Yeah, I'm Gay...and I Love a Muscle Guy!

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
21

Yea, who cares about the fabric of society, and a 5000 year old institution? And who cares how messed up the kids will be after witnessing who knows what for 18 years? And what’s the difference if we promote a lifestyle that has the single highest death, disease and suicide rate in the world?

Honestly, these are minor details. What we really need to look at is how one gay partnership could possibly effect you. Ha, it can’t. Right?

It’s all really very simple, especially when your a 20 something.

22

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Yea, who cares about the fabric of society, and a 5000 year old institution? And who cares how messed up the kids will be after witnessing who knows what for 18 years? And what’s the difference if we promote a lifestyle that has the single highest death, disease and suicide rate in the world?

Honestly, these are minor details. What we really need to look at is how one gay partnership could possibly effect you. Ha, it can’t. Right?

It’s all really very simple, especially when your a 20 something.

[/quote]

I’m not sure if you are addressing me or not, but I don’t know really much about the deaths, diseases, and suicides. So, knowing that, I definitely spoke out of ignorance. I don’t think I said it doesn’t effect people (it doesn’t effect me personally right now), if I did, I didn’t mean to. My opinion on gay marriage has nothing to do with gay people, it has to with the gov’t running marriages, which I feel is wrong. Again, I am not well versed on the problems with gay marriage aside from the mixing of church and state aspect of it.

23

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Yea, who cares about the fabric of society, and a 5000 year old institution? And who cares how messed up the kids will be after witnessing who knows what for 18 years? And what’s the difference if we promote a lifestyle that has the single highest death, disease and suicide rate in the world?

Honestly, these are minor details. What we really need to look at is how one gay partnership could possibly effect you. Ha, it can’t. Right?

It’s all really very simple, especially when your a 20 something.

[/quote]

I’m not sure if you are addressing me or not, but I don’t know really much about the deaths, diseases, and suicides. So, knowing that, I definitely spoke out of ignorance. I don’t think I said it doesn’t effect people (it doesn’t effect me personally right now), if I did, I didn’t mean to. My opinion on gay marriage has nothing to do with gay people, it has to with the gov’t running marriages, which I feel is wrong. Again, I am not well versed on the problems with gay marriage aside from the mixing of church and state aspect of it.
[/quote]

Check the CDC fact sheet on men who have sex with men. The stats are off the charts ugly (67% of all new HIV positive cases are gay males for example. Would we even have an AIDS epidemic if not for homosexual men?). In other research statistically there is almost no such thing as a monogamous gay relationship. The typical gay male has many sexual relationships outside of his main relationship study after study has shown this, don’t make me dig them out again. The statistics have been brought out right here on these threads many, many times. As far as a gay marriage effecting you personally, it does have a ripple effect in ways that you cannot imagine.

Here’s two immediate, there are more.

-Health care costs
-role model impact on your children

Even if it didn’t effect you directly (it does) what sort of society do you want to live in? Does the guy living 10 states away torturing small animals directly effect you? How about the guy molesting children in his neighborhood? Does that effect you directly? Would two consenting adults who are brother and sister getting married directly effect you? How about one woman marrying six men, does that effect you?

It’s about the societal fabric being torn to ribbons with this nonsense.

I guess it depends on what sort of society that you want to live in, and raise your family in because eventually everything pretty much effects everything else. If you think otherwise you have not lived long enough.

24

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Yea, who cares about the fabric of society, and a 5000 year old institution? And who cares how messed up the kids will be after witnessing who knows what for 18 years? And what’s the difference if we promote a lifestyle that has the single highest death, disease and suicide rate in the world?

Honestly, these are minor details. What we really need to look at is how one gay partnership could possibly effect you. Ha, it can’t. Right?

It’s all really very simple, especially when your a 20 something.

[/quote]

I’m not sure if you are addressing me or not, but I don’t know really much about the deaths, diseases, and suicides. So, knowing that, I definitely spoke out of ignorance. I don’t think I said it doesn’t effect people (it doesn’t effect me personally right now), if I did, I didn’t mean to. My opinion on gay marriage has nothing to do with gay people, it has to with the gov’t running marriages, which I feel is wrong. Again, I am not well versed on the problems with gay marriage aside from the mixing of church and state aspect of it.
[/quote]

Check the CDC fact sheet on men who have sex with men. The stats are off the charts ugly (67% of all new HIV positive cases are gay males for example. Would we even have an AIDS epidemic if not for homosexual men?). In other research statistically there is almost no such thing as a monogamous gay relationship. The typical gay male has many sexual relationships outside of his main relationship study after study has shown this, don’t make me dig them out again. The statistics have been brought out right here on these threads many, many times. As far as a gay marriage effecting you personally, it does have a ripple effect in ways that you cannot imagine.

