LOL. OK. Good thing I know you’re joking, or I might get offended. 
I’m training legs three times a week and I train calves on each of those three days, rotating between seated raises and standing raises. I’ve noticed considerable improvement in both quads and calves as a result of the higher volume of training. By the way, I read something from Dave Palumbo about calf training that I have incorporated, and which I also attribute to seeing my calves finally start to grow–don’t warm them up–start at a weight you can handle for 12-15 reps. He argues that since we walk all the time, they don’t need the same kind of warm-up we give to other muscle groups.
i’m definitely pleased that the matter of genetics is being mentioned here… pleased and, more importantly, surprised. the influence of genetics, however, doesn’t just stop with the lower legs and lower arms, gentlemen… but that’s a rant for another time.
this being said, though, the reason that most people are so quick to blame relatively small-ish calves/forearms on genetics is because they tend to be, relatively speaking, the smallest muscle groups of the extremeties and, simultaneously, the most resistant to growth.
it makes total sense, if you think about it… it would be very inefficient of the human body to build up a disproportionately large amount of muscle mass at the end of any of its levers. this would make all leg and arm movements more energy consuming than necessary.
[quote]joe shumsky wrote:
it makes total sense, if you think about it… it would be very inefficient of the human body to build up a disproportionately large amount of muscle mass at the end of any of its levers. this would make all leg and arm movements more energy consuming than necessary.[/quote]
Yes, it would be odd to have such muscle groups being extraordinarily large, but I would think that they are probably more comprised of a greater degree of endurance fibers because of their constant usage in everyday activities, and that would probably contribute to a greater extend (ie. distance runners being lanky etc).
S
i have no doubt that i can build massive calves even if i dont have the best genetics, just have to find the right exercises, training frecuency and volume
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I train mine daily. I am positive they were around 14" before I ever started training them and they are at a little over 18" now.
Calves are largely “genetic dependent”…meaning that those who truly lack the genetics for big calves will have to work extremely hard to see any progress at all.
That is why you do NOT follow the advice from guys who have super large calves because 99% of the time, those calves would have been bigger than most whether they ever trained them or not.
That means guys like Eric Fankhauser who have 24" calves can’t exactly help you much as far as strategy if you are walking around on toothpicks.
The same largely goes for forearms. Some guys can get away with never training and still have forearms bigger than most (I never train mine but they get comments anyway) while some need to specialize their training for them.[/quote]
This.
Unfortunately I fall into that category of shitty genetics. Mine were 12.5in. when I started!! Now they’re a little over 15 and I just started working them 4x per week as per PX’s advice and just being fed up with nothing seeming to work. So far it does actually seem to be slowly having an effect but it’s only been 2 weeks or so so we’ll see.
Weird thing is the last time I was this weight everything else was smaller and weaker, except my calves which were 16…no idea how to explain that or why they haven’t more easily gone back up. I’ve tried 6 sets 2x per week as per Stu’s method and DC training (both the normal calf method and the treadmill method Dante has mentioned) and after all of that for a decent amount of time they didn’t grow at all.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
4 times a week. Every gym day except the day I train legs. I split up soleus and gastroc work too. My calves stalled at 16" but since I started the 4x plan theyve started growing again, now only an inch smaller than my arms and neck. [/quote]
What are they at now and what do you do for them? I saw you mentioned the exercises, but as far as how many sets per exercise. Also some people tend to just take multiple calf sets to failure, do you do this or ramp up to one top set? So far I’m basically doing what I saw PX doing…ramping up to a top set doing 3x12-15 each day I workout (4x/week now)
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]lewhitehurst wrote:
Gotta try different things and see what works with your body. My baby brother always had huge calves. He was 5 or 6 years old and grownups would talk about his leg development. My calves have always been pretty big and I don’t work them nearly as much as I know I could. When I think about it I actually put calf work into my workouts, but I have always been one of those guys that tend to grow proportionally just by doing basic compound lifts. [/quote]
But youre black. Stop fucking with everyone[/quote]
Lmao
[quote]davidcox1 wrote:
I’m training legs three times a week and I train calves on each of those three days, rotating between seated raises and standing raises. I’ve noticed considerable improvement in both quads and calves as a result of the higher volume of training. By the way, I read something from Dave Palumbo about calf training that I have incorporated, and which I also attribute to seeing my calves finally start to grow–don’t warm them up–start at a weight you can handle for 12-15 reps. He argues that since we walk all the time, they don’t need the same kind of warm-up we give to other muscle groups.[/quote]
That seems strange, I mean I wouldn’t go to benching 225x10 just because I do some push ups or something equivalent to walking for calves. Well, I probably could…just doesn’t seem like not warming up would be helpful over warming up anyway.
