While I hate canned lines and pre meditated routines, I guess they can serve as crutches?
What is wrong with crutches if you need them?
The whole point is to grow beyond them?
Its not that easy anyway, because we all have some routines we use over and over again.
Whats wrong with choosing those routines deliberately?
[quote]Chushin wrote:
So, Orion.
How is your sex by coercion going?[/quote]
Coercion is the thing where the other party has no choice you cross thread aggressing bastard, no?
[quote]orion wrote:
While I hate canned lines and pre meditated routines, I guess they can serve as crutches?
What is wrong with crutches if you need them?
The whole point is to grow beyond them?
Its not that easy anyway, because we all have some routines we use over and over again.
Whats wrong with choosing those routines deliberately?
[/quote]
Crutches are so easy to get attached to, and easy to rely on (leading to some people never developing skills beyond them). It teaches you to try to put canned material in to a dynamic human interaction. Can it work? Yes but it is in no way what you want to be doing.
And yes the point is to out grow the ācrutchā but here we have the āmasterā telling people to be true to them selves in one situation and then to blatantly lie and be false to start an interaction. It reeks of insecurity.
[quote]enigma666 wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
While I hate canned lines and pre meditated routines, I guess they can serve as crutches?
What is wrong with crutches if you need them?
The whole point is to grow beyond them?
Its not that easy anyway, because we all have some routines we use over and over again.
Whats wrong with choosing those routines deliberately?
[/quote]
Crutches are so easy to get attached to, and easy to rely on (leading to some people never developing skills beyond them). It teaches you to try to put canned material in to a dynamic human interaction. Can it work? Yes but it is in no way what you want to be doing.
And yes the point is to out grow the ācrutchā but here we have the āmasterā telling people to be true to them selves in one situation and then to blatantly lie and be false to start an interaction. It reeks of insecurity. [/quote]
Can you not be true to yourself and use tools?
Your hominid ancestors might be dissappointed to hear that, they wrestled with that for a few hundred thousand years, at the very least!
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]seph89 wrote:
Back on topic folks!
The Fortune Teller's Gift - Live in the Future - YouTube [/quote]
Is this a joke?
A man who needs to disfigure himself like that, recycling 1960 hippie philosophy, and MEN actually admire and emulate him?
If I felt I needed to follow someone like this, I think Iād just have a good friend take me out and put a bullet in my head.
Well, not really, but, really???[/quote]
LMFAO!
I just watched the first 60 seconds of that video. You guys know heās gay right? Youāre not really following the teachings of a gay guy on how to pick up chicks are you? Seriously??
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]enigma666 wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
While I hate canned lines and pre meditated routines, I guess they can serve as crutches?
What is wrong with crutches if you need them?
The whole point is to grow beyond them?
Its not that easy anyway, because we all have some routines we use over and over again.
Whats wrong with choosing those routines deliberately?
[/quote]
Crutches are so easy to get attached to, and easy to rely on (leading to some people never developing skills beyond them). It teaches you to try to put canned material in to a dynamic human interaction. Can it work? Yes but it is in no way what you want to be doing.
And yes the point is to out grow the ācrutchā but here we have the āmasterā telling people to be true to them selves in one situation and then to blatantly lie and be false to start an interaction. It reeks of insecurity. [/quote]
Can you not be true to yourself and use tools?
Your hominid ancestors might be dissappointed to hear that, they wrestled with that for a few hundred thousand years, at the very least![/quote]
Point of the post was that if you are going to teach someone you do not teach them ācrutchesā because they are so easy to fall back and rely on them and then have no real skill or mastery of the subject. You do not teach reliance on canned material and fake phone call crutches. You teach them how to deal with a dynamic situation and leave the static canned bull shit behind.
The true to your self line was in reference to not having the confidence to talk to a girl and needing some stupid little phone bull shit trick.
Walk up to her ask her a question, hell just be honest and tell her you are wondering what her personality is like(obviously all the things like donāt be creepy and donāt be an over bearing needy guy trying to hit on her, ect, ect.), rather than basically starting an interaction out with a lie, people only lie when they are afraid or trying to manipulate.
