Wow.

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
1

Uhm… whaaa??

12/14/05:

BUSH: I said I made the right decision. Knowing what I know today, I would have still made that decision.

HUME: So, if you had had this ? if the weapons had been out of the equation because the intelligence did not conclude that he had them, it was still the right call?

BUSH: Absolutely.

3/19/03:

Bush: Our nation enters this conflict reluctantly ? yet, our purpose is sure. The people of the United States and our friends and allies will not live at the mercy of an outlaw regime that threatens the peace with weapons of mass murder.

Link: http://streaming.americanprogress.org/ThinkProgress/2005/invasion.320.240.mov.htm

2

yeah bush administration lied about the weaponds of mass destruction. they tried to do everything they can to get into iraq and they did. and now what are our soldiers fighting for? you tell me. what about osama? just leave him and forget about it? good call bush

3

I have to say, for better or worse, the one quality I appreciate in Bush is his steadfast determination. He has not wavered once in his decision to invade Iraq. It is a blessing and a curse that he continues to stick to his guns, but I can admire him for this.

4

[quote]slimjim wrote:
I have to say, for better or worse, the one quality I appreciate in Bush is his steadfast determination. He has not wavered once in his decision to invade Iraq. It is a blessing and a curse that he continues to stick to his guns, but I can admire him for this. [/quote]

Benjamin Franklin: The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

I don’t think that is something to admire.

5

[quote]DB297 wrote:
slimjim wrote:
I have to say, for better or worse, the one quality I appreciate in Bush is his steadfast determination. He has not wavered once in his decision to invade Iraq. It is a blessing and a curse that he continues to stick to his guns, but I can admire him for this.

Benjamin Franklin: The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

I don’t think that is something to admire.
[/quote]

What different results has he expected? Bush has said from the get-go that this would be a long, difficult battle, Iraq is but a part of the GWOT.

I think it is equally insane for the ABB crowd to keep trying to paint Bush as crazy, or a pathological liar. But I guess respecting someone with the balls to stand firm in the face of his haters is just a little difficult for the spineless pussies that have no alternative.

6

[quote]rainjack wrote:
DB297 wrote:
slimjim wrote:
I have to say, for better or worse, the one quality I appreciate in Bush is his steadfast determination. He has not wavered once in his decision to invade Iraq. It is a blessing and a curse that he continues to stick to his guns, but I can admire him for this.

Benjamin Franklin: The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

I don’t think that is something to admire.

What different results has he expected? Bush has said from the get-go that this would be a long, difficult battle, Iraq is but a part of the GWOT.

I think it is equally insane for the ABB crowd to keep trying to paint Bush as crazy, or a pathological liar. But I guess respecting someone with the balls to stand firm in the face of his haters is just a little difficult for the spineless pussies that have no alternative. [/quote]

I’m not trying to paint him as a liar or crazy, just dumb.
I also think he would show more balls if he would stand up and say “I fucked up.” I’ll even go so far as to say a lot of people on the left should do the same.

Oh and regarding saying from the start this would be long and difficult I somewhat remember him saying the war was over while on an aircraft carrier a few years ago.

7

[quote]DB297 wrote:
I’m not trying to paint him as a liar or crazy, just dumb. [/quote]

You used a Ben Franklin definition of insane in your post, and you don’t think he is crazy? Then why use the quote? And I asked you to show even one instance of Bush expecting a different result. I’m still waiting.

[quote]
I also think he would show more balls if he would stand up and say “I fucked up.” I’ll even go so far as to say a lot of people on the left should do the same.[/quote]

When was the last time you listened to the news? He admitted that he was wrong about WMD’s not even 60 days ago. You want him to admit that the entire Iraq war was a mistake? He shouldn’t do that because it wasn’t a mistake.

[quote]
Oh and regarding saying from the start this would be long and difficult I somewhat remember him saying the war was over while on an aircraft carrier a few years ago. [/quote]

How may times are the ABBers going to use that tired old lie? He was referring to the end of hostilities between iraq and the coalition. That means that he was declaring victory over the regime that was in control of Iraq - not the entire war. You really need to try to use something besides the tired old talking points.

