Worst Parenting... Ever

Off Topic
301

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

It seems like you have been raised to think little children should be [part of decision making processes. They shouldn’t in my opinion.

If I tell a little kid don’t eat that cookie and they do, it doesn’t fucking matter WHY they ate. They disobeyed an order and that order was made for a reason that a little child may not be able to understand…which is why they have PARENTS.[/quote]

Bingo. I used to ask my kids if they wanted X, Y or Z for dinner…between the 2 of them, they could not ever agree and one if not both were always upset at the outcome and I could never seem to recover. I’ve made this mistake, but it is a particular style that does not work. Parents feel they are making a more well rounded, decisive child if they are consulted about a lot of decisions…they end up being narcissistic in the end moreso than a regular child.

Now, they get what I give them for lunch or dinner. No arguing, and they better appreciate it…like it or not!
[/quote]

Can you point me to the peer reviewed studies supporting your learned conclusions above? Or are we talking about a study of one household? [/quote]

Dude, if you want a peer review for my points, then you must bring them as well for yours. This is MY experience with my kids, as well as many others I have witnessed.

There is NO RIGHT and NO WRONG way to parent proven by science. This is my experience as a father.

What is your hard on about with regard to what I said above?
[/quote]

You made conclusions. I have done no such thing. I have given my opinion.

“I’ve made this mistake, but it is a particular style that does not work. Parents feel they are making a more well rounded, decisive child if they are consulted about a lot of decisions…they end up being narcissistic in the end moreso than a regular child.” [/quote]

Right…I guess my conclusion is a hypothesis to you, but in my house, the more rope you give, the more a kid will hang themselves by making bad choices. If you are not an authority figure (Hands off) then the kids will run rampant. It’s a parents job to make sure they guided, and not left to their own devices.

What’s the problem in that?
[/quote]

Can you please explain to me the connection between “authority figure” as you put it and the video we witnessed? Can you please refer me to the post where someone said they shouldn’t be the “authority figure”. And finally, can you please explain to me where someone advocated a “hands off” approach to parenting?

302

[quote]tom63 wrote:
Here’s an exampek SteelyD of my amazing parenting. Sort of. Or maybe I just make sense now and then. We’re in Walmart. My twin were almost four. My daughter wanted a book which I paid for , but we continued to shop. She kept doing this stop, drop on her knees and refuse to follow me.

I told her one more time and I’m putting her book back on the shelf and we’re leaving. she did and i did. the book cost 2$. I carried her kicking and screaming out of the store under my arm. I was sure getting the looks probably 50/50 in good some parent is handling their kid to he better not abuse that little girl.

But I didn’t care. I first told my son , “you’re not in trouble but one wrong word buddy and you’re done!”

Then I told the kids if either ( we were in the car by then) pulled some crap like that they would never go anywhere, do anything , or get any presents when they were with me. Idle threat, but to a kid who was a month shy of their 4th birthday and who just saw you follow through it seemed serious.

And this never happened again. Stop the behavior now. Remove the child from the area. When things are calm, explain that straying away from dad can be dangerous. Kids see you follow through and know these things from an early age.

My daughter let it slip once how she knew I was serious. She was six. I don’t care how you stop the behavior within reason. Leave the movie or restaurant. Maybe a swat on the behind. A timeout. whatever worked without torturing the kid or tearing the kid down. And I don’t mean raising your voice is tearing a kid down, I mean nasty name calling and such.

And be consistent with rules. I also believe it’s important to make the kids do tasks to get them used to orders. I’d have my kids do simple chores so they !. contribute to the house, 2. get used to doing something and listening to me.[/quote]

Yeah, no shit. I’ve walked out of W/M leaving a full cart in the aisle and two kids under each arm. I don’t give a rat fuck about what people in WalMart thought. No is no and “stop it now” is “stop it now”. No movie that night for sure :wink:

The threat of a public spanking was enough to calm them down. Kids do get embarrassed. None of the “I’m gonna give you hot sauce when I get home”-- dealt with there, immediately and their ‘reward’ for good behavior was taken away. They got to think about THAT the whole way home versus “I’m going to get the hot sauce”-- which leads to another point— Immediacy.

