Ok so for the record, If a guy lifted in a raw meet and put up something like 500/350/550 he’d be GTG but If this same guy competed later, with gear, and put up 650/450/600 that would suck?
I think we are all just full of shit and like to bitch about other peoples business. SMH.
[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
Ok so for the record, If a guy lifted in a raw meet and put up something like 500/350/550 he’d be GTG but If this same guy competed later, with gear, and put up 650/450/600 that would suck?
I think we are all just full of shit and like to bitch about other peoples business. SMH. [/quote]
those numbers raw are better than those numbers geared.
[quote]grettiron wrote:
[quote]Paul33 wrote:
[quote]grettiron wrote:
The competition is to see who can put up the biggest total using specific equipment. It has nothing to do with strength. This point is lost on pretty much every raw zealot out there. [/quote]
lifting weights isnt about strength? fucking hell thats a new one! i think alot of basic logic is lost on most geared zealots.it misleads people, and yes,everyone falls for this when you start out. the only person ive heard qualify their lifts as multiply is mark bell. everyone else says " i bench 900 pounds" no you fucking dont. lifitng weights should be about strength. that is the exact same mindset that could be applied to squatting high as fuck. NAH MAN ITS ABOUT MOVING THE MOST WEIGHT.[/quote]
Powerlifting competition isn’t about strength. Nice try.[/quote]
then why is it called a strength sport. technique only gets you so far when you have minimal equipment
[quote]Paul33 wrote:
[quote]grettiron wrote:
[quote]Paul33 wrote:
[quote]grettiron wrote:
The competition is to see who can put up the biggest total using specific equipment. It has nothing to do with strength. This point is lost on pretty much every raw zealot out there. [/quote]
lifting weights isnt about strength? fucking hell thats a new one! i think alot of basic logic is lost on most geared zealots.it misleads people, and yes,everyone falls for this when you start out. the only person ive heard qualify their lifts as multiply is mark bell. everyone else says " i bench 900 pounds" no you fucking dont. lifitng weights should be about strength. that is the exact same mindset that could be applied to squatting high as fuck. NAH MAN ITS ABOUT MOVING THE MOST WEIGHT.[/quote]
Powerlifting competition isn’t about strength. Nice try.[/quote]
then why is it called a strength sport. technique only gets you so far when you have minimal equipment
[/quote]
Powerlifting competition is about putting up the biggest total in a meet. It’s not about strength. If your division calls for multiply, then you lift in multiply and try to put up the biggest total.
Do you know what necessary but not sufficient means? Because there is your answer.
[quote]Paul33 wrote:
[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
Ok so for the record, If a guy lifted in a raw meet and put up something like 500/350/550 he’d be GTG but If this same guy competed later, with gear, and put up 650/450/600 that would suck?
I think we are all just full of shit and like to bitch about other peoples business. SMH. [/quote]
those numbers raw are better than those numbers geared.[/quote]
I understand your opinion is from your perspective, But it’s the same guy… only lifting in a different way so I don’t necessarily see how one set of numbers is better.
Kind of like when I used to swim with my SEAL buddy back in the day. We’d run a mile down the beach and swim back. Some days we would run two miles down the beach and then swim back the 2 miles only we would have flippers. I guess by your logic the 1 mile would be better.
I’m not trying to change your mind. I AM trying to get everyone to quit bashing each other and to give each other a bit of credit for their chosen sport and the way each person decides to train. If one has lifted equipped then they can give an opinion on the matter but if one has never been in a suit / shirt they should keep quiet about the matter because they have NO STANDING. It’s cool to not desire to spend $300 on a squat suit and learn to use it. Just like I have ZERO desire to go buy a $400 softball bat and then go shit talk church leagues who don’t use such equipment.
[quote]grettiron wrote:
[quote]Paul33 wrote:
[quote]grettiron wrote:
The competition is to see who can put up the biggest total using specific equipment. It has nothing to do with strength. This point is lost on pretty much every raw zealot out there. [/quote]
lifting weights isnt about strength? fucking hell thats a new one! i think alot of basic logic is lost on most geared zealots.it misleads people, and yes,everyone falls for this when you start out. the only person ive heard qualify their lifts as multiply is mark bell. everyone else says " i bench 900 pounds" no you fucking dont. lifitng weights should be about strength. that is the exact same mindset that could be applied to squatting high as fuck. NAH MAN ITS ABOUT MOVING THE MOST WEIGHT.[/quote]
Powerlifting competition isn’t about strength. Nice try.[/quote]
It’s not, never has been, and never will be. It is about moving the most weight. That’s why you see lifters take advantage of their leverages by altering stance, grip width, etc in order to reduce ROM, make use of better leverages for their build, bring more muscles into play, etc. Of course you have to be strong to succeed at the sport and strength is more important in powerlifting than probably any other sporting event except strongman, but it is still secondary to technique.
