Worst Parenting... Ever

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Wait, how do you or anyone else know she DIDN’T have the kid evaluated?

That is what I was referring to before. None of you know what she has been through, how many times that kid has acted out or what she has tried before or how many times. You took ONE instance and used that to form a whole opinion of everything about the woman.

Like was said before, my guess is, if cameras were around at all times in 99% of your homes growing up, I am betting there would be at least ONE instance where your parents’ actions would garner criticism from many of the same people in this thread acting like she killed the kid with cold water and hot sauce.

If that ONE instance was used to define everything about your parents skills at raising you, how well would that definition fit?[/quote]

In all seriousness, you are either disingenuous and stubborn to the point of arguing a losing cause to save face, or you’re just stupid. I don’t believe you’re stupid. This is not ONE instance as you keep harping on. It is clear that this is an established approach this woman has used to discipline this child, and that protocol of hers was escalated over time. THIS IS CLEAR AS CAN BE. There is no intelligent debate that this was SOP in her household with this child. We are not witnessing one of those days every parent would take a mulligan on. And if she did have the kid evaluated, I’m pretty sure no one recommended her style of discipline. The kid may be out of control, but SO IS SHE. IT’S THE REASON SHE WENT ON THE SHOW!!!

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
You just above said there are more effective ways. You said you had a problem of your own, which you decided to handle differently.

Self righteous? LOL You are prone to hyperbole aren’t you.[/quote]

The fact that I do not employ food or water to my punishment does not mean I can’t defend the actions by the woman. I never said I agreed with what she did personally, but I know that some cases are beyond my comprehension, and as stated earlier you cannot take 3 minutes out of ones life and make absolute judgments like you do. Look at the 44 guy that made a total judgment on my parenting approach…all from this thread.

Do you realize how many kids are yelled at and intimidated and neglected mentally as a normal approach to parenting? Sure they do not use water or food, soap etc…but they just yell and then shut down. How is that teaching a true lesson.

This person, while maybe misguided, she showed she cares about the child. This is why she kept a dialog through it to make sure he understood what he did wrong.

Again I’m not advocating, but pointing out that we don’t know the story enough to call her a cunt, or that she deserves jail time.

[quote]anonym wrote:
She DID get her kid evaluated at one point.

Debating the merits of her discipline techniques on a broader scale is one thing, but if you are going to rip on the woman, herself, you should at least attempt to do a little research so you know what you’re talking about.

This took me all of 2 minutes to find out using Google (including reading time), by the way, so it’s not like any of you are too strapped for time to handle such a task.[/quote]

Then it begs the question how did situation escalate to the point of seeking out Dr. Phil?

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]SILVERDAN7 wrote:
Also, while much of strength training and BB training in particular has grown from empirical evidence and is only starting to grow in terms of clinical research, much thought and observation has gone into the study of human interaction and development. Because of this, I would argue that research only woud make you more knowledgable of parenting and child dev. than it would of BB. Meaning, if youve never lifted a weight ore dealt with a kid, reading a BOOK on both would teach you more about the latter than it would with the former.[/quote]

Which Book?

There are loads of bad advice about kids out there, either bad outright or bad for the parent and/or the kid involved. I am a researcher and I stopped reading books about kids because most of it did not seem ‘right’ with me. So I have been raising my kid based on my kid.

Last week I explained to her that Mommy and Daddy needed to sleep more so she had to wait until we came to her door in the morning before making noise. Ever since she is waiting quietly when I open her door an hour later than she had been getting up. So, explaining it to her worked. Now, find me a book that says that will work with a kid who just turned 2.

My point, people need to raise the kid, not just some model kid they read about in a book. The women in the video should have had that kid evaluated long before she got to Tabasco and cold showers. My guess that kid needed something more than her other kids but she was too hung up on things that ‘worked’.[/quote]

Wait, how do you or anyone else know she DIDN’T have the kid evaluated?

That is what I was referring to before. None of you know what she has been through, how many times that kid has acted out or what she has tried before or how many times. You took ONE instance and used that to form a whole opinion of everything about the woman.

Like was said before, my guess is, if cameras were around at all times in 99% of your homes growing up, I am betting there would be at least ONE instance where your parents’ actions would garner criticism from many of the same people in this thread acting like she killed the kid with cold water and hot sauce.

