armies to “farm” smaller resource rich peoples. With globalization of economic activity we have a new option.
This is no different than has ever been. Why do you think Social Security Insurance was formed in the first place.
None of your concerns here haven’t been voiced for multiple generations now.
Again, FDR & his ilk said the same damn things lol.
“But its different now! I swear!”
Like I pointed out before, it is 6 of 1 half dozen the other.
In any society, free or otherwise, people who lack get propped up by people who don’t. In a freer market this is tolerated because of the prospect of the people being propped up improving their situation. The “laws” of basic economic thought dictate that those people can’t improve their lot without cooperation, which in turn improves someone else. (voluntary exchange and all that…) So on and so forth, multipliers… etc you get the point.
Whether low skilled low wage workers are supported through direct government transfer (welfare) or through government mandated socialization (min wage) the end result (assuming the majority of these people improve their condition eventually) is worth the initial investment in their life by others.
The problem lies if a majority of these people try and make a living out of these jobs for perpetuity…
No rational person would argue this, however, the closer to free market the better, typically.
The problem lies if a majority of these people try and make a living out of these jobs for perpetuity…
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If i can make the same amount (roughly) doing a mindless job as i can doing something stressful, then why the hell not take the easier job… If there is no incentive for excellence when mediocrity is rewarded just the same, what’s the point?
[quote]spiderman739 wrote:
I don’t know if it should be $15 an hour but I think it would have been a good thing if minimum wage had risen to match the rate of inflation.[/quote]
Dont know if this was addressed
BUT REALLY.
Please take an Economics class[/quote]
Too lazy to explain yourself, but not to lazy to post a put down.
