[quote]Pedo_Bear wrote:
Donut62 wrote:
What is Max-OT?
[/quote]
I read about two lines of this. Anything proclaiming itself as the “Ultimate Muscle Building Program” is too full of itself for me to give a shit about. Squat, Deadlift, Press, Row, Chin, repeat. WS4SB3 has a good set up for doing just that.
[quote]Donut62 wrote:
Pedo_Bear wrote:
Donut62 wrote:
What is Max-OT?
I read about two lines of this. Anything proclaiming itself as the “Ultimate Muscle Building Program” is too full of itself for me to give a shit about. Squat, Deadlift, Press, Row, Chin, repeat. WS4SB3 has a good set up for doing just that.[/quote]
But the thing about WS4SB is that there aren’t enough sets on the “main lift” you work up to a 5 rm and then you move on to supp exersises. I mean he does say you can do “back off” sets for high reps, but i’m not sure if you can do say two more heavy sets of 3-5 with risking burnout. Research has shown that single sets are not enough to give STR gains.
Do you think i could do say my 3-5 RM and then after do a couple more triples or sets of 5 on my ME lift each?
thanks.
[quote]Pedo_Bear wrote:
Hi guys,
How does this program compare to Max-OT (i’m debating to to use WS4SB or M-OT)?
Also for realtively weak people like myself how many “extra sets” should i do? I’d do the 3-5 RM and then perhaps a couple more sets of 5?[/quote]
A few years ago I was running a gym and decided to give MAX OT a go. I thought it was a good program for a few weeks but my body doesn’t really like lifting more than 4 days per week. 3-4 is where I respond best.
I’m a Westside disciple so my answer is obviously WSFSB. This is based on personal experience not one eyed support for WSFSB.
[quote]Pedo_Bear wrote:
But the thing about WS4SB is that there aren’t enough sets on the “main lift” you work up to a 5 rm and then you move on to supp exersises. I mean he does say you can do “back off” sets for high reps, but i’m not sure if you can do say two more heavy sets of 3-5 with risking burnout. Research has shown that single sets are not enough to give STR gains.
Do you think i could do say my 3-5 RM and then after do a couple more triples or sets of 5 on my ME lift each?
thanks.[/quote]
Sorry mate, didn’t you say you were weak? DeFranco seems to produce strong athletes, so he might know a little more than you.
Don’t take it personally, he’s got years in the game and a high score on the board.
[quote]Johnny Drama wrote:
Pedo_Bear wrote:
But the thing about WS4SB is that there aren’t enough sets on the “main lift” you work up to a 5 rm and then you move on to supp exersises. I mean he does say you can do “back off” sets for high reps, but i’m not sure if you can do say two more heavy sets of 3-5 with risking burnout. Research has shown that single sets are not enough to give STR gains.
Do you think i could do say my 3-5 RM and then after do a couple more triples or sets of 5 on my ME lift each?
thanks.
Sorry mate, didn’t you say you were weak? Defranco seems to produce strong athletes, so he might know a little more than you.
Don’t take it personally, he’s got years in the game and a high score on the board. [/quote]
I didn;t claim in any way that i know more than him… i’m jsut asking if it is ok (more ideal) to do a couple more heavy sets after the PR 3-5 rep set because research has shown that to gain STR one must use mutliple sets as opposed to a single “work-set”. Also in the WS articles you’ll notice that the writers often make a point that one must do at least 3 sets in the 90% range.
Yes, it is fine. “Building up” to a max set typically includes at least 3 sets within 90% of the max effort for that day. If you peark early, you accumulate more volume by doing some more heavy sets at the end.
[quote]Pedo_Bear wrote:
But the thing about WS4SB is that there aren’t enough sets on the “main lift” you work up to a 5 rm and then you move on to supp exersises. I mean he does say you can do “back off” sets for high reps, but i’m not sure if you can do say two more heavy sets of 3-5 with risking burnout. Research has shown that single sets are not enough to give STR gains.
Do you think i could do say my 3-5 RM and then after do a couple more triples or sets of 5 on my ME lift each?
thanks.[/quote]
Pedo- here is a passage right out of WSFSBIII.
Read it and put some thought into it. I think it will answer your question.
WSFSB does not limit you to 1 work set.
