[quote]malonetd wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
Varqanir wrote:
This is a bit of a highjack, but just what is it with great religions and sheep?
…
But I will never be a sheep.
I have always been proud to be a black sheep.
Which one are you?[/quote]
The cool one.
[quote]kroby wrote:
JPBear, you’ve piqued my interest. In my sincere attemps to understand exactly where you stand - and it is my impression it is very cut and dry; black and white - may I ask you some questions? I have this opportunity to peek under the covers, as it were. I will preface this by stating right here and now, that I will at no time attempt to dissuade or poo-poo you of your convictions.
Your particular brand of Christianity; are the others wrong? [/quote]
You are assuming that there are lots of different versions. There is only one Christianity, and most Protestant churches who believe that the Bible is the complete, perfect, and authoritive word of God practice it. I attend a Baptist church but would be able to attend (and have attended) most Protestant churches. There are actually only small disagreements between these different denominations and all of those differences concern minor issues that a) have no bearing on salvation and b) are arguable either way. There are false teachers out there who claim to be Christians but do not believe that the Bible is the complete and perfect word of God, or who have used modern “prophets” to re-write the scriptures. Most of these false teachers teach that we are saved through works rather than grace. I can give you greater detail on any of these things if you are interested.
Yes, Jesus said “I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
Yes. As I mentioned before, we all deserve Hell, especially me. The Bible says that there will be appropriate punishment according to what each person has done, so I would assume that Hitler will be punished to a greater degree than the average person. Either way, Hell is not a nice place. Almost all the information we have about Hell came right from Jesus. Many people assume that as long as they are a pretty good person they will get into Heaven anyway. This is not what the Bible says. If we could get to Heaven through our own merits, why would God have needed to send us a Savior?
Yes
Yes, God created Hell.
God. There is a misconception that Satan will be in charge there. This is not true, Satan and all the fallen angels will be punished along side those who have rejected God’s free gift of salvation.
[quote]
I may have more questions, and I wish to be able to ask these, again, with the same respect. I thank you for your answers and for this opportunity.[/quote]
No problem, any time.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
JPBear wrote:
I understand why you would see things this way, but there is a very big difference between you and me. You hope you are right, but I know I am right.
This is why religious zealots are the most dangerous people in the world.
Take heed, T-Nation…this is where the danger lies…[/quote]
Tell me about it…
So I’m going to Hell?
Am I going to be like stabbed with pitchforks for eternity because my parents didn’t teach me a specific way of doing whatever?
Although being a self-aware human I guess I could take up doing all that bible stuff . . . but I’m not going to.
The way this thread has gone reminds me of good ole’ Al Shades: “Of course I see God. Every time I look in the mirror.”
[quote]Natural Nate wrote:
So I’m going to Hell?
Am I going to be like stabbed with pitchforks for eternity because my parents didn’t teach me a specific way of doing whatever?
Although being a self-aware human I guess I could take up doing all that bible stuff . . . but I’m not going to.
The way this thread has gone reminds me of good ole’ Al Shades: “Of course I see God. Every time I look in the mirror.”[/quote]
Its funny how so many of us love the concept of personal responsibility until it is applied to spiritual matters.
My parents didn’t teach me about God either. It’s no excuse.
You didn’t answer my questions and apparently didn’t read my third paragraph.
[quote]JPBear wrote:
Natural Nate wrote:
So I’m going to Hell?
Am I going to be like stabbed with pitchforks for eternity because my parents didn’t teach me a specific way of doing whatever?
Although being a self-aware human I guess I could take up doing all that bible stuff . . . but I’m not going to.
The way this thread has gone reminds me of good ole’ Al Shades: “Of course I see God. Every time I look in the mirror.”
Its funny how so many of us love the concept of personal responsibility until it is applied to spiritual matters.
My parents didn’t teach me about God either. It’s no excuse.
[/quote]
[quote]Natural Nate wrote:
You didn’t answer my questions and apparently didn’t read my third paragraph.
[/quote]
If you have chosen to reject the gospel message, then at this point you are going to hell. The real question is: does that concern you?
As far as being stabbed with pitchforks, I don’t know, that isn’t in the Bible.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Natural Nate wrote:
So I’m going to Hell?
Don’t worry Nate. I’m driving the bus down. Bring beer.
You go to heaven for the weather and hell for the company.
[/quote]
Wouldn’t Hot Damn be more appropriate?
Well, kinda. Spending an eternity (I assume it’s an eternity) in Hell would indeed suck. Although if the harshness of Hell really is correlated with how “bad” a person was on earth then I have to wonder how bad it would be for someone whose only major sin was not worshiping God in a specific way. Maybe it’s not so bad except you occasionally stub your toe or something.
Also, what about small tribes of humans in Africa or New Zealand that for thousands of years had no contact with any other humans whatsoever? Did they all go to Hell because they had absolutely no knowledge of the existence of a certain religion? It’s not like there was any other human around to convert them.
What about the tribes today that we still haven’t come in contact with (I bet there’s a couple)? Are they going to Hell?
[quote]JPBear wrote:
If you have chosen to reject the gospel message, then at this point you are going to hell. The real question is: does that concern you?
[/quote]
[quote]Natural Nate wrote:
Well, kinda. Spending an eternity (I assume it’s an eternity) in Hell would indeed suck. Although if the harshness of Hell really is correlated with how “bad” a person was on earth then I have to wonder how bad it would be for someone whose only major sin was not worshiping God in a specific way. Maybe it’s not so bad except you occasionally stub your toe or something.
Also, what about small tribes of humans in Africa or New Zealand that for thousands of years had no contact with any other humans whatsoever? Did they all go to Hell because they had absolutely no knowledge of the existence of a certain religion? It’s not like there was any other human around to convert them.
