100% Raw Poll

Bigger Stronger Leaner Powerlifting & Strength Sports
21

I don’t know or care what raw or RAW or even 120% RAAAAWWWWWWR is. That said, I think if you want to get back to some reasonable basics, it would be a belt and knee and wrist wraps. Yes, all three help your performance- but come on. It’s not like you see someone miss a 496 beltless, wrapless squat and then smoke a 717 in belt and wraps.

Something I never hear in these “raw” discussions is the role of a singlet- i.e. tightness, material, etc. Take a good look at Scott Weech’s 805 squat at a 100% RAW meet last year. That’s an awesome squat under any conditions. But look at his singlet- kind of looks like it’s biting into his traps and his thighs- kind of looks like an old school squat suit. What distinguishs a a singlet from a light suit? Let’s remove this uncertainty and require a thong or a utili-kilt instead of a singlet.

22

Has powerlifting ever been “raw” anyway?

Like did the old school guys not use every advantage that they could get? I’m nearly certain knee wraps in some form have been used for decades. They were using light weight squat suits in the 80’s, maybe even as early as the 70’s. And lets not forget Hatfield was the first person to not walk a weight out when he got his helpers to pull the racks out of the after he popped it out.

Maybe someone with a better knowledge of PL history will jump in and correct or add to anything I’ve said.

But I think the guys who see themself as being more “pure” and true to the sport because they’re lifting RAAAWWWWWRRRR need a bit of a history lesson.

It would appear competitive powerlifting has always been about pushing to the limits of what you can legally get away with. So if anything the WPO guys are the truest ones out there.

Ohhhh the controversy!! This is gonna be fun to watch…

23

…? look below

24

i am not sure anymore, i thought my thoughts on this stuff was clear for a while, but like i said, i am not sure now.

i think the guy that came up with the “crossfit-total” competitions is on to something.

if you do not know what i am talking about, the cross fit total is a 1 rep max contest for the squat, standing military press, and deadlift.

you can use a belt or wraps, knee sleeves, etc, but if you do, you HAVE to leave all assitive/supportive gear on for the ENTIRE contest.

you cant take them off between lifts, flights, nothing.

this makes some sense to me, if it is so restrictive you cant leave it on without a break, then it is too much.

my very first pl contest, i was 17, did 535, 335, 535. no bench shirt, and i wore a single ply ricky dale crain suit. i left the suit on the ENTIRE MEET. i used it to bench in, and deadlift in. if i had to go take a crap, i could run to the bathroom and take it off myself, do my buisness and then put it back on myself.

that i think is a pretty fair definition of “support” verses “extreme assistance”.

this idea is not without its flaws, as i am sure so many of the big thinkers on this board who seem to major in argument at their repective schoolswill be quick to point out, but it may be a start in the right direction.

25

[quote]robo1 wrote:
Wordwreckin wrote:
Taping your ankle or wrist does not make them stronger.

really? then why wrap them…
[/quote]

The wrist doesn’t lift the weight. But, if your wrist rolls back or you have an old wrist injury, you can’t hold that kinda weight due to pain.

You’re not “loading” a joint to create force to drive the weight. Wrapping your wrists is like wrapping your ankles. I doubt you’ll get 50 lbs outta wrapping your ankles.

Now wrapping your elbows would be JUST like wrapping your knees.

The wrap builds support, but none of the energy in the stretched out wrap can be converted to energy to drive a weight.

26

Raw to me should be nothing. None of my lifts exceed 400 but I only train raw. But the playground is level as long as everyone knows the rules.

27

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1984683658249100304&q=raw+squat+world+record&total=4&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

About 400# less than the equipped record…but 400X more impressive.

28

[quote]grrrsauce wrote:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1984683658249100304&q=raw+squat+world+record&total=4&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

About 400# less than the equipped record…but 400X more impressive.[/quote]

Andy Bolton and Brian Siders could do that with ease. The guys competing in the 100% RAW fed are nowhere near the level of the WPO and especially the IPF/USAPL lifters.

IPF, single ply suit. Adds 100 pounds at BEST!

29

[quote]DLboy wrote:

IPF, single ply suit. Adds 100 pounds at BEST![/quote]

Magnus Onerud gets something like 120kg outta his Metal King IPF squat gear.

30

[quote]DLboy wrote:
IPF, single ply suit. Adds 100 pounds at BEST![/quote]

150 to 200 pounds on the squat seems to be the norm for the more experienced ipf lifters and over 200 pounds of carryover on the bench nowadays. Shirts and suits have come a long way. People need to just accept it for what it is. If you don’t like it, stop whining and compete raw (whatever the definition of that is), nobody is forcing anybody to put on gear.

31

[quote]robo1 wrote:
DLboy wrote:
IPF, single ply suit. Adds 100 pounds at BEST!

150 to 200 pounds on the squat seems to be the norm for the more experienced ipf lifters and over 200 pounds of carryover on the bench nowadays. Shirts and suits have come a long way. People need to just accept it for what it is. If you don’t like it, stop whining and compete raw (whatever the definition of that is), nobody is forcing anybody to put on gear.
[/quote]

why is it when anybody expresses anything but a positive opinion about geared lifting competition, they are “whining”?

dont take somebodies thoughts on what kind of equipment you use to compete in an obscure sport with less of a fan-base than ping-pong or synchronized swimming so dang personal. how you conduct yourselves as a person, with your family, with your career, etc. is something to get personal about.

i think that if more of the bigger feds would have “RAW” divisions, that would give more people the opportunity to compete unequipped, and it would calm a lot of this internet bickering down. more i think about it, i think that is the way it should go. there is about 42 different divisions in your average power meet (full pl, bench only, masters, women, seniors, juniors, teen, police and fire, etc.) why not one more?

