Your Girlfriend/Wife/Daughter/Friend

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
21

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
pat36 wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Pedophiles dont scare me as much as peoples reactions to them. Formerly sane human beings well up with bloodlust and start suggesting the most inhumane things they can imagine. Its like a glance at the Dark Ages, really.

Yes, the government has the right to imprison, and, in some states, the government has the right to put someone to death in a humane way, and the government has various other related rights.

What the government does not have is the right to torture anyone, to give them a “long, slow, agonizing death”, to let other citizens “get them”, or any of the other midevil shit people always suggest for pedophiles.

You can’t have kids.

hahaha. Are you serious?

Like I said I am philosophically against the death penalty, but crimes against kids invoke strong passion out of me. As far as I am concerned there is no hell hot enough for these people. Since killing these vermin really doesn’t do anything but get them off the hook as far as I am concerned. Once they are dead, you can’t do more to them and that is too good for them. I am perfectly happy to let them get raped and beaten daily in a maximum security prison. I have no issues with that, hell I prefer it.

I see. So, I assume you’re generally for human rights, with the exception of pedophiles, because you get so emotional about the subject. Its fine to get emotional, but some people get equally emotional about terrorists or murderers or plain-ol-regular rapists, some people get equally emotional about those who abuse animals or the elderly, some people get just as emotional about people burning the American flag.

Do you see where I’m going with this?

But fuck with my kids, and you are looking into a world of pain that you cannot even imagine. Prison wouldn’t hide you, I’d go there and get you if I had to. I pay the roving gangs in prison a high fee to do my bidding. Whatever, but hell would be a welcome relief by the time I am done. Do what you will to me, but do not fuck with my kids.

Do we have a legal system to protect society or to for revenge against criminals? Why is the government forbidden to use “cruel and unusual punishment”? [/quote]

When it comes to my kids, I don’t give a shit about the legal system, the criminals “rights”, what the government has forbidden, elderly people, rapists, animal abusers, muderers, the flag, being consistent, emotions, terrorists, politics, policemen, judges, lawyers, or what you think, period.

22

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
“She is the single most brilliant thing I’ve ever known,” he added. “She was the best thing this world had left to give and the fact that we are without her, and the world is without her, as a result of the flippant actions of somebody who was able to gain her trust is a pretty big deal.”[/quote]

What’s the purpose of quoting that, HH?

What does it tell us?

What new information does it bright to light?

Am I supposed to be shocked to learn that the person who died apparently had relatives (humans don’t reproduce asexually, after all…), and that these relatives would express grief upon learning of her death?

Huh?

The above quote is what every single parent/relative/etc would say about any child whether they were alive or dead. It’s what you hear at birthdays, graduations, celebrations, memorials, etc…standard shit, “He/she/it was the greatest, yadda yadda yadda”.

Why post this?

MILLIONS DIE EVERY DAY. EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THEM HAD A FAMILY.

Fucking brutal, ain’t it?

Welcome to life.

You need to incorporate REALITY into your world view.
You do that by acknowledging that RAPE, MURDER, DEATH, DISEASE, and SUFFERING have all been a daily occurence on this planet for thousands of years.

Then you will not be SHOCKED when you read about these things in the paper.

Expand your mind until you are capable of UNDERSTANDING how this planet functions…the good AND and the bad. Do not shut out what you find too difficult to stomach.

Bad news, HH:
The guy who you want to see tortured has (or had) a mother and father as well, and I’m sure his own mother loved him just as much as the mothers of his victims loved their children.

Appeal to emotion FAILS.
Put a tampon in it and try again.

23

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
unforgiven2 wrote:
Why are people always quick to jump in and defend the pervs who do this. Death penalty is not right, two wrongs don’t make a right, yada, yada, yada, B.S! That little girl didn’t deserve to be tortured or to die. I have kids and they are my world, and yes if someone hurt them like that I’m not asking the government to torture them. I would want to do it myself. If that makes me Dark Ages well so be it.

Why should the government torture (or allow you to torture) someone who hurt your kids… but not torture (or allow anyone to torture) someone who, say, set an old folks home on fire? Is it fair to the children of the 82 year old woman who burned to death, that you get to exact your revenge and they cannot?

[/quote]
First of all, I do see your point, but without being a parent you can’t see mine. I’m not saying you are specifically wrong, just a different opinion. Like I teach my students and my children you have to understand people have different points on just about everything. I didn’t mean I really wanted the government to do this or the government to allow me to do this.

However, I would have strong emotions driving me for this kind of action. Perhaps it is primal in your eyes and yes, the action is driven by emotions. It’s against all I’ve been taught as well, but the pain of losing your child in this manner can’t be compared with. You gave good references toeards other things driving emotions as well, but none compare to that of losing a child. Not even the loss of a parent.

