You Vs. a Pit Bull

Off Topic
147

[quote]adubswils wrote:
And you really think that these dogs are not dangerous in urban settings? Why dont you ask HeavyThrower about his gentle critter.

[/quote]

Additionally, most of us probably do not recognize you but are familiar with HT.

If you are going to use him as an example to bolster your point why don’t you provide a link to the thread where his “critter” is discussed or better yet invite him to this thread to corroborate what you are alluding to.

Otherwise it is just more of the same behavior from you.

148

first of all a big thanks to Tribulus for attempting to spread a little knowledge. Great effort but unfortunately this subject as you started breeds ignorance like no other.

It is fairly surprising in a forum such as this that more people don’t stop to think that the media builds alot of negative rhetoric on the breed for the sake of ratings. I mean its the same story with steroids, pro-hormones you name it, and yet while we are quick to spot the BS on these topics for some reason we assume that the “information” on pit bulls must be true.

I won’t try to convince anyone otherwise, but i will say if you truly want to know about the breed in the way it was meant to be please read all of the books by Richard Stratton, they do a great job of explaining the nature of the breed.

Just one more thing, if you would just think for a minute you would understand that the last thing in the world you want in a dog fight is a dog that is people aggressive…its attentions would then be on the observers and not the opponent.

Dog fighting in the old days was not the blood and gore fest that the media wants you to think it is. Granted the “thugs” that run around in the cities fighting mongrels should all be shot, i will give you that. Here is my boy Hank, my best friend.

149

My wife was attacked a few months ago by a pit bull. We have an Argentinian Mastiff named Tug. He was about 14 months at the time and weighed 85lbs. She was out walking Tug, let him off the leash to do his business when she noticed a family with a pit bull also not on a leash.

Tug ran over to the pit and started playing. The pit was nice and played back. The pit’s owner noticed the play was getting rough and separated the two dogs. My wife came over, put Tug on a leash and walked away.

They got to the other end of the park and the pit showed up again. The dogs started to re-sniff each other and my wife decided to walk back toward the pit’s owner.

Then it happened. The pit lunged at my wife’s hand and almost had a full lock. Instinctively she pulled her hand back only to tear her pinky finger close to the bone. The pit then went for her knee and almost locked down again.

Tug rose to the occasion. He tackled the pit, got the pit on its back and proceeded to defend my wife. He punctured the pit’s belly and neck and blood was everywhere. The pit’s owner started yelling at my wife to get Tug off of his dog. My wife yelled out “F…k you, your dog attacked me!” She was bleeding, the pit was spewing blood, and Tug had some bite marks and minor injuries.

The neighbors heard the commotion and ran out. The pit’s owner stuck his fingers in most of the punture wounds and rushed to the vet. The neighbors drove my wife to the gym (where I was at, oblivious to anything).

She had to have 4stiches in her pinky finger and was treated for 2 puncture wounds on her knee. Her finger is fine but her knee still gives her problems. Her knee was punctured to the kneecap. Tug had minor lacerations on his face and neck.

The pit survived, suprisingly, but it took major surgery and a couple of days in the hospital.

I went over to their house the next day ready to kill. I was gonna beat the life out of the owner and kill the dog. My wife, being the saint that she is, made me promise not to get violent. She just wanted to forget the whole thing. After a huge fight, I gave in.

She didn’t press charges and even stood up for the dog when animal control came to put the dog down. Like I said, she’s a saint.

Now she doesn’t walk Tug unless I’m around. Luckily we have a huge backyard for the two to play in. She has a big fear of pits now, also.

Tug is now allowed to get on the couch, sleep in our bed, and eat people food. Go figure.

150

[quote]2StrongHayn wrote:
My wife was attacked a few months ago by a pit bull. We have an Argentinian Mastiff named Tug. He was about 14 months at the time and weighed 85lbs. She was out walking Tug, let him off the leash to do his business when she noticed a family with a pit bull also not on a leash.