Here’s two immediate, there are more.

-Health care costs
-role model impact on your children

Even if it didn’t effect you directly (it does) what sort of society do you want to live in? Does the guy living 10 states away torturing small animals directly effect you? How about the guy molesting children in his neighborhood? Does that effect you directly? Would two consenting adults who are brother and sister getting married directly effect you? How about one woman marrying six men, does that effect you?

It’s about the societal fabric being torn to ribbons with this nonsense.

I guess it depends on what sort of society that you want to live in, and raise your family in because eventually everything pretty much effects everything else. If you think otherwise you have not lived long enough.
[/quote]

I checked out the studies about monogamy among gay men. Wow. These are pretty tough to deny, coupled with the AIDs stats. Many good points, never thought about the ripples effect. I hadnt even considered about raising a family coupled with a different society. Excellent post, I feel like I learned from that. Thank you.

25

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Yea, who cares about the fabric of society, and a 5000 year old institution? And who cares how messed up the kids will be after witnessing who knows what for 18 years? And what’s the difference if we promote a lifestyle that has the single highest death, disease and suicide rate in the world?

Honestly, these are minor details. What we really need to look at is how one gay partnership could possibly effect you. Ha, it can’t. Right?

It’s all really very simple, especially when your a 20 something.

[/quote]

I’m not sure if you are addressing me or not, but I don’t know really much about the deaths, diseases, and suicides. So, knowing that, I definitely spoke out of ignorance. I don’t think I said it doesn’t effect people (it doesn’t effect me personally right now), if I did, I didn’t mean to. My opinion on gay marriage has nothing to do with gay people, it has to with the gov’t running marriages, which I feel is wrong. Again, I am not well versed on the problems with gay marriage aside from the mixing of church and state aspect of it.
[/quote]

Check the CDC fact sheet on men who have sex with men. The stats are off the charts ugly (67% of all new HIV positive cases are gay males for example. Would we even have an AIDS epidemic if not for homosexual men?). In other research statistically there is almost no such thing as a monogamous gay relationship. The typical gay male has many sexual relationships outside of his main relationship study after study has shown this, don’t make me dig them out again. The statistics have been brought out right here on these threads many, many times. As far as a gay marriage effecting you personally, it does have a ripple effect in ways that you cannot imagine.

Here’s two immediate, there are more.

-Health care costs
-role model impact on your children

Even if it didn’t effect you directly (it does) what sort of society do you want to live in? Does the guy living 10 states away torturing small animals directly effect you? How about the guy molesting children in his neighborhood? Does that effect you directly? Would two consenting adults who are brother and sister getting married directly effect you? How about one woman marrying six men, does that effect you?

It’s about the societal fabric being torn to ribbons with this nonsense.

I guess it depends on what sort of society that you want to live in, and raise your family in because eventually everything pretty much effects everything else. If you think otherwise you have not lived long enough.
[/quote]

I checked out the studies about monogamy among gay men. Wow. These are pretty tough to deny, coupled with the AIDs stats. Many good points, never thought about the ripples effect. I hadnt even considered about raising a family coupled with a different society. Excellent post, I feel like I learned from that. Thank you.
[/quote]

Just as a warning, young man, Zeb’s ideas, thoughts, and “statistics” about gay marriage are suspect to say the least. The first (and only) time I spoke with him about gay marriage he literally quoted a website that believes the Illuminati(/overlords/etc) are using gay marriage to destroy the fabric of our society for some conspiratorial reason or another.

Those sorts of tin-foil “theories” you can probably do without…I know I can.

26

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Yea, who cares about the fabric of society, and a 5000 year old institution? And who cares how messed up the kids will be after witnessing who knows what for 18 years? And what’s the difference if we promote a lifestyle that has the single highest death, disease and suicide rate in the world?

Honestly, these are minor details. What we really need to look at is how one gay partnership could possibly effect you. Ha, it can’t. Right?

It’s all really very simple, especially when your a 20 something.

