Worst Parenting... Ever

[TheBodyGuard]

[quote]Guilty77 wrote:

If you think what is in that video is child abuse, then you literally have no understanding of kids, parenting, abuse, or your own dick.
Holding hot sauce or chilis in your mouth for lying or swearing is an old Mexican punishment that has been around for years. It’s not unique, rare, or harsh. Soap in the mouth is much worse.
How spoiled have you been to think a cold shower is abusive? We took cold showers growing up because we had no hot water. Apparently most kids who grew up with more than one sibling and only one shower are now victims of abuse.
When you call stuff like this abuse you do a disservice to actual victims of abuse. Now everyone is paying attention to this “monster” who yells at her kid and makes him take a cold shower, yet you forget about kids who are actually getting the shit kicked out of them.
My mom raised my adoptive brother who had a serious lying problem and was all around one of the most difficult cases my state has seen (they told us this). When my mom saw the Dr. Phil segment her response to all the hate was “Clearly these people have never raised kids. The only problem with it is it isn’t working.”[/quote]

Another tortured exercise in fucked up logic above.

Your argument and others like it amounts to, “there is worse, so this is not bad”.
Who gives a fuck what Mexicans do? Have you considered the country? I’m sorry, I won’t be taking any advice about how to do anything from Mexico. Thank you very much.
You took cold showers? Whooptie fucking dooo. You don’t recognize the difference between bracing yourself to take one and having a chance to deal with it as opposed to being a small child and thrown into one?

And now the last bit of hyperbole and exaggeration from you was precious…we are doing a disservice to “real abuse victims”. Again, this faulty “there is worse” logic, so this is okay. I guess that’s kind of like telling a sexual abuse victim that “he just finger fucked you and touched your tits, if want to know about REAL abuse, wait until you’re gang raped in all your orifices and beaten and left for dead - now THAT’S abuse”.

This video should be taken as a whole, not cherry picked apart so you can nullify the entirety of it. First, this kid is adopted. Now I don’t know how she acts otherwise, but I couldn’t help but to feel like he was the red headed step child. We’ve all had troubling moments as parents, but I just got a feel that this was not her natural child. There was the yelling, brow beating, to a kid that was already wilted and terrified, and she kept at it, relentlessly, BULLYING HIM.

Then came the hot sauce. Debate that as long as you like, but this was her ritual, and to say the least, your fucking Mexican Child Psychologists aside, it’s a bit unorthodox. And then, we FORCE (unlike your cold showers) the terrified year old into a cold shower. This was not the first time. And obviously, this “unorthodox” method of parenting was not working, yet it was repeated. AND IT WAS DONE WITH UNADULTERATED ANGER. The mother admitted to being “out of control”, and THAT’S why she went on the show, among other reasons.

Take any of the foregoing on its own, and you can defend it. Hot sauce? Unorthodox but bleh, I’ve seen worse, big deal. It’s not abuse. Cold shower? Psshah, I took those as a kid when my drunk old man didn’t pay the electric bill. Yelled at? LOL my mom was a screamer like you wouldn’t believe, and I’m okay. Adopted and quite possibly abandoned by your own? Nothing dude, I grew up with wild dogs, and I would have been just happy to have somewhere warm to sleep and human food to eat. She was angry? We all have bad days as parents.

NO sir, we cannot cherry pick it apart. It was:

The punishment was unorthodox by any reasonable standard.
It was not the first time, it was a standard punishment.
The punishment did not elicit the desired behavior.
She performed it with anger.
She was admittedly “out of control”.
He’s adopted.
She was a bully the entire time.
He was terrified.

Since you’re the resident expert on abuse, you do realize that abuse can be emotional. You do don’t you? Now, I’m not ready to pass judgment on whether what she did constituted abuse per se, but I’m confident enough to judge it extremely troubling. And even more troubling given the kid is adopted. I want to see her do this to her natural children and then maybe I’ll cut her some slack.

