#1 Seduction Artist in the World 2012 - Arash Dibazar

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[quote]nephorm wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
Well, have you seen the link I posted in another thread that a whopping 30% of all college kids seem to range very high when it comes to narcissism?

That is a bit more than “some”.

Combine that with ever growing excpectations when it comes to their partners the more they have achieved and a divorce law that in essence is very tilted to favor women and you got a perfect storm on your hands.

Would you really like stand in a courtroom with a woman that has no problem whatsover to lie or cheat to get her way, that is utterly unable to feel empathy and just so happens to hold your children hostage?

Its not paranoia if its true. [/quote]

It is easy to be a misogynist when I think of women in the abstract, and start drawing conclusions from there. Yet, when I think of actual women I know in my life, I can’t think of many who were utterly unable to feel empathy. I know selfish people who still feel empathy, and respond to the immediate pain of others. I know people who get angry and say things they don’t mean, but feel bad about it later. And I know people who put others’ needs ahead of their own, at least some of the time, even if it isn’t always to their planned benefit. The only people I know who exhibited the kind of psychopathic behavior you describe were kids, and most of them had grown beyond it by the end of high school. Be bitter for a while if you have to be to get over your past trauma. Ultimately, however, the onus is on you to move on with your life and stop blaming others for your pain. Misogyny is a crutch.

[/quote]

Not necessarily, you can completely understand women and reject them as a whole.

The whole MGTOW thing is exactly that.

Though this is called misogyny, an accusation that I like to play with, yes, is really not true for them, they simply dont care anymore, those are the “Ill be poolside” fellows. They dont care about women, they dont care about society, they really, truly do not give a fuck.

Personnaly, I get why women do not get it that some men have been so burned that they do not give a rats ass about them, what I do not get why men dont get it.

The general assumption is that you must, must, must desire women, and if you claim that you dont you are either bitter, or a loser or you cant get laid, when in reality what Roosh posted is true, it is usually success with women that disillusions you, not the lack of it.

If you desire women and think them innocent angels that bestow their blessings on “assholes” you are asking yourself constantly what is wrong about yourself, if you discover game and realize that they indeed react strongly to even the most rudimentary applications of it, you suddenly understand them and then you ask yourself what is wrong about them.

I dont think I can convey how eery it is, if you can explain to a woman from A to B how you did it and then watch her making all kinds of rationalizations for why she practically jumped and when you know it to be 100% true that 2 years prior she would not even have noticed your existence.

I dont know what it is, maybe its because they are completely unable to concede that any man could navigate a social situation better than they themselves, maybe they are unwilling to concede that the “female mystique” has been decoded in just ten years by some semie-aspie nerds, but the complete and utter lack of introspection is neither attractive nor worthy of respect.

It is childish and if you treat a woman like your spoiled rotten little sister you get the hardest cases wet.

So, to paraphrase myself, its not misogyny if its true.

Not quite true., because it still would be, but not an unjustified one.

Maybe you should be open to the idea that “misogynists” have it exactly right and that the way woman are normally seen in our society is nothing but an historic, self-correcting abberration.

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[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:

He doesn’t need to be some sort of negging asshole to make me “tingle.” Just the opposite, because I deserve and expect better. [/quote]

I dont think you understand the concept of “negging” at all.

There is a video out there about some PUA who tells a girl at a club “you are a whore! A whore! A white trash whore!”

I know what that reads like, but in that specific situation it was hilarious and she almost loses control of her bladder because she laughs so hard.

You can see a “neg” in action, I posted one above.

Do you honestly think she was insulted?

No, she was amused.

The second thing is, you dont go around with your little playbook and deliver some prefabricated lines, the moment you internalized that ITS OK, you just are.

That is the moment that women who think that game does not work are utterly unable to believe that you ever were and behaved differently.

It just does not compute for them.[/quote]

I understand it completely. You underestimate my willingness to read Neil Strauss, et al, and to watch the videos. This stuff fascinates me and has since I encountered it here in 2007. (Neph! So happy to see you.)

Negging mimics familiarity and teasing. It short-cuts women to a more comfortable place. The whole PUA philosophy is about mimicry, about mimicking a confident, self-contained male. However, water finds its level, so what you achieve with this is probably either an emotionally immature woman (because of having been sheltered or because damage of some sort prevented age-appropriate emotional development) or a woman who is similarly presenting a facade.

I get teased, too, by the people who know me. There is a hierarchy of teasing, with my family at the top, boyfriend next, and closest friends following. My ex-husband does not tease me any longer, but will laugh and join in if I self-deprecate. Men I know socially probably don’t go there, as that’s boyfriend territory. Coworkers maybe, work-specific teasing.

Same with the kinos. Short cutting.

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Holy Shit! Hey everybody, Nephorms back!

Things are looking up in this depressing ass thread.

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I know, I was overjoyed to see his name. Yay!

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[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]Testy1 wrote:
Holy Shit! Hey everybody, Nephorms back!

Things are looking up in this depressing ass thread.[/quote]

At this point anyone who’s still reading has no one to blame but themselves. :wink:
[/quote]

I admit it, I’m a gawker.

427

It’s a nice, safe place to exercise my masochistic bent. :slight_smile:

Meanwhile, I was thinking while I worked out and showered about the problem with game and here is what I think: it IS a game, which puts you (the general you, not necessarily orion specifically) in the male-superior position through a series of shallow manipulations. These bring out her submissive, girlish side. All good and well for the one night stand, but you’ll have trouble moving into a longer term situation. What you have with her is built on memorized tricks that cause her to attribute qualities to you that you in fact do not have, a house of cards that eventually will topple, and THEN what you will have is a woman who begins to top from the bottom because a power vacuum is created when her man doesn’t have more substantial leadership qualities to offer. This is what begins the emasculation cycle you fear so much.