So its either fear or trying to manipulate from the very first interaction, and that rarely if ever turns out well.
What a load of tosh.
Had several very āsingleā times in my life, pulled a ton of girls, ran multiple casual relationships, had some fun. However what no one tells you (least of all PUA āguruāsā because they want to make money from you) are some simple facts.
First and foremost, too much choice is almost certainly bad for you and leads to a feeling of general disatisfaction with the present
http://www.ted.com/talks/barry_schwartz_on_the_paradox_of_choice.html
Not only that multiple girl management is eventually a pain in the ass and tiresome if you want to achieve significant other stuff in your life whilst holding down a steady job - āohh look at me Iāve got girls coming round to have sex with me arenāt I great??ā Er no, I happen to know that its not that difficult really, try getting good at a musical instrument or a sport, or just being the kind of person people actually want to hang out with - thats actually noteworthy and will be something to take forward in your life and look back on in the future.
You canāt ever fully relax with multiple girl friends because no matter how comfortable it all seems no-one really wants to know whats happening with the other partners. Most girls donāt want to sleep in a bed that smells of a different girl. I mean literally changing and washing the sheets becomes a pain. If you really want to get some stuff done in this life its so much easier with one supportive partner. You can switch off and totally relax to recharge yourself before getting back to the serious business of carving out an interesting life that you will feel proud of.
Hell if you want some magic polyamorous lifestyle, take up swinging and save yourself a heap of work trying to convince reluctant women to adopt something you want they donāt.
Ultimately there is something faintly sociopathic about the accumulation of sexual experiences for the purposes of demonstrating to other men(!!) that you are somehow more alpha than them - talk about being needy.
Iāll leave you with this semi-classic meltdown piece by a former PUA guru which says a lot of relevant things about the PUA industry and the goals of certain people on this threadā¦
zentransformation.blogspot.co.uk/2008/05/falling-feels-like-flying-on-way-down.html
[quote]sharp987 wrote:
What a load of tosh.
Had several very āsingleā times in my life, pulled a ton of girls, ran multiple casual relationships, had some fun. However what no one tells you (least of all PUA āguruāsā because they want to make money from you) are some simple facts.
First and foremost, too much choice is almost certainly bad for you and leads to a feeling of general disatisfaction with the present
http://www.ted.com/talks/barry_schwartz_on_the_paradox_of_choice.html
Not only that multiple girl management is eventually a pain in the ass and tiresome if you want to achieve significant other stuff in your life whilst holding down a steady job - āohh look at me Iāve got girls coming round to have sex with me arenāt I great??ā Er no, I happen to know that its not that difficult really, try getting good at a musical instrument or a sport, or just being the kind of person people actually want to hang out with - thats actually noteworthy and will be something to take forward in your life and look back on in the future.
You canāt ever fully relax with multiple girl friends because no matter how comfortable it all seems no-one really wants to know whats happening with the other partners. Most girls donāt want to sleep in a bed that smells of a different girl. I mean literally changing and washing the sheets becomes a pain. If you really want to get some stuff done in this life its so much easier with one supportive partner. You can switch off and totally relax to recharge yourself before getting back to the serious business of carving out an interesting life that you will feel proud of.
Hell if you want some magic polyamorous lifestyle, take up swinging and save yourself a heap of work trying to convince reluctant women to adopt something you want they donāt.
Ultimately there is something faintly sociopathic about the accumulation of sexual experiences for the purposes of demonstrating to other men(!!) that you are somehow more alpha than them - talk about being needy.
Iāll leave you with this semi-classic meltdown piece by a former PUA guru which says a lot of relevant things about the PUA industry and the goals of certain people on this threadā¦
zentransformation.blogspot.co.uk/2008/05/falling-feels-like-flying-on-way-down.html[/quote]
Yes and yes and yes.
But, so?
The alternative would look like what exactly.