Is there any reasonable doubt in your mind that, although this kid might have some serious issues (big fucking surprise, he’s adopted from Russia - no picnic over there), that she may be a bit prone to treat this kid differently from her natural children? Might be a bit less patient? Is that a stretch?

Anyway, “reasonable minds” can differ. Fair enough. But the logic you employ to make your argument is just flawed.

[TheBodyGuard]

[quote]Guilty77 wrote:

You raise no arguement i should not even be commenting on this[/quote]
By your definition of argument, no one is making one, including you. We are all merely making claims. There is nothing abusive about what she did. Those methods are very widespread and common. NOT abuse.[/quote]

Well, since we’re making “claims” in your words, the above is the most fucking ridiculous claim I’ve seen in this entire thread and there have been a few ridiculous claims. Widespread and common? In what fucking country? Widespread and common, that a whole audience was brought to tears, that the reaction on the internet is overwhelmingly and virulently opposed to this “widespread and common” form of punishment.

[SteelyD]

[quote]Guilty77 wrote:
Those methods are very widespread and common.[/quote]

Really? Is that what you do to your kids? I mean, you have kids, right?

[SteelyD]

When Jessica gets frustrated, I see her having a shorter temper. Kristoff has not reacted to much of our discipline, he says.

Yet.We.Keep.Doing.It.Over.And.Over.Again…

Say what?

Kristoff has not reacted to much of our discipline, he says.

Saaay what?

[quote]“Let me tell you, I would lie 100 out of 100 times. You are teaching him to lie,” Dr. Phil points out. “Based on results, what youâ??re doing isnâ??t working.”

“So tell me what will,” Jessica says. “I will be happy to abandon all of that.”[/quote]

Say what? A pattern?

Hint: Behavior modification-- she’s doing it wrong.

Kristoff has not reacted to much of our discipline, he says.

So.Do.It.Again…

Kristoff has not reacted to much of our discipline, he says.

“Based on results, what youâ??re doing isnâ??t working.”

Again:

Kristoff has not reacted to much of our discipline, he says.

“Based on results, what youâ??re doing isnâ??t working.”

Again:

Kristoff has not reacted to much of our discipline, he says.

“Based on results, what youâ??re doing isnâ??t working.”

Again:

Kristoff has not reacted to much of our discipline, he says.

“Based on results, what youâ??re doing isnâ??t working.”

“So tell me what will,” Jessica says. [b]“I will be happy to abandon all of that.”

At face value, hot sauce treatment is not the end of the world… Repeated or regular practice of it when.it.doesn’t.work is abnormal. At the VERY minimum it’s a sign that this woman is a little slow to detect that it.doesn’t.work.

Say what?

Kristoff has not reacted to much of our discipline, he says.

“Based on results, what youâ??re doing isnâ??t working.”

Say what?

Kristoff has not reacted to much of our discipline, he says.

“Based on results, what youâ??re doing isnâ??t working.”

[SteelyD]

What I’m getting from the folks defending this woman’s inability to figure out that her ‘methods’ aren’t working is that if something DOESN’T WORK in a situation, KEEP DOING IT.

This is really the point of it all. It’s not the ‘shock’ of hot sauce and cold showers, it’s the fact that in this case, IT DOESN’T WORK, YET SHE KEEPS DOING IT.

“Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”

• Einstein

Are we getting the pattern yet?

[Guilty77]

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]Guilty77 wrote:
Those methods are very widespread and common.[/quote]

Really? Is that what you do to your kids? I mean, you have kids, right?
[/quote]
So you mean I have to have kids to know if something is widespread? If everyone I know gets spanked should I say “I don’t know if I should believe what I saw. I don’t have kids.”

Should I wait until I get a cold to realize it’s common or should I just ask all the sneezing people?

Like I already said, hot sauce in the mouth is a very common and very old disciplinary action in Mexican households. No, I don’t have kids, but when it has been used on my whole Mexican family and every Mexican I know has seen it or gotten it, that’s a pretty good indicator that it’s common. And it’s completely irrational to think that I need kids to know that.