Here are Joe D’s words:
You’ll notice that I don’t list the number of warm-up sets
for your main lift on Max-Effort days or Repetition Upper
Body days. Instead, I use the term “work up.” This is
because the number of warm-up sets you’ll be performing
is determined by how strong you are! The stronger you
are, the more sets you’ll need to reach your max weight. I
favor multiple sets of low reps for warming up on Max-
Effort Day and just 1 or 2 sets of 6-8 reps before your first
exercise on Rep Upper Body Day.
Before you warm up with weights, however, you should
be performing a 5-15 minute general warm-up. Make sure
you have a light sweat going before getting under the bar.
Here’s an example of “working up” to a max set of 3 reps
in the box squat. Assuming the athlete�??s goal is to box
squat 315 lbs. for 3 reps, a sample warm-up would look
something like this:
95 X 5
135 X 5
185 X 3
225 X 3
275 X 3
295 X 3
315 X 3
It should be noted that these warm-up weights are not
engraved in stone! Some people like to take bigger jumps
and some prefer smaller. YOU must figure out what works
best for YOU! The one thing I will suggest is that if you are
a weak, skinny bastard, you must make
sure you’re performing at least 5 total
sets for your max-effort exercise.
For example, let’s say you’re going for
a 5RM in the box squat and your goal
is 185 lbs. Dont just do 95 X 5, 135 X 5
and 185 X 5. Skinny bastards need more
volume in order to grow, so make sure
you make smaller jumps in weight and
get more sets in before your main set.
[quote]Pedo_Bear wrote:
I didn;t claim in any way that i know more than him… i’m jsut asking if it is ok (more ideal) to do a couple more heavy sets after the PR 3-5 rep set because research has shown that to gain STR one must use mutliple sets as opposed to a single “work-set”. Also in the WS articles you’ll notice that the writers often make a point that one must do at least 3 sets in the 90% range.[/quote]
Sorry I didn’t read your first post correctly. I though you said you were a beginner.
Actually, I generally get 3 sets in on 3 reps and I never feel like I’m becomming fried from it due to the changing exercises every 3 weeks. As we’ve said all along, trial and error. Work out what works best for you. I think following the WSFSB template you will improve a lot more than on the Max OT program.
[quote]Johnny Drama wrote:
Pedo_Bear wrote:
I didn;t claim in any way that i know more than him… i’m jsut asking if it is ok (more ideal) to do a couple more heavy sets after the PR 3-5 rep set because research has shown that to gain STR one must use mutliple sets as opposed to a single “work-set”. Also in the WS articles you’ll notice that the writers often make a point that one must do at least 3 sets in the 90% range.
Sorry I didn’t read your first post correctly. I though you said you were a beginner.
Actually, I generally get 3 sets in on 3 reps and I never feel like I’m becomming fried from it due to the changing exercises every 3 weeks. As we’ve said all along, trial and error. Work out what works best for you. I think following the WSFSB template you will improve a lot more than on the Max OT program.[/quote]
So do you go for the 3rep PR and then do two more sets after with a little lighter load or do you do as listed by the other guy above and do “small jumps” to get two 3 rep sets that are within 90% and then go for PR.
Also how often do you guys take deload or back off weeks? Or do you think that deload is not needed since you’re changing the lifts every few weeks.
[quote]Pedo_Bear wrote:
So do you go for the 3rep PR and then do two more sets after with a little lighter load or do you do as listed by the other guy above and do “small jumps” to get two 3 rep sets that are within 90% and then go for PR.
[/quote]
Simply I do a few sets of 5 reps whilst upping the weight. Once I get to a weight that I can’t do 5 reps on I do sets of 3. I usually know where my 3rm is by feel and I stay on that weight for 2-3 sets. Nothing scientific, just simple really.
The deload week is not really needed with the change of ME exercises every 3 weeks. I totally go by feel. If I’m feeling a bit flat, I’ll ease the weights off for 1/2 a week or so. If I’m feeling fatigued it is usually due to the Lower ME Exercise. Often I will just change it up and do some speed work like in the traditional Westside template.
The bottom line is for me, I go on how I feel in the program and it is working so I can’t fault it. Give it a go and you’ll reap the benefits.
Here’s the latest ask Joe. (And giving this thread a bump).