Tug ran over to the pit and started playing. The pit was nice and played back. The pit’s owner noticed the play was getting rough and separated the two dogs. My wife came over, put Tug on a leash and walked away.

They got to the other end of the park and the pit showed up again. The dogs started to re-sniff each other and my wife decided to walk back toward the pit’s owner.

Then it happened. The pit lunged at my wife’s hand and almost had a full lock. Instinctively she pulled her hand back only to tear her pinky finger close to the bone. The pit then went for her knee and almost locked down again.

Tug rose to the occasion. He tackled the pit, got the pit on its back and proceeded to defend my wife. He punctured the pit’s belly and neck and blood was everywhere. The pit’s owner started yelling at my wife to get Tug off of his dog. My wife yelled out “F…k you, your dog attacked me!” She was bleeding, the pit was spewing blood, and Tug had some bite marks and minor injuries.

The neighbors heard the commotion and ran out. The pit’s owner stuck his fingers in most of the punture wounds and rushed to the vet. The neighbors drove my wife to the gym (where I was at, oblivious to anything).

She had to have 4stiches in her pinky finger and was treated for 2 puncture wounds on her knee. Her finger is fine but her knee still gives her problems. Her knee was punctured to the kneecap. Tug had minor lacerations on his face and neck.

The pit survived, suprisingly, but it took major surgery and a couple of days in the hospital.

I went over to their house the next day ready to kill. I was gonna beat the life out of the owner and kill the dog. My wife, being the saint that she is, made me promise not to get violent. She just wanted to forget the whole thing. After a huge fight, I gave in.

She didn’t press charges and even stood up for the dog when animal control came to put the dog down. Like I said, she’s a saint.

Now she doesn’t walk Tug unless I’m around. Luckily we have a huge backyard for the two to play in. She has a big fear of pits now, also.

Tug is now allowed to get on the couch, sleep in our bed, and eat people food. Go figure.[/quote]

I’m sorry you and your wife had to experience this. I just have a couple questions if you don’t mind.

Why was either dog off their leash in the first place? And, what kind of pitbull was this, or was it just a mixed breed with bully features?

151

[quote]2StrongHayn wrote:
My wife was attacked a few months ago by a pit bull. We have an Argentinian Mastiff named Tug. He was about 14 months at the time and weighed 85lbs. She was out walking Tug, let him off the leash to do his business when she noticed a family with a pit bull also not on a leash.

Tug ran over to the pit and started playing. The pit was nice and played back. The pit’s owner noticed the play was getting rough and separated the two dogs. My wife came over, put Tug on a leash and walked away.

They got to the other end of the park and the pit showed up again. The dogs started to re-sniff each other and my wife decided to walk back toward the pit’s owner.

Then it happened. The pit lunged at my wife’s hand and almost had a full lock. Instinctively she pulled her hand back only to tear her pinky finger close to the bone. The pit then went for her knee and almost locked down again.

Tug rose to the occasion. He tackled the pit, got the pit on its back and proceeded to defend my wife. He punctured the pit’s belly and neck and blood was everywhere. The pit’s owner started yelling at my wife to get Tug off of his dog. My wife yelled out “F…k you, your dog attacked me!” She was bleeding, the pit was spewing blood, and Tug had some bite marks and minor injuries.

The neighbors heard the commotion and ran out. The pit’s owner stuck his fingers in most of the punture wounds and rushed to the vet. The neighbors drove my wife to the gym (where I was at, oblivious to anything).

She had to have 4stiches in her pinky finger and was treated for 2 puncture wounds on her knee. Her finger is fine but her knee still gives her problems. Her knee was punctured to the kneecap. Tug had minor lacerations on his face and neck.

The pit survived, suprisingly, but it took major surgery and a couple of days in the hospital.

I went over to their house the next day ready to kill. I was gonna beat the life out of the owner and kill the dog. My wife, being the saint that she is, made me promise not to get violent. She just wanted to forget the whole thing. After a huge fight, I gave in.