What about the tribes today that we still haven’t come in contact with (I bet there’s a couple)? Are they going to Hell?
[/quote]
Yeah, and what about babies and young children that die before they have learned about God or can understand God? Are they going to Hell? If that’s the case, then he is indeed a cruel diety and I’ll just volunteer to go to hell. I don’t want to go to a “paradise” ruled by someone that clueless.
When you said you were driving a bus to hell I was reminded of those scholastic books we all used to read.
The Magic School Bus IN THE DEPTHS OF HELL!!!
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Natural Nate wrote:
So I’m going to Hell?
Don’t worry Nate. I’m driving the bus down. Bring beer.
You go to heaven for the weather and hell for the company.
[/quote]
[quote]Natural Nate wrote:
Well, kinda. Spending an eternity (I assume it’s an eternity) in Hell would indeed suck. Although if the harshness of Hell really is correlated with how “bad” a person was on earth then I have to wonder how bad it would be for someone whose only major sin was not worshiping God in a specific way. Maybe it’s not so bad except you occasionally stub your toe or something.
[/quote]
Their punishment is that they have to moderate this thread for eternity.
[quote]Natural Nate wrote:
Also, what about small tribes of humans in Africa or New Zealand that for thousands of years had no contact with any other humans whatsoever?
[/quote]
New Zealand doesn’t need God - it has rugby.
[quote]Natural Nate wrote:
Well, kinda. Spending an eternity (I assume it’s an eternity) in Hell would indeed suck. Although if the harshness of Hell really is correlated with how “bad” a person was on earth then I have to wonder how bad it would be for someone whose only major sin was not worshiping God in a specific way. Maybe it’s not so bad except you occasionally stub your toe or something.
[/quote]
First of all, I hope I have not given you the impression that Hell won’t be that bad if you have been a decent person. I personally would not want to spend eternity in any part of Hell.
Jesus described Hell as a place of torment, where those who dwell there will see all those in heaven and will cry out for help, but will be unable to cross over. He also said that there would be weeping and gnashing of teeth, darkness, and a lake of fire where the worm never dies. You are not going to be having a keg party with your buddies. (I hope that this will at least will stop some of you from using that ridiculous statement “Jesus was just a great teacher.” Well, this is what he was teaching. He had a message and it wasn’t wishy-washy)
Of course God will not punish those who have never heard of Jesus for rejecting Him. But He will punish them for everything else they have done. Babies will not be punished at all because babies have never sinned. I don’t really worry about if God will be fair or not because I know that God is just, and that we have done nothing to deserve the gift of salvation.
You seem to imply that your only sin against God is not worshiping him in a certain way. God’s law is summarized in the 10 commandments. Have you kept the 10 commandments?
This could be, quite possibly, the lamest thread I’ve ever seen on the entire intarweb.
So this hypothetical tribal dude in New Zealand (who probably plays rugby) will spend eternity in Hell if one day he breaks the 5th commandment (which he doesn’t know about) because his parents don’t like rugby?!
He’ll spend an eternity in a lake of fire with some sort of “worm” because of that. Yeah that makes a lot of sense.
Looks like I’ve broken a few commandments there. Uh, any quick fix to that or am I doomed to Hell?
[quote]JPBear wrote:
First of all, I hope I have not given you the impression that Hell won’t be that bad if you have been a decent person. I personally would not want to spend eternity in any part of Hell.
Jesus described Hell as a place of torment, where those who dwell there will see all those in heaven and will cry out for help, but will be unable to cross over. He also said that there would be weeping and gnashing of teeth, darkness, and a lake of fire where the worm never dies. You are not going to be having a keg party with your buddies. (I hope that this will at least will stop some of you from using that ridiculous statement “Jesus was just a great teacher.” Well, this is what he was teaching. He had a message and it wasn’t wishy-washy)
Of course God will not punish those who have never heard of Jesus for rejecting Him. But He will punish them for everything else they have done. Babies will not be punished at all because babies have never sinned. I don’t really worry about if God will be fair or not because I know that God is just, and that we have done nothing to deserve the gift of salvation.
You seem to imply that your only sin against God is not worshiping him in a certain way. God’s law is summarized in the 10 commandments. Have you kept the 10 commandments?
[/quote]
Have I kept the ten commandments? Over the past nine years, I have only abused #3. Do not misuse the name of God.
God punished Adam and Eve by throwing them out of Eden. So, the sins of our father rests in our hands. Ah, but we are born in sin, too.
Is creation a sin? Ah, that’s why we get baptised. And then confirmed.
I was raised Episcopal; a far cry from Baptist. Are Episcopalians going to Hell for being Episcopal?
I remember God talking to Noah, saying that after the flood, He would never forsake His children again. What does that mean? How does that reconcile with the Jews of today not having a prayer of getting into Heaven, for they do not believe in Jesus.
We’ve talked of many negative aspects. Are there any positive? I mean, from the start, we are essentially destined to Hell, unless we believe in Jesus. And maybe even then, still not sure of Heaven, depending on our sins. Would God not give us as many chances for success as failure? Does God not want us to join Him in Heaven? It seems that the cards are stacked. Thanks, JP.
[quote]Natural Nate wrote:
Looks like I’ve broken a few commandments there. Uh, any quick fix to that or am I doomed to Hell?
[/quote]
I already told you there is only one way to be saved. Do you really not get it?
Except for the folks in Iowa: they’re already in Heaven.
Enough about me. I’m screwed!
What about my rugby-playing friend?!
[quote]JPBear wrote:
Natural Nate wrote:
Looks like I’ve broken a few commandments there. Uh, any quick fix to that or am I doomed to Hell?
I already told you there is only one way to be saved. Do you really not get it? [/quote]