And like I already said earlier, anyone who has grown up in a house with one shower and lots of people has taken plenty of cold showers and I doubt they consider themselves victims of abuse.

Your logic works both ways. If I see a father pinning his kid to the ground, holding a hot iron on his chest and bashing him in the face with it, should I not stop him and call it abuse because I don’t have kids, so my argument doesn’t count?

[SteelyD]

[quote]Guilty77 wrote:
So you mean I have to have kids to know …
[/quote]

Well, you quoted your genius mother who assumed that anyone who disagreed with this woman’s action must clearly have never raised kids (implying must not know any better) so it must be valid, right?

So, what is it?

[SteelyD]

[quote]Guilty77 wrote:
Your logic works both ways. If I see a father pinning his kid to the ground, holding a hot iron on his chest and bashing him in the face with it, should I not stop him and call it abuse because I don’t have kids, so my argument doesn’t count?[/quote]

Well, apparently for some the standard is “well, my parents and grandparents did it, so it MUST be OK”.

Yeah, well some folks got whipped with horse whips and lived just fine-- was that OK?

And again— it’s the fact that this family’s punishments are CLEARLY NOT WORKING YET THEY KEEP (KEPT?) DOING IT… Do.you.get.it.yet?

[Guilty77]

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
What I’m getting from the folks defending this woman’s inability to figure out that her ‘methods’ aren’t working is that if something DOESN’T WORK in a situation, KEEP DOING IT.

This is really the point of it all. It’s not the ‘shock’ of hot sauce and cold showers, it’s the fact that in this case, IT DOESN’T WORK, YET SHE KEEPS DOING IT.

“Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”

• Einstein

Are we getting the pattern yet?[/quote]
This and the previous statement I completely agree with. She had the freaking hot sauce on the bathroom counter for goodness’ sake, so this clearly happens all the time and he didn’t just get in trouble once in one day, it was three times. That shit is clearly not working.

I’m not defending her methods. I am against them because they clearly don’t work, but I can’t see how what she’s doing could be abusive.

And this is probably a weaker argument but, if it was abusive, then it probably would work. Abuse is pretty effective (however wrong), mainly because it’s very severe. So, he may frown when she puts hot sauce in his mouth and scream when he’s in a cold shower, but at the end of the day it’s clearly not bad enough to get him to stop, so it’s probably not that severe.

When I was four I had a habit of mooning people. Strangers, the neighbors, my family, whoever. Then one day my dad spanked me with a belt on the bare ass for mooning someone. I never mooned someone again until high school. I definitely would not call that abusive, but it was a severe enough deterrent to get me to stop.
And FWIW I didn’t have a mean dad who beat the shit out of me. That was the worst I ever got it and after every time I got spanked, my dad would always hold me as I cried and tell me how much he hated spanking me.

[SteelyD]

[quote]Guilty77 wrote:
Like I already said, hot sauce in the mouth is a very common and very old disciplinary action in Mexican households. No, I don’t have kids, but when it has been used on my whole Mexican family and every Mexican I know has seen it or gotten it, that’s a pretty good indicator that it’s common.
[/quote]

I worked on a family farm when I was younger. A lot of the Mexicans shit in the toilet then threw their shit wipes in the trash basket. Point?

A lot of Mexicans drive around in New Jersey with illegal PA license tags.

A lot of Mexicans are in this country illegally.

Why do I give a rat’s ass about 3rd world Mexican child rearing?

If Mexican hot sauce treatment was SO effective, then why is Mexico such a shit hole?

[SteelyD]

[quote]Guilty77 wrote:
And this is probably a weaker argument but, if it was abusive, then it probably would work. [/quote]

Dude, you really didn’t just type that, right?

Abuse is pretty effective (however wrong), mainly because it’s very severe. So, he may frown when she puts hot sauce in his mouth and scream when he’s in a cold shower, but at the end of the day it’s clearly not bad enough to get him to stop, so it’s probably not that severe.