24

I’m sure if we allow you to use the Death Penalty, you’ll ONLY use it in such clear cut cases…

Pfft. Look at Texas. If one of those executed men in the past decade is innocent, killing the first was an act of evil.

25

Oh, and where I’m from you would get leniency in this kind of situation.

corse i iz frum da stiks

26

[quote]unforgiven2 wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
unforgiven2 wrote:
Why are people always quick to jump in and defend the pervs who do this. Death penalty is not right, two wrongs don’t make a right, yada, yada, yada, B.S! That little girl didn’t deserve to be tortured or to die. I have kids and they are my world, and yes if someone hurt them like that I’m not asking the government to torture them. I would want to do it myself. If that makes me Dark Ages well so be it.

Why should the government torture (or allow you to torture) someone who hurt your kids… but not torture (or allow anyone to torture) someone who, say, set an old folks home on fire? Is it fair to the children of the 82 year old woman who burned to death, that you get to exact your revenge and they cannot?

First of all, I do see your point, but without being a parent you can’t see mine. I’m not saying you are specifically wrong, just a different opinion. Like I teach my students and my children you have to understand people have different points on just about everything. I didn’t mean I really wanted the government to do this or the government to allow me to do this.

However, I would have strong emotions driving me for this kind of action. Perhaps it is primal in your eyes and yes, the action is driven by emotions. It’s against all I’ve been taught as well, but the pain of losing your child in this manner can’t be compared with. You gave good references toeards other things driving emotions as well, but none compare to that of losing a child. Not even the loss of a parent.

[/quote]

Word Up…
There is nothing rational about the protective side of being a parent.

27

I have papers to grade, I guess we can discuss it more Friday on my off-period. Catch you guys later.

28

[quote]unforgiven2 wrote:
I have papers to grade, I guess we can discuss it more Friday on my off-period. Catch you guys later.[/quote]

Fail 'em all!

29

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
This little nine year old girl was raped and buried alive, while she clutched her little toy dolphin. Why is the guy who did that not yet in Hell?[/quote]

Because ethics, justice, and morality are all theoretical constructs which have no existence outside the minds of humans. Tough shit, I’m sorry to break it to you.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Meet Mr. John Cooey, who killed Jessica pictured above. Now imagine this man has your little daughter in his hands. He gets sheer perverse joy from her whimpering cries for her mommy. He pushes her down and does unspeakable things to your little baby, and chuckles with delight at her screams.

Who could NOT want a slow torturous death for this creature?
I wish all those who are against the death penalty, especially because it is ‘cruel and inhumane’ would really think about all this.[/quote]

Your story and the motives you attribute to him are HIGHLY IMPLAUSIBLE.

First, because pedophiles in western society are usually loners, introverts, and underachievers. They are weak souled individuals…not capable of great acts, either good or evil.

The guy looks like a sad old man. He doesn’t look devious. He doesn’t look cruel. He doesn’t look like a sadist, a person who would actually get off on causing harm to others. In all likelyhood, the guy was just a loner who wanted some social and/or romantic companionship. I can’t imagine him “chuckling with delight” while raping or killing a little girl. More likely, he flat out panicked, which is bound to happen when someone breaks the law.

The most vile, ruthless, cruel, and sadistic people tend to occupy the upper tiers of any society. The man above is not such a person. He is at the very bottom of the ladder. That’s why he “victimizes” young girls, instead of “victimizing” adult women.

In your interactions with others, you are constantly victimizing others and also being made a victim by others, according to your relative positions in the social hierarchy. All human interactions are hierarchical. No person ever confronts another on “equal terms”. Power dynamics are at play in every decision, every conversation, every movement you make throughout your entire life.

The kicker is that the vast majority of human beings do not possess the intellectual or emotional capacity to understand what I have just written above. They follow a knee-jerk reaction dictated by their emotions whenever such subjects are raised. I’m unique in that this shit does not affect me. That makes me a candidate for the ruling class, believe it or not.

Remember:
The greatest crimes of a society are always perpetrated by those at the top and blamed on those at the bottom.

To understand this is to have what it takes to be a king among men.

30

[quote]orion wrote:

Fine if those who are against the death penalty do not have to pay the costs of it.

Since life long imprisonment is cheaper, you lose.

[/quote]

Only if you add in the costs of all the legal appeals - including the cost of defense, provided by the state, and assume that the people are going to be incarcerated for a long time anyway due to the appeals process (good assumptions in the current system, but not necessary ones).

31

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
I’m sure if we allow you to use the Death Penalty, you’ll ONLY use it in such clear cut cases…

Pfft. Look at Texas. If one of those executed men in the past decade is innocent, killing the first was an act of evil.[/quote]

Texas doesn’t impose the death penalty a great deal more often than other states - what they do is carry out the sentences faster.