[/quote]

I’m not sure if you are addressing me or not, but I don’t know really much about the deaths, diseases, and suicides. So, knowing that, I definitely spoke out of ignorance. I don’t think I said it doesn’t effect people (it doesn’t effect me personally right now), if I did, I didn’t mean to. My opinion on gay marriage has nothing to do with gay people, it has to with the gov’t running marriages, which I feel is wrong. Again, I am not well versed on the problems with gay marriage aside from the mixing of church and state aspect of it.
[/quote]

Check the CDC fact sheet on men who have sex with men. The stats are off the charts ugly (67% of all new HIV positive cases are gay males for example. Would we even have an AIDS epidemic if not for homosexual men?). In other research statistically there is almost no such thing as a monogamous gay relationship. The typical gay male has many sexual relationships outside of his main relationship study after study has shown this, don’t make me dig them out again. The statistics have been brought out right here on these threads many, many times. As far as a gay marriage effecting you personally, it does have a ripple effect in ways that you cannot imagine.

Here’s two immediate, there are more.

-Health care costs
-role model impact on your children

Even if it didn’t effect you directly (it does) what sort of society do you want to live in? Does the guy living 10 states away torturing small animals directly effect you? How about the guy molesting children in his neighborhood? Does that effect you directly? Would two consenting adults who are brother and sister getting married directly effect you? How about one woman marrying six men, does that effect you?

It’s about the societal fabric being torn to ribbons with this nonsense.

I guess it depends on what sort of society that you want to live in, and raise your family in because eventually everything pretty much effects everything else. If you think otherwise you have not lived long enough.
[/quote]

I checked out the studies about monogamy among gay men. Wow. These are pretty tough to deny, coupled with the AIDs stats. Many good points, never thought about the ripples effect. I hadnt even considered about raising a family coupled with a different society. Excellent post, I feel like I learned from that. Thank you.
[/quote]

whoa…

AIDS is growing fastest in heterosexual women.

So what does that mean?

Only lesbians are safe?

27

I think I’m pretty uninformed, I’m going to do some research before I post in here again.

28

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:
I think I’m pretty uninformed, I’m going to do some research before I post in here again.[/quote]

That’s a good attitude to have. Just be sure to what WHERE you’re getting information from. There’s a lot of junk out there.

29

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Yea, who cares about the fabric of society, and a 5000 year old institution? And who cares how messed up the kids will be after witnessing who knows what for 18 years? And what’s the difference if we promote a lifestyle that has the single highest death, disease and suicide rate in the world?

Honestly, these are minor details. What we really need to look at is how one gay partnership could possibly effect you. Ha, it can’t. Right?

It’s all really very simple, especially when your a 20 something.

[/quote]

I’m not sure if you are addressing me or not, but I don’t know really much about the deaths, diseases, and suicides. So, knowing that, I definitely spoke out of ignorance. I don’t think I said it doesn’t effect people (it doesn’t effect me personally right now), if I did, I didn’t mean to. My opinion on gay marriage has nothing to do with gay people, it has to with the gov’t running marriages, which I feel is wrong. Again, I am not well versed on the problems with gay marriage aside from the mixing of church and state aspect of it.
[/quote]

Check the CDC fact sheet on men who have sex with men. The stats are off the charts ugly (67% of all new HIV positive cases are gay males for example. Would we even have an AIDS epidemic if not for homosexual men?). In other research statistically there is almost no such thing as a monogamous gay relationship. The typical gay male has many sexual relationships outside of his main relationship study after study has shown this, don’t make me dig them out again. The statistics have been brought out right here on these threads many, many times. As far as a gay marriage effecting you personally, it does have a ripple effect in ways that you cannot imagine.

Here’s two immediate, there are more.

-Health care costs
-role model impact on your children

Even if it didn’t effect you directly (it does) what sort of society do you want to live in? Does the guy living 10 states away torturing small animals directly effect you? How about the guy molesting children in his neighborhood? Does that effect you directly? Would two consenting adults who are brother and sister getting married directly effect you? How about one woman marrying six men, does that effect you?

It’s about the societal fabric being torn to ribbons with this nonsense.

I guess it depends on what sort of society that you want to live in, and raise your family in because eventually everything pretty much effects everything else. If you think otherwise you have not lived long enough.
[/quote]

I checked out the studies about monogamy among gay men. Wow. These are pretty tough to deny, coupled with the AIDs stats. Many good points, never thought about the ripples effect. I hadnt even considered about raising a family coupled with a different society. Excellent post, I feel like I learned from that. Thank you.
[/quote]

Just as a warning, young man, Zeb’s ideas, thoughts, and “statistics” about gay marriage are suspect to say the least. The first (and only) time I spoke with him about gay marriage he literally quoted a website that believes the Illuminati(/overlords/etc) are using gay marriage to destroy the fabric of our society for some conspiratorial reason or another.

