Lets take the spartan approach and weed out the trash.
The kid who just bubbles in the answers without reading the question is automatically sentenced to death unless said bubbling is due to lack of time. In which case if said student cannot complete a second test in time with passing grade he or she may be executed on the spot and made an example of.
Oh and all the kids who can’t come up with an original thought or who can’t read a book to save their life yet pride themselves on it. Lets get rid of them too.
Well I thought about what I wrote before I hit submit. I change all my responses… leave the stupid people the hell alone. I need them to work for me for minimum wage one day. I understand you as a teacher have to put up with it but thats your job. There’s always a disciplinary system (which my teachers were afraid to use) and if it was ever used properly this shit wouldnt happen or these kids would be out of the school before the end of highschool.
[quote]TKOWKD1 wrote:
Ever notice that when the female teachers get busted for screwing their male students it’s only the boys mother crying ‘Wha, wha, my poor baby’. How come the boy or his father never appear in public? Probably because they’re busy high fiveing and drinking beers. No self respecting father nor son will ever be crying or complaining, f’yeah.
To be young again…
[/quote]
Unless the female teacher is a beast. Then it’s like, “…dude…”
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
I see you were dicking around when reading comprehension was covered. Or maybe you don’t know the meaning of the word ‘starting’.
Maybe you’re one of my former students…see original post.
[/quote]
Actually, I graduated in the Top 10% of my class; with little help from jaded teachers like yourself. In fact, there were only 4 teachers that made a positive impact on my development throughout my 16 years of education.
Most of them were, and still are, vacuous bags of wind - full of shit to be frank. Shocking huh?
Regardless, listening to teachers piss and moan is getting old. You don’t like it? Fucking retire. I would gather to say that your pension is fully vested after 28 years.
I’m sure there is a young man or woman out there who is passionate about teaching that would gladly take your place.
Those who can - do.
Those who can’t - teach.
Both of my parents were teachers. They do get paid more the longer they work so someone working over 20 years is no doubt pulling in twice or more what a new teacher is making.
On one hand, I do agree that teachers don’t get enough respect or income. I think the standards should be higher in school to weed out the millions taking education as a major simply because it isn’t that hard.
I knew so many retards with an education major in college that I would be scared to send my kids to a public school if I had any.
Also, most teachers are at home right now watching Jerry Springer re-runs and gardening while rest of us are at work playing on the computer.
The situation just isn’t that black and white on either side.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
jnnak wrote:
Sure I’d take the job for only having to work 180 or so days a year.
Okay…do you remember your hs experience? Now look at it from the teacher’s vantage point: Take 5 classes, each with 30 students. Usually about 3 have an IQ above room temperature.
Teach them, teach. Go for it.
[/quote]
So let’s take 5 classes for per your example. I think in highschool my classes were around 50 minutes each give or take. So on an average work day, you spend just a little more than 4 hours with your “clients”. Regardless of any of this or any other details, You don’t go into a teaching career for money just like you don’t become a firefighter so you can drive around a Porsche, so why bitch about it?
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
rsg wrote:
HH, you could go teach at a private school? You do get private schools in the states, right?
That being said, I would not go into debt for a job. I’d find a job I like doing, that pays well, and stick with it.
Also, along with teachers, I think the police, firefighters and any of the life-risking jobs pay way too little.
Most people come out of college here with a debt load of at least 50 or 60 thousand dollars. That’s if they went to a typical public university. Of course, there are exceptions and a lot of people work their way through school.
But I contend that it is irrational to expect people to go into debt like that, for a job that pays low, is very demanding in terms of pure hours worked and discipline problems, with no advancement (unless you leave the classroom). We’ve seen a dramatic fall off in quality of teachers, with the profession becoming equivalent to a K Mart clerk position.
Unions, confrontational administrations, being watched all the time like some assembly line worker,…it just fucking sucks.
[/quote]
Plenty of people still do go into teaching despite your gloomy assessment. Lets face it, society doesn’t need its best and brightest teaching the third grade. It needs its brightest in science, engineering, management, etc. Brighter folks can be justified for the University level because the material is more difficult and the least capable or willing of the students have been removed from the pool by this point.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Also, most teachers are at home right now watching Jerry Springer re-runs and gardening while rest of us are at work playing on the computer.
