WTF Penn State?!?!?!

xXxJoKeRxXx · November 14, 2011, 3:54am

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]xXxJoKeRxXx wrote:
I’ve talked to a few of my friends about this (couple even PSU fans). What I’m finding is two major points of view regarding Paterno.

One is that he notified his higher ups about the incident, which he didn’t see happen, but was just a go between for McQueary and Curley, and this absolves him for the majority of the responsibility for the most part.

The other view is that with his legendary status at PSU, he IS the higher up, more so than Curley. And that being a former assistant coach, the meeting with Curley was somewhat about helping Sandusky by not going to the police himself.

These seem to be the two points of view I’ve been hearing from them, both purely based on personal view or which side of the fence you’re on. Fact is he knew as well as McQueary, police weren’t contacted, that’s a hurdle I can’t get over, not to mention that McQueary’s father knew as well. It’s eerily similar to the movie ‘Deliverance’ but in real life lol.
[/quote]

Your conclusion is absolutely positively SPECULATIVE. For all Paterno knows, it’s reported to the police after he reports it to Curley. My point remains…we do not know what he knew, or when he knew it beyond the initial report. Your speculation about him engaging in some QB session with Curley (ostensibly to engage in a cover up or not call police) is entirely inconsistent with the indictment of Curley and not Paterno and, the fact that Paterno is a witness for the State. [/quote]

This is pure semantics. These are the points of view that I been hearing from friends. Of course it’s all speculation, as none of us were there. You prefer to defend his actions (purely speculative) and some don’t defend his actions (purely speculative)

It’s ‘speculative’ as to why Paterno had to go to Curley in the first place? His phone died? Can’t drive stick? This was HIS former coach, not Curley’s

You said,

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
For all Paterno knows, it’s reported to the police after he reports it to Curley. [/quote]
I don’t know about you, but if I was Paterno and told Curley and ‘speculated’ that he’d gone to the police, I’d be waiting for an investigator to be knocking at my door, or to go to the crime scene in the school locker room, knock at McQueary’s door, and to hear about it through the grapevine sooner or later. Months go by and nothing is heard by anyone??? I’d begin to ‘speculate’ that Curley didn’t go to the police. And go there myself. That’s just me. And again, why is it Curley’s responsibility to go to police more so that Paterno’s???

This is unfortunate, cuz Paterno should of never been put in this position. When McQueary told his dad that night, they should of gone to police ASAP. Likewise when they went to Paterno, they should of gone to police. This delay or huddle (pardon the pun) that kept evolving just makes thing more suspicious as to a cover up IMO. Purely speculative.

therajraj · November 14, 2011, 4:22am

Judge Who Set Unsecured Bail For Jerry Sandusky Is a Second Mile Volunteer (Sandusky’s charity)

xXxJoKeRxXx · November 14, 2011, 4:54am

[quote]therajraj wrote:

Judge Who Set Unsecured Bail For Jerry Sandusky Is a Second Mile Volunteer (Sandusky’s charity)[/quote]

lmfao, prosecuter’s wanted $500,000 bail, the judge said no bail providing he shows up to court?? This is one fukked up town/buddy system they got going on in d’em parts.

I fukn love the first comment in regards to that article.

[quote]I didn’t even know there was a type of bail that didn’t require, y’know, posting bail.[/quote] PRICELESS

bcingu · November 14, 2011, 7:21am

TheBodyGuard · November 14, 2011, 1:10pm

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Christine wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Christine wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Christine wrote:
In my mind, anyone who is involved in covering up such an abuse is just as guilty as the abuser.

I don’t care what they have done with their life. [/quote]

strawman.

I implied no such comparison if he’s involved in a cover up. [/quote]

I didn’t quote you and so I don’t know why you are taking offence here.

I stand by what I say. Anyone who knows and does anything, including staying silent, to cover up such actions is as big of a shit as the perpetrator of such actions.

[/quote]

I concur.

However, since I cited “body of work” and you alluded to it, you might as well quoted me. I took no offense. It’s the internet and it’s not exactly a collection of intellectual heavyweights. It’s just the typical herd…going “mooo”. Or is it “baaaah”? My hearing is bad.
[/quote]

Okay then, why would you even refer to JoPa’s ‘body of work’ then.

