NEWS FLASH
I don?t think WW3 is either inevitable or a good thing. If it can be avoided it should.
greater israel is basically all the land across the archaeological Fertile Crescent (israel, lebanon, syria, southern turkey, iraq, part of iran)
i’m not surprised the rhetoric is aimed at them…
i’m tired of this special interest shit. america needs to be controlled by americans, not anyone else.
this a load of bullshit.
why son’t you bring up some natzi literarure to prove it? they printed out some great arguments those guys. very convincing.
greater Israel. you natzi fuck. go read the bible and see that even in the days of king david the ancient Israely kingdom was marealy at parts of syria and jordan of today. turkey.Iraq? why not russia while we’re at it? again, that jewish conspiracy to take over the world. how can you not distinct between firing a missle on an empty (!) terrorrist camp (that boasted videos of training terrorists) and actual terrorist action? we have more proof that suria is promoting terror inside our cities then america had when it attacked afghanistan. Israel is the same as bin laden? what is more disturbing that the other americans dont shish this fucker down.
danh. you accurate and comprehensive knowledge of the conflict is impressive.
S-man
Same AS Bin Laden
I said
Same thing TO Bin Laden
Totally different meaning
hey glute
look at the names beside the posts!
WWIII was the cold war
though it still could be #4 if Israeli hardliners convince Bush its OK to invade Syria - which they ACTUALLY ARE DISCUSSING right now, if you can believe that.
Their (Bush Admin) level of ignorance of history is astounding.
glute, this is another example of how retarded you are… speaking out of your ass, never stopping to think what you say.
i am not a nazi fuck. i am actually 1/4 jewish so shut the fuck up. i am actually one of those jews that doesn’t believe all the nationalistic bullshit sharon and his buddies are feeding your ass down there in your “country without supplements and power racks”.
the word “iraq” is not in the bible as far as i know it, but check out deuteronomy 11:24
"Every place whereon the soles of your feet shall tread shall be yours: from the wilderness and Lebanon, from the river, the river Euphrates, even unto the uttermost sea shall your coast be. "
it’s this simple line, along with others just like it, that probably convinced bush that he needed to invade iraq.
radical jews are convinced they need to take the land. radical christians are convinced jews need to take the land to bring about the coming of the messiah.
america has been hijacked by religious fanatics.
"also know that for a long time before 1947, muslims and jews lived together peacefully for the most part.
it wasn’t until 1947 that tensions rose. in my opinion ben-gurion and his terrorist organization had a lot to do with that."
Ummm…what alternate universe are you referring to? BTW, the Arabs (including those within Palestine) supported the Nazis against the Allies. And there were Arab terrorist attacks against Jews in Palestine.
“when it seemed like there was going to be peace in the middle east in 1993, it was an israeli religious zealot who shot prime minister rabin and the region has been going backward since then with netanyahu, peres, and sharon.”
No, it didn’t go backward. In fact, it went forward! Barak was then able to make them a more openhanded offer than most of Israeli society could have possibly imagined in 1993, and Arafat amazingly refused it. Furthermore, people on Arafat’s cabinet have been quoted as admitting that Arafat set the 2nd Intifada into motion (predating Sharon’s demonstration at the Temple Mount) as a bargaining too. BTW, the significance of Sharon’s appearance was that when the Arabs were in charge of the Temple Mount, Jews were not allowed to go there and pray (without being killed or having boiling water thrown on them.
“in my opinion israeli fanaticism is the driving force for instability in the region.”
The biggest issue for Muslim fantacism has been what they call “Americanization” and American military presence in holy Saudia Arabia. Check the tenets of Wahabiism.
As a side note, if the USA stops backing Israel now, then the Islamists will score that as a victory and incite more Arabs to their side. That’s the record of their propaganda.
As for this list of grievances…
“1) the creation of israel in 1947”
Are you saying that the creation of a Jewish state in the region was itself a legitimate grievance? Actually, two countries were created and Arab society couldn’t deal with that at the time, so their nations attacked to “drive the Jews into the sea.”
“2) expatriation of arabs who had lived on israeli lands”
The leaders of those Arab countries which attacked in 1948 have at times admitted that the blame lies also with them.