[quote]joe shumsky wrote:
it makes total sense, if you think about it… it would be very inefficient of the human body to build up a disproportionately large amount of muscle mass at the end of any of its levers. this would make all leg and arm movements more energy consuming than necessary.[/quote]
[/quote]
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_hIfZla1VWGI/Sc9jKDSTuFI/AAAAAAAAB1c/Nz9C2e_xegw/s400/060219_CinGorilla_vmed.widec.jpg I think he disagrees 
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I train mine daily. I am positive they were around 14" before I ever started training them and they are at a little over 18" now.
Calves are largely “genetic dependent”…meaning that those who truly lack the genetics for big calves will have to work extremely hard to see any progress at all.
That is why you do NOT follow the advice from guys who have super large calves because 99% of the time, those calves would have been bigger than most whether they ever trained them or not.
That means guys like Eric Fankhauser who have 24" calves can’t exactly help you much as far as strategy if you are walking around on toothpicks.
The same largely goes for forearms. Some guys can get away with never training and still have forearms bigger than most (I never train mine but they get comments anyway) while some need to specialize their training for them.[/quote]
This.
Unfortunately I fall into that category of shitty genetics. Mine were 12.5in. when I started!! Now they’re a little over 15 and I just started working them 4x per week as per PX’s advice and just being fed up with nothing seeming to work. So far it does actually seem to be slowly having an effect but it’s only been 2 weeks or so so we’ll see.
Weird thing is the last time I was this weight everything else was smaller and weaker, except my calves which were 16…no idea how to explain that or why they haven’t more easily gone back up. I’ve tried 6 sets 2x per week as per Stu’s method and DC training (both the normal calf method and the treadmill method Dante has mentioned) and after all of that for a decent amount of time they didn’t grow at all.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
4 times a week. Every gym day except the day I train legs. I split up soleus and gastroc work too. My calves stalled at 16" but since I started the 4x plan theyve started growing again, now only an inch smaller than my arms and neck. [/quote]
What are they at now and what do you do for them? I saw you mentioned the exercises, but as far as how many sets per exercise. Also some people tend to just take multiple calf sets to failure, do you do this or ramp up to one top set? So far I’m basically doing what I saw PX doing…ramping up to a top set doing 3x12-15 each day I workout (4x/week now)
[/quote]
I’ve found it almost impossbile to hit failure during calf training. I always seem to be able to take a few minutes then bang out some more. I dont know maybe I dont push it enough.
But my sets and reps change. Usually 4 or 5 sets of each exercise. Add weight every set. Sometimes I’ll do a few extra sets with the same top weight. Reps are anywhere from 10-25.
I have no idea what my calves started at but they were real small now they look proportional at 16.5 inches. Maybe a tiny bit smaller than that
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
I train mine daily. I am positive they were around 14" before I ever started training them and they are at a little over 18" now.
Calves are largely “genetic dependent”…meaning that those who truly lack the genetics for big calves will have to work extremely hard to see any progress at all.
That is why you do NOT follow the advice from guys who have super large calves because 99% of the time, those calves would have been bigger than most whether they ever trained them or not.
That means guys like Eric Fankhauser who have 24" calves can’t exactly help you much as far as strategy if you are walking around on toothpicks.
The same largely goes for forearms. Some guys can get away with never training and still have forearms bigger than most (I never train mine but they get comments anyway) while some need to specialize their training for them.[/quote]
This.