She didn’t press charges and even stood up for the dog when animal control came to put the dog down. Like I said, she’s a saint.

Now she doesn’t walk Tug unless I’m around. Luckily we have a huge backyard for the two to play in. She has a big fear of pits now, also.

Tug is now allowed to get on the couch, sleep in our bed, and eat people food. Go figure.[/quote]

Sorry your wife got bit, that’s terrible.

I remembered you from a different thread and you referred to your dog as an American Bulldog/dalmation mix who basically didn’t even have enough training to not drag you guys around on a leash, hence the name “Tug.” Here is the link.

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1440199&pageNo=2#1444288

So which is it?!?

Wether you like it or not, you own at some level a bully breed, pal. And if it is an Argentenian mastiff, it was initially bred as a fighting dog.

Your post really comes across more as bravado that your dog defeated a “pit.” Without access to the “pit’s” pedigree or understanding the motivation of it’s owners I don’t find this to be important information at all.

Frankly, neither of the dogs should have been off lead and once you saw the two of them were escalating in their initial encounter should have never been allowed to reengage.

They sound like two poorly socialized and under trained dogs that happened to cross paths.

What you are describing is NOT responosible dog ownership and is exactly why things like this occur.

My advice would be to take your dog to obedience school, teach him to walk on a lead and keep him there.

152

Yeah, that was me. We got the dog from the pound and was told about the American Bulldog/Dalmation. One of my wife’s friends called him an Argentine Mastiff so we looked it up. And yes, that what he was.

I asked the owner and he said his dog was a pit bull. Apparently, she was in heat was his reasoning. Point is, yes, neither dog was on a leash, but when the incident happened, Tug was leashed. The other dog wasn’t.

I understand that my story may come across as bravado, but that was not my intention.

Like was mentioned earlier, it takes a certain kind of person to own a pit bull. And apparently mastiffs, also.

My wife let him off the leash because she thought no one was around and wanted Tug to run. Apparently, the other owners had the same idea. Live and learn, I guess.

Tug is now obedient and docile. Not perfect, as the puppy in him is still playful. My wife has had dogs her whole life but Tug is my first dog. I’ve had a lot of misconceptions about owning a dog and am still learning.

153

[quote]2StrongHayn wrote:
Yeah, that was me. We got the dog from the pound and was told about the American Bulldog/Dalmation. One of my wife’s friends called him an Argentine Mastiff so we looked it up. And yes, that what he was.

I asked the owner and he said his dog was a pit bull. Apparently, she was in heat was his reasoning. Point is, yes, neither dog was on a leash, but when the incident happened, Tug was leashed. The other dog wasn’t.

I understand that my story may come across as bravado, but that was not my intention.

Like was mentioned earlier, it takes a certain kind of person to own a pit bull. And apparently mastiffs, also.

My wife let him off the leash because she thought no one was around and wanted Tug to run. Apparently, the other owners had the same idea. Live and learn, I guess.

Tug is now obedient and docile. Not perfect, as the puppy in him is still playful. My wife has had dogs her whole life but Tug is my first dog. I’ve had a lot of misconceptions about owning a dog and am still learning.[/quote]

I am sure others will chime in but I will offer some additional thoughts.

We take our dogs to off lead dog parks regularly and sometimes people show up and walk their dogs around on lead (bad idea).

What I have learned from this is in an encounter b/t two dogs where one is on lead and the other is not, the likelihood of it escalating is about 100X that of two off lead dogs and probably 1000X that when both dogs are on lead. (obviously)

Being on lead brings about a different mindset in most dogs, in particular when one is loose.

I never allow a loose dog to approach my dogs when they are on lead. If I have time I put my dogs in a sit/stay and engage the other dog in a manner to discourage it from coming near us. Additionally, I never ever allow my dogs to engage a dog on lead when they are off lead (at the dog park).