Those sorts of tin-foil “theories” you can probably do without…I know I can. [/quote]

USMCpoolee,

I’ve been trying to resist, but yeah, before ZEB ‘educates’ someone again: his reading of the CDC pages unfortunately tends to be quite selective. Just one central point: Nowhere does the CDC claim causality of homosexual behaviour for the health statistics on men having sex with men (MSM). They do explain a lot of it though with the social factors (for clarity, and used in their materials: homophobia) which MSM face in a variety of social, religios and economic groups. It also actually recommends and provides support initiatives for building stable homosexual communities, which have been proven to increase (sexual) health of MSM.

I have to declare my own position in this and have to point out that I have over years now (hi ZEB, how are you? Hope you’re doing well.) questioned and posted critiques of the sources posted by ZEB. As internet debates go, obviously, no one has changed their views - but feel free to go through my posting history for detailed accounts and an alternative interpretation of (often the same) sources. I’m personally always amazed though how consistenly (and conveniently) victims are turned into perpetrators - thus perpetuating the patterns which makes things worse, not better. This is where I see the real moral conflict - but that’s of course just me.

Makkun

30

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
Only lesbians are safe?
[/quote]

You should look into this. And post pics.

31

[quote]carbiduis wrote:
Im a conservative, also and athiest. I dont understand why repubs/conservatives are against it, i mean, its a FREEDOM to bea ble to marry right? so DO IT!

My mom tells me “its a special thing between a man and a woman, it needs to be protected” (shes agnostic, not religous)…yeah well guess what, divorce rate is through the roof, IT AINT SO SPECIAL NO MORE, so let the gays marry.

Im for gay marriage…but to tell you the truth, Im anti-gay-parade (silly waste of time, i say this cause my friends invited me to be there…im a college student with hippy friends).

Marriage is about love right? Well if two people love each other, then let them get married.

OP are you diggin Obama? JW, i dont hate the man, but i DO hate a lot of the things hes done.[/quote]

The reason for the rise in divorce rate is the same for it suddenly being a pop culture thing to be gay. The deterioration of values and morals. The lack of accountability and responsibility propogated in our sosciety and the subtle destruction of our family units by group of people who believe the collective is the answer. It isn’t so subtle anymore, they are aoutright attacking the family institute.

A child needs and nuturing loving mother and a strong male role model in their life, but with the need for many families to have both parents work they don’t get that, instead they get arguing and fighting, and then at school brainwashed to think nothing in the world is wrong or has consequences unless it is questioning the progressive movement.

32

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Yea, who cares about the fabric of society, and a 5000 year old institution? And who cares how messed up the kids will be after witnessing who knows what for 18 years? And what’s the difference if we promote a lifestyle that has the single highest death, disease and suicide rate in the world?

Honestly, these are minor details. What we really need to look at is how one gay partnership could possibly effect you. Ha, it can’t. Right?

It’s all really very simple, especially when your a 20 something.

[/quote]

I’m not sure if you are addressing me or not, but I don’t know really much about the deaths, diseases, and suicides. So, knowing that, I definitely spoke out of ignorance. I don’t think I said it doesn’t effect people (it doesn’t effect me personally right now), if I did, I didn’t mean to. My opinion on gay marriage has nothing to do with gay people, it has to with the gov’t running marriages, which I feel is wrong. Again, I am not well versed on the problems with gay marriage aside from the mixing of church and state aspect of it.
[/quote]

Check the CDC fact sheet on men who have sex with men. The stats are off the charts ugly (67% of all new HIV positive cases are gay males for example. Would we even have an AIDS epidemic if not for homosexual men?). In other research statistically there is almost no such thing as a monogamous gay relationship. The typical gay male has many sexual relationships outside of his main relationship study after study has shown this, don’t make me dig them out again. The statistics have been brought out right here on these threads many, many times. As far as a gay marriage effecting you personally, it does have a ripple effect in ways that you cannot imagine.

Here’s two immediate, there are more.

-Health care costs
-role model impact on your children

Even if it didn’t effect you directly (it does) what sort of society do you want to live in? Does the guy living 10 states away torturing small animals directly effect you? How about the guy molesting children in his neighborhood? Does that effect you directly? Would two consenting adults who are brother and sister getting married directly effect you? How about one woman marrying six men, does that effect you?

It’s about the societal fabric being torn to ribbons with this nonsense.

