WTF Penn State?!?!?!

The new University President is in full damage control mode after getting quite a few dates and sequence of events badly mixed up in statements to reporters…

He is talking about “honoring” Paterno because the alums with deep pockets (make NO mistake, this, just like everything else in life is about the CASH) just like the current students, think JoPa got the screw job…and he needs the money and support of the powerful alumni to move Penn State forward, badly.

Paterno was never fired, to the best of my knowledge he was asked to resign with full salary and benefits so I guess he would be covered by the university in a criminal case. But does that extend to civil litigation as well? I don’t know that.

And correct me if I am wrong, but in civil litigation…does it only take a majority of jurors to be convinced by a lawyer that Paterno was asleep at the wheel during at least some of the alleged molestation? For him to be financially culpable?

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
I don’t remember any of this shit…

http://wherehaveyougonejoe.com/public_html/article.php?story=20111112110527690
[/quote]

I posted that SI ran an article detailing certain college pograms that have or had players in legitimate legal trouble, and Penn State was at the top of that list. This was in '08 I believe. Anyone who keeps saying what a great guy Paterno is clearly will not or cannot see the truth. [/quote]

Well, I’m totally hesitant to even temporarily drop into this clusterfuck thread but a couple things hit me about this article:

  1. I don’t think this is any different than any other major D1 program in terms of people getting into trouble with the law. Go to any storied program and you’ll find the same thing–the difference here is that you can put all of this “onto Joe” because he’s been there since 1966. So that makes it look “more suspicious”. Most coaches revolve every 5-10 years and the programs still have this kind of trouble with the law, so I really don’t think Joe deserves any more condemnation than the rest of D1 football for this track record.

  2. Yes I know Penn State is at the top in regards to the number of players in trouble with the law in a D1 program. However, not to take anything away from the facts, but there might be several non-football reasons for this including population centers and demographics. Where the players live outside of State College, etc. I’m not trying to discount what you posted in the link really, but it’s pretty well known that geographic regions/states, and other factors play into crime levels, and not just everyday folks. For instance, I’ll bet you almost anything you’ll find less crime among football players in, say, Kansas, than you will in Cali or New York. That wouldn’t say anything about their coaches per se.

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
I don’t remember any of this shit…

http://wherehaveyougonejoe.com/public_html/article.php?story=20111112110527690
[/quote]

I posted that SI ran an article detailing certain college pograms that have or had players in legitimate legal trouble, and Penn State was at the top of that list. This was in '08 I believe. Anyone who keeps saying what a great guy Paterno is clearly will not or cannot see the truth. [/quote]

Well, I’m totally hesitant to even temporarily drop into this clusterfuck thread but a couple things hit me about this article:

  1. I don’t think this is any different than any other major D1 program in terms of people getting into trouble with the law. Go to any storied program and you’ll find the same thing–the difference here is that you can put all of this “onto Joe” because he’s been there since 1966. So that makes it look “more suspicious”. Most coaches revolve every 5-10 years and the programs still have this kind of trouble with the law, so I really don’t think Joe deserves any more condemnation than the rest of D1 football for this track record.

  2. Yes I know Penn State is at the top in regards to the number of players in trouble with the law in a D1 program. However, not to take anything away from the facts, but there might be several non-football reasons for this including population centers and demographics. Where the players live outside of State College, etc. I’m not trying to discount what you posted in the link really, but it’s pretty well known that geographic regions/states, and other factors play into crime levels, and not just everyday folks. For instance, I’ll bet you almost anything you’ll find less crime among football players in, say, Kansas, than you will in Cali or New York. That wouldn’t say anything about their coaches per se.[/quote]

Forgive me if I’m wrong, but are you saying that State College doesn’t have the same crime potential as anywhere else?

[quote]UtahLama wrote:
The new University President is in full damage control mode after getting quite a few dates and sequence of events badly mixed up in statements to reporters…

He is talking about “honoring” Paterno because the alums with deep pockets (make NO mistake, this, just like everything else in life is about the CASH) just like the current students, think JoPa got the screw job…and he needs the money and support of the powerful alumni to move Penn State forward, badly.

Paterno was never fired, to the best of my knowledge he was asked to resign with full salary and benefits so I guess he would be covered by the university in a criminal case. But does that extend to civil litigation as well? I don’t know that.

And correct me if I am wrong, but in civil litigation…does it only take a majority of jurors to be convinced by a lawyer that Paterno was asleep at the wheel during at least some of the alleged molestation? For him to be financially culpable?[/quote]

Paterno was dismissed/terminated. He received a phone call wherein he was told “your services are no longer required” or something along those lines. It was brief and unceremonious and it was by phone. That is a fact. He did not resign. He “resigned” prior to being fired by announcing the past season would be his last. He was shortly thereafter terminated.

As for the alumni, I agree there is political concerns there, but do you think a group of educated adults are just blindly loyal to PSU? Or do you think Paterno might have gotten unfairly railroaded? There is a mini-revolt occurring among the alumni to the extent the held their own “alumni meetings”. Not only are they unhappy with how the whole affair has been handled, but they are almost uniform in their belief that Paterno was scapegoated. And its pretty extraordinary for a University in full damage control mode to backpedal even an inch and soften its position on Paterno. In fact, it’s remarkable given that they fired him, ostensibly in connection with this scandal.