[/quote]
At work, playing on the computer is absolutely correct.
Hehe
etaco makes a very good point. Note that you still wouldn’t see this till Junior or Senior year of college because the first two years are highschool part 2, but thats for another discussion.
Honestly staying one lesson ahead of the class is suffiecent enough all the way through highschool. Some of the teachers will have a great concept of what they teach but in the end the great students will be able to take the genral knowledge they obtain and furthur it by themselves. I mean in reality thats how we learned everything in the first place.
I know both my posts have been off the pay topic but honestly, you pick your profession based on 3 options. 1. you love your job/low pay 2. You like your job/medium pay 3. You hate your job/high or low pay. Well at least thats how it has been for me in regards to school. I’m somewhere between option 2 and 3
Only thing I’d ever be willing to teach would be upper level college courses. At least most of your students would want to be there and willing to learn.
On a funnier/gloomer note:
My mom teaches 5th or 6th grade (switches each year) at an inner city school in Kansas City. She’s thrilled when kids call her a “Nigger” in their notes that they spell it with two “g’s” and not one. She really hates being called a river in Africa for some reason.
I was in 11th grade last year and we had so many fucking assholes who I wanted to beat with a baseball bat… I wouldnt need one unless it was 10 on 1 and they had knives but I would still use one.
Most of the teachers are very nice and alot of people have such bad attitudes… they think they’re the boss and the teacher can fuck themself… we have one teacher who is gay and he writes on the chalkboard and looks at the class at the same time because people would throw things at him…in 11th grade… hes a really nice guy and hes cool… the last day of class we went to the gym to play basketball and he SCHOOLED so many of the “good players” he was so funny to watch he was sinking field goals every couple of seconds
[quote]RageInspired wrote:
I know both my posts have been off the pay topic but honestly, you pick your profession based on 3 options. 1. you love your job/low pay 2. You like your job/medium pay 3. You hate your job/high or low pay. Well at least thats how it has been for me in regards to school. I’m somewhere between option 2 and 3 [/quote]
That would suck if it were true across the board. There is an option #4, ie. You like your job and get paid enough to be happy about your paycheck.
do not forget that you need to add a healthy dose of parenting in there as many parents want to be friends with their kids.
[quote]etaco wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
rsg wrote:
HH, you could go teach at a private school? You do get private schools in the states, right?
That being said, I would not go into debt for a job. I’d find a job I like doing, that pays well, and stick with it.
Also, along with teachers, I think the police, firefighters and any of the life-risking jobs pay way too little.
Most people come out of college here with a debt load of at least 50 or 60 thousand dollars. That’s if they went to a typical public university. Of course, there are exceptions and a lot of people work their way through school.
But I contend that it is irrational to expect people to go into debt like that, for a job that pays low, is very demanding in terms of pure hours worked and discipline problems, with no advancement (unless you leave the classroom). We’ve seen a dramatic fall off in quality of teachers, with the profession becoming equivalent to a K Mart clerk position.
Unions, confrontational administrations, being watched all the time like some assembly line worker,…it just fucking sucks.
Plenty of people still do go into teaching despite your gloomy assessment. Lets face it, society doesn’t need its best and brightest teaching the third grade. It needs its brightest in science, engineering, management, etc. Brighter folks can be justified for the University level because the material is more difficult and the least capable or willing of the students have been removed from the pool by this point. [/quote]
Most teachers here have a BSc or BA in whatever their major entails, plus a 2 year education degree. This is actually the EASIEST route to becoming a teacher, since the GPA requirements are the same for everyone in the science of arts faculty.
Ironically, the hardest route to get into is the bachelor of education degree. It is 4 years long, and the 1st year you have to do a pre-professional year of general university study. So far the lowest GPA to get in has been 2.8 for math/physics, and the highest is 3.6 for phys ed. What you are left with in the Ed degree program is a lot of bright people. I don’t know how it is in the states, but maybe they can learn from this.