My wife and I have an understanding that we don’t threaten the kids with “Wait until xx gets home”. That only serves to undermine. We’ve always dealt with it there and now. And sometimes it’s embarrassing. Nobody wants to yell at their kids in public.

303

[quote]SILVERDAN7 wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
The dog analogy might be a good one. There exists a wide spectrum of theory and practice by which to train a dog (and other animals) ranging from harsh physical correction to positive reinforcement. Guess what? They all work. What has never been proven however, is what training methodology leads to the better adjusted dog. Frankly, I’ll take the confident secure obedient dog over the fearful obedient dog.

If you have children and you WANT them to fear you, fine. We have no choice but to accept that because you have children, they are yours, you are responsible for them and you’ve earned the right as long as you’re not abusing them.

Personally, I want my children to RESPECT me, not fear me. As a parent, you are already imbued with power and a certain level of fear, because you are the master of their universe until a certain age. I see no reason to increase or trade upon that fear.

If you don’t have children, I really don’t think you have a valid opinion. A well known poster here who shall remain nameless, :slight_smile: LOL, would regularly admonish posters in other forums to STFU because they were too small or untrained to have a valid opinion on a BB subject or thread. It didn’t matter if they poster was well read, learned or such, his opinion did not matter because he had not “lived” the lifestyle of achieved a certain size.

In his words, he didn’t care how smart the 195lb trainer was, he was going to listen to the 265lb guy, because he got there and had experience. I always thought that mindset was a bit harsh, even though I understood it.

Well, maybe he’s right. [/quote]

I agree that your opinion may be more valid due to your experience. However, there are many different ways to learn about discipline in regards to children of all ages. Granted, there are major differences between being a parent and being one of the various types of caretakers our society has created to give more free time to the real parent, but both of them have valuable lessons to teach about communication, education and discilpine.

Also, while much of strength training and BB training in particular has grown from empirical evidence and is only starting to grow in terms of clinical research, much thought and observation has gone into the study of human interaction and development. Because of this, I would argue that research only woud make you more knowledgable of parenting and child dev. than it would of BB. Meaning, if youve never lifted a weight ore dealt with a kid, reading a BOOK on both would teach you more about the latter than it would with the former.[/quote]

Well said. You don’t have to HAVE kids to know what it is to BE one or what it is like to be raised with certain parenting strategies.

304

[quote]SteelyD wrote:

[quote]tom63 wrote:
Here’s an exampek SteelyD of my amazing parenting. Sort of. Or maybe I just make sense now and then. We’re in Walmart. My twin were almost four. My daughter wanted a book which I paid for , but we continued to shop. She kept doing this stop, drop on her knees and refuse to follow me.

I told her one more time and I’m putting her book back on the shelf and we’re leaving. she did and i did. the book cost 2$. I carried her kicking and screaming out of the store under my arm. I was sure getting the looks probably 50/50 in good some parent is handling their kid to he better not abuse that little girl.

But I didn’t care. I first told my son , “you’re not in trouble but one wrong word buddy and you’re done!”

Then I told the kids if either ( we were in the car by then) pulled some crap like that they would never go anywhere, do anything , or get any presents when they were with me. Idle threat, but to a kid who was a month shy of their 4th birthday and who just saw you follow through it seemed serious.

And this never happened again. Stop the behavior now. Remove the child from the area. When things are calm, explain that straying away from dad can be dangerous. Kids see you follow through and know these things from an early age.

My daughter let it slip once how she knew I was serious. She was six. I don’t care how you stop the behavior within reason. Leave the movie or restaurant. Maybe a swat on the behind. A timeout. whatever worked without torturing the kid or tearing the kid down. And I don’t mean raising your voice is tearing a kid down, I mean nasty name calling and such.

And be consistent with rules. I also believe it’s important to make the kids do tasks to get them used to orders. I’d have my kids do simple chores so they !. contribute to the house, 2. get used to doing something and listening to me.[/quote]

Yeah, no shit. I’ve walked out of W/M leaving a full cart in the aisle and two kids under each arm. I don’t give a rat fuck about what people in WalMart thought. No is no and “stop it now” is “stop it now”. No movie that night for sure :wink:

The threat of a public spanking was enough to calm them down. Kids do get embarrassed. None of the “I’m gonna give you hot sauce when I get home”-- dealt with there, immediately and their ‘reward’ for good behavior was taken away. They got to think about THAT the whole way home versus “I’m going to get the hot sauce”-- which leads to another point— Immediacy.