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Nephorm is back!

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Neph’s back!

Yeeeeaahhhh Buddy!!!

(FTR, I was not following this thread at all but clicked on it just now to see what was going on, I swear)

Neph - tell us about your travels!

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I don’t follow it either!

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[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
It’s a nice, safe place to exercise my masochistic bent. :slight_smile:

Meanwhile, I was thinking while I worked out and showered about the problem with game and here is what I think: it IS a game, which puts you (the general you, not necessarily orion specifically) in the male-superior position through a series of shallow manipulations. These bring out her submissive, girlish side. All good and well for the one night stand, but you’ll have trouble moving into a longer term situation. What you have with her is built on memorized tricks that cause her to attribute qualities to you that you in fact do not have, a house of cards that eventually will topple, and THEN what you will have is a woman who begins to top from the bottom because a power vacuum is created when her man doesn’t have more substantial leadership qualities to offer. This is what begins the emasculation cycle you fear so much.

[/quote]

No, thats not true.

A lot about it is inner game, which has really nothing to do with women but questioning and remodelling your outlook and attitude in general.

That is not fake.

As for the rest, you internalize it and it becomes you.

You underestimate the incredible power of regular blowjobs in terms of behavior modification through positive feedback.

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I never underestimate the power of blowjobs. Or of kisses, touches, desire expressed, and etc. YOU underestimate the power of trust.

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But thinking more about it, blowjobs are not a currency and I do not use them as a token economy. See, that’s what I mean by “topping from the bottom.” I’m not interested in manipulating him from my knees. I just want to enjoy one another!

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[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
But thinking more about it, blowjobs are not a currency and I do not use them as a token economy. See, that’s what I mean by “topping from the bottom.” I’m not interested in manipulating him from my knees. I just want to enjoy one another![/quote]

Thats not what I mean.

But I am glad you looked into the BDSM scene, they indeed to have valuable insights to offer.

What I mean is that if game breeds success the behaviors that lead to that success are internalized and you do not struggle to pretend to be something you are not, you simply are.

They reason why people even make fun of it is because every time they recognize it, it is done in an abysmally unskilled manner.

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Neg:

Hey baby, your ass sure looks fat in those pants

followed by kino escalation:

Grabs boobs.

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[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
But thinking more about it, blowjobs are not a currency and I do not use them as a token economy. See, that’s what I mean by “topping from the bottom.” I’m not interested in manipulating him from my knees. I just want to enjoy one another![/quote]

Thats not what I mean.

But I am glad you looked into the BDSM scene, they indeed to have valuable insights to offer. [/quote]

No doubt! Though I’m not sure I’m looking for insight. Mostly just like to know what people are up to, think about whether or not various philosophies apply to me and if so how/why. Same with the PUA stuff.

At any rate, when you say:

Then you absolutely are talking about it as currency in a token economy (“a system of behavior modification based on the systematic positive reinforcement of target behavior”). Perhaps your relationship views are skewed enough that you don’t realize it, but there is no question that it is so.

438

I have the new job and I seriously have NOTHING TO DO. I’ve already read all the policy manuals and HR “wellness” articles, and tilted my head sideways to view an organizational flow chart from 2004. So I’ve started dragging my laptop around.

In the absence of clients to help, well…here I am. lol

440

[quote]orion wrote:
Not necessarily, you can completely understand women and reject them as a whole.
[/quote]

I never said you can’t reject women as a whole. Nobody said you couldn’t avoid women, or adopt whatever legal sexual practices help you get through the day without involving women. The difference is between “I want to avoid the pain that being in a relationship with a woman might cause me” and “women are evil and want to cause me pain in relationships.”

[quote]Though this is called misogyny, an accusation that I like to play with, yes, is really not true for them, they simply dont care anymore, those are the “Ill be poolside” fellows. They dont care about women, they dont care about society, they really, truly do not give a fuck.

Personnaly, I get why women do not get it that some men have been so burned that they do not give a rats ass about them, what I do not get why men dont get it.
[/quote]

There is a difference between apathy and hate. You talk about women like you hate them, and you’re certainly willing to use them carnally despite the fact. I don’t understand doing commerce with someone who disgusts me.

[quote]
The general assumption is that you must, must, must desire women, and if you claim that you dont you are either bitter, or a loser or you cant get laid, when in reality what Roosh posted is true, it is usually success with women that disillusions you, not the lack of it. [/quote]

I didn’t say that. I didn’t see anyone else say that. Women aren’t angels, nor are they devils. In your pursuit of objectivity, all you’ve done is embrace the negation of what you accuse everyone else of perceiving; a facile, empty position that shows how much your view is influenced by emotion and trauma rather than rationality.

While I have no problem with the idea of learning social skills, I would be remiss if I didn’t point out the probable selection bias here. Most PUAs teach men to ignore rejection, and to pursue a large number of women. Unless you actually crunch the numbers, you don’t know what percentage of women actually respond to the techniques, or if you have simply grown better and better at grooming a vulnerable subset. Second, you don’t have any means of distinguishing women who are simply ready to have sex with someone, especially given the fact that so many men who embrace PUA techniques have almost no experience prior to learning “the game” because they were too afraid to approach women or too hung up on particular women.

I’m open to the idea that there is a grain of truth in most lies. The mere presence of horrible women does not inductively prove that all women are horrible.