I guess it depends on what sort of society that you want to live in, and raise your family in because eventually everything pretty much effects everything else. If you think otherwise you have not lived long enough.
[/quote]

I checked out the studies about monogamy among gay men. Wow. These are pretty tough to deny, coupled with the AIDs stats. Many good points, never thought about the ripples effect. I hadnt even considered about raising a family coupled with a different society. Excellent post, I feel like I learned from that. Thank you.
[/quote]

Just as a warning, young man, Zeb’s ideas, thoughts, and “statistics” about gay marriage are suspect to say the least. The first (and only) time I spoke with him about gay marriage he literally quoted a website that believes the Illuminati(/overlords/etc) are using gay marriage to destroy the fabric of our society for some conspiratorial reason or another.

Those sorts of tin-foil “theories” you can probably do without…I know I can. [/quote]

yeah this coming from someone who denied Obama and his administration were socialist in disguise.

Funny thing about alot of the left leaing people, they don’t like statistics or science of behavior or people. They call it tin foil hat theories and such. But then they like to use studies if it seems to support their ideas or goals, when in reality, the majority of statistical analysis and comprehensive retrospective studies do not.

33

[quote]makkun wrote:

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Yea, who cares about the fabric of society, and a 5000 year old institution? And who cares how messed up the kids will be after witnessing who knows what for 18 years? And what’s the difference if we promote a lifestyle that has the single highest death, disease and suicide rate in the world?

Honestly, these are minor details. What we really need to look at is how one gay partnership could possibly effect you. Ha, it can’t. Right?

It’s all really very simple, especially when your a 20 something.

[/quote]

I’m not sure if you are addressing me or not, but I don’t know really much about the deaths, diseases, and suicides. So, knowing that, I definitely spoke out of ignorance. I don’t think I said it doesn’t effect people (it doesn’t effect me personally right now), if I did, I didn’t mean to. My opinion on gay marriage has nothing to do with gay people, it has to with the gov’t running marriages, which I feel is wrong. Again, I am not well versed on the problems with gay marriage aside from the mixing of church and state aspect of it.
[/quote]

Check the CDC fact sheet on men who have sex with men. The stats are off the charts ugly (67% of all new HIV positive cases are gay males for example. Would we even have an AIDS epidemic if not for homosexual men?). In other research statistically there is almost no such thing as a monogamous gay relationship. The typical gay male has many sexual relationships outside of his main relationship study after study has shown this, don’t make me dig them out again. The statistics have been brought out right here on these threads many, many times. As far as a gay marriage effecting you personally, it does have a ripple effect in ways that you cannot imagine.

Here’s two immediate, there are more.

-Health care costs
-role model impact on your children

Even if it didn’t effect you directly (it does) what sort of society do you want to live in? Does the guy living 10 states away torturing small animals directly effect you? How about the guy molesting children in his neighborhood? Does that effect you directly? Would two consenting adults who are brother and sister getting married directly effect you? How about one woman marrying six men, does that effect you?

It’s about the societal fabric being torn to ribbons with this nonsense.

I guess it depends on what sort of society that you want to live in, and raise your family in because eventually everything pretty much effects everything else. If you think otherwise you have not lived long enough.
[/quote]

I checked out the studies about monogamy among gay men. Wow. These are pretty tough to deny, coupled with the AIDs stats. Many good points, never thought about the ripples effect. I hadnt even considered about raising a family coupled with a different society. Excellent post, I feel like I learned from that. Thank you.
[/quote]

Just as a warning, young man, Zeb’s ideas, thoughts, and “statistics” about gay marriage are suspect to say the least. The first (and only) time I spoke with him about gay marriage he literally quoted a website that believes the Illuminati(/overlords/etc) are using gay marriage to destroy the fabric of our society for some conspiratorial reason or another.

Those sorts of tin-foil “theories” you can probably do without…I know I can. [/quote]

USMCpoolee,

I’ve been trying to resist, but yeah, before ZEB ‘educates’ someone again: his reading of the CDC pages unfortunately tends to be quite selective. Just one central point: Nowhere does the CDC claim causality of homosexual behaviour for the health statistics on men having sex with men (MSM). They do explain a lot of it though with the social factors (for clarity, and used in their materials: homophobia) which MSM face in a variety of social, religios and economic groups. It also actually recommends and provides support initiatives for building stable homosexual communities, which have been proven to increase (sexual) health of MSM.

I have to declare my own position in this and have to point out that I have over years now (hi ZEB, how are you? Hope you’re doing well.) questioned and posted critiques of the sources posted by ZEB. As internet debates go, obviously, no one has changed their views - but feel free to go through my posting history for detailed accounts and an alternative interpretation of (often the same) sources. I’m personally always amazed though how consistenly (and conveniently) victims are turned into perpetrators - thus perpetuating the patterns which makes things worse, not better. This is where I see the real moral conflict - but that’s of course just me.