Bzzzzt! No.

[Guilty77]

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]Guilty77 wrote:
Your logic works both ways. If I see a father pinning his kid to the ground, holding a hot iron on his chest and bashing him in the face with it, should I not stop him and call it abuse because I don’t have kids, so my argument doesn’t count?[/quote]

Well, apparently for some the standard is “well, my parents and grandparents did it, so it MUST be OK”.

Yeah, well some folks got whipped with horse whips and lived just fine-- was that OK?

And again— it’s the fact that this family’s punishments are CLEARLY NOT WORKING YET THEY KEEP (KEPT?) DOING IT… Do.you.get.it.yet?[/quote]
You are mixing a lot of arguments and jumping all over the place. My genius mother did not say “She can do whatever she wants, it’s her kid.” Read what she said. She said “It’s clearly not working.” You can think it’s not abuse and still think she’s doing the wrong thing. They’re not mutually exclusive.
I don’t know where that standard you spoke of came from. It doesn’t seem fair put someone’s standard on me and then argue against it. I have nothing to do with that standard.
No, horsewhips are not okay. My standard is not ‘if a lot of others got it, it’s fine’. No matter how many people get horsewhipped it will always fuck your shit up. Hot sauce will not. If it did, they wouldn’t sell it.
And yes I do get it. In my other post I said I absolutely agree.

Do you get what I am saying? The woman is not guilty of abuse. She has done nothing that is severe enough to warrant that title or the associated attitude. She is guilty of shitty parenting, shitty because it’s ineffective, yet she refuses to ditch it.

[Guilty77]

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]Guilty77 wrote:
Like I already said, hot sauce in the mouth is a very common and very old disciplinary action in Mexican households. No, I don’t have kids, but when it has been used on my whole Mexican family and every Mexican I know has seen it or gotten it, that’s a pretty good indicator that it’s common.
[/quote]

I worked on a family farm when I was younger. A lot of the Mexicans shit in the toilet then threw their shit wipes in the trash basket. Point?

A lot of Mexicans drive around in New Jersey with illegal PA license tags.

A lot of Mexicans are in this country illegally.

Why do I give a rat’s ass about 3rd world Mexican child rearing?

If Mexican hot sauce treatment was SO effective, then why is Mexico such a shit hole?[/quote]
Dude, you keep switching arguments and not sticking to what you said. You said (or more specifically implied) that I couldn’t know what a common punishment for children is because I don’t have children. Look at the very words that you quoted. It says nothing about “we should copy Mexico” or “they got it right”. All it does is very accurately rebut your claim that I need to have children to know what common punishments are. I don’t need to have children to know what common Mexican punishments are. All I have to do is ask Mexicans. That says nothing about effectiveness or what we should do.

[SteelyD]

[quote]Guilty77 wrote:
You are mixing a lot of arguments and jumping all over the place. My genius mother did not say “She can do whatever she wants, it’s her kid.” Read what she said. She said “It’s clearly not working.” You can think it’s not abuse and still think she’s doing the wrong thing. They’re not mutually exclusive.[/quote]

You wrote: [quote]When my mom saw the Dr. Phil segment her response to all the hate was “Clearly these people have never raised kids. The only problem with it is it isn’t working.”[/quote]

Clearly not the case of most here who aren’t defending this woman. As for the people in the audience, she wouldn’t know otherwise. I agree, it isn’t working.

I don’t know where that standard you spoke of came from. It doesn’t seem fair put someone’s standard on me and then argue against it. I have nothing to do with that standard.

Several posts in this thread argue that since they got XYZ from their parents and so-forth, those must all be OK (even though some admit they haven’t or won’t use method XYZ).

No, horsewhips are not okay.

Why? PX had to go pick his switch. (I had to go get the belt). A horsewhip is a big assed switch.

My standard is not ‘if a lot of others got it, it’s fine’.