My wife and I have an understanding that we don’t threaten the kids with “Wait until xx gets home”. That only serves to undermine. We’ve always dealt with it there and now. And sometimes it’s embarrassing. Nobody wants to yell at their kids in public.[/quote]

Yeah. It seems like too many parent’s are unwilling to inconvenience themselves with following through on their threat, and leaving wherever they are: a store, a restaurant, a movie. Little kids are kind of like dogs in that way, if you get home and the dog got into the trash, yelling at it hours after the fact (most likely happened in the first five min after you left) ain’t gonna to a thing. You have to make the connection between the action and the response real.

305

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

It seems like you have been raised to think little children should be [part of decision making processes. They shouldn’t in my opinion.

If I tell a little kid don’t eat that cookie and they do, it doesn’t fucking matter WHY they ate. They disobeyed an order and that order was made for a reason that a little child may not be able to understand…which is why they have PARENTS.[/quote]

Bingo. I used to ask my kids if they wanted X, Y or Z for dinner…between the 2 of them, they could not ever agree and one if not both were always upset at the outcome and I could never seem to recover. I’ve made this mistake, but it is a particular style that does not work. Parents feel they are making a more well rounded, decisive child if they are consulted about a lot of decisions…they end up being narcissistic in the end moreso than a regular child.

Now, they get what I give them for lunch or dinner. No arguing, and they better appreciate it…like it or not!
[/quote]

Can you point me to the peer reviewed studies supporting your learned conclusions above? Or are we talking about a study of one household? [/quote]

Dude, if you want a peer review for my points, then you must bring them as well for yours. This is MY experience with my kids, as well as many others I have witnessed.

There is NO RIGHT and NO WRONG way to parent proven by science. This is my experience as a father.

What is your hard on about with regard to what I said above?
[/quote]

You made conclusions. I have done no such thing. I have given my opinion.

“I’ve made this mistake, but it is a particular style that does not work. Parents feel they are making a more well rounded, decisive child if they are consulted about a lot of decisions…they end up being narcissistic in the end moreso than a regular child.” [/quote]

Right…I guess my conclusion is a hypothesis to you, but in my house, the more rope you give, the more a kid will hang themselves by making bad choices. If you are not an authority figure (Hands off) then the kids will run rampant. It’s a parents job to make sure they guided, and not left to their own devices.

What’s the problem in that?
[/quote]

Can you please explain to me the connection between “authority figure” as you put it and the video we witnessed? Can you please refer me to the post where someone said they shouldn’t be the “authority figure”. And finally, can you please explain to me where someone advocated a “hands off” approach to parenting?[/quote]

I said it earlier
“hands Off” and you replied that I meant people need to hit their children.

Anyway, I’m done with you, you just want to argue no matter what.

You have no right to judge another method as shown in the video. You don’t know the full story, you don’t know any of the childs past etc. There are more effective ways, yes, but in this case you KNOW NOTHING about the household situation and the kids behavior pattern. Tobasco and a shower…For fucking lying straight up AFTER you get in trouble at school 3 times. She took action.

I have an 8 year old that would lie ALL THE TIME when she was 5-7. Sitting down and explaining it to her does not work, she still lied. I took action, not in the form of the video or violence in any way, but I took shit away and she screamed bloody murder worse than the kid in the vid.

My point is you cannot be holier than thou, which you seem to be projecting here.

As you said kids don’t come with a manual, and each kid is different…but you seem to know what’s in the fictitious document as well as what the child responds to best.

306

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]SILVERDAN7 wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
The dog analogy might be a good one. There exists a wide spectrum of theory and practice by which to train a dog (and other animals) ranging from harsh physical correction to positive reinforcement. Guess what? They all work. What has never been proven however, is what training methodology leads to the better adjusted dog. Frankly, I’ll take the confident secure obedient dog over the fearful obedient dog.