If that ONE instance was used to define everything about your parents skills at raising you, how well would that definition fit?[/quote]

I answered you on the parents growing up assumption (or am I that 1%?) In that same post I mention growing up in a household where there were mental health issues, so I can empathize with the women if that is the case. In fact a neighbor family in particular with whom my family was close, the mother and two of the kids had different emotional/developmental issues. I have seen the frustration and the limits of outside help. And I have also seen the need from outside guidance, and even the change in environment, as well.

I assume she had not had him evaluated because having done so would have given her outside support and guidance and she would not have had to turn to Dr. Phil.

What we have ignored to this point in this debate is the amount of pressure parents have to do everything right ans the potential shame that is involved in reaction out for help. My guess that is partially at play in her situation. But then, the kid probably should have already been evaluated by the school psychologist by now as well. But then again, drawing from MarvelGirl’s experience, that could be an unnecessary mainline to medication.

My argument that each kid needs to be raised to THEIR needs still stands. The women’s frustration seemed to come from what had worked in the past was not working in this child’s case. Am I wrong in that assumption?[/quote]

Look, I see MANY kids who are medicated and nearly all of them could probably benefit from more direct parenting than more medication…which is the most likely course of action from a health care professional. Maybe she wanted to avoid that.

She DID have the kid evaluated and my guess is, she had no clue the entire country was going to act like she needed to be burned at the stake because she used water and hot sauce. Hell, I still can’t believe some of these responses. I have seen real child abuse and this ain’t it.

You have no clue what overall effect this had. Maybe he actually did stop lying after this. You don’t fucking know. All you do know is that this woman video taped herself using what she felt was a last ditch effort on her part and then she asked for professional help on NATIONAL STAGE. Look at the reaction she got for that.

Tell me, do you think any other parents will be coming forward now after this even if the situation is way more mild?

You would think she beat the kid up and left his jaw hanging from some of the comments here.

Rushing to judgment on this woman does not make any of you look like thinking adults. It looks like some rash emotional response based on half assed info.

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

I don’t agree you’re a bad parent. I have no information one way or the other. But I will take this opportunity to point out that she lied ALL THE TIME (your words) from age 5-7, a span of roughly 2 years. Obviously, whatever it was you were doing was ineffective. And that brings me to the point that only people WITH CHILDREN can understand. Sometimes, nothing you do works. Sometimes, they go thru phases, and they grow out of shit. What’s most important is to understand WHY a behavior is occurring and addressing the cause, if you can.

My guess is that no number of spankings or taking away her prized possessions were going to curtail her lying…she would have just become a better liar. I hardly think she stopped lying after 2 years because you “took action”, no more than my child got over teething because I took action. :slight_smile:
[/quote]

She would do something right in front of your face, then tell you that she did not do it!

This has been corrected with much trial and error. It was tough.

She does not do it anymore, and she stopped lying about school work, tests reading goals etc. I check up on them through the teacher. It did diminish a lot, but I do know she can still lie.

Teething is far from a behavior issue and more a medical condition in growing up. Just pump her up with some RUM! (Just kidding).

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:

Says the idiot who tried to convince people that being an artist was “important” to society.
[/quote]

So, idiot… imagine your world without artists.

Who do you think draws your favorite video games? Artists. Who paints the images on greeting cards you buy to express “your” feelings for a loved one? Who created the logos for the sports teams you root for or the bands you listen to? How about the clothes you wear… the cool graphics on T-shirts, the cut and design? Who drafts the designs for the buildings we work and dwell in, or that car you drive?

Damn right. Artists. The list is endless. Important to society?
You tell me, internet tough guy.
[/quote]

So tragic.
I’ll take mathematicians and physicists any day over guys who doodle. Nothing wrong with drawing and painting, but for someone who does ONLY that, I fail to see the importance.

As for the pussy thing, BodyGuard, I was referring to discipline.

edit: Anyway, my point was that you need to discipline children.
Hot sauce and a cold shower is hardly anything compared to what some of us have gone through. I’m sure many parents of the posters here have gone through way worse, and turned out fine.
Stop acting like it’s a crime against humanity.

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
You just above said there are more effective ways. You said you had a problem of your own, which you decided to handle differently.

Self righteous? LOL You are prone to hyperbole aren’t you.[/quote]

The fact that I do not employ food or water to my punishment does not mean I can’t defend the actions by the woman. I never said I agreed with what she did personally, but I know that some cases are beyond my comprehension, and as stated earlier you cannot take 3 minutes out of ones life and make absolute judgments like you do. Look at the 44 guy that made a total judgment on my parenting approach…all from this thread.