Sure it is-- you just spent paragraphs describing how common and normal hot sauce is and has historically been, especially with Mexican families.

No matter how many people get horsewhipped it will always fuck your shit up. Hot sauce will not. If it did, they wouldn’t sell it.

Really? Do you mean “they” don’t sell shit that will fuck your shit up?

Let me say this-- I’m a bit of a hot food addict. Some of the best food years of my life were spent in grad school in New Mexico eating the hottest food I could find. This summer I ate the “Hellburger” in Denton, Texas (and won a TShirt). I wouldn’t wish that shit on a 5 year old. It’s one thing for me to put myself through hell for the hell of it, quite another to pour that shit (continuously) in a kids mouth (especially if it don’t fucking work).

And yes I do get it. In my other post I said I absolutely agree.

Awesome, I guess.

Do you get what I am saying? The woman is not guilty of abuse. She has done nothing that is severe enough to warrant that title or the associated attitude. She is guilty of shitty parenting, shitty because it’s ineffective, yet she refuses to ditch it.

I do get what you’re saying. And to some extent here, I agree with with your last paragraph. In fact, I gave a scenario where I might use hot sauce. I wouldn’t call DHS on this woman (some would). I would however tell her she’s a dumb, ignorant, fucking cunt if she keeps doing something to the kid that obviously DOESN’T work.

Again, I give parents a wide swath of understanding and everyone’s methods are different. Given that the woman CLEARLY STATED THAT HOT SAUCE AND COLD SHOWERS ARE REPEATEDLY USED BUT DO NOT WORK, then to continue is approaching abuse (Note: I didn’t say CRIMINAL).

She may intend well (and obviously she does), but we all know about good intentions.

[Guilty77]

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]Guilty77 wrote:
And this is probably a weaker argument but, if it was abusive, then it probably would work. [/quote]

Dude, you really didn’t just type that, right?

Abuse is pretty effective (however wrong), mainly because it’s very severe. So, he may frown when she puts hot sauce in his mouth and scream when he’s in a cold shower, but at the end of the day it’s clearly not bad enough to get him to stop, so it’s probably not that severe.

Bzzzzt! No.[/quote]
I did just type that. I don’t know anyone who thinks abuse should be illegal because it’s ineffective. It’s illegal because it’s fucking cruel. If a little kid is stealing cookies and you kick the shit out of him for stealing cookies, he probably won’t do it anymore. Why? Because getting the shit kicked out of you sucks. So, it’s really effective, but people who do it should be locked up because it’s despicable.
I’m not a parent, but I was a child once and I’ve been a teacher’s aide for 9 years. If a kid does something bad, he or she is reprimanded appropriately. Every time it has worked it was because the student (by their own admission) didn’t want to get in trouble again. In other words, they don’t like the punishment. If it didn’t work, we change the punishment until it does (definitely never abuse). That’s the very essence of punishment. The consequences of a bad action deter the child from acting that way again. So, kids think punishment is bad, they don’t do it anymore. If hot sauce boy continues to act in such a way and continues to receive the punishment, he clearly does not think it’s all that bad.

Steely, I know you’re a father and your experiences have been different than mine. I know you disagree with what I said above, too. I am honestly interested in what you have to say about it other than 'bzzzt. no." I’m not saying “Prove me wrong.” I honestly want to know (without the rhetoric) why you find that disagreeable. I’m not here to bicker or dick wave. It’s the internet. We don’t get points for winning. I just want a discussion for the sake of genuine knowledge.

[MHRhabdo]

If you dive deep into the video to truly understand what is happening, I believe the video tells it all.

The boy received a punishment at school for playing with Steve’s pencil. How obvious does this have to be? She was clearly trying to wash the ghey out of him with a dose of hot sauce and a cold shower.

You people are looking at the situation all wrong.

And on a serious note, you cannot judge others for things they have done due to not understanding the culture and social influences that have been placed upon them.