Makkun[/quote]

because they would be chastized and not published if they did. of course they cannot prove causation, duh, theroy of null hypothesis testing you can only support to reject the null.

Ever since the bull ruling that being homosexual is not a sexual deviancy any scientist that tries to publish real stats gets berated for it and has to soften the wording. That is not science. People don’t like real science about people, it shows just how pathetic we really are.

34

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Yea, who cares about the fabric of society, and a 5000 year old institution? And who cares how messed up the kids will be after witnessing who knows what for 18 years? And what’s the difference if we promote a lifestyle that has the single highest death, disease and suicide rate in the world?

Honestly, these are minor details. What we really need to look at is how one gay partnership could possibly effect you. Ha, it can’t. Right?

It’s all really very simple, especially when your a 20 something.

[/quote]

I’m not sure if you are addressing me or not, but I don’t know really much about the deaths, diseases, and suicides. So, knowing that, I definitely spoke out of ignorance. I don’t think I said it doesn’t effect people (it doesn’t effect me personally right now), if I did, I didn’t mean to. My opinion on gay marriage has nothing to do with gay people, it has to with the gov’t running marriages, which I feel is wrong. Again, I am not well versed on the problems with gay marriage aside from the mixing of church and state aspect of it.
[/quote]

Check the CDC fact sheet on men who have sex with men. The stats are off the charts ugly (67% of all new HIV positive cases are gay males for example. Would we even have an AIDS epidemic if not for homosexual men?). In other research statistically there is almost no such thing as a monogamous gay relationship. The typical gay male has many sexual relationships outside of his main relationship study after study has shown this, don’t make me dig them out again. The statistics have been brought out right here on these threads many, many times. As far as a gay marriage effecting you personally, it does have a ripple effect in ways that you cannot imagine.

Here’s two immediate, there are more.

-Health care costs
-role model impact on your children

Even if it didn’t effect you directly (it does) what sort of society do you want to live in? Does the guy living 10 states away torturing small animals directly effect you? How about the guy molesting children in his neighborhood? Does that effect you directly? Would two consenting adults who are brother and sister getting married directly effect you? How about one woman marrying six men, does that effect you?

It’s about the societal fabric being torn to ribbons with this nonsense.

I guess it depends on what sort of society that you want to live in, and raise your family in because eventually everything pretty much effects everything else. If you think otherwise you have not lived long enough.
[/quote]

I checked out the studies about monogamy among gay men. Wow. These are pretty tough to deny, coupled with the AIDs stats. Many good points, never thought about the ripples effect. I hadnt even considered about raising a family coupled with a different society. Excellent post, I feel like I learned from that. Thank you.
[/quote]

Just as a warning, young man, Zeb’s ideas, thoughts, and “statistics” about gay marriage are suspect to say the least. The first (and only) time I spoke with him about gay marriage he literally quoted a website that believes the Illuminati(/overlords/etc) are using gay marriage to destroy the fabric of our society for some conspiratorial reason or another.

Those sorts of tin-foil “theories” you can probably do without…I know I can. [/quote]

That is absolute nonsense. But, I’ve seen your posts before and am not surprised by the garbage that you’ve posted here. I have quoted the (CDC) Center for Disease Control web site many times as it is the single best, and most credible indicator of the horrible ramifications of the homosexual lifestyle.

I know how difficult it can be for you to look things up, all those confusing numbers on your key board, so I helped you out.

Here you go:
http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/docs/FastFacts-MSM-FINAL508COMP.pdf

This is the evidence that you need to refute. Try to stay focused and get busy. If you respond with anything other than a complete refutation of these facts, you’re nothing more than a troll for your previous comments. If we never hear back from you again, T Nation if far better off.

35

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:
I think I’m pretty uninformed, I’m going to do some research before I post in here again.[/quote]

That’s a good attitude to have. Just be sure to what WHERE you’re getting information from. There’s a lot of junk out there. [/quote]

But unfortunately for you the CDC is not a junk site and has very good facts relative to the homosexual population. Now get busy and try to refute those facts.

36

[quote]ZEB wrote:

That is absolute nonsense. But, I’ve seen your posts before and am not surprised by the garbage that you’ve posted here. I have quoted the (CDC) Center for Disease Control web site many times as it is the single best, and most credible indicator of the horrible ramifications of the homosexual lifestyle.

