[quote]Beowolf wrote:
Gkhan wrote:
Why not, everyone blames America for every evil in the world, yet it’s just a select few in office who actually have the power to use our armed forces.
If the excuse works for Muslims, why not Americans?
Er… because that would be incredibly hypocritical A. And B, they don’t blame America, they blame its government.[/quote]
He’s got a point.
Any so called “anti-America activists” I have met (bar EXTREMISTS) have said that they dislike American current foreign policy (initiated by the gov) not AMERICANS.
[quote]swissrugby67 wrote:
hedo wrote:
The turning point came on 9-11. You attacked an enemy with the ability to respond and the nerve to do so. Even your idol Osamma has realized how big a mistake that was.
Are you serious?
You can’t possibly pin the blame on a whole following/nation/population if the perpetrators were a select few.
To then say that they all idolize them is ignorance at its best.
[/quote]
I didn’t say “they” I said Lixy and it was meant to mock his shameless justification of terrorism as legitimate resistance because that is “all they are able to do” to fight oppression. A common theme in his posts.
Al-Queda and it’s supporters have suffered many unintended consequences due to the 9-11 attacks. To support Al-Queda now is an open invitation for retaliation. That was intended. It is a silly misconception that the attacker sets the level of retaliation. That would be ignorance at it’s worst.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Why not, everyone blames America for every evil in the world, yet it’s just a select few in office who actually have the power to use our armed forces.
If the excuse works for Muslims, why not Americans?[/quote]
It does. As long as you distance yourself from the “select few” and their hegemonic agenda, there’s not much anyone can say about you. Notice that nobody has any beef whatsoever with the Americans who actually denounce US’ interventionism.
I know Americans who exiled themselves just because they didn’t want crimes committed in their names and on their dime. Obviously, that’s not something everybody can afford. I applaud them, but I hold no grudge against the ones who stay home and, against overwhelming odds, try to make their voices heard.
I never voted for any of the criminal crackheads and I sure as hell don’t give them any money. So, the excuse (as you call it) works better for Muslims. It doesn’t mean that Americans can’t use it. They do. All the time. Take a look around and you’ll see heaps of people who are actively disassociating themselves from American foreign policy.
But you can’t have the cake and eat it too. A person as convinced of America’s right to meddle with every state and its duty to spread “freedom” and “democracy” can’t possibly expect to have it both ways. Denounce the Iraq war on principles (none of that “poor execution” crap) and I can promise you that nobody will associate you with anything. And oh, vote Ron Paul.
[quote]swissrugby67 wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Gkhan wrote:
Why not, everyone blames America for every evil in the world, yet it’s just a select few in office who actually have the power to use our armed forces.
If the excuse works for Muslims, why not Americans?
Er… because that would be incredibly hypocritical A. And B, they don’t blame America, they blame its government.
He’s got a point.
Any so called “anti-America activists” I have met (bar EXTREMISTS) have said that they dislike American current foreign policy (initiated by the gov) not AMERICANS. [/quote]
Then I am correct. People like Bin Laden and Lixy, who hate and blame AMERICANS for the war in Iraq because we have the ability to vote and are obligated to pay taxes are the real hypocrites.
-edit. Typo! That’s “are”. I hope they didn’t eat the real hypocrites! Damn!
[quote]lixy wrote:
I never voted for any of the criminal crackheads and I sure as hell don’t give them any money. [/quote]
Iran is a democracy, so someone voted for it’s hard line leaders and gave it’s government money. Iran supports worldwide Islamic revolution. A vote for the hardliners in Iran, and support for their government to export this revolution across the globe, is a vote for terrorism and terrorists.
That means 65% of christians in usa are breaking atleast one deadly sin.
65% of your people are violating a deadly sin. What do you have to say about that. I doubt theres 153 Million muslims u can say the same about.
Before attacking another religion, get ur facts straight… I’ve read lixy’s posts, and now hes not the only one defending islam on this forum.
LMFAO! Well I’m glad you’re here to defend Islam. I wouldn’t want you on “my” side. Carry on.
Cut the guy some slack, will you? Ahzaz’s 14.[/quote]
Very well. “Ahzaz, I am very sorry for laughing at your post. Forgive me.” Now, can we get back to the discussion? Lixy, in case you missed it, I did ask you two questions above.
[quote]lixy wrote:
pat wrote:
This post right here exemplified exactly what the problems are.
Do tell…
First, Islam doesn’t need PR,
Given that there are organized movements dedicated to demonizing Islam, I’ll say that developing some PR wouldn’t hurt the image of Islam.
If muslims behaved like peace-loving individuals, no “PR machine” would be necessary.