[SteelyD]

[quote]Guilty77 wrote:

I did just type that. I don’t know anyone who thinks abuse should be illegal because it’s ineffective. It’s illegal because it’s fucking cruel. If a little kid is stealing cookies and you kick the shit out of him for stealing cookies, he probably won’t do it anymore. Why? Because getting the shit kicked out of you sucks. So, it’s really effective, but people who do it should be locked up because it’s despicable.
[/quote]

I’ve typed several times that I agree that some kids in some cases need an ass whooping. If it works, then it works and you stop whooping their ass. If it doesn’t work, you don’t keep whooping their ass. THAT is abuse. It becomes ass whooping for the sake of ass whooping. It becomes habit.

[quote]If a kid does something bad, he or she is reprimanded appropriately. Every time it has worked it was because the student (by their own admission) didn’t want to get in trouble again. In other words, they don’t like the punishment. If it didn’t work, we change the punishment until it does (definitely never abuse). That’s the very essence of punishment.
[/quote]

I agree with this. This is reasonable.

I’m not here to bicker or dick wave.

Some are.

It’s the internet. We don’t get points for winning. I just want a discussion for the sake of genuine knowledge.

Yes, it the Internet. Take nothing personal. I don’t. I’ve already stated that I think folks here who aren’t parents yet will make fine parents. I usually get annoyed though when the childless start handing out ‘tidbits of wisdom’ based on nothing they’ve actually had to deal with with children. Yes, we were all children with the experience of being raised by someone and getting punished. However, walking the walk is a different experience and the perception of reality is from a different prism altogether.

[SteelyD]

[quote]MHRhabdo wrote:
The boy received a punishment at school for playing with Steve’s pencil. How obvious does this have to be? She was clearly trying to wash the ghey out of him with a dose of hot sauce and a cold shower.
[/quote]

In the transcript, she says they were sword fighting!!

Where is LGBT when you need them! Hot sauce does NOT burn out teh ghey!

[Guilty77]

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]Guilty77 wrote:
You are mixing a lot of arguments and jumping all over the place. My genius mother did not say “She can do whatever she wants, it’s her kid.” Read what she said. She said “It’s clearly not working.” You can think it’s not abuse and still think she’s doing the wrong thing. They’re not mutually exclusive.[/quote]

You wrote: [quote]When my mom saw the Dr. Phil segment her response to all the hate was “Clearly these people have never raised kids. The only problem with it is it isn’t working.”[/quote]

Clearly not the case of most here who aren’t defending this woman. As for the people in the audience, she wouldn’t know otherwise. I agree, it isn’t working.

I don’t know where that standard you spoke of came from. It doesn’t seem fair put someone’s standard on me and then argue against it. I have nothing to do with that standard.

Several posts in this thread argue that since they got XYZ from their parents and so-forth, those must all be OK (even though some admit they haven’t or won’t use method XYZ).

No, horsewhips are not okay.

Why? PX had to go pick his switch. (I had to go get the belt). A horsewhip is a big assed switch.

My standard is not ‘if a lot of others got it, it’s fine’.

Sure it is-- you just spent paragraphs describing how common and normal hot sauce is and has historically been, especially with Mexican families.

No matter how many people get horsewhipped it will always fuck your shit up. Hot sauce will not. If it did, they wouldn’t sell it.

Really? Do you mean “they” don’t sell shit that will fuck your shit up?

Let me say this-- I’m a bit of a hot food addict. Some of the best food years of my life were spent in grad school in New Mexico eating the hottest food I could find. This summer I ate the “Hellburger” in Denton, Texas (and won a TShirt). I wouldn’t wish that shit on a 5 year old. It’s one thing for me to put myself through hell for the hell of it, quite another to pour that shit (continuously) in a kids mouth (especially if it don’t fucking work).

And yes I do get it. In my other post I said I absolutely agree.

Awesome, I guess.

Do you get what I am saying? The woman is not guilty of abuse. She has done nothing that is severe enough to warrant that title or the associated attitude. She is guilty of shitty parenting, shitty because it’s ineffective, yet she refuses to ditch it.

