I think Darden estimated the value of Plazma to approx 30% of the results on Tyler’s advances, as to without supplementation (re the extreme 30-10-30).
Sounds a bit overestimated - but after having tried my own brew of “Plazma” I can actually feel the effect on muscle fullness, unlike any other supplementation. It actually provides a significant effect, but to what extent on my behalf is yet to be decided.
== Scott==
Do you think this fullness or whatever significant effect you felt is permanent or does it go away in a short time after the workout ?
As I only use my “plazma” brew pre- and peri-workout (2 dosages) and not afterwards - and not on resting days - I feel the fullness lasts about 36-48 hours approx. I also recognize the body keeps the ingested brew unlike other recovery agents I’ve tried (no need to go to the restroom in an instant). Why not post workout? I am simply too full, or maybe fed up with the somewhat bitter taste of it. LOL
Similar to a medical plasmaexpander of sorts (used as blood replacement therapy in emergency settings - or maybe more publicly known as a nordic skiing “supplement” some years ago, which made the news headlines then).
To put it simple - “Plazma” or similar brew seem to provide greater fluid (blood) volume. Sugar (cyclic dextrin) binds water + and shuttles peptopro to the (muscle) cells…
There are multiple variables to consider, especially since I’m also currently in a calorie deficit and I’ll be in a surplus when I do the program. The way I view it, If I make any progress, it is a testament to the method used in the book. It could be duplicated later with no supplements to see the difference, but I want to follow the program as written the first time around. Besides, I’ve been working out nonstop for 12 years, if I have some kind of improvement in recovery due to the supplements, I’ll definitely know it.
Dave,
You will probably note similar effects as me - which simply can’t be disguised as excercise effects themselves. But to what extent? Look forward to hear your thoughts on the supplementation.
How can I follow your training log? search?
On the training logs section of the site is where I’ll be posting it. I’ll call it something like “Dangerous Dave’s Log” perhaps something a little more creative, but you can use the search feature there and should be able to find it. Alternatively, you can click my username and scroll down to topics I’ve started in the Training Logs section, it’ll be the only one. It’ll be up Monday.
I bought the book right when it came out and did the 5 weeks at a calorie deficit. Did not do measurements, after 35+ yrs i know my body pretty well. Lost 11 lbs off the scale, with noticeable muscle growth/hardness. By the middle of week 5 i was gassed. Less than 10 secs rest was brutal, metabolically and cardio wise
I’m very excited about starting it. I am ready to push it hard! It’s been very motivating seeing everybody’s progress doing it!
The point is: are the people in here Dardens son? Same genetics? Just started training? If not, then the results would be far from what Dardens son had. If my son was not so stubborn (like me) I could probably get him pretty far in these 5 weeks. But not near these results.
My training Log is up now in that section if you’re still interested in following along.
It would be interesting to construct an extreme 30-10-30 study on a bunch of experienced trainees…
Looks good. Prepare for some grief, Dr Darden and our views dont get much love in the other forums!
Ha I’ve noticed that, but maybe they’ll enjoy the Log anyway. I know I like seeing how other people train, even if it’s far different from how I would.
Yes, I have also noticed the criticism against HIT. Come to think about some ridiculous questions re the photos of Tyler, when introducing the extreme 30-10-30. No other coach or training regime has undergone similar questioning (or?). Maybe it’s a T-nation thing, because at the gyms I visit there is always mutual or at least silent respect, no matter what people are up to.
But I can agree that the (our) first impression could have been better. One member went down the homebuilt scientific superhighway resulting in a massive misunderstanding (and led to the member being suspended).
What’s interesting is that I have yet to see the opposite happen (HIT giving others a hard time). At least not since Arthur Jones. LOL
Why on earth would I criticize a fellow trainee - no matter what strategy he or she is following?
Ok, having said this, I will probably be eaten alive by someone who thinks differently…
This man. Im 215 with a pretty thick back, massive legs. But my arms are waaaaaaay behind and I wanted to try to bring them up. I ran “the cure for puny arms” so intensely I nearly passed out each time and I saw nothing, zero, zilch.
Plenty of other coaches and training methods have been talked about, questioned, and poked fun at.
My biggest criticism is the claims being made. The body fat percentages and claimed lean mass added/lost.
I think others like myself have doubts because there isn’t many people on here who are cult like followers of darden s methods posting results. All we see is outlandish claims, and no proof.
Maybe his methods are the greatest thing since sliced bread, who knows.
Hahaha oh yeah you’re talking about that planet health guy! He was a little before my time but I went back and read a lot of his posts and got a real kick out of the craziness. To be honest, he reminds me a lot of atp, who’s probably going to come in and post a study on a topic that has no relevance to the discussion lol. But yeah I think a lot of guys like that give HIT a bad name and then claim results without proof. Also HIT has kind of fallen out of favor it seems and has somewhat evolved into DC and Fortitude Training, and even now, 30-10-30.
It seems as long as we dont venture out from our Dr Darden home we’re ok, but as soon as we do… Thinking of specifically a post in another forum about Petrella’s results in doing a Colorado Experiment recently. He’s I believe the only person who has all the machines used in the original. HIT and AJ took alot of bashing in that post, some just plain nasty!
I think you have to take any claim no matter who says it that says build your shoulders so wide you can’t get through the door with out a crow bar in 6 weeks with a grain of salt . They may not produce super quick gains but are definitely a routine to try when you get into a slump or need a change. Short of taking steroids nothing you can do can magically transform your muscles into huge slabs of meat so big you need assistants to follow you around to hold up your arms. Those are just good attention getters!
Scott