I know how difficult it can be for you to look things up, all those confusing numbers on your key board, so I helped you out.

Here you go:
http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/docs/FastFacts-MSM-FINAL508COMP.pdf

This is the evidence that you need to refute. Try to stay focused and get busy. If you respond with anything other than a complete refutation of these facts, you’re nothing more than a troll for your previous comments. If we never hear back from you again, T Nation if far better off.[/quote]

It is just people don’t like evidence that contradicts what they want.

Using the arguments they present we could not say that eating diet high in saturated fat, cholesterol, smoking and not exercising does not increase your risk of heart disease.

Or that being overweight, eating a ton of sugar and not exercising increases your risk of developing type 2 diabetes.

They also keep arguing that it is a tin foil hat theory that they need to do things like support the homosexual movement to breakdown the family unit. When in fact in most books about progressive or socialist movements they write this exact plan in black and white. But no it is some tin foil theory,

37

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Yea, who cares about the fabric of society, and a 5000 year old institution? And who cares how messed up the kids will be after witnessing who knows what for 18 years? And what’s the difference if we promote a lifestyle that has the single highest death, disease and suicide rate in the world?

[/quote]

Yes, allowing a minority segment of the population to marry is going to destroy the fabric of society…and cause a disturbance in the force, space time continuum, or something even comparatively less important, my marriage. Yes, this is true Zeb, your marriage (the sanctity of it) is now tarnished.

I’m here for you if you need someone to talk to.

Just as a side note, I love seeing the “limited government” conservatives lose their mind when the topic of gay marriage pops up.

38

[quote]makkun wrote:

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]USMCpoolee wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Yea, who cares about the fabric of society, and a 5000 year old institution? And who cares how messed up the kids will be after witnessing who knows what for 18 years? And what’s the difference if we promote a lifestyle that has the single highest death, disease and suicide rate in the world?

Honestly, these are minor details. What we really need to look at is how one gay partnership could possibly effect you. Ha, it can’t. Right?

It’s all really very simple, especially when your a 20 something.

[/quote]

I’m not sure if you are addressing me or not, but I don’t know really much about the deaths, diseases, and suicides. So, knowing that, I definitely spoke out of ignorance. I don’t think I said it doesn’t effect people (it doesn’t effect me personally right now), if I did, I didn’t mean to. My opinion on gay marriage has nothing to do with gay people, it has to with the gov’t running marriages, which I feel is wrong. Again, I am not well versed on the problems with gay marriage aside from the mixing of church and state aspect of it.
[/quote]

Check the CDC fact sheet on men who have sex with men. The stats are off the charts ugly (67% of all new HIV positive cases are gay males for example. Would we even have an AIDS epidemic if not for homosexual men?). In other research statistically there is almost no such thing as a monogamous gay relationship. The typical gay male has many sexual relationships outside of his main relationship study after study has shown this, don’t make me dig them out again. The statistics have been brought out right here on these threads many, many times. As far as a gay marriage effecting you personally, it does have a ripple effect in ways that you cannot imagine.

Here’s two immediate, there are more.

-Health care costs
-role model impact on your children

Even if it didn’t effect you directly (it does) what sort of society do you want to live in? Does the guy living 10 states away torturing small animals directly effect you? How about the guy molesting children in his neighborhood? Does that effect you directly? Would two consenting adults who are brother and sister getting married directly effect you? How about one woman marrying six men, does that effect you?

It’s about the societal fabric being torn to ribbons with this nonsense.

I guess it depends on what sort of society that you want to live in, and raise your family in because eventually everything pretty much effects everything else. If you think otherwise you have not lived long enough.
[/quote]

I checked out the studies about monogamy among gay men. Wow. These are pretty tough to deny, coupled with the AIDs stats. Many good points, never thought about the ripples effect. I hadnt even considered about raising a family coupled with a different society. Excellent post, I feel like I learned from that. Thank you.
[/quote]

Just as a warning, young man, Zeb’s ideas, thoughts, and “statistics” about gay marriage are suspect to say the least. The first (and only) time I spoke with him about gay marriage he literally quoted a website that believes the Illuminati(/overlords/etc) are using gay marriage to destroy the fabric of our society for some conspiratorial reason or another.

