Young People are Fascinating!

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[quote]kroby wrote:
Have I kept the ten commandments? Over the past nine years, I have only abused #3. Do not misuse the name of God.
[/quote]

Well, time does not pardon sin. Besides, Jesus said:

“You have heard the commandment that says, ‘do not commit adultery’. But I say, anyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.”

Have you broken that commandment?

Also, what about the first commandment? Have you always put God first in your life? Before money or anything else?

[quote]
I was raised Episcopal; a far cry from Baptist. Are Episcopalians going to Hell for being Episcopal?[/quote]

I don’t know much about them but I believe they are a Bible believing church. What concerns me is that you were raised in this church and yet you do not know the basic gospel message. How did that happen?

[quote]
I remember God talking to Noah, saying that after the flood, He would never forsake His children again. What does that mean? How does that reconcile with the Jews of today not having a prayer of getting into Heaven, for they do not believe in Jesus.[/quote]

That is not what God said. He said that He would never again destroy the earth with water.

[quote]
We’ve talked of many negative aspects. Are there any positive? I mean, from the start, we are essentially destined to Hell, unless we believe in Jesus. And maybe even then, still not sure of Heaven, depending on our sins. Would God not give us as many chances for success as failure? Does God not want us to join Him in Heaven? It seems that the cards are stacked. Thanks, JP.[/quote]

First of all, we can be sure to go to Heaven. The sins of those who have repented and put their trust in Jesus are completely forgiven. The Bible says that in God’s eyes, our sins are as far from us as the east is from the west.

This is the good news. That is what “gospel” means, literally “good news”. If this does not sound like good news to you, that God has paid your fine for you, I don’t know what would.

347

[quote]Natural Nate wrote:
Enough about me. I’m screwed!

What about my rugby-playing friend?!

[/quote]

You are asking me about a fictional person. I have already given you my answer.

Why is it that you think you are screwed? Why do you reject the gospel? I’m asking out of curiosity.

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[quote]JPBear wrote:
Natural Nate wrote:
Enough about me. I’m screwed!

What about my rugby-playing friend?!

You are asking me about a fictional person. I have already given you my answer.

Why is it that you think you are screwed? Why do you reject the gospel? I’m asking out of curiosity.
[/quote]

But you didn’t answer the question. If this fictitious person had broken the commandments, but never knew of God, through no fault of his own, would he go to hell?

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Fictional he may be . . . but there sure as hell are thousands like him.

Reason I reject it is it sounds like a gigantic load of BS. What makes whatever version of religion you practice any more of a logical choice than any other? If someone born today had to make a choice of what religion to practice, what would make them choose yours over any other (cause apparently choosing any other leads TO HELL!!!)
Sounds like choosing one over any other today is pretty random. Unless God would like to appear in person and explain to me otherwise.

[quote]JPBear wrote:
Natural Nate wrote:
Enough about me. I’m screwed!

What about my rugby-playing friend?!

You are asking me about a fictional person. I have already given you my answer.

Why is it that you think you are screwed? Why do you reject the gospel? I’m asking out of curiosity.
[/quote]

350

Yeah, isn’t one of the commandments putting God before everything else in life? How could he follow it if he was sitting around in a jungle thousands of miles away from Jebus?

[quote]malonetd wrote:
JPBear wrote:
Natural Nate wrote:
Enough about me. I’m screwed!

What about my rugby-playing friend?!

You are asking me about a fictional person. I have already given you my answer.

Why is it that you think you are screwed? Why do you reject the gospel? I’m asking out of curiosity.

But you didn’t answer the question. If this fictitious person had broken the commandments, but never knew of God, through no fault of his own, would he go to hell?
[/quote]

351

[quote]JPBear wrote:

“You have heard the commandment that says, ‘do not commit adultery’. But I say, anyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.”

Have you broken that commandment?[/quote]
I have thought about breaking many commandments. Then I chose not to break them. Thus the Left Hand of God distinguishes itself from the Right.

[quote]JPBear wrote:
Also, what about the first commandment? Have you always put God first in your life? Before money or anything else?[/quote]
No, as I stated between the lines, I was a … person. Then I had an experience which I will not relate, as it is private between me and God. Now, I see God everywhere, all the time. It’s hard not to notice, think and act accordingly. Nine years and counting. It doesn’t require me to be a missionary. Until recently, I’ve kept my faith quite to myself. It will probably go back to being that way after this post.

[quote]JPBear wrote:
What concerns me is that you were raised in this church and yet you do not know the basic gospel message. How did that happen?[/quote]

My dear, the sermons you hear are very different from the ones I heard. Yet, we seem to have read out of the same King James Version. I’ve always focused on the Light.

[quote]JPBear wrote:

First of all, we can be sure to go to Heaven. The sins of those who have repented and put their trust in Jesus are completely forgiven. The Bible says that in God’s eyes, our sins are as far from us as the east is from the west.