They know two very important commands. The first is “Stop,” which is imperative and the second is “out” which basically is something I taught them by keeping about a 15 foot free lead on them and gently deterring them from engaging dogs at the park.

Now wether in a pack of dogs or one on one if they hear me say “out” they walk off or if I say it on the approach will basically do a drive by sniffing and keep moving.

154

[quote]2StrongHayn wrote:
My wife was attacked a few months ago by a pit bull. >>>[/quote]

This is unfortunate and I too am sorry for the incident. However I could tell a dozen true stories a lot worse where no breed of ill repute was involved at all.

Additionally, no responsibly bred and raised APBT would EVER attack a human unprovoked. I know of no instances where this has been the case. Provocation need not be intentional or even known and the “prey” more often than not lives the rest of their lives under the mistaken impression that “that insane dog just came at me” simply because they know nothing about dogs and really believe they did nothing to prompt the attack. I have no idea if this was the case for you because I have nothing further than what you say to go on.

I’m inclined to believe that this specimen was a less than very well bred knock off due to the fact that he lost a fight to a mutt, no offense.

A few facts:

1> The American Pit Bull Terrier, once known simply as “bulldog” is inextricably defined by it’s long history of being bred for deep gameness in organized pit fighting.

2> Regardless of anything, anybody tries to tell you, in it’s heyday when ownership was rare outside of the “fighting fancy” this breed of dog was an utterly awe inspiring athlete, entirely without fear, was absolutely lethal to any, ANY other breed of dog regardless of size and absolutely the safest of ANY breed around people including children. The fighting men of old were towering experts at insuring that this was the case.

3> I don’t mean to offend modern owners who like to boast of their dogs “laid back, mellow” temperament, but the dogs of this golden era were characterized by a high strung, slapstick, dopey, goofball, comic and innocently mischievous personality. They might destroy your bicycle or be found rummaging around in the kitchen sink if left unattended. That carried over into the pit which brings me to my next point.

4> These dogs fought, not out of the cruelty of their owners, not out of snarling, frothing insanity or even hatred of the other dog, but because they LOVED to fight. They fought silent and in fact uttering a noise was ruled an instant forfeit as was a “turn” which meant showing any gesture of retreat whatsoever, but usually turning the head and or shoulder away from the opponent. I’m talking about the old time organized dog fighting which was practiced by highly responsible, thoroughgoing expert pit men who attended events dressed in suits and ties. Not a bunch of crack dealers on a roof in East Detroit. The conditioning period was known as a “keep” and would impress olympic tri-athletes.

5> That dog and all that it was, while surviving to some degree in modern specimens, is all, but extinct and died when organized dog fighting was made illegal. Any dog not bred according to these expert traditions is not a true “pit” bull regardless of how physically impressive they may be. It was the game bred bloodlines that made them what they were.

6> All bets are off now regarding what you may end up with though man aggressive specimens are still extremely rare and breed dominance still exists among at least responsibly bred animals.

7> Like I said in a previous post, a large number of these “pit bull” attacks are carried out by dogs that are clearly lousy specimens and some by dogs that only even vaguely resemble an APBT at all.

For the record I wouldn’t walk ANY dog off lead in any populated area today. Finster was the best dog I ever had and would have been a serious danger to other dogs had I not taken up that training early on. All I had to do was clear my throat in the presence of somebody else’s dog and he would go into a sit stay albeit somewhat pained.

I was walking him one time and some mongrel shepherd looking thing came shooting across the street. It was about a foot taller than him and stopped right in front of him and was snarling and barking, actually spitting on his face. I had already told him to stand down. He sat there, every muscle in his body tensed, looking at me sideways with this sad face that said “can’t I kill him please? jist fer a minute?” If the dog would’ve actually attacked him I probably still would’ve handled it myself and not let him fight back.

The owner came yelling the dog’s name down her driveway “you come back here this minute, you scared the hell outta that little dog!!!”. She apologized profusely and told me “he wouldn’t have hurt him, he just gets a little carried away”. I said thank you, I know and walked off.