And that’s without even considering the variation in leverages between lifters. Malanichev will never deadlift as much as KK, but does that mean he has a weaker posterior chain? No. His leverages are poor for the deadlift and KK has good leverages for the deadlift. Deadlifts and squats are typically the highest poundage lift for nearly all lifters, so where does that leave those with poor builds for both lifts? A lifter with long femurs and short arms can excel at the bench, but his (or her) excellence there won’t make up for the hundred+ pounds s/he can’t move on the other two lifts because of build.
I’m not knocking any strength sports at all. I think serious lifters are tired of new comers making excuses for being weak and blaming it on their levers and of course we’re all tired of nonlifters calling powerlifting style bench press and sumo deadlifts cheating. To get better at powerlifting you have to get stronger and improve technique. It’s not just one or the other.
Ultimately if you are lifter, don’t make excuses about body composition. I’ll never be a great squatter, but that’s not going to stop me from squatting and trying to constantly improve it. It’s just a fact and I recognize it as that. You should be concerned with bettering and strengthening yourself.
[quote]amayakyrol wrote:
And that’s without even considering the variation in leverages between lifters. Malanichev will never deadlift as much as KK, but does that mean he has a weaker posterior chain? No. His leverages are poor for the deadlift and KK has good leverages for the deadlift. Deadlifts and squats are typically the highest poundage lift for nearly all lifters, so where does that leave those with poor builds for both lifts? A lifter with long femurs and short arms can excel at the bench, but his (or her) excellence there won’t make up for the hundred+ pounds s/he can’t move on the other two lifts because of build.
[/quote]
The guy w/ a great bench and avg squat/pull will never beat the guy w/ great squat/pull and avg bench. I’ve often thought powerlifting competitions were unfair w/ two “leg” lifts and only 1 upper body lift.
Seems to me the squat gains the most negative attention concerning depth and lifters argue more over that than the other two lifts.
Like the Olympics - maybe powerlifting needs to just do the bench and deadlift and do away w/ the squat in competition. Might appeal a little more to the Olympic committee using that format.
Now, I’m not against squatting at all. I like to squat. Yea, it’s the cornerstone lift and blah blah blah, but the advantage is certainly to those who are built to squat and pull.
It is what it is and that’s cool, but to judge strength on a lifter’s ability to do a certain lift is certainly subjective even if the lift is objective. Leverages and genetics play a more important role in powerlifting than anyone is willing to admit. The Russian willingly admit genetics are #1 and everything else just follows suit. Genetics aren’t an excuse; they are a reality and an advantage.
I’m a raw guy who really doesn’t have any interest in trying gear at the present moment. But if you like gear, that’s cool. Have fun competing in gear.
What I don’t like or understand is why we have to constantly reopen this tired old argument.
[quote]Apoklyps wrote:
What I don’t like or understand is why we have to constantly reopen this tired old argument.[/quote]
I agree, but you know what they say…classics never die.
[quote]osu122975 wrote:
Like the Olympics - maybe powerlifting needs to just do the bench and deadlift and do away w/ the squat in competition. Might appeal a little more to the Olympic committee using that format.
[/quote]
Nah, I disagree. The problem is the judges, not the lift. It may not always be easy to see, but hip crease at the patella is hip crease at the patella.
[quote]MightyMouse17 wrote:
Nah, I disagree. The problem is the judges, not the lift. It may not always be easy to see, but hip crease at the patella is hip crease at the patella.
[/quote]
Oh I certainly agree w/ your description of proper execution, but squat depth is certainly a center of debate and negativity among many. Unless its ATG or clearly below parallel, people wanna argue depth.
And you’re right, bad judging doesn’t help either.
No matter what - powerlifting just isn’t as entertaining as Olympic lifting.
I think if Olympic lifting loses its appeal, powerlifting may have a shot; but it seems to me more countries do Olympic lifting than powerlifting. I could be wrong in saying that, but the popularity of Olympic lifting is not the same in America as it is elsewhere. Kinda like soccer.
[quote]StrengthDawg wrote:
I think we are all just full of shit and like to bitch about other peoples business. SMH. [/quote]
lol this completely