“3) extended occupation of palestinian territories, and”
Maybe, but it’s interesting to consider how since 1967, this complaint has shifted from occupation of Jordanian and Syrian territory.
“4) sloppy attacks against suspected terrorists that take many innocent lives”
I agree that this is a legitimate grievance. However, Israel has a great record when it comes to sparing innocent lives compared to ANY OTHER country engaging in similar operations. Israel’s MO is in fact to wait for Arab civilians to be out of the way when it targets a terrorist in the occupied territories. And the terrorists deliberately locate their operations amidst civilians. This makes sense according to their sick paralogic. They desemminate “suicide bombs,” the whole point of which is that the death of the “oppressed” registers as a score for the oppressed. Its calculated to show how desperate their situation is.
Sharon, however, I think is more into displays of loud military might, so I think this might put more civilians at risk than previously.
The fence sucks but I think it’s a great bargaining chip for peace, a firm threat to get your house in order and bargain before less land is on the table. It is certainly more of a justifiable threat than news footage of a raving populace cheering at a burning effigy of Orthodox Jewish families on a bus.
i am not referring to an alternate universe. i am referring to David Ben-Gurion, the first prime minister of israel, who can be considered a terrorist by today’s standards.
these terrorist attacks by arabs you speak about, didn’t they occur during world war 2?
the peace process did go backward. under the deal that arafat was offered, palestine looked a group of tiny volcanic islands in the pacific. also, the right of return/reparations to palestinians was not even on the table. of course he rejected that deal!
also, the original UN plan for israel/palestine called for the internationalization of jerusalem. what has israel done since then? claimed it as its capital. did you know bush signed legislation finally recognizing jerusalem as israel’s capital in oct 2002? that’s kinda going backwards when the original plan was for an international city.
yes the creation of israel was a legitimate grievance. in principle and in practice the state of israel is an apartheid government based on religion. arabs living in the israeli partition of the land were immediately considered 2nd-class citizens.
expatriation of arabs living in palestitian lands was a result of many things, mainly ammo falling down from the sky. howerver, it is israel’s current policy that arabs don’t have the right to return.
israeli occupation has been hilighted relatively recently because that occupation seems like opression. jordan, egypt, and syria did not have checkpoints and military incursions into the palestinian neighborhoods.
i don’t know the exact figure, but thousands of palestinial lives have been lost in the last couple of years because of military incursions, on the order of those lost in the world trade center. sheer numbers don’t support israel’s great record in executing careful military incursions.
these negotiations are horrible. having a fence as a bargaining chip is almost as bad as having suicide bombings as bargaining chips.
I wanted to add something to my post. The Israelis try to get medical attention to innocent bystanders in the occupied territories who are injured in attacks on terrorists, but the Palestinians typically refuse it, although they understand that (1) Israeli doctors are going to triage them like everyone else (which they know from the ones who have accepted it) and (2) Palestinian medical care is pathetic, whereas the Israeli emergency medical care has developed to handle every contingency (thanks to terrorist attacks). When the Western media relates Palestinian claims that an Israeli checkpoint prevented a Palestinian from receiving proper medical attention, it means “from a Palestinian hospital.”
danh: being jewish or not does not give you right to fart lies like blaming jews and bush on a conspiracy based on the new testament. you are a nut case if you think that is true. if this is not natzi shit then what is? do you think 99% percent of the israelies read that or give a fuck? whay do I always have to repeat it:
A. Israel is the only democracy in the middle east.
B. Israel was attacked on 6 official wars and unending guerilla actions by nations and parties wanting to destroy it.
C. Israel has one of the moral armies in the world, a thing that isnt moral by definition. I wish there wasnt an army and no one was killed, but our lives are in danger for 55 years, can you even imagine it?
D. Israel, like any country, had made and will make mistakes. IMO staying in the occupied territories is one. but the alternative, lashing an army of 3 million palestinians at a smaller Israel, is not that pleasent.