Hi guys,
I want to tweak the WS4SB slightly… i wanna have a day off before my ME lower day instead of having RE upper followed by ME lower. What would be the best way to do this?
add that day off… no problem. get the 4 workouts in every 7-10 days days.
LA
Do you guys think that there is any problem with doing RE upper and DE lower on the same day (with RE upper somewhat abbreviated)? For example i’d cut out the bicep curls and tricep extenstions from RE uper but keep everything else the same.
Also do i have to do supersets on the RE upper and ME upper days? can i just keep the exersises seperate? (i don’t like supersets).
Also i notice that for the 3rd version b/c there is 4 workouts/week he doesn’t list any options for conditioning (unlike for the 2nd version). Would it be ok to do conditioning on the off days with thje 4 day temlate (ie runnign, skipping, etc) without risking overtraining?
[quote]Pedo_Bear wrote:
Hi guys,
I want to tweak the WS4SB slightly… i wanna have a day off before my ME lower day instead of having RE upper followed by ME lower. What would be the best way to do this?[/quote]
I currently lift…
Monday: ME Upper
Wednesday: ME Lower
Friday: RE: Upper.
I do my running and etc on the off weight days. I’m getting stronger both upper and lower by the week and only doing 3 lifting days. So you shouldn’t have any problems.
[quote]Johnny Drama wrote:
Pedo_Bear wrote:
Hi guys,
I want to tweak the WS4SB slightly… i wanna have a day off before my ME lower day instead of having RE upper followed by ME lower. What would be the best way to do this?
I currently lift…
Monday: ME Upper
Wednesday: ME Lower
Friday: RE: Upper.
I do my running and etc on the off weight days. I’m getting stronger both upper and lower by the week and only doing 3 lifting days. So you shouldn’t have any problems. [/quote]
So you think its better to only do one lower body day/week? as opposed to two like in ws4sb3?
[quote]Pedo_Bear wrote:
Johnny Drama wrote:
Pedo_Bear wrote:
Hi guys,
I want to tweak the WS4SB slightly… i wanna have a day off before my ME lower day instead of having RE upper followed by ME lower. What would be the best way to do this?
I currently lift…
Monday: ME Upper
Wednesday: ME Lower
Friday: RE: Upper.
I do my running and etc on the off weight days. I’m getting stronger both upper and lower by the week and only doing 3 lifting days. So you shouldn’t have any problems.
So you think its better to only do one lower body day/week? as opposed to two like in ws4sb3?
[/quote]
Actually I am completing the Strength & Speed template in WSFSB3 found of pages 12, 13 & 14. You will notice only one lower body day in the gym. The work on the track and 2 lower sessions would be too much.
[quote]Johnny Drama wrote:
Pedo_Bear wrote:
Johnny Drama wrote:
Pedo_Bear wrote:
Hi guys,
I want to tweak the WS4SB slightly… i wanna have a day off before my ME lower day instead of having RE upper followed by ME lower. What would be the best way to do this?
I currently lift…
Monday: ME Upper
Wednesday: ME Lower
Friday: RE: Upper.
I do my running and etc on the off weight days. I’m getting stronger both upper and lower by the week and only doing 3 lifting days. So you shouldn’t have any problems.
So you think its better to only do one lower body day/week? as opposed to two like in ws4sb3?
Actually I am completing the Strength & Speed template in WSFSB3 found of pages 12, 13 & 14. You will notice only one lower body day in the gym. The work on the track and 2 lower sessions would be too much.
[/quote]
What if i’m not doing any speed work at the moment? I’m just doing general coniditioning (tempo running, cardio etc) no high cns speed work? could i do two lower days or would the condiitoning still make it to be too much?
[quote]Pedo_Bear wrote:
What if i’m not doing any speed work at the moment? I’m just doing general coniditioning (tempo running, cardio etc) no high cns speed work? could i do two lower days or would the condiitoning still make it to be too much?[/quote]
You should be fine. Go for it. If you start to feel like you’re doing too much, maybe then scale it back to 1 session a week.
hi guys,
I’m jsut wondering if its more ideal to do RE exersises that aren’t directly related to the ME exersises:
Ie say the ME is flat bench. Would it be better to do a pulling RE exersise such as pullups on RE day as opposed to db presses or does it not really matter?