8

[quote]rainjack wrote:

When was the last time you listened to the news? He admitted that he was wrong about WMD’s not even 60 days ago. [/quote]

Please. On that one fact, he took over 5 years to finally admit that and it was “conveniently” around the same time his approval rating had dropped to levels so low that you could flash freeze the entire city of Washington DC if that number had been a temperature. You, and many others, give this man way too much credit, and for what?

9

Well if it wasnt the wrong thing to do then he went about it wrong.

The right way to do this would be to go muster up support with the other arab states to see what they had to say about us going in. They were there with us during Gulf Storm, so why not now? RJ , anybody?

10

He actually lost support from Turkey right before going in. That was half of their battle, and that completely threw off their plans, and gave a place for people to go, regroup, and connect with Al-Qaeda.

I will say Bush should have been more aggressive then he was, and not ran a PC kind of war.

Now on to what everyone else said:

First - again quit with the lie crap. If you say he lied, that makes you a liar unless you can prove it. (Do I need to once again point out what is necessary to prove he lied, and the actual proof that he didn’t?) No more hypocrisy, or just believing the bs just because you hate Bush.

Second, it hasn’t been 5 years since he made the speech, or went to war with Iraq. He hasn’t even been president that long. (5 years ago Clinton was still president. We are still 18 days away from his 5 year Anniversary.)

Please if anyone has a legitimate reason for being against the war, speak up. I actually do believe there are legitimate reasons to be against this war, or against war in general. But nobody wants to talk about this stuff and instead they just focus on gossip, rumors, innuendo, (say it slowly and you end up with a Spanish porn movie,) lies, myths, and propaganda.

Really I believe that about 80% of the people who are against the Iraq conflict would have been for it if Gore did it. (And about 20 to 25% of the people for it would be against it.) You cannot decide whether you like a presidents decisions and policies based solely on what party they belong to.

11

[quote]The Mage wrote:
Second, it hasn’t been 5 years since he made the speech, or went to war with Iraq. He hasn’t even been president that long. (5 years ago Clinton was still president. We are still 18 days away from his 5 year Anniversary.[/quote]

WTF? So I was supposed to write, “it has been 4 years and 347.25 days and he just recently admitted it”? Does that make it any fucking better? The guy is the most arrogant president we have had in a very long time.

12

[quote]Professor X wrote:
The guy is the most arrogant president we have had in a very long time. [/quote]

I guess that depends on what your definition of is, is.

13

[quote]The Mage wrote:
I will say Bush should have been more aggressive then he was, and not ran a PC kind of war.
[/quote]

I have been sayiong this since the war started. If anything has been “wrong” about this war it is precisely that we didn’t go over there and exterminate the threat with extreme prejudice.

14

[quote]doogie wrote:
Professor X wrote:
The guy is the most arrogant president we have had in a very long time.

I guess that depends on what your definition of is, is.
[/quote]

No, if Clinton were that steadfast and arrogant, he would have simply said that God told him to screw a fat intern. The bible belt would have forgiven him and that would have been the end of it.

15

[quote]Professor X wrote:

WTF? So I was supposed to write, “it has been 4 years and 347.25 days and he just recently admitted it”? Does that make it any fucking better? The guy is the most arrogant president we have had in a very long time. [/quote]

Most arrogant President? I think the prior administration was a hell of a lot more arrogant.

Anyway even your most recent time frame doesn’t make sense either. It wasn’t 2001, nor was it even 2002 when we went to war in Iraq. You act as though it was longer then it was by years, not days.

You also do not take into account any of the time where they were still looking for the shit. You basically blew up 2 years into 5.

And no I do not expect you to accept that. If they found WMD’s tomorrow you wouldn’t accept that. If they found Osama in Iraq you wouldn’t accept that either. (That’s not Osama, just some guy they found who looks like him.)