155

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
[/quote]

Tirib, You’re obviously very knowledgeable about these dogs and I enjoy reading your posts very much. However, you are caught up in the glorification of these dogs and your not thinking straight.

Dog fighting is brutal and barbaric. It doesn’t matter if the dogs like to fight or if the people are wearing suits or are crack heads. The “sport” is outlawed for good reason. If a dog enjoys fighting, he needs to be protected from himself and those who would encourage him to fight. He should also not be allowed to breed. A dog bread to protect is one thing, a dog bread to enjoy fighting is another.

156

[quote]on edge wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:

Tirib, You’re obviously very knowledgeable about these dogs and I enjoy reading your posts very much. However, you are caught up in the glorification of these dogs and your not thinking straight.

Dog fighting is brutal and barbaric. It doesn’t matter if the dogs like to fight or if the people are wearing suits or are crack heads. The “sport” is outlawed for good reason. If a dog enjoys fighting, he needs to be protected from himself and those who would encourage him to fight. He should also not be allowed to breed. A dog bread to protect is one thing, a dog bread to enjoy fighting is another.[/quote]

I’ve been thinking about them for quite a few years now and am pretty sure I know the whole story. What kills me about this is there will people watching UFC while they post about how dog fighting is evil. There is more blood in an average match in the octagon… between men… then there ever was in the dog pit, which BTW wasn’t a pit at all, but rather simply a fenced area.

Fights to the death were exceedingly rare and unintentional when they did happen because a dog that lost without turning would be saved by his owner forfeiting the match. A game dog in turnless loss may be even more game than the winner and just not as physically capable thus making him a superior stud dog.

Gameness, the unwillingness to even consider surrender at all cost was paramount over all other traits and made this breed what it was. The very gameness in the pit translated directly into every other superior quality including human friendliness.

There never would have been an APBT were it not for serious pit fighters who BTW truly loved their dogs more than any namby pamby peta type ever could. Indeed preventing a game bred bulldog from fighting is like denying a lab the chance to chase a ball.

Urban dog fighting today is cruel and carried on by thugs who know nothing of what they’re doing. It’s simply false to assume that historic pit fighting was anything like it.

158

I still get into these conversations every so often and I should know better by now. It’s always the same. A range of attitudes from totally hysterical ignorance on one end that would have all performance breeds expunged from the Earth to people who even own and love contemporary pits, but are generally unwilling to accept the facts about their dogs and everything in between.

There are few topics where misconception, misinformation and tragically misplaced “compassion” rule so unshakably supreme as this one.

To be fully honest I lament the fact that control of this breed was lost by the old time pit men. Before the late 1970’s 99% of pit bulldogs were owned by game breeders, fighting men or very selectively chosen friends. They wisely foresaw what would happen if they became widely owned by “civilians” and guarded them like their own children. It was a different dog then and deserved to have it’s heritage preserved.

159

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
The conditioning period was known as a “keep” and would impress olympic tri-athletes.
[/quote]

Interesting. What sort of stuff did they do? Mainly treadmill and springpole? I suppose it must have been like training human fighters - a little of everything.

160

[quote]pushharder wrote:
on edge wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:

Tirib, You’re obviously very knowledgeable about these dogs and I enjoy reading your posts very much. However, you are caught up in the glorification of these dogs and your not thinking straight.

Dog fighting is brutal and barbaric. It doesn’t matter if the dogs like to fight or if the people are wearing suits or are crack heads. The “sport” is outlawed for good reason. If a dog enjoys fighting, he needs to be protected from himself and those who would encourage him to fight. He should also not be allowed to breed. A dog bread to protect is one thing, a dog bread to enjoy fighting is another.

You just inadvertently made the case for outlawing the UFC, boxing, and for that matter, the NFL. No, don’t say, “But that’s different”, because in all three sports the participants enjoy fighting, need to be protected from themselves, and I guess, should not be allowed to breed.[/quote]

It’s different because people have a choice.