This is the good news. That is what “gospel” means, literally “good news”. If this does not sound like good news to you, that God has paid your fine for you, I don’t know what would.

[/quote]

Yes, JP, I knew what “gospel” meant long ago.

Thank you very much for this insight. I am quite finished.

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[quote]malonetd wrote:
JPBear wrote:
Natural Nate wrote:
Enough about me. I’m screwed!

What about my rugby-playing friend?!

You are asking me about a fictional person. I have already given you my answer.

Why is it that you think you are screwed? Why do you reject the gospel? I’m asking out of curiosity.

But you didn’t answer the question. If this fictitious person had broken the commandments, but never knew of God, through no fault of his own, would he go to hell?
[/quote]

I’m not God so I don’t know the exact fate of the unevangelized. All I can know is what the Bible tells me, and the Bible tells me that there is only one redemption, through Jesus Christ. Beyond that, I do not know. As I mentioned before, I don’t worry that God is unjust.

353

First of all JP, you talked about the Bible. In my house, there are probably five bibles. My family Bible is Catholic, but the others are protestant. There are some chapters in the catholic flavor that aren’t in the protestant flavor, and interestingly enough, I do not see revelations in the catholic Bible. My question then is this, who did the cuttting and pasting of the Bibles, and how do i know which one I use for a guidebook for my life? In fact, I constantly hear about catholics and protestants knocking on each other. Catholocism came first, but got mighty corrupted. Which road should I choose? How do I know which road is correct? Are there two lines in heaven, one that says catholic and one that says protestant? do they both lead to the same destination? If Jesus is the ticket to heaven, then why does there need to be a divide? Why not just admit Jesus is DA MAN! and then study the Bible. Is the catholic/protestant thing worth killing other people over like they are doing in northern ireland?

Second question- you mentioned that those who have never known God would not be punished for disbeleife, but would be punished for doing bad things. What if those things they do are not bad acroding to their laws?
I am sure it is blasphemous, but I have a hard time beleiving that the “Great Spirit” of native american peoples is not the Jehovah, the Yaweh and the God of all the other faiths. In fact, it seems like everyone has the exact same God, but just different Messiahs.

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[quote]JPBear wrote:
malonetd wrote:
JPBear wrote:
Natural Nate wrote:
Enough about me. I’m screwed!

What about my rugby-playing friend?!

You are asking me about a fictional person. I have already given you my answer.

Why is it that you think you are screwed? Why do you reject the gospel? I’m asking out of curiosity.

But you didn’t answer the question. If this fictitious person had broken the commandments, but never knew of God, through no fault of his own, would he go to hell?

I’m not God so I don’t know the exact fate of the unevangelized. All I can know is what the Bible tells me, and the Bible tells me that there is only one redemption, through Jesus Christ. Beyond that, I do not know. As I mentioned before, I don’t worry that God is unjust.[/quote]

The Bible tells me a lot of things. If I were to read the Bible, and iterperet everything one hundred percent literally, then I would have to turn the other cheek, and then gouge out their eye in the same swing. I also would not want to commit adultery, but I could have as many wives as I wanted. I think, and I am not sure, but Jesus actually lays out which of the commandments are still valid after his coming, and which aren’t. For some reason, I am thinking he nulls and voids some of the commandments.

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[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
JPBear wrote:

I understand why you would see things this way, but there is a very big difference between you and me. You hope you are right, but I know I am right.

This is why religious zealots are the most dangerous people in the world.

Take heed, T-Nation…this is where the danger lies…[/quote]

I’ve been following the discussions on this forum for some time now… figured I’d finally chip in. So is religion truly some sort of prescription substance that’s only safe in small, controlled doses? Who decides how much conviction is too much?

I think that the dangerous religious fanatics of the world are those who FEEL doubt in their deity’s existance, but fear that the mere presence of doubt is a betrayal and a weakness that must be hidden at all costs. They are trying desperately to believe something they don’t really believe; their fanaticism is COUNTERFEIT conviction. The worst thing that totally convinced Christians do in the name of God is piss other people off–and depending who’s right, that might not be their fault eh? :slight_smile: Where you see corrupted actions in the church, look for corrupted belief!

Although I am a Christian I still experience doubt. I in no way blame anyone for finding the Bible or Christianity difficult to believe–but that doesn’t change what I believe about those who hear the Gospel and reject it. Concerning those who’ve never heard it, I trust in God’s love and mercy–I believe nobody ever was or will be born with no chance of salvation, although this doesn’t change the command to share the Gospel.

356

Why do you guys try to reason with religious fanatics? You simply can’t because their minds are closed to other opinions and values.

You need to realize that they are people in need of direction in their life because they can’t do it on their own. Especially the born again types.