32

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
typo: That should read “Do we have a legal system to protect society or for revenge against criminals?”

The extra “to” was an error.[/quote]

Both. Co-option of private vengeance is a function of the criminal justice system. We as citizens give up the right to pursue private revenge in exchange for the government’s commitment to pursue punishment for wrongdoers. One part of a sentence of punishment is to affirm the value of the victim’s rights that were violated and the damage done to the victim.

33

I think true rapists should be hung until dead but this is the problem when you involve lawyers in the process of justice
You may have to cut and paste

34

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
This little nine year old girl was raped and buried alive, while she clutched her little toy dolphin. Why is the guy who did that not yet in Hell?

Because ethics, justice, and morality are all theoretical constructs which have no existence outside the minds of humans. Tough shit, I’m sorry to break it to you.

Headhunter wrote:
Meet Mr. John Cooey, who killed Jessica pictured above. Now imagine this man has your little daughter in his hands. He gets sheer perverse joy from her whimpering cries for her mommy. He pushes her down and does unspeakable things to your little baby, and chuckles with delight at her screams.

Who could NOT want a slow torturous death for this creature?
I wish all those who are against the death penalty, especially because it is ‘cruel and inhumane’ would really think about all this.

Your story and the motives you attribute to him are HIGHLY IMPLAUSIBLE.

First, because pedophiles in western society are usually loners, introverts, and underachievers. They are weak souled individuals…not capable of great acts, either good or evil.

The guy looks like a sad old man. He doesn’t look devious. He doesn’t look cruel. He doesn’t look like a sadist, a person who would actually get off on causing harm to others. In all likelyhood, the guy was just a loner who wanted some social and/or romantic companionship. I can’t imagine him “chuckling with delight” while raping or killing a little girl. More likely, he flat out panicked, which is bound to happen when someone breaks the law.

The most vile, ruthless, cruel, and sadistic people tend to occupy the upper tiers of any society. The man above is not such a person. He is at the very bottom of the ladder. That’s why he “victimizes” young girls, instead of “victimizing” adult women.

In your interactions with others, you are constantly victimizing others and also being made a victim by others, according to your relative positions in the social hierarchy. All human interactions are hierarchical. No person ever confronts another on “equal terms”. Power dynamics are at play in every decision, every conversation, every movement you make throughout your entire life.

The kicker is that the vast majority of human beings do not possess the intellectual or emotional capacity to understand what I have just written above. They follow a knee-jerk reaction dictated by their emotions whenever such subjects are raised. I’m unique in that this shit does not affect me. That makes me a candidate for the ruling class, believe it or not.

Remember:
The greatest crimes of a society are always perpetrated by those at the top and blamed on those at the bottom.

To understand this is to have what it takes to be a king among men.[/quote]

What do you do for a living , you seem to have some insight , I do disagree about the average person having the capacity to understand what you have written, though.

35

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
“She is the single most brilliant thing I’ve ever known,” he added. “She was the best thing this world had left to give and the fact that we are without her, and the world is without her, as a result of the flippant actions of somebody who was able to gain her trust is a pretty big deal.”

What’s the purpose of quoting that, HH?

What does it tell us?

What new information does it bright to light?

Am I supposed to be shocked to learn that the person who died apparently had relatives (humans don’t reproduce asexually, after all…), and that these relatives would express grief upon learning of her death?

Huh?

The above quote is what every single parent/relative/etc would say about any child whether they were alive or dead. It’s what you hear at birthdays, graduations, celebrations, memorials, etc…standard shit, “He/she/it was the greatest, yadda yadda yadda”.

Why post this?

MILLIONS DIE EVERY DAY. EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THEM HAD A FAMILY.

Fucking brutal, ain’t it?

Welcome to life.

You need to incorporate REALITY into your world view.
You do that by acknowledging that RAPE, MURDER, DEATH, DISEASE, and SUFFERING have all been a daily occurence on this planet for thousands of years.

Then you will not be SHOCKED when you read about these things in the paper.

Expand your mind until you are capable of UNDERSTANDING how this planet functions…the good AND and the bad. Do not shut out what you find too difficult to stomach.

Bad news, HH:
The guy who you want to see tortured has (or had) a mother and father as well, and I’m sure his own mother loved him just as much as the mothers of his victims loved their children.

Appeal to emotion FAILS.
Put a tampon in it and try again.[/quote]

Some crimes are so heinous that, in my view, the perp has disqualified themselves from what I consider human. I would happily execute a mad dog or a rabid skunk — that’s how I feel about the guys who commited those crimes.

The young woman at the top was taking her dog for a walk, for crissakes!! The little girl was asleep in her bed.

