You Do Not NEED an AI

Pharma / TRT Testosterone Replacement
1

I’m tired of all of the e-doctors on this forum telling the forum goers what medicine they should be prescribed. “You need X mg of HCG! You need y mg of AI per week or you will feel like crap!!!”

Here is my experience with TRT:

Before:
Total Test: 271
E2: 31

After 8 weeks of TRT:
Total Test: 840
E2 25

The only thing I took was 100mg weekly testosterone. I did not take any AI or HCG. My AI is dropping down naturally to its optimal range.

My testicles did not shrink, and they aren’t withering in pain either.

In conclusion, some people might need HCG/AI, some people might not, but do not let forum goers prescribe you medicine, let your qualified doctor do it…

1 Like
2

Welcome to the club.

Here’s my prescription of 8 years: 10 grams of Androgel.

No AI, no HCG, and no clomid except in two cases in which the doctor felt my LH and FSH levels were too low for his liking. Those were ONE month stints on clomid using HALF A TAB!

So in conclusion I have never used more than one drug at a time, never needed an AI, and never had any serious problems with using only 10 grams of Androgel per day for 8 years.

3

I’d like to hear some more opionions, comments on this. I’ve been reading, researching TRT on this board and some others and one of the things that concerns me is all the drugs that are needed in addition to the test.

4

Your statement: “You Do Not NEED an AI” is false because it is not universally true. Try to be constructive and qualify your statements. You are not helping anyone in that regard.

You guys are the rare exceptions. The vast majority needs to know the larger picture, mostly because their doctors are ignorant of these things. For the few like you, they will find as a matter of course that their needs for an AI are lower or nil.

You two may gave genetic variations, which makes you abnormal. Just as we have guy who are abnormal who are anastrozole over-responders. Your aromatase responses are abnormal.

As for hCG, those who do find shrinkage and/or constant aching, need to know the options. For the younger guys, they also need to consider their future fertility. If TRT shuts down LH/FSH, the testes are at risk. Your situations suggest two possible situations.

One would be that TRT does not shut down your LH/FSH. The other is that low LH/FSH does not cause your testes to shrink and scrotum to contract. If you have secondary hypogonadism, then your LH/FSH was low prior to TRT and TRT would not increase it. The alternative is that you do not observe changes with low LH/FSH.

If we assume that that is true, that does not preclude the possibility that one in this state is not going to become sterile. This can be resolved by you two having a sperm counts performed. Yes, many do not care about having more children, but that is not the point.

Can you two provide any LH/FSH data while on your protocol? You have not presented any evidence that you have any functional levels of LH/FSH while on TRT.

And the reasons for hCG are: Appearance, sexual self image, how one is regarded by one’s wife/GF, stopping the 24x7 aching [not all have this], fertility and pregnenolone support which supports all of the adrenal hormones. hCG 250iu SC EOD was determined by research to be a replacement dose for LH receptor activation. That dose recommendation is the best that there is.

Issues to manage serum E2 near 22pg/ml [somewhat applicable to most]: mental health, libido, prostate health, fat loss, energy, assertiveness [vs passivity], noise intolerance, irritability and social withdrawal.

This is all about options. Many really do suffer from high estradiol and many do have serious issues with their testes. I think that you should temper your message to wait and see first. In any case, all should be aware of these problems and the appropriate interventions. Stop acting like your message has universal significance. You do not know what you are promoting unless you can provide LH/FSH data and sperm count data.

What does this mean: “My AI is dropping down naturally to its optimal range.” You do not have AI and ‘it’ does not possess an optimal range. If all has access to qualified doctors, there would not be any need for any TRT discussions in this forum. Qualified doctors are a rare find at best. “Normal” guys for the most part really need to understand these issues to survive the current state of male hormone medical care.

5

[quote]Virgil Hilts wrote:
I’d like to hear some more opionions, comments on this. I’ve been reading, researching TRT on this board and some others and one of the things that concerns me is all the drugs that are needed in addition to the test. [/quote]

I don’t know why you should be so concerned, considering that all most people with hypogonadism need is a measly 70 mg of test per week and NOTHING ELSE in most situations.

I don’t use anything else. As I’ve said over and over, all I use 10 grams of Androgel per day.

I have no idea where all this talk of over-aromatization came from; if your T values are normal (300 to 1,200 ng/dl), there most likely will be no problems with estradiol at all.

Same goes for when I used clomid. I used NOTHING ELSE for a month. I used HALF a tab, and that brought my T levels from 240 to 790!

Go to a COMPETENT endocrinologist or an andrologist and get yourself fixed. I have no idea why this is so comlicated.

My doctor told me that Androgel works in 95 percent of men, and this guy has done WORLDS MORE work in the field of urology than any internet poster who knows how to use Pub Med and search engines considering this guy is someone actually publishing studies found in Pub Med.