Unfortunately I fall into that category of shitty genetics. Mine were 12.5in. when I started!! Now they’re a little over 15 and I just started working them 4x per week as per PX’s advice and just being fed up with nothing seeming to work. So far it does actually seem to be slowly having an effect but it’s only been 2 weeks or so so we’ll see.
Weird thing is the last time I was this weight everything else was smaller and weaker, except my calves which were 16…no idea how to explain that or why they haven’t more easily gone back up. I’ve tried 6 sets 2x per week as per Stu’s method and DC training (both the normal calf method and the treadmill method Dante has mentioned) and after all of that for a decent amount of time they didn’t grow at all.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
4 times a week. Every gym day except the day I train legs. I split up soleus and gastroc work too. My calves stalled at 16" but since I started the 4x plan theyve started growing again, now only an inch smaller than my arms and neck. [/quote]
What are they at now and what do you do for them? I saw you mentioned the exercises, but as far as how many sets per exercise. Also some people tend to just take multiple calf sets to failure, do you do this or ramp up to one top set? So far I’m basically doing what I saw PX doing…ramping up to a top set doing 3x12-15 each day I workout (4x/week now)
[/quote]
the reason your calves doesnt grow is because you spend too much time liking nuts on a internet forum and because you like more to talk about it than to do it.
stu, good point. i’ve no doubt that you’re correct about that. slow twitch muscle fibers simply do not have the growth potential of their fast twitch counterparts… and, like i said, i think it’s a safe “generalization” to make that out of all the body’s muscle groups, the calves and forearms tend to be the most slow twitch/endurance oriented. perhaps the best guage of someone’s true potential for bodybuilding lies in their untrained calf/forearm girth? just a thought.
and pumped340, i think that gorilla must be taking something from inside the glass case at gnc.
[quote]joe shumsky wrote:
perhaps the best guage of someone’s true potential for bodybuilding lies in their untrained calf/forearm girth? just a thought.
[/quote]
Dexter Jackson.
training intensity and time devoted account for a lot.
if folks got as fired up for calves as they do on chest day and devoted early on, fresh energy to calves w/ time and multiple sets/exercises,they’d likely respond better. priority principal.
that said my calves blow but are better than they were. they get defined/split but the overall mass is a hard thing to increase.
full stretch and a maximal contraction. that said insetion pts/high calves are genetic, i hate my high calves!!!
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
4 times a week. Every gym day except the day I train legs. I split up soleus and gastroc work too. My calves stalled at 16" but since I started the 4x plan theyve started growing again, now only an inch smaller than my arms and neck. [/quote]
What are they at now and what do you do for them? I saw you mentioned the exercises, but as far as how many sets per exercise. Also some people tend to just take multiple calf sets to failure, do you do this or ramp up to one top set? So far I’m basically doing what I saw PX doing…ramping up to a top set doing 3x12-15 each day I workout (4x/week now)
[/quote]
I’ve found it almost impossbile to hit failure during calf training. I always seem to be able to take a few minutes then bang out some more. I dont know maybe I dont push it enough.
But my sets and reps change. Usually 4 or 5 sets of each exercise. Add weight every set. Sometimes I’ll do a few extra sets with the same top weight. Reps are anywhere from 10-25.
I have no idea what my calves started at but they were real small now they look proportional at 16.5 inches. Maybe a tiny bit smaller than that
[/quote]
Wow so 4-10 sets basically 4x per week then.
Just out of curiosity since your rep range may change a lot do you drop reps as the sets go on, so that nearly every set is doing as many reps as you can (for instance 100x20, 150x15, 200x10…each very intense) or just do typical ramping up where only the last set is really as hard as you could push (maybe 100x15, 125x15, 150x15)? Again just wondering because I notice calves is something I see people train often a lot different than their other muscles.