161

I love dogs (and know enough to treat them like dogs instead of people), but I’ve never owned any bulldogs, so I can’t refute a lot of the things here. But I’ve enjoyed the debate quite a bit.

IMO, we’re talking about two different situations. One in which you are attacked by a random animal on the street, and the other where you are attacked by a trained animal such as the ones Tribulus trains. Much like when dealing with human aggressors, training is everything.

If you’re up against a dog trained to deal with humans (multiple trained bites, experiance etc), you’re screwed. Everything you can think of to deal with it is probably something the trainer thought of and trained the dog to counter. All you can do is get away/try to protect your vitals and hope you get lucky.

If we’re talking about a non-trained dog, some of the tactics mentioned here might work, but as someone already said it’s not going to end well for either of you.

162

[quote]on edge wrote:
pushharder wrote:
on edge wrote:

You just inadvertently made the case for outlawing the UFC, boxing, and for that matter, the NFL. No, don’t say, “But that’s different”, because in all three sports the participants enjoy fighting, need to be protected from themselves, and I guess, should not be allowed to breed.

It’s different because people have a choice.[/quote]

People also have an awareness of consequences, most of them. The ones who are unable to do a simple risk/benefit analysis and who are inclined to violence definitely pose a significant threat to others. Dogs are unable to perform risk/benefit analyses. This is why they pose a threat most sporting/fighting people don’t.

But I feel no particular animosity toward the fighting breeds. I agree that they’re more dangerous to the people they attack simply because they’re stronger and/or better skilled at fighting than other breeds, but my animosity is for people who fail to properly train their animals of whatever breed.

Cocker Spaniels and Labs are toward the top of the bite list, I believe. I deeply resent the people who allow their dogs to become menaces. A spaniel probably wouldn’t hurt me more than superficially, but a lab could do someone my size serious damage. That spaniel, though, could disfigure a child. And some do just that.

It’s not only the fighting breeds. They’re just the only dogs powerful enough to scare the bigger guys posting here. It’s the negligent owners who really make me feel threatened, and that’s who I’d like to see outlawed.

I wish those of you strong enough to talk about tossing around and splitting the rib cages of hundred pound dogs would do me the favor of beating up the owners who don’t train and can’t control their dogs (of whatever breed).

Also, this:

[quote]What I have learned from this is in an encounter b/t two dogs where one is on lead and the other is not, the likelihood of it escalating is about 100X that of two off lead dogs and probably 1000X that when both dogs are on lead. (obviously)

Being on lead brings about a different mindset in most dogs, in particular when one is loose.

I never allow a loose dog to approach my dogs when they are on lead. If I have time I put my dogs in a sit/stay and engage the other dog in a manner to discourage it from coming near us. Additionally, I never ever allow my dogs to engage a dog on lead when they are off lead (at the dog park). [/quote]

Assuming that I’m not prepared to engage an approaching dog unless it seems friendly enough that there wouldn’t be much worry about escalation anyway, would best practice for me be to drop the lead? Or is having it attached to the collar still problematic?

163

Trib, what about mace?

164

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
on edge wrote:
pushharder wrote:
on edge wrote:

What I have learned from this is in an encounter b/t two dogs where one is on lead and the other is not, the likelihood of it escalating is about 100X that of two off lead dogs and probably 1000X that when both dogs are on lead. (obviously)

Being on lead brings about a different mindset in most dogs, in particular when one is loose.

I never allow a loose dog to approach my dogs when they are on lead. If I have time I put my dogs in a sit/stay and engage the other dog in a manner to discourage it from coming near us. Additionally, I never ever allow my dogs to engage a dog on lead when they are off lead (at the dog park).

Assuming that I’m not prepared to engage an approaching dog unless it seems friendly enough that there wouldn’t be much worry about escalation anyway, would best practice for me be to drop the lead? Or is having it attached to the collar still problematic?