Do you realize how many kids are yelled at and intimidated and neglected mentally as a normal approach to parenting? Sure they do not use water or food, soap etc…but they just yell and then shut down. How is that teaching a true lesson.

This person, while maybe misguided, she showed she cares about the child. This is why she kept a dialog through it to make sure he understood what he did wrong.

Again I’m not advocating, but pointing out that we don’t know the story enough to call her a cunt, or that she deserves jail time.

[/quote]

How can this be so unclear to you? You say in one breath you don’t agree with her approach, yet you gleefully “defend” her. You say we can’t make a judgment, but it’s clear from the video and what we know of the show that this was standard procedure, that it was escalated and that SHE ADMITTED TO BEING OUT OF CONTROL. What is it here you don’t get? And who is arguing just for the sake of argument???

Like I said, I can tell a lot about person or animal under stress. I saw what I saw about this woman and she most certainly has some issues. As for jail, I don’t recall anyone here advocating that. But I will say she is probably not a good foster mother candidate.

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

I don’t agree you’re a bad parent. I have no information one way or the other. But I will take this opportunity to point out that she lied ALL THE TIME (your words) from age 5-7, a span of roughly 2 years. Obviously, whatever it was you were doing was ineffective. And that brings me to the point that only people WITH CHILDREN can understand. Sometimes, nothing you do works. Sometimes, they go thru phases, and they grow out of shit. What’s most important is to understand WHY a behavior is occurring and addressing the cause, if you can.

My guess is that no number of spankings or taking away her prized possessions were going to curtail her lying…she would have just become a better liar. I hardly think she stopped lying after 2 years because you “took action”, no more than my child got over teething because I took action. :slight_smile:
[/quote]

She would do something right in front of your face, then tell you that she did not do it!

This has been corrected with much trial and error. It was tough.

She does not do it anymore, and she stopped lying about school work, tests reading goals etc. I check up on them through the teacher. It did diminish a lot, but I do know she can still lie.

Teething is far from a behavior issue and more a medical condition in growing up. Just pump her up with some RUM! (Just kidding).
[/quote]

In other words, she grew out of it! Hence my teething reference sir.

[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:

Says the idiot who tried to convince people that being an artist was “important” to society.
[/quote]

So, idiot… imagine your world without artists.

Who do you think draws your favorite video games? Artists. Who paints the images on greeting cards you buy to express “your” feelings for a loved one? Who created the logos for the sports teams you root for or the bands you listen to? How about the clothes you wear… the cool graphics on T-shirts, the cut and design? Who drafts the designs for the buildings we work and dwell in, or that car you drive?

Damn right. Artists. The list is endless. Important to society?
You tell me, internet tough guy.
[/quote]

So tragic.
I’ll take mathematicians and physicists any day over guys who doodle. Nothing wrong with drawing and painting, but for someone who does ONLY that, I fail to see the importance.

As for the pussy thing, BodyGuard, I was referring to discipline.

edit: Anyway, my point was that you need to discipline children.
Hot sauce and a cold shower is hardly anything compared to what some of us have gone through. I’m sure many parents of the posters here have gone through way worse, and turned out fine.
Stop acting like it’s a crime against humanity.[/quote]

The above logic is so fucking flawed, and so pollutes this thread it’s astounding. The logic amounts to nothing more than “there is worse, so this is okay”. What she did was not okay.

[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:

Says the idiot who tried to convince people that being an artist was “important” to society.
[/quote]

So, idiot… imagine your world without artists.

Who do you think draws your favorite video games? Artists. Who paints the images on greeting cards you buy to express “your” feelings for a loved one? Who created the logos for the sports teams you root for or the bands you listen to? How about the clothes you wear… the cool graphics on T-shirts, the cut and design? Who drafts the designs for the buildings we work and dwell in, or that car you drive?

Damn right. Artists. The list is endless. Important to society?
You tell me, internet tough guy.
[/quote]

So tragic.
I’ll take mathematicians and physicists any day over guys who doodle. Nothing wrong with drawing and painting, but for someone who does ONLY that, I fail to see the importance.

As for the pussy thing, BodyGuard, I was referring to discipline.

edit: Anyway, my point was that you need to discipline children.
Hot sauce and a cold shower is hardly anything compared to what some of us have gone through. I’m sure many parents of the posters here have gone through way worse, and turned out fine.
Stop acting like it’s a crime against humanity.[/quote]

Would you use a slide rule to execute another moonshot? Cause NASA did and it worked just fine for them.

