Your Thoughts on Goodmornings

[quote]forlife wrote:
It’s been a couple years since doing either, and my legs have continued to get stronger. I don’t think they add much value, to be honest. [/quote]

To the guys saying that GMs don’t do much for size, I have no idea where you are getting that from.

I’ve added more mass onto my hammies doing things like GM variations and other “powerlifting moves” for assistance work.

A guy I know would regularly deadlift, do heavy RDLS (300-400+) leg curl a lot, etc but had little to show for it. He started doing GMs along with GHRs and suddenly he had hamstrings, along with a bigger squat and a huge deadlift PR.

Some of the nicest asses/hammies I’ve ever seen belong to individuals who do these moves weekly.

A good morning is not a hamstring move. If you’re doing them right, you’ll feel a hell of a stretch there, but its one of those exercises that will trash your entire backside.

I think you’re just doing them wrong, to be honest :slight_smile:

GM’s allow for crazy working weights… Provided your posterior chain ain’t weak as fuck, and then you can just get stronger on GM’s to bring that area up.

[quote]G87 wrote:

Hey, Bill, a question if I may… I love GM’s, but doing them stiff-legged put a lot of strain on my knees. I switched to a knees-relaxed stance, but now this thread is making me think about how I don’t feel my hams like I used to this way. Since you’ve been in the iron game for so long, do you have any suggestions on how to combat this?

G
[/quote]

I’m not bill, but for both GM’s and SLDL’s what you want to focus on (when targeting hammies) is pushing your ass back (and as far away from your knees as you can… Of course you can’t increase the distance between ass and knees, but I can’t think of a better description) and forward instead of “bar up and down” (which will naturally happen anyway).

That way you stretch the hams more/better/whatever.
At least that’s what I do…

[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
To the guys saying that GMs don’t do much for size, I have no idea where you are getting that from.
[/quote]

Since you quoted me, I never said GMs don’t do much for size. My issue is that they require bending at the neck and spine, which can cause damage at high weights.

[quote]forlife wrote:
buckeye girl wrote:
To the guys saying that GMs don’t do much for size, I have no idea where you are getting that from.

Since you quoted me, I never said GMs don’t do much for size. My issue is that they require bending at the neck and spine, which can cause damage at high weights.[/quote]

You shouldn’t be bending at the neck or spine. A round back good morning is a legitimate exercise, but even then there is minimal bending along the way.

In an arched back good morning, which is what I assume we are talking about, your shoulders should be pinched tight and your back should be arched. Essentially, you are setting up as if you were about to squat. You start the movement by pushing your hips back, just as you would when squatting.

The only major difference is that your hips should not go down, but your chest should. When the weight gets heavy, people have a tendency to half squat the weight up, or round up like a scared cat. Neither of these are correct. You should be pushing your hips back, then snapping them forward to complete the movement.

It sounds like you just don’t know how to perform good mornings correctly.

[quote]forlife wrote:
My issue is that they require bending at the neck and spine, which can cause damage at high weights.[/quote]

It sounds like you’re using poor form and this is definitely an exercise that should be avoided by those who aren’t using proper form. So in your case yes, avoid them.

I know how to do a good morning:

The point is my chiropractor said they are a higher risk exercise. Maybe he’s wrong, but I’ve continued to see good muscle growth without needing to do them. YMMV.

[quote]forlife wrote:
I know how to do a good morning:

The point is my chiropractor said they are a higher risk exercise. Maybe he’s wrong, but I’ve continued to see good muscle growth without needing to do them. YMMV.[/quote]

And my point is that I know lean guys that are walking around at your height with an extra 30 some pounds on them. And they do good mornings. And they have fantastic “posterior chain” development. And they have pro totals. And they don’t have any major back problems.

[quote]buckeye girl wrote:
forlife wrote:
I know how to do a good morning:

The point is my chiropractor said they are a higher risk exercise. Maybe he’s wrong, but I’ve continued to see good muscle growth without needing to do them. YMMV.