The sooner we get these creatures off the planet and into the hands of a just and vengeful God, the better. These creatures belong in Hell. It was God, my God, that created Hell for these types of beings. His will be done…

36

[quote]Headhunter wrote:

The sooner we get these creatures off the planet and into the hands of a just and vengeful God, the better. These creatures belong in Hell. It was God, my God, that created Hell for these types of beings. His will be done…

[/quote]

It was also your god that created those creatures. Shouldn’t he be held responsible?

37

[quote]pat36 wrote:
unforgiven2 wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
unforgiven2 wrote:
Why are people always quick to jump in and defend the pervs who do this. Death penalty is not right, two wrongs don’t make a right, yada, yada, yada, B.S! That little girl didn’t deserve to be tortured or to die. I have kids and they are my world, and yes if someone hurt them like that I’m not asking the government to torture them. I would want to do it myself. If that makes me Dark Ages well so be it.

Why should the government torture (or allow you to torture) someone who hurt your kids… but not torture (or allow anyone to torture) someone who, say, set an old folks home on fire? Is it fair to the children of the 82 year old woman who burned to death, that you get to exact your revenge and they cannot?

First of all, I do see your point, but without being a parent you can’t see mine. I’m not saying you are specifically wrong, just a different opinion. Like I teach my students and my children you have to understand people have different points on just about everything. I didn’t mean I really wanted the government to do this or the government to allow me to do this.

However, I would have strong emotions driving me for this kind of action. Perhaps it is primal in your eyes and yes, the action is driven by emotions. It’s against all I’ve been taught as well, but the pain of losing your child in this manner can’t be compared with. You gave good references toeards other things driving emotions as well, but none compare to that of losing a child. Not even the loss of a parent.

Word Up…
There is nothing rational about the protective side of being a parent.[/quote]

I understand: extreme emotion motivates people to do extreme things.

My point here is that, in reality, we cannot have a government that allows decisions to be made within such extreme emotions.

I would even go so far as to say that, if someone harmed your children in such a way, and you killed them, it should certainly be a mitigating factor in your trial.

My stance remains: protect society from them, rehabilitate the ones who can, remove the ones who cannot, and if its deemed necessary, execute the ones you do in a humane way.

38

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
pat36 wrote:
unforgiven2 wrote:
CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
unforgiven2 wrote:
Why are people always quick to jump in and defend the pervs who do this. Death penalty is not right, two wrongs don’t make a right, yada, yada, yada, B.S! That little girl didn’t deserve to be tortured or to die. I have kids and they are my world, and yes if someone hurt them like that I’m not asking the government to torture them. I would want to do it myself. If that makes me Dark Ages well so be it.

Why should the government torture (or allow you to torture) someone who hurt your kids… but not torture (or allow anyone to torture) someone who, say, set an old folks home on fire? Is it fair to the children of the 82 year old woman who burned to death, that you get to exact your revenge and they cannot?

First of all, I do see your point, but without being a parent you can’t see mine. I’m not saying you are specifically wrong, just a different opinion. Like I teach my students and my children you have to understand people have different points on just about everything. I didn’t mean I really wanted the government to do this or the government to allow me to do this.

However, I would have strong emotions driving me for this kind of action. Perhaps it is primal in your eyes and yes, the action is driven by emotions. It’s against all I’ve been taught as well, but the pain of losing your child in this manner can’t be compared with. You gave good references toeards other things driving emotions as well, but none compare to that of losing a child. Not even the loss of a parent.

Word Up…
There is nothing rational about the protective side of being a parent.

I understand: extreme emotion motivates people to do extreme things.

My point here is that, in reality, we cannot have a government that allows decisions to be made within such extreme emotions.

I would even go so far as to say that, if someone harmed your children in such a way, and you killed them, it should certainly be a mitigating factor in your trial.

My stance remains: protect society from them, rehabilitate the ones who can, remove the ones who cannot, and if its deemed necessary, execute the ones you do in a humane way.
[/quote]

If somebody tortured and killed my kids, what happens to me after really doesn’t matter, the better part of me is already dead.

39

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
orion wrote:

Fine if those who are against the death penalty do not have to pay the costs of it.

Since life long imprisonment is cheaper, you lose.

Only if you add in the costs of all the legal appeals - including the cost of defense, provided by the state, and assume that the people are going to be incarcerated for a long time anyway due to the appeals process (good assumptions in the current system, but not necessary ones).[/quote]

You mean only if you try to make sure the government does not kill innocent people?

Um, yes.

If we lynched them at the next street crossing the costs would be negligible.

Short term.

40

No, you can take a lot of precautions at the trial level without necessarily allowing the endless stream of technical appeals that accompanies every death-penalty case. Try to find an inmate on death row who hasn’t had an “ineffective counsel” appeal. Or, for example, years of appeals on whether one of the bullets he fired was actually the bullet that killed the police officer…