With regard to going into debt to teach: there are quite a few more rural districts near me that offer debt relief in addition to competitive salaries for teachers. Every year they teach they get a portion of their debt paid off.
As with many things, proper investigation of the available options yields significantly better results than just taking whatever comes along or looks good at first glance.
If people here don’t think there are a lot of students going into debt to become teachers in the US, you’re nuts. Sure there are options, but HH point stands, teaching is a low-pay, high-stress job that doesn’t attract a lot of quality people.
The system is fucked. I recall a professor of mine who wanted to teach in the local inner-city school system. They would only admit her on some sort of temporary permit while she got her teachers certification, would pay her about 30K, and wouldn’t give her any benefits at all. She simply couldn’t make the ends meet, so she took a job teaching at (arguably) the best university in the state for a hell of a lot more money and benefits. When the system chases off quality people who want to donate their time in favor of the POS that graduate with teaching degrees, we’re in some serious trouble (I know this is not everyone, but anyone who has met a lot of ed majors knows there’s a lot of poor quality people going into that field).
A lot of schools are crumbling. Drop out rates around 50% for Blacks and Hispanics. And almost 1% of the population in or having done prison time. We’re creating (have created) a permanent lower class. It’s scary.
BTW, I don’t think privatization is the answer. Allowing some schools to privatize would probably work, but privatizing the whole system simply won’t. Education is too much of a public good with too many positive externalities for the private sector to function properly.
I am a big proponent of “choice” however. Although not the way some portray “choice” right now. But the general idea that a mother who actually gives a damn about her kid’s education should be able to choose the school that that child attends is a good one I think.
I might catch some flack for this, but I think “no child left behind” was a decent step, but didn’t go far enough. It’s insistence on standardized tests as the measure of progress simply shouldn’t be. However, the idea of being able to hold failing schools accountable is a good one I think. Especially if we can work out a way to fire administrators. We need to push a hell of a lot further.
Oh, and you want better quality teachers in the classroom? Pay them more. Period. Money will attract more people and allow more selectivity. And maybe we won’t have so many good teachers getting completely burned out and leaving within 3 years.
If you take teaching seriously, have a passion for it, and don’t have a god complex, I think that is one of the most noble occupations a person can have.
That being said, I can remember one whole teacher that I had in high school that I thought genuinely gave a shit about any of his students.
And honestly, if teachers simply get paid more the longer they teach, that is bullshit. I had an English teacher in 9th grade that had to have been legally insane. I got sent to the principal’s office for calling her a “fucking whore”. What she failed to realize was that I had her for class first semester, and this happened in April. On top of that the principal chewed my ass because he said I lied to him about having her last semester(look at my fucking schedule dumbass!). My semester in her class also consisted of watching The Outsiders about 20 times and writing essays about our chairs having feelings.(I can’t even make this crap up) If she was making $80k/year, I’m going to jump off a cliff.
[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
Oh, and you want better quality teachers in the classroom? Pay them more. Period. Money will attract more people and allow more selectivity. And maybe we won’t have so many good teachers getting completely burned out and leaving within 3 years. [/quote]
I’m willing to pay more for teachers when we simultaneously agree to fire the crappy ones.
I think the biggest problem is education getting hamstrung by shitty parents.
[quote]nephorm wrote:
I’m willing to pay more for teachers when we simultaneously agree to fire the crappy ones.[/quote]
Nursing suffers from the same problem. It is not that we want crappy teachers in the class room but we have run out of people willing to tolerate the situation as it stands. Therefore we are throwing warm bodies in classrooms to make sure kids are chaperoned at least.
The 80/20 rule applies to every profession there is. 80% of the work is done by 20% of the people. It is usually reflected in quality too. I had great teachers and I would thank every single one. I may not have liked them and they may have been full of shit but I learned that life is a lot like that.
Privatization could be part of the answer but I live in NYC where kindergarden can run over 15K a year. I wish I was making that up but I am not.
We are created a permanent lower class and it is not by chance. It is by design.