If you have children and you WANT them to fear you, fine. We have no choice but to accept that because you have children, they are yours, you are responsible for them and you’ve earned the right as long as you’re not abusing them.

Personally, I want my children to RESPECT me, not fear me. As a parent, you are already imbued with power and a certain level of fear, because you are the master of their universe until a certain age. I see no reason to increase or trade upon that fear.

If you don’t have children, I really don’t think you have a valid opinion. A well known poster here who shall remain nameless, :slight_smile: LOL, would regularly admonish posters in other forums to STFU because they were too small or untrained to have a valid opinion on a BB subject or thread. It didn’t matter if they poster was well read, learned or such, his opinion did not matter because he had not “lived” the lifestyle of achieved a certain size.

In his words, he didn’t care how smart the 195lb trainer was, he was going to listen to the 265lb guy, because he got there and had experience. I always thought that mindset was a bit harsh, even though I understood it.

Well, maybe he’s right. [/quote]

I agree that your opinion may be more valid due to your experience. However, there are many different ways to learn about discipline in regards to children of all ages. Granted, there are major differences between being a parent and being one of the various types of caretakers our society has created to give more free time to the real parent, but both of them have valuable lessons to teach about communication, education and discilpine.

Also, while much of strength training and BB training in particular has grown from empirical evidence and is only starting to grow in terms of clinical research, much thought and observation has gone into the study of human interaction and development. Because of this, I would argue that research only woud make you more knowledgable of parenting and child dev. than it would of BB. Meaning, if youve never lifted a weight ore dealt with a kid, reading a BOOK on both would teach you more about the latter than it would with the former.[/quote]

Well said. You don’t have to HAVE kids to know what it is to BE one or what it is like to be raised with certain parenting strategies.[/quote]

This is really GOLD coming from you. Really.

Anyway, this is now an argument, not a discussion, and the internet is a frustrating place to have an argument. We shall agree to disagree. It’s all love here. I’ll still come to you when I want to know if I can grow my arms to 20" but you’ll forgive me if I don’t come for parenting advice :slight_smile: At least until you have successfully raised kids :slight_smile:

307

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

It seems like you have been raised to think little children should be [part of decision making processes. They shouldn’t in my opinion.

If I tell a little kid don’t eat that cookie and they do, it doesn’t fucking matter WHY they ate. They disobeyed an order and that order was made for a reason that a little child may not be able to understand…which is why they have PARENTS.[/quote]

Bingo. I used to ask my kids if they wanted X, Y or Z for dinner…between the 2 of them, they could not ever agree and one if not both were always upset at the outcome and I could never seem to recover. I’ve made this mistake, but it is a particular style that does not work. Parents feel they are making a more well rounded, decisive child if they are consulted about a lot of decisions…they end up being narcissistic in the end moreso than a regular child.

Now, they get what I give them for lunch or dinner. No arguing, and they better appreciate it…like it or not!
[/quote]

Can you point me to the peer reviewed studies supporting your learned conclusions above? Or are we talking about a study of one household? [/quote]

Dude, if you want a peer review for my points, then you must bring them as well for yours. This is MY experience with my kids, as well as many others I have witnessed.

There is NO RIGHT and NO WRONG way to parent proven by science. This is my experience as a father.

What is your hard on about with regard to what I said above?
[/quote]

You made conclusions. I have done no such thing. I have given my opinion.

“I’ve made this mistake, but it is a particular style that does not work. Parents feel they are making a more well rounded, decisive child if they are consulted about a lot of decisions…they end up being narcissistic in the end moreso than a regular child.” [/quote]

Right…I guess my conclusion is a hypothesis to you, but in my house, the more rope you give, the more a kid will hang themselves by making bad choices. If you are not an authority figure (Hands off) then the kids will run rampant. It’s a parents job to make sure they guided, and not left to their own devices.

What’s the problem in that?
[/quote]

Can you please explain to me the connection between “authority figure” as you put it and the video we witnessed? Can you please refer me to the post where someone said they shouldn’t be the “authority figure”. And finally, can you please explain to me where someone advocated a “hands off” approach to parenting?[/quote]

I said it earlier
“hands Off” and you replied that I meant people need to hit their children.

Anyway, I’m done with you, you just want to argue no matter what.