And my point is that I know lean guys that are walking around at your height with an extra 30 some pounds on them. And they do good mornings. And they have fantastic “posterior chain” development. And they have pro totals. And they don’t have any major back problems.[/quote]

And anything else… haha

[quote]dre wrote:
buckeye girl wrote:
forlife wrote:
I know how to do a good morning:

The point is my chiropractor said they are a higher risk exercise. Maybe he’s wrong, but I’ve continued to see good muscle growth without needing to do them. YMMV.

And my point is that I know lean guys that are walking around at your height with an extra 30 some pounds on them. And they do good mornings. And they have fantastic “posterior chain” development. And they have pro totals. And they don’t have any major back problems.

And anything else… haha[/quote]

And, I know that you shouldn’t start a sentence with “and” in formal writing, but this is teh interwebz and I don’t care??

Thanks for the replies guys, I’ll probably try throwing these in tomorrow on my leg day. Honestly I haven’t done these since my HS days and I only went up to 95 lbs lol. I just remember it feeling very strange.

Also, how low are you supposed to go? Until you lose leverage on the weight or just as far back as you can push your hips?

Also, completely random, but buckeye girl are you and stronghold dating or something? The avatars are messing with my mind.

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
Also, completely random, but buckeye girl are you and stronghold dating or something? The avatars are messing with my mind.[/quote]

You’re a quick one, aren’t you :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

[quote]plateau wrote:
Do them like Romanian deadlifts

  1. Chest up, shoulder blades down and together
  2. Spread your legs nice and wide (think PL squat).
  3. Grip bar as wide as shoulders are comfy
  4. Poke chin forward
  5. Try and push your bum back as far as possible. Don’t try and lower the weight.

My back and hammies are bigger and stronger than ever before. 1st time I did I had hammie DOMS for about 9 days…[/quote]

This is exactly how I do them. I’ve applied dan john’s advice about RDL’s (get your ass and your chin as far apart as possible) and it puts great tension on the hamstrings. Definitely worth adding to a program. As for that link someone posted with the animated gif of someone doing them, that looks nothing like the GM’s I’ve seen most people doing.

[quote]waylanderxx wrote:
Thanks for the replies guys, I’ll probably try throwing these in tomorrow on my leg day. Honestly I haven’t done these since my HS days and I only went up to 95 lbs lol. I just remember it feeling very strange.

Also, how low are you supposed to go? Until you lose leverage on the weight or just as far back as you can push your hips?[/quote]

Personally, I think that the exrx video is too low. Even with my ridiculous flexibility, I can’t go that deep with good form.

Here’s a clip from an old Westside video. I’m not saying that this is the ideal form, just that there’s quite a bit of variation in set up and depth. These may be great for a wide stance squatter looking for PRs, but might not be the best for a bodybuilder or whatever.

I guess what I’m saying is figure out what feels best for you.

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
waylanderxx wrote:
Also, completely random, but buckeye girl are you and stronghold dating or something? The avatars are messing with my mind.

You’re a quick one, aren’t you :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
[/quote]

It’s a gift.

Bill Starr has always suggested the use of Good Mornings. This is a quote from one of Bill Starrs articles…

"Good mornings are without a doubt the most hated of all exercises. You may have noticed, however, that the more difficult the exercise, the more productive it is. So it is with good mornings. In order for them to be useful they have to be attacked. Stay in the comfort zone and you won?t gain the desired results. On the plus side, most lifters find that the heavy sets aren?t any more troublesome than the lighter warmup sets. The bottom line is that there really isn?t any way to make this exercise fun or easy. If you?re seeking a non-stressful workout, good mornings won?t fit into your plans, It has been my observation that when people want to get strong ? really strong ? they don?t mind doing the hard stuff. In fact, they welcome it.