357

[quote]Rockscar wrote:
You need to realize that they are people in need of direction in their life because they can’t do it on their own. Especially the born again types.

[/quote]

I even kind of “get” the need for direction thing. There are times in my life when I have wondered what the hell I am even doing here and wondered if anything even really matters. I can see how people who regularly think like that can get sucked into religious fanaticism. Me; I realized I’m just going to relax, try to have a little fun in life, and not take such cosmic mysteries so seriously.

358

[quote]malonetd wrote:

I even kind of “get” the need for direction thing. There are times in my life when I have wondered what the hell I am even doing here and wondered if anything even really matters. I can see how people who regularly think like that can get sucked into religious fanaticism. Me; I realized I’m just going to relax, try to have a little fun in life, and not take such cosmic mysteries so seriously.[/quote]

I imagine that the question of a possible purpose in life torments all people, regardless of religion or lack thereof. However, some atheists in past discussions have said “Who says there has to be one?” Well, so far my feeling on life is that if there’s no eternal purpose to it, it’s rather a pain in the ass to go through for absolutely nothing!

As far as relaxing, just shutting down and not worrying about it–yeah, I’ve done that, and I don’t mean before I converted (that was at about age 5…everything before that and quite a lot after is a bit hazy in my recollection). I was doing that earlier today, and I’ll be doing it again tomorrow if I don’t stop myself! I’m not talking about any particular sins that I commit or refrain from, just saying that in my personal experience, there is absolutely nothing that would pull me further into reading the Bible, going to church etc. if I just did whatever I pleased.

Unfortunately, there are misguided Christians who do try to “suck people in.” I wonder how many more centuries must pass before Christians realize guilt trips, peer pressure and conditional “love” were NOT Christ’s methods and basically tend to backfire horribly? Just a slightly more subtle version of swordpoint conversion…yes, some of his message was and is unpleasant to many, he told people exactly what he thought of them, and at times it seems he deliberately avoided using any tact–but in the end he let people decide on their own, without coercion.

359

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
…

This is why religious zealots are the most dangerous people in the world.

Take heed, T-Nation…this is where the danger lies…[/quote]

Overzealous atheists can be just as bad. Just look at Mao, Stalin etc.

With no belief in a higher power human beings can start to believe they are the most important things ever and can justify any evil.

Extremists of either type can be very dangerous.

360

Are you people serious with your questions about religion or are you just giving her a hard time?

I am not sure if Protestants believe in Purgatory (or if it is still official Catholic doctorine either), but Purgatory is a place your soul goes to after death if you are not immediately worthy of Heaven or if you are not evil enough to be sent to Hell.

This is where the unbaptised are supposed to go until their souls are deemed worthy.

Only murdrerers, rapists, Scientologists and communists go directly to Hell.

361

Yeah. Especially that Greenspan fellow.

Oh…Communists?!

I thought you said economists.

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[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
…

This is why religious zealots are the most dangerous people in the world.

Take heed, T-Nation…this is where the danger lies…

Overzealous atheists can be just as bad. Just look at Mao, Stalin etc.

With no belief in a higher power human beings can start to believe they are the most important things ever and can justify any evil.

Extremists of either type can be very dangerous.[/quote]

I agree with this. I would never impose my religious beliefs on anyone, even if what they said was very offensive to me. Our Constitution was designed to prevent this very thing from happening, btw.

I think being religious and being a power freak are two different things, as Zap’s post shows.

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[quote]BarneyFife wrote:
Second question- you mentioned that those who have never known God would not be punished for disbeleife, but would be punished for doing bad things. What if those things they do are not bad acroding to their laws?
I am sure it is blasphemous, but I have a hard time beleiving that the “Great Spirit” of native american peoples is not the Jehovah, the Yaweh and the God of all the other faiths. In fact, it seems like everyone has the exact same God, but just different Messiahs.

[/quote]

Just so you know, I think this is consistent with what Muhammad said (it is not in the Qur’an, however, so it’s hard to say for certain).

364

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Are you people serious with your questions about religion or are you just giving her a hard time?

I am not sure if Protestants believe in Purgatory (or if it is still official Catholic doctorine either), but Purgatory is a place your soul goes to after death if you are not immediately worthy of Heaven or if you are not evil enough to be sent to Hell.

This is where the unbaptised are supposed to go until their souls are deemed worthy.

Only murdrerers, rapists, Scientologists and communists go directly to Hell.[/quote]

What about muslim communists? :open_mouth:

365

[quote]Rockscar wrote:
Why do you guys try to reason with religious fanatics? You simply can’t because their minds are closed to other opinions and values.

You need to realize that they are people in need of direction in their life because they can’t do it on their own. Especially the born again types.

[/quote]

I would like to be born again, but I don’t think my mother could take it.

I’ve put on a few pounds.