I also don’t know where people came to the conclusion that gels cause more estradiol problems. Actually, Androgel provides more consistent T values, not large surges followed by abnormally low values that occur with injections. Yeah, you can get by that with smaller frequent injections. I just see no need to complicate my life and will continue to just rub in a measly 10 grams of gel per day.

On the issue of transfer. Don’t know why this is such a big concern either, considering this stuff is not some slime-like goo that flies all over the place when you rub it in. This stuff absorbs into the skin like hand sanitizer and is usually fully absorbed into the skin in about 30 seconds.

Yeah, there’s still probably an indiscernible film on the body, but who the heck is running around naked all day and vigorously rubbing their bodies against someone else? I put it on before I go to sleep. I’ve heard of people saying you can transfer it to a kid or baby. Who the fuck is going to start rubbing their bare shoulders, upper arms, and abdomen against kids and babies?!

6

[quote]Virgil Hilts wrote:
I’d like to hear some more opionions, comments on this. I’ve been reading, researching TRT on this board and some others and one of the things that concerns me is all the drugs that are needed in addition to the test. [/quote]

Most of the time, TRT causes estradiol levels to be too high an an aromatase inhibitor [AI] is needed to manage that. When serum estradiol levels are near 22pg/ml, the responses to TRT seem to be optimal. Normal men have a pattern of increased aromatase levels with age, like clock work.

A typical older man who has T levels restored to youthful levels can have very adverse estradiol levels. Compare that to a young man with the same T levels who typically has lower range estradiol levels. There are many adverse effects of estrogens in males. [Note that most older men have more estrogens than their post menopausal wives.]

Effective TRT shuts down LH/FSH. There is zero evidence to the contrary.

Low LH/FSH is known to eliminate most of the pregnenolone production in the testes, creating low levels. Read about the functions of pregnenolone. hCG maintains/restores one’s [current] baseline testicular pregnenolone production. Low pregnenolone often leads to lower DHEA and other adrenal hormones.

So you can expect that TRT will create these two hormone imbalances and may want to take measures to correct that.

The TRT is a particular application of HRT. The goal of HRT is to restore hormone levels and balance to improve health and well-being. In the case if TRT, increasing T and ignoring the loss of LH/FSH, pregnenolone and estrogen imbalances can lead to poor outcomes.

Many will do better with two drugs to go with TRT, anastrozole and hCG. Many without can suffer greatly.

7

KSman’

Would it be possible for some men to use pregnenolone instead of hCG?

8

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
Hamburger.
[/quote]

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VIRGIL and JDINATLE: Where are you two located?

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I’m a transplanted New yorker living in Florida. I didn’t want to start a war on this topic . I’m just trying to learn.
I agree aout not complicating this, but I want to make sure all my bases are covered before I get into TRT.

I’m not picking sides here, but with all due respect Bricknyce, regarding the transfer of gel,living in Fl. I DO walk around half naked all day. And I DO have A 6 month old grandaughter crawling all over me.

11

[quote]Virgil Hilts wrote:
I’d like to hear some more opionions, comments on this. I’ve been reading, researching TRT on this board and some others and one of the things that concerns me is all the drugs that are needed in addition to the test. [/quote]

started with T cyp only for 18 months. 200 mg E2W. I felt better, but after a while my testes shrank and ached 24/7. I retained 4-5 lbs of water with every T injection, swollen ankles.

Changed to 100 mg T cyp E6D, .5 mg Arimedex E3D, no more water retention, no more weight swings. Added 250 IU hcg EOD, balls don’t ache, and may be coming back to life.

I feel pretty damn good. The guys on this site helped me more than all my docs combined. Thanks KS. I’m getting blood done this week to follow up again.

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[quote]Virgil Hilts wrote:
KSman’

Would it be possible for some men to use pregnenolone instead of hCG?[/quote]

To have adequate levels of pregnenolone yes. But that still leaves the other testicular problems.

Note that some do not absorb oral DHEA or progesterone very well [me for one]. And some do not absorb steroids through their skin.

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There is always…always a few that don’t need this or that. You have to look at the majority of guys on TRT.
Hell I wish I could take Tcyp all by itself and be fine. I’m envious of those that can, makes things a hell of a lot easier.

14

Some time properly mixing the HCG will resolve your e2 issues as it did mine, plus genetic mutations which I also have indentified through testing. I never had an issue with e2 untill I started using smaller bottle of HCG which when I injected it was half the bottle due to the solution was not settles. This left me on a huge rollercoaster ride with e2. Now I mix my bottle and let it sit over night then roll it in the morning and no issues.

15

Orange - you missed his follow up post when he came back here complaining about E2 problems and issues and asking for advice.

and then more advice on arimidex…

and again…

16

If one does E2 labs and doses AI appropriately, then one always will end up in the right place, even if the AI dose approaches zero.

17

Well, well, well

[quote]PureChance wrote:
Orange - you missed his follow up post when he came back here complaining about E2 problems and issues and asking for advice.

and then more advice on arimidex…

and again…

[/quote]