I don’t give a shit what he has done and it has absolutely no place in this discussion.

[/quote]

If you have been following my position, you would understand perfectly why I cited his “body of work”.

By all accounts, his body of work is significant. By all accounts, the man has lead a decent upstanding life.

It would be wholly, wildly even, inconsistent with the foregoing for him to ignore, condone or turn a blind eye to child abuse.

That’s why I want to know all the FACTS. We don’t have them yet. [/quote]

So what are you doing with Paterno’s statement, “with the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more”?

If HE thinks he should have done more why don’t you?

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/joe-paterno-named-a-defendant-penn-state-sex-abuse-scandal-article-1.975457#ixzz1deFvYz8a
[/quote]

Hindsight Push? That’s pretty weak. With the benefit of hindsight, we ALL do something different when something bad occurs.

TheBodyGuard · November 14, 2011, 1:14pm

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Christine wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Christine wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Christine wrote:
In my mind, anyone who is involved in covering up such an abuse is just as guilty as the abuser.

I don’t care what they have done with their life. [/quote]

strawman.

I implied no such comparison if he’s involved in a cover up. [/quote]

I didn’t quote you and so I don’t know why you are taking offence here.

I stand by what I say. Anyone who knows and does anything, including staying silent, to cover up such actions is as big of a shit as the perpetrator of such actions.

[/quote]

I concur.

However, since I cited “body of work” and you alluded to it, you might as well quoted me. I took no offense. It’s the internet and it’s not exactly a collection of intellectual heavyweights. It’s just the typical herd…going “mooo”. Or is it “baaaah”? My hearing is bad.
[/quote]

Okay then, why would you even refer to JoPa’s ‘body of work’ then.

I don’t give a shit what he has done and it has absolutely no place in this discussion.

[/quote]

If you have been following my position, you would understand perfectly why I cited his “body of work”.

By all accounts, his body of work is significant. By all accounts, the man has lead a decent upstanding life.

It would be wholly, wildly even, inconsistent with the foregoing for him to ignore, condone or turn a blind eye to child abuse.

That’s why I want to know all the FACTS. We don’t have them yet. [/quote]

So what are you doing with Paterno’s statement, “with the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more”?

If HE thinks he should have done more why don’t you?

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/joe-paterno-named-a-defendant-penn-state-sex-abuse-scandal-article-1.975457#ixzz1deFvYz8a
[/quote]

by the way, to more fully address your question, it’s not that I do or do not think he should have done more. I’ve said more than once, when determining culpability, you need to examine these things in real time - not in reverse (the latter of which is nothing but “hindsight”). like I’ve said, I want to know what he knew and when (after they made the initial report). not sure how many times I can say it, and what you said above does not address it.

xXxJoKeRxXx · November 14, 2011, 6:03pm

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Christine wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Christine wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Christine wrote:
In my mind, anyone who is involved in covering up such an abuse is just as guilty as the abuser.

I don’t care what they have done with their life. [/quote]

strawman.

I implied no such comparison if he’s involved in a cover up. [/quote]

I didn’t quote you and so I don’t know why you are taking offence here.

I stand by what I say. Anyone who knows and does anything, including staying silent, to cover up such actions is as big of a shit as the perpetrator of such actions.

[/quote]

I concur.

However, since I cited “body of work” and you alluded to it, you might as well quoted me. I took no offense. It’s the internet and it’s not exactly a collection of intellectual heavyweights. It’s just the typical herd…going “mooo”. Or is it “baaaah”? My hearing is bad.
[/quote]

Okay then, why would you even refer to JoPa’s ‘body of work’ then.

I don’t give a shit what he has done and it has absolutely no place in this discussion.

[/quote]

If you have been following my position, you would understand perfectly why I cited his “body of work”.

By all accounts, his body of work is significant. By all accounts, the man has lead a decent upstanding life.

It would be wholly, wildly even, inconsistent with the foregoing for him to ignore, condone or turn a blind eye to child abuse.

That’s why I want to know all the FACTS. We don’t have them yet. [/quote]

So what are you doing with Paterno’s statement, “with the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more”?