So he is able to pull insanely hot women, but it bores him?
That is way better than the alternative.
It just sounds like someone who is looking for the āreal thingā and is floored that there is no such thing.
Yes, its real, yes they all react to it, AND YES, like with money, or with training or with anything really, if you understand something so completely that you hit homeruns consistently, the magic is gone.
It is a sad irony of life that if you understand someting thoroughly, you no longer appreciate it really.
What else is there but illusions that will come back to get you eventually?
[quote]orion wrote:
Yes and yes and yes.
But, so?
The alternative would look like what exactly.
So he is able to pull insanely hot women, but it bores him?
That is way better than the alternative.
It just sounds like someone who is looking for the āreal thingā and is floored that there is no such thing.
Yes, its real, yes they all react to it, AND YES, like with money, or with training or with anything really, if you understand something so completely that you hit homeruns consistently, the magic is gone.
It is a sad irony of life that if you understand someting thoroughly, you no longer appreciate it really.
What else is there but illusions that will come back to get you eventually?[/quote]
But there are options, its not as simple as either you are a āPUAā and bang a different chick evrey night or you are a looser who will never get laid.
Its possible to have the ability to get girls with out it becoming your one goal and drive in life, and its called having a balanced normal life.
I could expand on this post more but honestly I am getting a little bored of this thread.
But hey Orion thanks for actually debating people (unlike the OP),instead of being either to insecure on his stand or to ignorant to do it.
Humans will be humans, hope evrey one has fun with their own views.
[quote]enigma666 wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
Yes and yes and yes.
But, so?
The alternative would look like what exactly.
So he is able to pull insanely hot women, but it bores him?
That is way better than the alternative.
It just sounds like someone who is looking for the āreal thingā and is floored that there is no such thing.
Yes, its real, yes they all react to it, AND YES, like with money, or with training or with anything really, if you understand something so completely that you hit homeruns consistently, the magic is gone.
It is a sad irony of life that if you understand someting thoroughly, you no longer appreciate it really.
What else is there but illusions that will come back to get you eventually?[/quote]
But there are options, its not as simple as either you are a āPUAā and bang a different chick evrey night or you are a looser who will never get laid.
Its possible to have the ability to get girls with out it becoming your one goal and drive in life, and its called having a balanced normal life.
I could expand on this post more but honestly I am getting a little bored of this thread.
But hey Orion thanks for actually debating people (unlike the OP),instead of being either to insecure on his stand or to ignorant to do it.
Humans will be humans, hope evrey one has fun with their own views.[/quote]
Here is the thing, whether you want to go for quality or quantity, you first have to get it.
Once you do it kind of stays āgotā.
Whatever it is you want out of this, you will not escape the predicability.
[quote]sharp987 wrote:
What a load of tosh.
Had several very āsingleā times in my life, pulled a ton of girls, ran multiple casual relationships, had some fun. However what no one tells you (least of all PUA āguruāsā because they want to make money from you) are some simple facts.
First and foremost, too much choice is almost certainly bad for you and leads to a feeling of general disatisfaction with the present
http://www.ted.com/talks/barry_schwartz_on_the_paradox_of_choice.html
Not only that multiple girl management is eventually a pain in the ass and tiresome if you want to achieve significant other stuff in your life whilst holding down a steady job - āohh look at me Iāve got girls coming round to have sex with me arenāt I great??ā Er no, I happen to know that its not that difficult really, try getting good at a musical instrument or a sport, or just being the kind of person people actually want to hang out with - thats actually noteworthy and will be something to take forward in your life and look back on in the future.
You canāt ever fully relax with multiple girl friends because no matter how comfortable it all seems no-one really wants to know whats happening with the other partners. Most girls donāt want to sleep in a bed that smells of a different girl. I mean literally changing and washing the sheets becomes a pain. If you really want to get some stuff done in this life its so much easier with one supportive partner. You can switch off and totally relax to recharge yourself before getting back to the serious business of carving out an interesting life that you will feel proud of.