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
4 times a week. Every gym day except the day I train legs. I split up soleus and gastroc work too. My calves stalled at 16" but since I started the 4x plan theyve started growing again, now only an inch smaller than my arms and neck. [/quote]
What are they at now and what do you do for them? I saw you mentioned the exercises, but as far as how many sets per exercise. Also some people tend to just take multiple calf sets to failure, do you do this or ramp up to one top set? So far I’m basically doing what I saw PX doing…ramping up to a top set doing 3x12-15 each day I workout (4x/week now)
[/quote]
I’ve found it almost impossbile to hit failure during calf training. I always seem to be able to take a few minutes then bang out some more. I dont know maybe I dont push it enough.
But my sets and reps change. Usually 4 or 5 sets of each exercise. Add weight every set. Sometimes I’ll do a few extra sets with the same top weight. Reps are anywhere from 10-25.
I have no idea what my calves started at but they were real small now they look proportional at 16.5 inches. Maybe a tiny bit smaller than that
[/quote]
Wow so 4-10 sets basically 4x per week then.
Just out of curiosity since your rep range may change a lot do you drop reps as the sets go on, so that nearly every set is doing as many reps as you can (for instance 100x20, 150x15, 200x10…each very intense) or just do typical ramping up where only the last set is really as hard as you could push (maybe 100x15, 125x15, 150x15)? Again just wondering because I notice calves is something I see people train often a lot different than their other muscles.
[/quote]
Why the hell are you making this that complicated? I train my calves daily because it makes sure I don’t neglect them. There is no special formula of sets and reps that I must do each time. I know I’ve trained them enough by how they feel. I wear shorts during every training session so that my calves are on my mind the moment I set foot in the gym. I used to be one of those guys who ALWAYS wore long pants in the gym. They didn’t get better until I quit doing that.
Some of the questions you guys ask show for damn sure that you do NOT have the same drive in you that others do on this site who are seeing progress. Lifting weights is not a matter of solving a math equation. That is where the ART comes in…and if you can’t ever find that balance, this is NOT for you.
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
4 times a week. Every gym day except the day I train legs. I split up soleus and gastroc work too. My calves stalled at 16" but since I started the 4x plan theyve started growing again, now only an inch smaller than my arms and neck. [/quote]
What are they at now and what do you do for them? I saw you mentioned the exercises, but as far as how many sets per exercise. Also some people tend to just take multiple calf sets to failure, do you do this or ramp up to one top set? So far I’m basically doing what I saw PX doing…ramping up to a top set doing 3x12-15 each day I workout (4x/week now)
[/quote]
I’ve found it almost impossbile to hit failure during calf training. I always seem to be able to take a few minutes then bang out some more. I dont know maybe I dont push it enough.
But my sets and reps change. Usually 4 or 5 sets of each exercise. Add weight every set. Sometimes I’ll do a few extra sets with the same top weight. Reps are anywhere from 10-25.
I have no idea what my calves started at but they were real small now they look proportional at 16.5 inches. Maybe a tiny bit smaller than that
[/quote]
Wow so 4-10 sets basically 4x per week then.
Just out of curiosity since your rep range may change a lot do you drop reps as the sets go on, so that nearly every set is doing as many reps as you can (for instance 100x20, 150x15, 200x10…each very intense) or just do typical ramping up where only the last set is really as hard as you could push (maybe 100x15, 125x15, 150x15)? Again just wondering because I notice calves is something I see people train often a lot different than their other muscles.
[/quote]
I dont know. I just start out light and add weight. Sometimes I’ll do a lot of fast explosive reps, sometimes I’ll do slow reps and grind it out.
I train them by feel, like everyhting else.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
4 times a week. Every gym day except the day I train legs. I split up soleus and gastroc work too. My calves stalled at 16" but since I started the 4x plan theyve started growing again, now only an inch smaller than my arms and neck. [/quote]
What are they at now and what do you do for them? I saw you mentioned the exercises, but as far as how many sets per exercise. Also some people tend to just take multiple calf sets to failure, do you do this or ramp up to one top set? So far I’m basically doing what I saw PX doing…ramping up to a top set doing 3x12-15 each day I workout (4x/week now)
[/quote]
I’ve found it almost impossbile to hit failure during calf training. I always seem to be able to take a few minutes then bang out some more. I dont know maybe I dont push it enough.