If HE thinks he should have done more why don’t you?

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/joe-paterno-named-a-defendant-penn-state-sex-abuse-scandal-article-1.975457#ixzz1deFvYz8a
[/quote]

by the way, to more fully address your question, it’s not that I do or do not think he should have done more. I’ve said more than once, when determining culpability, you need to examine these things in real time - not in reverse (the latter of which is nothing but “hindsight”). like I’ve said, I want to know what he knew and when (after they made the initial report). not sure how many times I can say it, and what you said above does not address it.
[/quote]
I see where you’re getting at, but if you blame one for not coming forward, you have to blame all who knew. Simple. I think I posted this prior, McQueary should of himself gone or contacted the police, he didn’t (mistake), he told his dad they did not contact police (mistake 2), then he contacted Paterno and no contact still with police (mistake 3) and then they apparently contacted a school official and Curley and no contact to police (mistake 4). By not coming forward each one just compounded/avoided (whatever you want to call it) the situation IMO.

Is this bad that all Paterno’s charitbe work and philanthropy will be over shadowed by all this?? Of course, but some wrong’s are way more impactful than a right

Edit. I think heard on TV that they are trying to figure out if they have a case for the ones who didn’t come forward?? Am I hearing this right??

TheBodyGuard · November 14, 2011, 6:15pm

[quote]xXxJoKeRxXx wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Christine wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Christine wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Christine wrote:
In my mind, anyone who is involved in covering up such an abuse is just as guilty as the abuser.

I don’t care what they have done with their life. [/quote]

strawman.

I implied no such comparison if he’s involved in a cover up. [/quote]

I didn’t quote you and so I don’t know why you are taking offence here.

I stand by what I say. Anyone who knows and does anything, including staying silent, to cover up such actions is as big of a shit as the perpetrator of such actions.

[/quote]

I concur.

However, since I cited “body of work” and you alluded to it, you might as well quoted me. I took no offense. It’s the internet and it’s not exactly a collection of intellectual heavyweights. It’s just the typical herd…going “mooo”. Or is it “baaaah”? My hearing is bad.
[/quote]

Okay then, why would you even refer to JoPa’s ‘body of work’ then.

I don’t give a shit what he has done and it has absolutely no place in this discussion.

[/quote]

If you have been following my position, you would understand perfectly why I cited his “body of work”.

By all accounts, his body of work is significant. By all accounts, the man has lead a decent upstanding life.

It would be wholly, wildly even, inconsistent with the foregoing for him to ignore, condone or turn a blind eye to child abuse.

That’s why I want to know all the FACTS. We don’t have them yet. [/quote]

So what are you doing with Paterno’s statement, “with the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more”?

If HE thinks he should have done more why don’t you?

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/joe-paterno-named-a-defendant-penn-state-sex-abuse-scandal-article-1.975457#ixzz1deFvYz8a
[/quote]

by the way, to more fully address your question, it’s not that I do or do not think he should have done more. I’ve said more than once, when determining culpability, you need to examine these things in real time - not in reverse (the latter of which is nothing but “hindsight”). like I’ve said, I want to know what he knew and when (after they made the initial report). not sure how many times I can say it, and what you said above does not address it.
[/quote]
I see where you’re getting at, but if you blame one for not coming forward, you have to blame all who knew. Simple. I think I posted this prior, McQueary should of himself gone or contacted the police, he didn’t (mistake), he told his dad they did not contact police (mistake 2), then he contacted Paterno and no contact still with police (mistake 3) and then they apparently contacted a school official and Curley and no contact to police (mistake 4). By not coming forward each one just compounded/avoided (whatever you want to call it) the situation IMO.

Is this bad that all Paterno’s charitbe work and philanthropy will be over shadowed by all this?? Of course, but some wrong’s are way more impactful than a right

Edit. I think heard on TV that they are trying to figure out if they have a case for the ones who didn’t come forward?? Am I hearing this right??[/quote]

What I was getting at was clear the entire time. Every post of mine was clear. Only feeble attempts to be clever in rebuttal clouded “what I was getting at”.

You’re still engaging in shoulda woulda coulda as it pertains to Joe Pa. Without the benefit of temporal context, you cannot say what he should have done and when. Of course after-the-fact it’s clear as a fucking bell what he coulda and shoulda done. Hindsight is gifted like that.