Oh yeah, one more thing. You also do not care that one of the inspectors, while saying he found little (again some small amounts found,) said that the programs were still in place, ready to go at a moments notice, and much worse, and much further along then anyone thought. (Paraphrased of course.) He pretty much said he couldn’t believe how extensive the programs were, and said we dodged a bullet.

If nothing else I think that is enough to satisfy me.

16

[quote]Professor X wrote:

No, if Clinton were that steadfast and arrogant, he would have simply said that God told him to screw a fat intern. The bible belt would have forgiven him and that would have been the end of it.
[/quote]

You still believe that tabloid news about Bush supposedly saying God told him to invade Iraq? Not credible at all.

17

[quote]The Mage wrote:
Professor X wrote:

WTF? So I was supposed to write, “it has been 4 years and 347.25 days and he just recently admitted it”? Does that make it any fucking better? The guy is the most arrogant president we have had in a very long time.

Most arrogant President? I think the prior administration was a hell of a lot more arrogant.

Anyway even your most recent time frame doesn’t make sense either. It wasn’t 2001, nor was it even 2002 when we went to war in Iraq. You act as though it was longer then it was by years, not days.

You also do not take into account any of the time where they were still looking for the shit. You basically blew up 2 years into 5.

And no I do not expect you to accept that. If they found WMD’s tomorrow you wouldn’t accept that. If they found Osama in Iraq you wouldn’t accept that either. (That’s not Osama, just some guy they found who looks like him.)

Oh yeah, one more thing. You also do not care that one of the inspectors, while saying he found little (again some small amounts found,) said that the programs were still in place, ready to go at a moments notice, and much worse, and much further along then anyone thought. (Paraphrased of course.) He pretty much said he couldn’t believe how extensive the programs were, and said we dodged a bullet.

If nothing else I think that is enough to satisfy me.[/quote]

What are you smoking? If they found WMD’s tomorrow, it would change everything. The fact that we didn’t find what we were told was DEFINITELY there is why there is an issue. Also, I can not believe you are arguing with me about exactly how many YEARS it took for him to finally admit that this was was initiated with false intel. The fact that it took YEARS at all is pathetic. No one is backing up your story officially as far as them being weapon ready to that degree. From the documents I have seen, they basically found what would be equal what one would find upon raiding one our own major hospital facilities in terms of “research and pathogens”.

I have written just recently what I would have changed in that position in another thread. It shouldn’t be hard to find.

18

[quote]The Mage wrote:
Professor X wrote:

No, if Clinton were that steadfast and arrogant, he would have simply said that God told him to screw a fat intern. The bible belt would have forgiven him and that would have been the end of it.

You still believe that tabloid news about Bush supposedly saying God told him to invade Iraq? Not credible at all.[/quote]

That has nothing to do with what I wrote. Much of his campaign is in “Christian morals”, regardless of how hypocritical it seems at times.

19

[quote]Professor X wrote:
No, if Clinton were that steadfast and arrogant, he would have simply said that God told him to screw a fat intern. The bible belt would have forgiven him and that would have been the end of it.
[/quote]

“Boy Clinton”, and “Final Days” are a coulple of good reads if you want to know how truly arogant that fuck was.

20

But you are completely ignoring that fact that other governments, including Putin himself told Bush that Saddam had WMD’s. There is also the possibility that he did in fact have them, and actually got rid of them right before we went in.

Are you blaming Putin? Or the other governments who told us? Or just Bush? That is the problem here.

If you say it is ok to take Saddam out if he actually had WMD’s, why shouldn’t Bush have acted when everyone in the world was telling him the stuff was there?

This argument is actually about the fact that Bush didn’t have psychic powers.

If WMD’s are found tomorrow, I expect a large group of people to say to themselves, “Damn, what else can we get him on now?” And another large group to come up with some conspiracy theory like they were planted, or we gave them to him, or it was actually aspirin.