That is true. But sitting down and praying that Ben-Laden and his crew will stop butchering people is not going to do much. That is why I believe some semblance of unity and PR skills might actually do some good.
[/quote]
Sounds like a crisis in faith. Don’t you believe God can stop it and that he listens to your prayers?
Secondly, the rest of the world would be much happier if all muslims prayed rather than commit acts of violence.
Ignorance? What, the tremendous amount of violence committed by muslims in the name of islam isn’t really happened and didn’t really happen? So there really hasn’t been over 10,000 lethal acts of violence commited by muslims in the name of islam world wide since 9/11/2001?
Or did the atrocities at Abu Ghraib some how justify all those innocent people being killed because their very existence offends Allah?
You’re drawing the insinuation yourself…If I were talking about you specifically, I would have called you by name, I am not subtle. I called you out for passing the blame and condoning the actions of the violent ones because of U.S. foreign policy or Zionism. Take your pick. I certainly don’t think you are responsible, but you seem to turn a blind eye to it too often.
And THAT, in a nut shell proves exactly what I am talking about. Hide your head in the sand. Islam just has a bad rap, that’s all.If you think the only problem islam has is it’s rep; hell it’s really just sad.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Take a look around and you’ll see heaps of people who are actively disassociating themselves from American foreign policy.
[/quote]
Sounds like you are talking out of both sides of your mouth. On one hand, the American people are to blame for the war on Iraq because they voted for Bush, though many did not, and because we pay taxes we are all guilty from doing so. That is your logic stated in many posts and also Bin laden’s logic for attacking Americans.
Yet you say in the quote above that “heaps of people are actively disassociating themselves from American foreign policy” so how can these people be blamed by you and Bin Laden for paying taxes? They do not have to support the war or even support Bush, yet the very act of paying taxes makes them compliant in your eyes, right?
I think that is a cop out to justify the deaths of innocent civilians by Islamic militants and a load of crap.
Denounce that frame of thought and maybe we can have a dialogue that will mean something.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
lixy wrote:
I never voted for any of the criminal crackheads and I sure as hell don’t give them any money.
Iran is a democracy, so someone voted for it’s hard line leaders and gave it’s government money. Iran supports worldwide Islamic revolution. A vote for the hardliners in Iran, and support for their government to export this revolution across the globe, is a vote for terrorism and terrorists.[/quote]
This has got to be sarcasm, but I can’t find the punchline.
Lixy’s in Sweden, not Iran. So… he probably didn’t vote in the Iranian elections.
Iran isn’t much of a democracy. The Ayatollah barred almost 3000 parliamentary candidates from running because they were moderates. Those in Iran that did vote voted for hardliners because theres no other choice. Many didn’t vote at all.
Certain news broadcasters offer, IMO, a larger and more objective scope of reports. These include but is not limited to BBC (In no way privatized) Euronews, CNN and even AlJazeera International. Personally newspaper wise the Herald Tribune, Washington Post and FT are great sources.
I just find other sources to be much less . . . objective.
[quote]swissrugby67 wrote:
pat wrote:
Yeah, it’s just a PR issue…
Shit like this…
has nothing to do with islam’s global image problem.
LOL!!!
Fox news should never be used as a source for information.
Websites and so called “news stations” like that promote biased opinions on various subjects (Islam, War, The Economy etc).
They have their own agenda that can most certainly always be linked to money.
[/quote]
Are you 14 as well? Do you have any evidence that the story is false simply because it is on the Fox News website? Actually do you have any proof at all that any of the the news items are false? Or are you just turned off by the opinion pieces which are clearly labeled as such and not presented as news?
Certain news broadcasters offer, IMO, a larger and more objective scope of reports. These include but is not limited to BBC (In no way privatized) Euronews, CNN and even AlJazeera International. Personally newspaper wise the Herald Tribune, Washington Post and FT are great sources.
I just find other sources to be much less . . . objective.
[/quote]
Al Jazeera? You have got to be kidding me…The same people who at one time stated the Tsunami was a nuclear explosion in the Indian ocean cause by a joint effort between Israel and the U.S…
LOL!!!
I can’t stop laughing…
Certain news broadcasters offer, IMO, a larger and more objective scope of reports. These include but is not limited to BBC (In no way privatized) Euronews, CNN and even AlJazeera International. Personally newspaper wise the Herald Tribune, Washington Post and FT are great sources.
I just find other sources to be much less . . . objective.
Al Jazeera? You have got to be kidding me…The same people who at one time stated the Tsunami was a nuclear explosion in the Indian ocean cause by a joint effort between Israel and the U.S…
LOL!!!
I can’t stop laughing…[/quote]