Or would you rather use more modern technology?

Equating discipline to just physical punishment without regard to positive reinforcement or other forms of behavior modification is just reinventing a wheel that has been proven not to roll very far or very fast.

Using them doesn’t make a person a pussy. It makes them resourceful and able to think through a problem muti-modally. If you know problem solving, then you know that there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Bodyguard here in Canada we have a dog show where familys with hard to handle dogs get help and one of the things he(trainer) does is put a camera in the house for 24 hrs. The family acts normal and then they review the tape together. Ten times out of ten the family squirms big time when they “see” their behavior on tape as it were. They always look like they just swallowed a worm lol.

I would have liked to have seen her reaction when she watched the video of herself after she calmed down. Something about seeing yourself on camera might have changed her mind no?

[quote]SteelyD wrote:
Dog trainers out there:

When the dog keeps shitting on the carpet, do you keep beating it?[/quote]

exactly.

An hour ago, I was on the phone with my mortgage company, which although I transacted business in America with an American company, I’m speaking to some dipshit in INDIA and I’m pissed the fuck off. My son, excited that I was home, bounded into the room, making noise. I gave him the shut the hell up sign language universal gesticulations. When I finished my call, I called him and we talked. He knows the rule. He’s been told many times. I explained it to him again and why it’s rude and why I need him to be quiet when I’m on the phone. He understands the concept perfectly, even at 4 years old.

I guess I’m a pussy and he will grow up to be soft and undisciplined. He knew the rule and he broke it. I should have strung him up by the ankles, tied his hands behind his back and water hosed him in the face while berating him and repeating the rule. I mean, one day, I might be on the red phone with the President, trying to thwart a terrorist attack, and he might interrupt me, the President might misunderstand me, and Armageddon could result. Or, a burglar might break in, and we will all be cowering in the closet trying not to fart, and this little disobedient seed of mine will say something and give us all away and that’s the end of it.

Instead, I being of sound fucking mind and temperament (most of the time), reinforced the rule, explained the rule and ended it with a hug and a I love you. Why the hug and I love you? BECAUSE HE WAS SUFFICIENTLY DISTRAUGHT THAT THE FATHER HE DEEPLY LOVES AND LOVES HIM BACK IS UPSET WITH HIM!!! And because he’s 4.

This thread has made me wonder, about those parents that spank frequently, without reservation, and even the times I spanked. Are you spanking out of anger and to release your emotions, or are you really spanking to “train” and “teach”. I’d bet if more of us were honest with ourselves, we’d find we spank out of frustration and anger. I know I have. And I don’t like that.

[quote]bond james bond wrote:
Bodyguard here in Canada we have a dog show where familys with hard to handle dogs get help and one of the things he(trainer) does is put a camera in the house for 24 hrs. The family acts normal and then they review the tape together. Ten times out of ten the family squirms big time when they “see” their behavior on tape as it were. They always look like they just swallowed a worm lol.

I would have liked to have seen her reaction when she watched the video of herself after she calmed down. Something about seeing yourself on camera might have changed her mind no?[/quote]

Well, in fairness to her, I think she very clearly knows she has a problem. She did seek help. As an aside, I’m not sure anyone can “act normal” when a camera is present. I don’t think it’s possible, unless or until you forget the camera is there.

I would kill her if there was a good oportunity.

The reason is she adopts children to torture them.

Another thought…

Wouldn’t it be wonderful if parents sought proactive ways to better parenting, rather than either being guided by what was done to them, or what was not done to them? I find most parenting falls into two camps. They either mimic what occurred in their own household (right or wrong) or, they do different in spite of their own upbringing (which may be neither right or wrong, just different for the sake of different b/c they found their own upbringing objectionable).

In my mind, this is a pretty irrational approach to child rearing. Like I said, they don’t come with a manual, and that’s unfortunate. I’m pretty sure we’ve made enough progress in behavioral studies to gives us some valuable guidance beyond either repeating what was done to us, or going against what was done to us.

Just read the threads here and they are replete with your stories of your own upbringing and it’s very clear how they have shaped most of your beliefs. Food for thought. Whether or not someone turned out “okay” or not is not the measuring stick of good parenting. You do realize that whether or not you’re “okay” is debatable and, that children that have suffered terrible injustices have overcome their past to turn out “okay”. The end result is hardly evidence of success in something so malleable and dynamic as human behavior and achievement.