But my sets and reps change. Usually 4 or 5 sets of each exercise. Add weight every set. Sometimes I’ll do a few extra sets with the same top weight. Reps are anywhere from 10-25.
I have no idea what my calves started at but they were real small now they look proportional at 16.5 inches. Maybe a tiny bit smaller than that
[/quote]
Wow so 4-10 sets basically 4x per week then.
Just out of curiosity since your rep range may change a lot do you drop reps as the sets go on, so that nearly every set is doing as many reps as you can (for instance 100x20, 150x15, 200x10…each very intense) or just do typical ramping up where only the last set is really as hard as you could push (maybe 100x15, 125x15, 150x15)? Again just wondering because I notice calves is something I see people train often a lot different than their other muscles.
[/quote]
Why the hell are you making this that complicated? I train my calves daily because it makes sure I don’t neglect them. There is no special formula of sets and reps that I must do each time. I know I’ve trained them enough by how they feel. I wear shorts during every training session so that my calves are on my mind the moment I set foot in the gym. I used to be one of those guys who ALWAYS wore long pants in the gym. They didn’t get better until I quit doing that.
Some of the questions you guys ask show for damn sure that you do NOT have the same drive in you that others do on this site who are seeing progress. Lifting weights is not a matter of solving a math equation. That is where the ART comes in…and if you can’t ever find that balance, this is NOT for you.[/quote]
As I said in the other thread… It’s hopeless… I have nothing against you, Pumped, but somehow I don’t think you’re ever really going to understand this whole bodybuilding thing…
I was lucky enough to be born with decent calve genetics. Even when I was a skinny HS kid I had calves that people would comment on and could dunk on a good day by 17 y/o at 6 ft tall (not too common). When I started lifting I didn’t work on my calves since they were 16ish. After a year when the rest of my body grew I decided I’d work on my calves. They grew an inch and half within 2 or 3 months working them every 5 days. So to answer the OP’s question, about 1 a week. But based on all the different responses, I’d say it’s apparent that calves are tied to genetics more than most other major muscle groups.
Unfortunately for me, I was cursed with shitty arms that grow at a snail’s pace regardless of strength gains. I’d trade good arm genetics for my calves any day.
Don’t forget you’re training your calves to a degree whenever you squat/deadlift/legpres.
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
[quote]pumped340 wrote:
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
4 times a week. Every gym day except the day I train legs. I split up soleus and gastroc work too. My calves stalled at 16" but since I started the 4x plan theyve started growing again, now only an inch smaller than my arms and neck. [/quote]
What are they at now and what do you do for them? I saw you mentioned the exercises, but as far as how many sets per exercise. Also some people tend to just take multiple calf sets to failure, do you do this or ramp up to one top set? So far I’m basically doing what I saw PX doing…ramping up to a top set doing 3x12-15 each day I workout (4x/week now)
[/quote]
I’ve found it almost impossbile to hit failure during calf training. I always seem to be able to take a few minutes then bang out some more. I dont know maybe I dont push it enough.
But my sets and reps change. Usually 4 or 5 sets of each exercise. Add weight every set. Sometimes I’ll do a few extra sets with the same top weight. Reps are anywhere from 10-25.
I have no idea what my calves started at but they were real small now they look proportional at 16.5 inches. Maybe a tiny bit smaller than that
[/quote]
Wow so 4-10 sets basically 4x per week then.
Just out of curiosity since your rep range may change a lot do you drop reps as the sets go on, so that nearly every set is doing as many reps as you can (for instance 100x20, 150x15, 200x10…each very intense) or just do typical ramping up where only the last set is really as hard as you could push (maybe 100x15, 125x15, 150x15)? Again just wondering because I notice calves is something I see people train often a lot different than their other muscles.
[/quote]
What do YOU do? How much weight are you using? How many sets and reps and how many times a week do you train them?