Those sorts of tin-foil “theories” you can probably do without…I know I can. [/quote]

USMCpoolee,

I’ve been trying to resist, but yeah, before ZEB ‘educates’ someone again: his reading of the CDC pages unfortunately tends to be quite selective. Just one central point: Nowhere does the CDC claim causality of homosexual behaviour for the health statistics on men having sex with men (MSM). They do explain a lot of it though with the social factors (for clarity, and used in their materials: homophobia) which MSM face in a variety of social, religios and economic groups. It also actually recommends and provides support initiatives for building stable homosexual communities, which have been proven to increase (sexual) health of MSM.

I have to declare my own position in this and have to point out that I have over years now (hi ZEB, how are you? Hope you’re doing well.) questioned and posted critiques of the sources posted by ZEB. As internet debates go, obviously, no one has changed their views - but feel free to go through my posting history for detailed accounts and an alternative interpretation of (often the same) sources. I’m personally always amazed though how consistenly (and conveniently) victims are turned into perpetrators - thus perpetuating the patterns which makes things worse, not better. This is where I see the real moral conflict - but that’s of course just me.

Makkun[/quote]

There’s nothing better than when the politically correct left sees facts that do not align with their core, politically correct, beliefs.

These facts are fresh from the CDC web site:

“SM (men who have sex with men) account for nearly half of the more than one million people living with HIV in the U.S. (48%, or an estimated 532,000 total persons).”

Gee I wonder how that happened? It couldn’t be from having anal intercourse. Must be that they also belong to an every other wednesday night basketball league and the floors are filled with HIV, yea that’s it.

More politically incorrect, but factually accurate information from the CDC:

“MSM (men who have sex with men) account for more than half of all new HIV infections in the U.S. each year (53%, or an estimated 28,700 infections).”

“While CDC estimates that MSM (men who have sex with men) account for just 4 percent of the U.S. male population aged 13 and older, the rate of new HIV diagnoses among MSM in the U.S. is more than 44 times that of other men (range: 522â??989 per 100,000 MSM vs. 12 per 100,000 other men).”

“MSM (men who have sex with men) is the only risk group in the U.S. in which new HIV infections are increasing. While new infections have declined among both heterosexuals and injection drug users, the annual number of new HIV infections among MSM has been steadily increasing since the early 1990s.”

http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/docs/FastFacts-MSM-FINAL508COMP.pdf

I know the above is not something you’ll find out watching “Will & Grace” or anywhere out of the mainstream liberal media. They want you to think that there is no danger at all from homosexual behavior. But darn those pesky facts, they just keep getting in the way of their dream world.

(Oh and I’m fine, working tons of hours- Thanks for asking Makkun, hope you are doing well.)

39

[quote]apbt55 wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

That is absolute nonsense. But, I’ve seen your posts before and am not surprised by the garbage that you’ve posted here. I have quoted the (CDC) Center for Disease Control web site many times as it is the single best, and most credible indicator of the horrible ramifications of the homosexual lifestyle.

I know how difficult it can be for you to look things up, all those confusing numbers on your key board, so I helped you out.

Here you go:
http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/docs/FastFacts-MSM-FINAL508COMP.pdf

This is the evidence that you need to refute. Try to stay focused and get busy. If you respond with anything other than a complete refutation of these facts, you’re nothing more than a troll for your previous comments. If we never hear back from you again, T Nation if far better off.[/quote]

It is just people don’t like evidence that contradicts what they want.

Using the arguments they present we could not say that eating diet high in saturated fat, cholesterol, smoking and not exercising does not increase your risk of heart disease.

Or that being overweight, eating a ton of sugar and not exercising increases your risk of developing type 2 diabetes.

They also keep arguing that it is a tin foil hat theory that they need to do things like support the homosexual movement to breakdown the family unit. When in fact in most books about progressive or socialist movements they write this exact plan in black and white. But no it is some tin foil [/quote]

Excellent post.

40

[quote]ZEB wrote:

http://www.cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/docs/FastFacts-MSM-FINAL508COMP.pdf

I know the above is not something you’ll find out watching “Will & Grace” or anywhere out of the mainstream liberal media. They want you to think that there is no danger at all from homosexual behavior. But darn those pesky facts, they just keep getting in the way of their dream world.
[/quote]

I read the quote and it is a terrible thing. However, I don’t understand why it’s in a government’s best interest to deny a right to a group of individuals when some members of said group may engage in reckless behavior unrelated to the right being disputed. It’s akin to denying the right of goverment-recognized marriage to a hetero couple because straight people die in skydiving accidents in a greater proportion than their share of the overall population would suggest.

What I take from the CDC site is that gay and bisexual men need to either practice safer sex or abstain lest they infect themselves.

In neither case does the government have a compelling case to withold recognition of a civil union.