You have no right to judge another method as shown in the video. You don’t know the full story, you don’t know any of the childs past etc. There are more effective ways, yes, but in this case you KNOW NOTHING about the household situation and the kids behavior pattern. Tobasco and a shower…For fucking lying straight up AFTER you get in trouble at school 3 times. She took action.

I have an 8 year old that would lie ALL THE TIME when she was 5-7. Sitting down and explaining it to her does not work, she still lied. I took action, not in the form of the video or violence in any way, but I took shit away and she screamed bloody murder worse than the kid in the vid.

My point is you cannot be holier than thou, which you seem to be projecting here.

As you said kids don’t come with a manual, and each kid is different…but you seem to know what’s in the fictitious document as well as what the child responds to best.
[/quote]

Extremely well said. A bunch of self righteous psychics in this thread apparently.

308

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

I said it earlier
“hands Off” and you replied that I meant people need to hit their children.

Anyway, I’m done with you, you just want to argue no matter what.

You have no right to judge another method as shown in the video. You don’t know the full story, you don’t know any of the childs past etc. There are more effective ways, yes, but in this case you KNOW NOTHING about the household situation and the kids behavior pattern. Tobasco and a shower…For fucking lying straight up AFTER you get in trouble at school 3 times. She took action.

I have an 8 year old that would lie ALL THE TIME when she was 5-7. Sitting down and explaining it to her does not work, she still lied. I took action, not in the form of the video or violence in any way, but I took shit away and she screamed bloody murder worse than the kid in the vid.

My point is you cannot be holier than thou, which you seem to be projecting here.

As you said kids don’t come with a manual, and each kid is different…but you seem to know what’s in the fictitious document as well as what the child responds to best.
[/quote]

I know right from wrong when I see it. And you’re talking out of both sides of your ass. You didn’t use violence or physical punishment, but you’re defending this bitch. So who is arguing just to argue? And, as I said earlier - I HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO JUDGE. SHE PUT HERSELF UP FOR EXPRESS JUDGMENT. MADE THE VIDEO, WENT ON TV, TO BE JUDGED. I HAVE ACCOMMODATED THE BITCH.

309

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Can you please explain to me the connection between “authority figure” as you put it and the video we witnessed? Can you please refer me to the post where someone said they shouldn’t be the “authority figure”. And finally, can you please explain to me where someone advocated a “hands off” approach to parenting?[/quote]

I said it earlier
“hands Off” and you replied that I meant people need to hit their children.

Anyway, I’m done with you, you just want to argue no matter what.

You have no right to judge another method as shown in the video. You don’t know the full story, you don’t know any of the childs past etc. There are more effective ways, yes, but in this case you KNOW NOTHING about the household situation and the kids behavior pattern. Tobasco and a shower…For fucking lying straight up AFTER you get in trouble at school 3 times. She took action.

I have an 8 year old that would lie ALL THE TIME when she was 5-7. Sitting down and explaining it to her does not work, she still lied. I took action, not in the form of the video or violence in any way, but I took shit away and she screamed bloody murder worse than the kid in the vid.

My point is you cannot be holier than thou, which you seem to be projecting here.

As you said kids don’t come with a manual, and each kid is different…but you seem to know what’s in the fictitious document as well as what the child responds to best.
[/quote]

Extremely well said. A bunch of self righteous psychics in this thread apparently.
[/quote]

Please unlink from the daisy chain. It’s unbecoming. You’re both all over the place and full of contradictions. Want to see a few? You just above said there are more effective ways. You said you had a problem of your own, which you decided to handle differently. X has been all over the place in an effort to defend this lady.

Look, I get the desire to give parents a wide berth when it comes to raising their children without being second guessed. I get that. And I don’t care we don’t know this kid’s history. Her methods have already been established as NOT WORKING. She is wrong. Period.

Self righteous? LOL You are prone to hyperbole aren’t you.

310

[quote]Professor X wrote:
A bunch of self righteous psychics in this thread apparently.
[/quote]

Oh, c’mon now.

311

Our son has never thrown a tantrum, ever, he’s pretty mellow like his Mother, he does have a temper but it’s a slow burn. After reading through this thread I’m begining to doubht myself and my parenting skills. Did we over play our zero tolerance policy when it came to being a suck?