There is no criminal case against Paterno. Hence, no criminal defense necessary. He will likely be named a party in forthcoming civil suits as will ANY employee of PSU that had any knowledge of situation, limited or otherwise - and they will all be defended by PSU.

Believe it or not, Sandusky may even be afforded a civil defense b/c he has not yet been convicted of any crime. That’s a pretty sensitive legal analysis but it’s possible.

At the time of the alleged negligence, Paterno would have been an employee of PSU and hence covered under their policy. He likely faces no personal exposure unless he was criminally negligent, grossly negligent or if a verdict was rendered in excess of the coverages afforded PSU (the answer to the first two is no and no. The third is a bit more complicated analysis but unlikely inasmuch as PSU likely has high limits with plenty of excess coverage).

The standard in a civil case is “preponderance of evidence” meaning roughly more likely than not. How many jurors are required for a verdict varies from State to State. “Asleep behind the wheel” will depend, as I’ve stated before, “what he knew and when”. Moreover, Paterno had no supervisory responsibilities or privileges concerning Sandusky so your “asleep at the wheel” analogy is a non-starter. Paterno was simply not the decision-maker that so many would like him to be in this regard. If Paterno was his supervisor, that’s another matter. But imbuing him with imaginary powers as head of the football program will not cut it legally - it only cuts it to sell newspapers, and inflame the public. At the end of the day, Paterno did EXACTLY what was required of him. The likely exposure for PSU lies in those above Paterno.

If his knowledge is limited to what McQueary reported to him and he was not involved thereafter his exposure is pretty damn limited. Of course, I’m spit-balling this based on the limited information we have now. But there is simply no indication he was informed of anything after his initial report or, that he was party to any further deliberation on the matter.

Trust me, Paterno is not the target civilly. He’s just a big fish name, and he’s an employee in the chain of events. I’m guessing there will be no verdicts, just settlements although the party represented by Klein & Specter (Arlen’s son) might be problematic - they are a high profile firm and they like to swing for the fence.

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]Sweet Revenge wrote:
I don’t remember any of this shit…

http://wherehaveyougonejoe.com/public_html/article.php?story=20111112110527690
[/quote]

I posted that SI ran an article detailing certain college pograms that have or had players in legitimate legal trouble, and Penn State was at the top of that list. This was in '08 I believe. Anyone who keeps saying what a great guy Paterno is clearly will not or cannot see the truth. [/quote]

Well, I’m totally hesitant to even temporarily drop into this clusterfuck thread but a couple things hit me about this article:

  1. I don’t think this is any different than any other major D1 program in terms of people getting into trouble with the law. Go to any storied program and you’ll find the same thing–the difference here is that you can put all of this “onto Joe” because he’s been there since 1966. So that makes it look “more suspicious”. Most coaches revolve every 5-10 years and the programs still have this kind of trouble with the law, so I really don’t think Joe deserves any more condemnation than the rest of D1 football for this track record.

  2. Yes I know Penn State is at the top in regards to the number of players in trouble with the law in a D1 program. However, not to take anything away from the facts, but there might be several non-football reasons for this including population centers and demographics. Where the players live outside of State College, etc. I’m not trying to discount what you posted in the link really, but it’s pretty well known that geographic regions/states, and other factors play into crime levels, and not just everyday folks. For instance, I’ll bet you almost anything you’ll find less crime among football players in, say, Kansas, than you will in Cali or New York. That wouldn’t say anything about their coaches per se.[/quote]

The logic and “math” he wants you to swallow is:

Football players behaving badly = Paterno is a bad guy.

He wants you to believe this in spite of no major NCAA violations which in and of itself is remarkable for a major program and, in spite of what everyone agrees was an upstanding life.

To engage WF further in this subject is to run the risk of being smacked with other such logical fallacies like Paterno wielded his power to the benefit of his program (all D1 football coaches do) and that because he had some influence there, he was all powerful and he’s to blame for the criminal act of a retired coach.

By the way, PSU is pretty isolated. Not much to do up there. It’s known as a “party school”. They make their own trouble. It’s not like a Temple, Columbia, etc. in the inner city. I think most of the problems up there would be isolated to the University.

Yup, this is a clusterfuck if there ever was one.
It’s amazing these guys have attorneys with the way they’ve been yapping to the press. Between Sandusky, Paterno, Erickson…they are just making a bad situation worse.

Sandusky’s just a big kid that loves to be around young people (according to him).
Paterno only knows football and love of Penn State…to the sad sad detriment of common sense and basic human decency. The guys got about as much ‘honor’ as Don Corleone. No doubt that Paterno’s lack of leadership cast its influental shadow onto the other knuckheads’ actions so they ended up being cowards as well.

People were used to seeing Paterno as a leader, as a man who had an influential say. It would not suprise me if his relative silence was taken as a cue, intended or not. Then you’ve got the alumni wimpering that their hero godfather’s reputation has been unfairly tarnished.

Let’s hope that the investigations and the legal system can sort it all out fairly.

I’m fairly confident that 10-15 years from now, PSU will be a much better place.