E. I cant even count the numerous differences of the tactics our enemies use both at lies and in battle that dim them imoral and unworthy of any sane man supporting them. search the net.
brian: thank you
I think btw sharon is a stupid ass too, has and always will be. we suffer of luck of leaders, much like most of the parties invoved, I’m afraid. attacking suria was right but not smart… the man actualy wants to move attention from the economical mess we have. thats what I think.
glute, is that all you can do? call my info lies when it’s all quickly verifable by reputable sources?
the old testament is not a “conspiracy”. instead it is an open-source plan of action. of course most level-headed people don’t take all of what’s in there literally. a few zealots do on the other hand.
and i am not a nut case. i have pretty good mental health and above average verbal and abstract abilities. it seems you always resort to name calling when things don’t go your way.
israel is not a democracy in principle… that is just what special interst says everytime it wants to convince people that “muslims hate democracy”. if you believe an apartheid society is a democracy then you are dillusional.
israel by the same token has equal involvement in those wars. when egypt nationalized the suez canal, guess which “democracy” was the cause of war. did you know that your peace-loving israel attacked the USS Liberty back in the day. which country murders ‘supsected’ terrorist in extra-judicial incursions? the word democracy gets tossed around too frequenly nowadays.
moral army? what the fuck does that mean? there is no sense in refuting such an absurd statement.
i’m glad that you concede that israel makes mistakes. that is the first step towards lasting peace. israel has to admit mistakes and address them; palestinians have to admit mistakes and address them.
regarding lies: there is plenty of bullshit and misinformation on the internet. that is why one must always look to unbiased, reputable sources. all of my opinions have come about as a result of extensive research to satisfy my personal curiosity. i can’t defend every single source i’ve come across, just as you can’t. but just because someone has a different source doesn’t necessarily mean it is a lie.
yes sharon is an idiot. he has a personal vendetta against arafat and it shows.
dahn,
Do you honestly believe that having a fence as a barganing chip, is as bad as having suicide bombings as a barganing chip?
If so, you might want to re-think your priorities.
Everyone has an opinion, but one thing seems to have been proven by the test of time. No matter what Israel does, what they get in return is more terrorist attacks.
If I was running Israel the policy would be simple, the next time we get attacked, we will retaliate until the origin of the attack did not have one stone standing on top of another. Any country, or organization that believes it is okay to murder innocent people gets what they get.
Just my .02
Well, let me shift the discussion slightly to a risk-benefit proposition that may be more nerve-racking than the attack within Syrian territory.
If Iran continues to build facilities to enrich uranium for use in a nuclear weapon, how do people feel if Israel destroyed it before they got that capability (as it did with Saddam Hussein)? This may be something the US will encourage them to do so that we do not have to face a problem like the one with North Korea.
Do my fellow Americans think that this is in our long-term interest? In the interest of the region? In the interest of protecting democracy? Chances are that Arab regimes will bow to their populace and call such an act “Zionist imperialism.” If so, should this matter?
“which country murders ‘supsected’ terrorist in extra-judicial incursions?”
…the United States? Sorry, but I couldn’t resist that. Clearly if you avow yourself a “soldier” in a war against a country and declare your intent to murder its citizens, you are a military target.
Did we have to put people training to kill Americans at Al Quada camps on trial before the world court before we sent bombs into them?
the geneva conventions established procedure for dealing with combatants, protected persons, civilians, etc.
if israel suspects a palestinian of being a terrorist, that person must be tried in some sort of court, military tribunal is ok.
iran has claimed that its nuclear technology is not for weapons and has volunteered to undergo inspections under the IAEA.
if the US or israel attacks iran and we find no “smoking gun”, then the international community, incl. arabs, will be extremely suspicious of the larger motives involved.
the bush administration is in no position to get into another pre-emptive war with all the criticism it is taking right now. if anything, bush will probably call for sanctions of iran and syria and deal with them later if he has another term.
scott, yes i think that the fence is THAT bad.
the security fence is economically and socially more destructive than a couple of suicide bombs.
palestinian GDP is on the floor right now.
“iran has claimed that its nuclear technology is not for weapons and has volunteered to undergo inspections under the IAEA.”
Dahn, unfortunately the newest-latest on that is that the IAEA told Iran that it didn’t have to enrich uranium to that degree and Iran has told the IAEA that it’s not going to cooperate.