But if I reported something like this upstream in a campus setting to my superior, I don’t think it’s entirely unreasonable to assume that they are going to DO THEIR JOB, up to and including a police report if required. I mention “campus setting” because the campus is almost a town unto itself, with an actual police department - yes, “actual”. Some derisively call it “campus” police but they are sworn officers with the same duties and powers of any other police.

This is getting exhausting, but I’ll repeat it again; we do not know what Curley, et als. reported back to Paterno. I want to know what he knew and when, in temporal context.

I’m not “defending” Paterno and I’m certainly not defending any molester, let alone a fucking adult that actually claims to have witnessed the abuse and pretty much went about his business thereafter. No one’s actions here “add up”. There’s a lot missing.

xXxJoKeRxXx · November 14, 2011, 6:36pm

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]xXxJoKeRxXx wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Christine wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Christine wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Christine wrote:
In my mind, anyone who is involved in covering up such an abuse is just as guilty as the abuser.

I don’t care what they have done with their life. [/quote]

strawman.

I implied no such comparison if he’s involved in a cover up. [/quote]

I didn’t quote you and so I don’t know why you are taking offence here.

I stand by what I say. Anyone who knows and does anything, including staying silent, to cover up such actions is as big of a shit as the perpetrator of such actions.

[/quote]

I concur.

However, since I cited “body of work” and you alluded to it, you might as well quoted me. I took no offense. It’s the internet and it’s not exactly a collection of intellectual heavyweights. It’s just the typical herd…going “mooo”. Or is it “baaaah”? My hearing is bad.
[/quote]

Okay then, why would you even refer to JoPa’s ‘body of work’ then.

I don’t give a shit what he has done and it has absolutely no place in this discussion.

[/quote]

If you have been following my position, you would understand perfectly why I cited his “body of work”.

By all accounts, his body of work is significant. By all accounts, the man has lead a decent upstanding life.

It would be wholly, wildly even, inconsistent with the foregoing for him to ignore, condone or turn a blind eye to child abuse.

That’s why I want to know all the FACTS. We don’t have them yet. [/quote]

So what are you doing with Paterno’s statement, “with the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more”?

If HE thinks he should have done more why don’t you?

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/college/joe-paterno-named-a-defendant-penn-state-sex-abuse-scandal-article-1.975457#ixzz1deFvYz8a
[/quote]

by the way, to more fully address your question, it’s not that I do or do not think he should have done more. I’ve said more than once, when determining culpability, you need to examine these things in real time - not in reverse (the latter of which is nothing but “hindsight”). like I’ve said, I want to know what he knew and when (after they made the initial report). not sure how many times I can say it, and what you said above does not address it.
[/quote]
I see where you’re getting at, but if you blame one for not coming forward, you have to blame all who knew. Simple. I think I posted this prior, McQueary should of himself gone or contacted the police, he didn’t (mistake), he told his dad they did not contact police (mistake 2), then he contacted Paterno and no contact still with police (mistake 3) and then they apparently contacted a school official and Curley and no contact to police (mistake 4). By not coming forward each one just compounded/avoided (whatever you want to call it) the situation IMO.

Is this bad that all Paterno’s charitbe work and philanthropy will be over shadowed by all this?? Of course, but some wrong’s are way more impactful than a right

Edit. I think heard on TV that they are trying to figure out if they have a case for the ones who didn’t come forward?? Am I hearing this right??[/quote]

What I was getting at was clear the entire time. Every post of mine was clear. Only feeble attempts to be clever in rebuttal clouded “what I was getting at”.

You’re still engaging in shoulda woulda coulda as it pertains to Joe Pa. Without the benefit of temporal context, you cannot say what he should have done and when. Of course after-the-fact it’s clear as a fucking bell what he coulda and shoulda done. Hindsight is gifted like that.

But if I reported something like this upstream in a campus setting to my superior, I don’t think it’s entirely unreasonable to assume that they are going to DO THEIR JOB, up to and including a police report if required. I mention “campus setting” because the campus is almost a town unto itself, with an actual police department - yes, “actual”. Some derisively call it “campus” police but they are sworn officers with the same duties and powers of any other police.

