You Mother Frackers

[quote]doogie wrote:
On NPR this morning they were talking about a couple of companies who have developed markers to put in fracking solution so they can tell which well, if any, is polluting the water supply. The oil industry spokesperson was totally against it, but could only come up with the “not wanting to see over regulation and such” argument. He didn’t address why this is a bad idea at all. I’m in South Texas, working for a company very much involved with the oil and gas industry, but that made me a little dubious.[/quote]

I read about this kind of stuff too and makes me suspicious too.

[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
The produced water that sometimes has radioactive material and arsenic among other toxic heavy metals that sometimes has higher salinity by an order of magnitude than sea water from great depths? I agree, that’s an additional hazard.
[/quote]

Just so you know produced water is water that is produced along with oil. You inject it back into the formation (or a like formation) to keep pressures up, albeit at a distance from the wellbore itself to prevent watering out of your well.

[quote]
And just so we’re all clear on this, we are all referring to high pressure, high volume hydrolytic fracturing, as opposed to the kind of fracking that’s been going on for 100 years? Just getting that out there before someone comes in and tells us about how fracking has been going on forever because there is a nugget of truth there but it’s a very small nugget. [/quote]

Actually, it is the same. All that happens now is a bridge plug or packer or whatnot is put in (really two, one at the top and bottom of the target zone) and the pressure is concentrated in the the formation in question, instead of the entire length of the tubing.

You unscrew (or drill through depending on how you are doing it) the sets and move up the pipe, specific target by specific target.

Not only is less total pressure needed (because it is focused), but because you are not pressuring the upper portions of the wellbore (where you can have fresh water behind pipe), it is far less likely to cause a rupture.

In short, the sheer stupidity of the arguments is shocking.

++++++++++++++

As am aside, I got a kick out of Matt Damon complaining about “Burning Creek” burning due to gas coming to the surface.

Burning Creek has had that name for a couple hundred years.

Gee, I wonder how it got its name? Could it be normally-occurring natural gas seepage that was spotted and why the original drillers picked that spot to drill?

No! Next thing people will tell me that tar sands, balls, and seepages were noted in Genensis in areas of the now-middle east where there is oil production. Oh wait.[/quote]

My biggest concerns about the fracking fluids getting into ground water is improperly laid well casings and improperly laid liners for containment ponds. I really don’t think it’ll seep from into the groundwater from the depths it’s being blasted into. I also don’t buy into the earthquakes deal. There’s also the equipment used to move and pump the fracking fluid into the well which can have leaks.

In the perfect world of Perfectania where everything is installed perfectly and no leaks occur and human error never happens, I would think fracking is pretty damned safe. But that isn’t always so.

I’ve also talked to a couple of workers who directly deal with the fracking fluids and heard about the PPE they have to wear and how they can still smell that stuff through their respirators. I know this isn’t scientific or anything… but all the housecleaning supplies around my house don’t require that kind of equipment and there sure isn’t anywhere near that level of smell from them.

But anyway, as far as leaks and that thing, is your only argument that the fracking fluids are safe despite most people not even knowing what all them are because ‘proprietary blends’ don’t have to be disclosed?

And it’s good to be chatting to someone who has experience and knowledge about this stuff whereas my knowledge is purely academic. Genuinely, thanks.

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]doogie wrote:
On NPR this morning they were talking about a couple of companies who have developed markers to put in fracking solution so they can tell which well, if any, is polluting the water supply. The oil industry spokesperson was totally against it, but could only come up with the “not wanting to see over regulation and such” argument. He didn’t address why this is a bad idea at all. I’m in South Texas, working for a company very much involved with the oil and gas industry, but that made me a little dubious.[/quote]

I read about this kind of stuff too and makes me suspicious too. [/quote]

I’d say suspicion is reasonable in this case.

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:
My biggest concerns about the fracking fluids getting into ground water is improperly laid well casings
[/quote]

This is not possible. The “casing” is the outside of the well and generally has cement behind the pipe, confirmed with a log, at least in the areas where there is water.

But more to the point, you pressure the frac zone with another pipe (think a straw inside a straw). You have to have a double-break and there is even more fluid in the annulus. If there was a bust, you’d immediately know you lost pressure, turn off your pumps and the pump the fluid OUT.

You don’t just put frac fluid in a containmnet pond, if nothing else because it’s expensive and it would evaporate.

You put water in ponds that is, in turn, mixed with acid. This is contained in a double-hulled tank that itself sits in a lined and bermed area in the event of a fuck up.

This is true. Hoses bust lose. Mexicans drive trucks into each other. But you are talking about a couple of gallons of stuff in that circumstance, which is immediatly known and cleaned up.

Well sure. There are various kinds of acid in use, just like any industrial place.

We use HCL (aka muriatic acid — what goes in a swiming pool and is made in your stomach). It’ll fuck you up at high concentrations.

It also makes your toilet bowel clean and white and dissolves rather promptly in nature and is zero threat to the overall environment.

+++++++++++

I’d also note that the government is the LEAST effective deterrant to environmental damage.

Typically, the mineral estate and surface estate are servered – that is, someone, long ago sold or leased the oil and gas rights and kept or sold the surface.

This translates into Farmer John or Ranch Bob coming out to your location where you are doing whatever and making sure you are not fucking up his surface or his water.

If you do fuck up, he calls his lawyer and you get your checkbook out.

No government needed.

[quote]smh23 wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]doogie wrote:
On NPR this morning they were talking about a couple of companies who have developed markers to put in fracking solution so they can tell which well, if any, is polluting the water supply. The oil industry spokesperson was totally against it, but could only come up with the “not wanting to see over regulation and such” argument. He didn’t address why this is a bad idea at all. I’m in South Texas, working for a company very much involved with the oil and gas industry, but that made me a little dubious.[/quote]

I read about this kind of stuff too and makes me suspicious too. [/quote]

I’d say suspicion is reasonable in this case.[/quote]

Maybe. Curious how it works and if it interferes with the process or is subject to tampering. More curious how much it costs per well.

Ok, all this fucking conversation, and no one yet is saying they’re gonna watch FRACKNATION
tonight…TONIGHT!..goodness gracious man.
Ok, I’m sure it will be on YT anyway soon…whatever, I gave you guys all the info you need
in my previous posts about it…tune in.

[quote]Karado wrote:
Ok, all this fucking conversation, and no one yet is saying they’re gonna watch FRACKNATION
tonight…TONIGHT!..goodness gracious man.
Ok, I’m sure it will be on YT anyway soon…whatever, I gave you guys all the info you need
in my previous posts about it…tune in.
[/quote]

I would, but I don’t have that channel and I don’t wanna shell out $20 either.