32

[quote]heavythrower wrote:
robo1 wrote:
DLboy wrote:
IPF, single ply suit. Adds 100 pounds at BEST!

150 to 200 pounds on the squat seems to be the norm for the more experienced ipf lifters and over 200 pounds of carryover on the bench nowadays. Shirts and suits have come a long way. People need to just accept it for what it is. If you don’t like it, stop whining and compete raw (whatever the definition of that is), nobody is forcing anybody to put on gear.

why is it when anybody expresses anything but a positive opinion about geared lifting competition, they are “whining”?

dont take somebodies thoughts on what kind of equipment you use to compete in an obscure sport with less of a fan-base than ping-pong or synchronized swimming so dang personal. how you conduct yourselves as a person, with your family, with your career, etc. is something to get personal about.

i think that if more of the bigger feds would have “RAW” divisions, that would give more people the opportunity to compete unequipped, and it would calm a lot of this internet bickering down. more i think about it, i think that is the way it should go. there is about 42 different divisions in your average power meet (full pl, bench only, masters, women, seniors, juniors, teen, police and fire, etc.) why not one more?

[/quote]

I just call it like see it man. raw already exists, has existed for years, its nothing new, at least in the U.S. usapl local meets have had raw divisions for a while and the national office is now embracing it as well. aau has had an unequipped division for as long as I can remember. And lately you’ve got 100% RAW, aapf I think recognizes raw numbers and other feds are jumping on board too. plus there’s nothin stopping anyone from going into an equipped meet and competing without the gear. So what’s the problem? I never understood why everybody gets so defensive about one particular type of powerlifting. There are plenty of options out there for people to pick and choose rather than whining about what the next guy is doing. PL is a fractured sport, find a fed you like and ride with it.

33

[quote]heavythrower wrote:

i think that if more of the bigger feds would have “RAW” divisions, that would give more people the opportunity to compete unequipped, and it would calm a lot of this internet bickering down. more i think about it, i think that is the way it should go. there is about 42 different divisions in your average power meet (full pl, bench only, masters, women, seniors, juniors, teen, police and fire, etc.) why not one more?

[/quote]

Not a bad idea. (Personally, I always thought submasters and 40s master classes were ridiculous. Hatfield’s 1003 squat, Goggin’s record-setting 1102, and everything done by Chuck Vogelpohl for the last few years- all done by men in their 40’s. So much for the doddering, past-his-prime, old man theory.)

However, you can go to any meet out there with just a belt, a singlet, t-shirt, and and entry fee. I have seens this a several APF meets and one USAPL meet. Although, at the USAPL meet, the raw-dog guy had his belt disqualified (it was one of those tapered leather belts that are real wide in back). So he and I shared my belt. I always thought that was total fucking joke. Guys were wearing Titan Centurion suits so tight the straps were cutting their traps, but this bubba’s worn-out $10 taper belt was an unfair advantage.

34

[quote]DLboy wrote:

IPF, single ply suit. Adds 100 pounds at BEST![/quote]

I was also talking about the fact I could see his knees. I personally have gotten a 15kg increase from wrapping alone.

35

I have absolutely nothing against the geared lifters and their records.

I just started this poll thinking that if we’re gonna have what they call “100% Raw” then to me it should be truly raw, meaning not even a belt or knee wraps. but it seems that idea is very unpopular.

So now we have the predictable situation where raw lifts are debated: what kinda belt is allowed, or what type of singlet.
why not remove all doubt of assistance, the lifter wears cotton t-shirt, and cotton shorts, that’s it.

36

Wrist wraps, belt, knee wraps, squat suit, bench shirt, deadlift suit, triple ply denim underwear, and a forklift.

37

For me personally I think a raw meet should allow belts and wrist wraps. The main argument for them is that they are adding stability to a joint that is supposed to stay stable. When you cover a joint that is supposed to bend (like the elbow, knee, shoulder, hip) then you can get a big jump in performance. I am surprised that the multi-ply gear meets don’t allow elbow wraps, if the point is simply to lift as much weight as possible.

I don’t think if a non powerlifter watched a person bench 500 with wrist wraps they would say “Oh, he has wrist wraps on, that is cheating” but if you see that a person can’t move normally as they approach the bar and they acknowledge that using a certain type of gear significantly improves performance, then people begin to think it is strange.

I think 100% RAW named itself that way to be clear that it was different from the geared meets and that no gear is allowed. It is not meant to be taken completely literally, otherwise we would lifting nude.

Somebody mentioned something about singlets. Singlets add nothing to a lift, their purpose is to allow the lifts to be more accurately judged. Baggy T-shirts and shorts make judging the squat and the bench press more difficult.

38

Thanks for posting that Raw Squat video…great stuff.

39

How come no one has ever questioned the wearing of shoes? Real men lift in bare feet unlike those weak guys who compete in SHOES! Hell, the only way to see if a guy is strong is to find out what he can do totally naked!

40

My opinion is that PURE RAW is dangerous. You have a MUCH higher risk of injury, which is why most powerlifters only lift max effort weight in gear-usually full gear-