This is getting exhausting, but I’ll repeat it again; we do not know what Curley, et als. reported back to Paterno. I want to know what he knew and when, in temporal context.

I’m not “defending” Paterno and I’m certainly not defending any molester, let alone a fucking adult that actually claims to have witnessed the abuse and pretty much went about his business thereafter. No one’s actions here “add up”. There’s a lot missing.
[/quote]

I totally agree, there is a lot of the puzzle missing IMO, but from what we have so far, and was given to the grand jury and reported back to us, that’s all we have to base opinions on. The fact that JoePa said “i shoulda done more” does not bode well for his image really. Agreed hindsight is 20/20 and that sentiment JoePa should of been shared with everyone who knew.

I don’t think it matters what Curley reported back to JoePa. Again, I think JoePa is reasonable enough to expect some investigators at the school and at the alleged crime scene, if not that at least a follow up converstion with he and McQueary to ask him he’d been questioned by police as the only eyewitness to the event. Again, I’m not putting extra blame on Paterno, just equal to the others who didn’t come forward, and less than McQueary himself. I just realized that he (McQueary) was 27 at the time of the incident. Lordy.

tom63 · November 14, 2011, 7:29pm

Since this scandal broke I’ve been over at the PSU board at audibles . I have not read the entire thread since probably the same things are being said.

I have two very close friends who were abused sexually by people outside the family. The victims were both male and female and never came forward to protect themselves . Their parents made the call to not go forward . They weren’t mad at their families, they understood that they were looking out for them.

The abuser of the male here did it to me later. It was only sexually harassing talk and a quick cop a feel over my jeans. This happened at a carpentry job and lucky for me I was pulling nails with a crowbar at the time. I backed away raised the crowbar and nothing went further . I was scared at the time but never told my parents. Years later when I did my mother found out how my friend was abused. His was much worse I was told. My female friend also suffered much worse abuse btw .

It was at this time I realized I allowed him the chance to roam free and do it again . My friends also realized this as adults and felt some sadness. So if you try to come forward you did good in my book it’s more than I did or my friends did.

And Joe Paterno is being vilified as is McQueary. But they did try and aren’t up for perjury charges
Like the other two .

And for the why didn’t he do this or that stuff, no one knows what they’ll do when they see something like this. Especially when it’s a guy who you know and trust for 20 or so years. Think your dad or uncle doing this and you walking in. Mike McQueary went to school with Sandusky’s kids. He was coached by him. Played on one of his kid’s little league teams. I can see shock setting in, disbelief etc.

I think I’d react different if I saw this since someone tried it on me and I understand what it does to people. But since him and Paterno came forward I won’t criticize their actions until I see more cold hard facts to change my mind.

Body of work does go to credibility as the bodyguard said.

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Christine wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Christine wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Christine wrote:
In my mind, anyone who is involved in covering up such an abuse is just as guilty as the abuser.

I don’t care what they have done with their life. [/quote]

strawman.

I implied no such comparison if he’s involved in a cover up. [/quote]

I didn’t quote you and so I don’t know why you are taking offence here.

I stand by what I say. Anyone who knows and does anything, including staying silent, to cover up such actions is as big of a shit as the perpetrator of such actions.

[/quote]

I concur.

However, since I cited “body of work” and you alluded to it, you might as well quoted me. I took no offense. It’s the internet and it’s not exactly a collection of intellectual heavyweights. It’s just the typical herd…going “mooo”. Or is it “baaaah”? My hearing is bad.
[/quote]

Okay then, why would you even refer to JoPa’s ‘body of work’ then.

I don’t give a shit what he has done and it has absolutely no place in this discussion.

[/quote]

If you have been following my position, you would understand perfectly why I cited his “body of work”.

By all accounts, his body of work is significant. By all accounts, the man has lead a decent upstanding life.

It would be wholly, wildly even, inconsistent with the foregoing for him to ignore, condone or turn a blind eye to child abuse.

That’s why I want to know all the FACTS. We don’t have them yet. [/quote]

tom63 · November 14, 2011, 7:32pm

You are exactly 100% correct IMO .