[/quote]

I’m very interested in this question also. I had two dogs when I was a child and since we lived in the country I never walked them. I would always keep my dog on a leash, but every other dog owner in the city of Richmond refuses to use one.

Kind of funny story, my last apartment had a lot of green space, so this yuppie bitch would walk her two Golden Retrievers around our complex, every morning at 11:35, like clock work. And every morning, one of her dogs, his name was Charlie, would run off, and she would spend the next 5 to 10 minutes calling after him.

“Charlie!”

“CHARLIE!!”

“Charlie?”

Every fucking day. I lived there for 2 1/2 years.

165

[quote]lurker26 wrote:
<<< IMO, we’re talking about two different situations. One in which you are attacked by a random animal on the street, and the other where you are attacked by a trained animal such as the ones Tribulus trains. Much like when dealing with human aggressors, training is everything.

If you’re up against a dog trained to deal with humans (multiple trained bites, experiance etc), you’re screwed. Everything you can think of to deal with it is probably something the trainer thought of and trained the dog to counter. All you can do is get away/try to protect your vitals and hope you get lucky. >>>
[/quote]

This is a great couple of points I should have elaborated on earlier.

The first is full of paradoxical ironies. A well bred, well trained dog will cause severe damage if forced to do so depending on what type of training were talking about. He also will release on command and can even be taught to put a man in an automatic “hold at bay”, again depending on how and for what purpose he’s was trained. A hold at bay is where the dog will watch a perp without biting unless he moves at which time he will begin or resume the attack.

This can be very useful in home protection for instance where you can have him keep a man until you can call the police. Finster didn’t even need a command for that anymore. He knew if I made someone stand there with their hands up his job was to make sure they didn’t go anywhere. As long as they stood there and didn’t move he would sit and stare them down. Try to run and he would prevent that until you stood there again with your hands up.

You won’t get that with an ill bred, poorly or untrained animal. You also have a better chance of getting away with an inferior animal. So a well conditioned dog is not going to attack unprovoked, but is one million times more difficult to defeat if he does have to attack.

Some mongrel alley beast is one million times more likely to take matters into his own paws, but is much more vulnerable to resistance because they usually don’t have the innate character and have almost certainly not had to deal with it before.

Any dog I ever cleared for work would be no threat to anybody who didn’t earn it and would do mare damage than the perp decided they were willing to endure. Surrender and you’re fine. Fight and all bets are off depending on the dog. A very large number of dogs will be turned down for bite work by reputable, responsible trainers for a variety of reasons. Or at the very least adjust the training accordingly for borderline cases.

I have to workout and will check back later. There were a couple other comments here I found interesting as well.

166

[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
<<< Assuming that I’m not prepared to engage an approaching dog unless it seems friendly enough that there wouldn’t be much worry about escalation anyway, would best practice for me be to drop the lead? Or is having it attached to the collar still problematic? >>>[/quote]

It’s not possible to lay out rules for how to handle situations for people with a less than expert grasp of dog behavior. My rule is (for average dog owners in general) better safe than sorry and any course of action is justifiable if it’s done in the interest of human safety. If somebody’s dog is under assault from another dog and letting go, in other words abandoning the dog, is what they feel is necessary to come away safely then so be it.

We can argue about it later. I would rather see that than some over affectionate owner wind up with a piece of their, or their children’s face removed in the name of being an animal lover.

Every dog is different, every person is different, every situation with different dogs and people are different. Even if someone could expound perfect rules for every situation there’s a vast difference between knowing and doing when forced to respond in a split second situation.

I’ve taken a my share of live accidental bites (and have the scars to prove it). Some were my fault and some were poor handling. They were all training situations. I’ve never been bitten on the street. In any case, even with plenty of experience and expertise as well as other guys there with even more than me it’s tough to instantly come up with a plan to minimize the situation nevermind trying to tell an average owner what they should do.