There are three variations of the good morning. You can do them with a flat back, with a rounded back and while seated. I have my athletes try all three and ask them which one got them the most sore. That ?s the one they should do regularly, but they can do the others occasionally for variety. It?s a simple exercise, but there are some key form points.

To perform the standing rounded-back or flat-back good morning, take the bar from the rack and lock it tightly to your upper back. That?s necessary because if the bar moves even slightly it will hurt your back, which is sometimes more painful than doing the exercise itself. Don?t let it move at all. Place your feet a bit closer than shoulder width and turn your toes in slightly. Bend your knees, but not too much ? just enough that your knees aren?t locked.

The second key form point is to push your feet firmly into the floor before starting the movement. That helps tighten your legs and hips and helps you control the weight better. Now bend forward, leaving your hips in the exact same position they were in when you started. Don?t let your hips drop during the execution of the exercise so it resembles a squat.

How low should you go? The lower the better. I?ve had some athletes, especially females, who could look back between their legs at the bottom position. The lower you can go, the more lumbars you involve. Try at least to place your chest on your thighs. You?ll find that going lower makes the exercise a tad easier than cutting it off. You?ll get a recoil effect when you go low.

Do each rep smoothly and in a relatively slow fashion. Don?t try to rush through the set or get herky-jerky. Reset at the top, make certain your knees are bent and the bar is snug on your back, and then do the next rep. You?ll find that if you do your sets at a quick pace, rather than taking long breaks between them, the good mornings will be a bit easier. Do them right after your squats or other leg exercise. That also makes them easier because you already have blood in your lower back and the area is warmed up thoroughly. Every so often I catch one of my athletes doing good mornings first in his program. They usually do it because all the squat racks are busy. I explain that if they tap their lumbars first they aren?t going to be able to handle much weight on the squat.

The seated version is good for variety and also for anyone who has a knee or ankle injury. The main thing to remember when doing these is to brace your feet solidly on the floor or against an upright on a rack. Otherwise, you?ll tip forward. Try to touch your chin or forehead to the bench. This is the easiest form of the exercise.

The set-and-rep formula is the same for all three versions of the good morning: five sets of eight, with the last set being heavy. How heavy? Your goal should be to do eight reps with 50% of what you can squat. That means someone who squats 400 pounds should be handling 200x8 on the good morning. If you haven?t been doing good mornings at all or have been using light to moderate weights, proceed toward your target number in a steady, unhurried manner. Add five pounds every one or two weeks and you?ll reach your goal in due course. Each week the final set should feel the same: heavy, but not overwhelmingly so.

I learned from the Russian Olympic lifters to limit the good morning to 220 pounds. They found that when athletes used more than 100 kilos they were forced to alter their mechanics to counterbalance the weight and it wasn?t a pure lumbar exercise any longer. I have followed that guideline ever since.

If I have an advanced strength athlete who wants to improve his lumbar strength, I have him do two or three sets with 225. For powerlifters and football players I make exceptions to the rule. I let them go heavy, knowing that they?ll involve many other back muscles along with their lumbars, but that?s okay. Bruce Randall popularized this form of good mornings in the 50?s and it?s an effective strength builder. Two football players at John Hopkins did in excess of 400 pounds.

Once a week is sufficient for most people because good mornings are taxing. I put them in the program on Wednesday, behind the light squats, and since Thursday is a non-lifting day there?s time to recover before the Friday session. "

Out of curiosity, how much poundage are you advocates out there putting up on good mornings? I do proper form but and have my feet about use shoulder width apart. For some random info, I’ve used these near the end of my hamstring workouts (bodybuilder) for about 3 sets of 10-14.

i do gm, arched back, and seated gm’s as ME and assistance exercises going fairly heavy. never had a problem doing them. if you can find a cambered bar, use it, much easier to keep the bar in place. form is very key for gm’s. check el;ite fitness’ website for video of proper form. they used to be in the exercise section.

GM are great:

  • Theyll make your squat and DL bigger
  • Hamstring + Lower Back hypertrophy