Hell if you want some magic polyamorous lifestyle, take up swinging and save yourself a heap of work trying to convince reluctant women to adopt something you want they donāt.
Ultimately there is something faintly sociopathic about the accumulation of sexual experiences for the purposes of demonstrating to other men(!!) that you are somehow more alpha than them - talk about being needy.
Iāll leave you with this semi-classic meltdown piece by a former PUA guru which says a lot of relevant things about the PUA industry and the goals of certain people on this threadā¦
zentransformation.blogspot.co.uk/2008/05/falling-feels-like-flying-on-way-down.html[/quote]
Those were good reads, both your post, sharp987, and the blog post.
[quote]enigma666 wrote:
Point of the post was that if you are going to teach someone you do not teach them ācrutchesā because they are so easy to fall back and rely on them and then have no real skill or mastery of the subject. You do not teach reliance on canned material and fake phone call crutches. You teach them how to deal with a dynamic situation and leave the static canned bull shit behind.
The true to your self line was in reference to not having the confidence to talk to a girl and needing some stupid little phone bull shit trick.
Walk up to her ask her a question, hell just be honest and tell her you are wondering what her personality is like(obviously all the things like donāt be creepy and donāt be an over bearing needy guy trying to hit on her, ect, ect.), rather than basically starting an interaction out with a lie, people only lie when they are afraid or trying to manipulate.
So its either fear or trying to manipulate from the very first interaction, and that rarely if ever turns out well.
[/quote]
I have a bit of a bone to pick with this. If we were discussing learning to play a musical instrument, to dance, to fight, or compete in a sport, I think we would agree that the foundation for mastery is repetition of basic skills over a long period of time, until they become automatic. As one progresses and masters whatever skill, one is able to respond appropriately in the moment, adjust to changing circumstances, and devise novel ways of approaching obstacles.
To me, learning scripts is a bit like learning basic chord changes or the box step; you have to start somewhere, and this kind of rote instruction establishes some kind of predictability in a complex process. They can only, at best, be a starting point; after all, no one gets a girlfriend (or even laid) by mindlessly firing off one script after another. If that were how people interacted, artificial intelligence would be much further along than it is.
If I wanted to argue with the routines, I probably wouldnāt quibble with their lack of authenticity; most people, if they find a successful pattern of behavior, will repeat variations of the same behavior over and over again. I think I would contend that a different set of basic skills would be more appropriate. But then, we would have to get into an argument about direct game, indirect game, and the particular approaches each teacher promotes. That might be a worthy discussion, but it canāt really be held in the abstract.
[quote]sharp987 wrote:
Ultimately there is something faintly sociopathic about the accumulation of sexual experiences for the purposes of demonstrating to other men(!!) that you are somehow more alpha than them - talk about being needy.
[/quote]
Iāll just say that I understand the motivation to accumulate sexual experiences so that when one finally commits, one feels one has made an informed choice. That may be an irrational and insecure view, especially if it is intensified by the idea that oneās partner has had many sexual partners. But there it is. Imbalances can be toxic.
[quote]nephorm wrote:
If I wanted to argue with the routines, I probably wouldnāt quibble with their lack of authenticity; most people, if they find a successful pattern of behavior, will repeat variations of the same behavior over and over again. I think I would contend that a different set of basic skills would be more appropriate. But then, we would have to get into an argument about direct game, indirect game, and the particular approaches each teacher promotes. That might be a worthy discussion, but it canāt really be held in the abstract.[/quote]
I would say inner game and direct approaches.
What is seriously overlooked by most people is that bedding women costs time and money.
She might as well make up her mind quickly and you can force her to.
This whole Niceguy ā¢ courting process is just such a gigantic waste of time and ends in the friend zone more often than not.
If you are a stickler for numbers though, that lowers your batting average.
mares eat oats, and does eat oats, and little boys eat ivy~
Just revisited this account after all these years.
God I was so cringe and WRONG back thenā¦ smh
Thatās growth for ya lol