I do get what you’re saying. And to some extent here, I agree with with your last paragraph. In fact, I gave a scenario where I might use hot sauce. I wouldn’t call DHS on this woman (some would). I would however tell her she’s a dumb, ignorant, fucking cunt if she keeps doing something to the kid that obviously DOESN’T work.

Again, I give parents a wide swath of understanding and everyone’s methods are different. Given that the woman CLEARLY STATED THAT HOT SAUCE AND COLD SHOWERS ARE REPEATEDLY USED BUT DO NOT WORK, then to continue is approaching abuse (Note: I didn’t say CRIMINAL).

She may intend well (and obviously she does), but we all know about good intentions.[/quote]
I don’t know how to singularize quotes like you just did, so my response will be more jumbled.

To your first point. My mom’s reaction was more emotional than logical and furthermore she was wrong. It doesn’t help my argument at all and I shouldn’t have added it.

To your second point. Several posts do argue that, but they’re not my posts. I can’t and shouldn’t be held accountable for the posts of others.

To your third point. If a horse whip is just a big ass switch, then a nuke is just a big ass bomb. In reality, neither is the case. A horse whip is too severe to reprimand a child. It breaks the skin without much effort and is made for the purpose of whipping horses (thick, leathery hides) not people. I got the belt also, but it would take a lot of effort to do what a horse whip would do with a belt.

To your fourth point. My referencing hot sauce’s commonality in Mexican culture was not intended to promote the idea that it is okay or justifiable. People were acting as if it was cruel and unusual. The point was it’s not unusual as evidenced by its commonality. I think it not cruel or abusive because it’s not harmful, not because it’s widespread. So, that it NOT my standard.

To your fifth point. Of course they (meaning the manufacturers) sell things that can POTENTIALLY fuck you up. But, putting hot sauce in your mouth and keeping it there (chewing) is its intended purpose. I can not think of one product that is legally sold with the intended purpose of fucking someone up. Even weapons don’t fit that bill as guns as sold for sport or self defense (which I think is a justifiable exception). As a matter of fact, if you purchase them with the expressed intent of fucking shit up, sales are supposed to be refused and the authorities called. So, while things are sold with the potential to fuck shit up, nothing is sold with the intent to fuck shit up.

Finally, like you said, you actively sought out the hottest shit you could find and ate it for the hell of it. That’s very different than the mom who used standard, off the shelf sauce that everyone eats. The severity is completely different.

Here’s an analogy. Imagine if someone spent years in spanking contests. They won an awesome contest by getting spanked with a paddle covered in thumb tacks. Then they see a kid getting spanked and it upsets them. Why? Because they spent all that time getting spanked, got spanked by a thumb tack paddle and wouldn’t wish that on anyone. Well, they’re not the same thing. A thumb tack paddle is way different than a hand, just as Hellburger is way different than Tabasco.

[Guilty77]

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]Guilty77 wrote:

I did just type that. I don’t know anyone who thinks abuse should be illegal because it’s ineffective. It’s illegal because it’s fucking cruel. If a little kid is stealing cookies and you kick the shit out of him for stealing cookies, he probably won’t do it anymore. Why? Because getting the shit kicked out of you sucks. So, it’s really effective, but people who do it should be locked up because it’s despicable.
[/quote]

I’ve typed several times that I agree that some kids in some cases need an ass whooping. If it works, then it works and you stop whooping their ass. If it doesn’t work, you don’t keep whooping their ass. THAT is abuse. It becomes ass whooping for the sake of ass whooping. It becomes habit.
[/quote]

Now I better understand what you’re saying. And for the sake of clarity, is it abuse because it’s repetitive and unnecessary or is it abuse because it’s violent, repetitive and unnecessary? In other words, if the punishment was banging erasers and it didn’t work, but the teacher (or parent) still had him do it, would that be abuse, or would there need to be a violent aspect, in your eyes?