[quote]Ken St.Mich wrote:
I would kill her if there was a good oportunity.

The reason is she adopts children to torture them.[/quote]

Wow…you prove yourself even worse than she is by FAR!

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

How can this be so unclear to you? You say in one breath you don’t agree with her approach, yet you gleefully “defend” her. You say we can’t make a judgment, but it’s clear from the video and what we know of the show that this was standard procedure, that it was escalated and that SHE ADMITTED TO BEING OUT OF CONTROL. What is it here you don’t get? And who is arguing just for the sake of argument???
[/quote]

Ok let’s clear it up…I do not gleefully defend her so much as me defending the position that we can not judge her actions as a whole with her parenting via this snippit video. The fact that she sought help makes no difference. It could have been any woman who spanked her kid, yelled too much, ignored her kids etc…etc. yet still people would judge them as horrible based on a fraction of the story…

Very simple.

Is it an outrage to me? Who am I to say? Would I use that method, no. Do I defend her right to decide the method of punishment…yes…and in this case it’s Grey. If her actions are so horrible, then anyone who spanks their kids, yells or does things in the heat of emotion…we’d all be in fucking jail.

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
An hour ago, I was on the phone with my mortgage company, which although I transacted business in America with an American company, I’m speaking to some dipshit in INDIA and I’m pissed the fuck off. My son, excited that I was home, bounded into the room, making noise. I gave him the shut the hell up sign language universal gesticulations. When I finished my call, I called him and we talked. He knows the rule. He’s been told many times. I explained it to him again and why it’s rude and why I need him to be quiet when I’m on the phone. He understands the concept perfectly, even at 4 years old.

I guess I’m a pussy and he will grow up to be soft and undisciplined. He knew the rule and he broke it. I should have strung him up by the ankles, tied his hands behind his back and water hosed him in the face while berating him and repeating the rule. I mean, one day, I might be on the red phone with the President, trying to thwart a terrorist attack, and he might interrupt me, the President might misunderstand me, and Armageddon could result. Or, a burglar might break in, and we will all be cowering in the closet trying not to fart, and this little disobedient seed of mine will say something and give us all away and that’s the end of it.

Instead, I being of sound fucking mind and temperament (most of the time), reinforced the rule, explained the rule and ended it with a hug and a I love you. Why the hug and I love you? BECAUSE HE WAS SUFFICIENTLY DISTRAUGHT THAT THE FATHER HE DEEPLY LOVES AND LOVES HIM BACK IS UPSET WITH HIM!!! And because he’s 4.

This thread has made me wonder, about those parents that spank frequently, without reservation, and even the times I spanked. Are you spanking out of anger and to release your emotions, or are you really spanking to “train” and “teach”. I’d bet if more of us were honest with ourselves, we’d find we spank out of frustration and anger. I know I have. And I don’t like that.

[/quote]

It’s been a little over two years since I raised my voice in anger at my boy and I believe I’m a better man because of it. I had that lets be honest with ourselves moment you speak of.

[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:

[quote]legendaryblaze wrote:

Says the idiot who tried to convince people that being an artist was “important” to society.
[/quote]

So, idiot… imagine your world without artists.

Who do you think draws your favorite video games? Artists. Who paints the images on greeting cards you buy to express “your” feelings for a loved one? Who created the logos for the sports teams you root for or the bands you listen to? How about the clothes you wear… the cool graphics on T-shirts, the cut and design? Who drafts the designs for the buildings we work and dwell in, or that car you drive?

Damn right. Artists. The list is endless. Important to society?
You tell me, internet tough guy.
[/quote]

So tragic.
I’ll take mathematicians and physicists any day over guys who doodle. Nothing wrong with drawing and painting, but for someone who does ONLY that, I fail to see the importance.

As for the pussy thing, BodyGuard, I was referring to discipline. [/quote]

I’ll say this merits it’s own thread. Yes they do a lot. My business depends on them. Website development. ALL Businesses have websites to help drive the economy, and artistry ends up being the deciding factor along with functionality.

Artists have shaped cultures, government propaganda, messaging etc.

Right down to the machines we build, the car you use, the house you live in, the clothes you wear, and more. Artists and designers are involved in most everything.

Even though ID is a raging liberal, I will still defend his legitimate and creative job, and recognize artists!

He owes me a new avatar now.