Does anybody here thinks it’s odd that a kid never throws a fit? I think he slammed his bedroom door once and my wife and I looked at each other like WTF? and smiled.

Also he’s an only child and maybe that’s got something to do with it. He’s done some pretty stupid shit though and by no means is perfect.

When he was little and we were going into a store, before we would arrive I would always say to him " start any shit in there and we are leaving pronto, put yourself in my place, would you want to put up with that crap if you were in my place boy?" I would also be fair and spend time in the toy area because he would have to spend time in the boring grown up areas. That seems right to me or is it?

Some days I WISH he would throw a fit. I should get a paternity test cause I’m a fuckin’ spaz lol.

312

[quote]SILVERDAN7 wrote:
Also, while much of strength training and BB training in particular has grown from empirical evidence and is only starting to grow in terms of clinical research, much thought and observation has gone into the study of human interaction and development. Because of this, I would argue that research only woud make you more knowledgable of parenting and child dev. than it would of BB. Meaning, if youve never lifted a weight ore dealt with a kid, reading a BOOK on both would teach you more about the latter than it would with the former.[/quote]

Which Book?

There are loads of bad advice about kids out there, either bad outright or bad for the parent and/or the kid involved. I am a researcher and I stopped reading books about kids because most of it did not seem ‘right’ with me. So I have been raising my kid based on my kid.

Last week I explained to her that Mommy and Daddy needed to sleep more so she had to wait until we came to her door in the morning before making noise. Ever since she is waiting quietly when I open her door an hour later than she had been getting up. So, explaining it to her worked. Now, find me a book that says that will work with a kid who just turned 2.

My point, people need to raise the kid, not just some model kid they read about in a book. The women in the video should have had that kid evaluated long before she got to Tabasco and cold showers. My guess that kid needed something more than her other kids but she was too hung up on things that ‘worked’.

313

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

It seems like you have been raised to think little children should be [part of decision making processes. They shouldn’t in my opinion.

If I tell a little kid don’t eat that cookie and they do, it doesn’t fucking matter WHY they ate. They disobeyed an order and that order was made for a reason that a little child may not be able to understand…which is why they have PARENTS.[/quote]

Bingo. I used to ask my kids if they wanted X, Y or Z for dinner…between the 2 of them, they could not ever agree and one if not both were always upset at the outcome and I could never seem to recover. I’ve made this mistake, but it is a particular style that does not work. Parents feel they are making a more well rounded, decisive child if they are consulted about a lot of decisions…they end up being narcissistic in the end moreso than a regular child.

Now, they get what I give them for lunch or dinner. No arguing, and they better appreciate it…like it or not!
[/quote]

Can you point me to the peer reviewed studies supporting your learned conclusions above? Or are we talking about a study of one household? [/quote]

Dude, if you want a peer review for my points, then you must bring them as well for yours. This is MY experience with my kids, as well as many others I have witnessed.

There is NO RIGHT and NO WRONG way to parent proven by science. This is my experience as a father.

What is your hard on about with regard to what I said above?
[/quote]

You made conclusions. I have done no such thing. I have given my opinion.

“I’ve made this mistake, but it is a particular style that does not work. Parents feel they are making a more well rounded, decisive child if they are consulted about a lot of decisions…they end up being narcissistic in the end moreso than a regular child.” [/quote]

Right…I guess my conclusion is a hypothesis to you, but in my house, the more rope you give, the more a kid will hang themselves by making bad choices. If you are not an authority figure (Hands off) then the kids will run rampant. It’s a parents job to make sure they guided, and not left to their own devices.

What’s the problem in that?
[/quote]

Can you please explain to me the connection between “authority figure” as you put it and the video we witnessed? Can you please refer me to the post where someone said they shouldn’t be the “authority figure”. And finally, can you please explain to me where someone advocated a “hands off” approach to parenting?[/quote]

I said it earlier
“hands Off” and you replied that I meant people need to hit their children.

Anyway, I’m done with you, you just want to argue no matter what.

You have no right to judge another method as shown in the video. You don’t know the full story, you don’t know any of the childs past etc. There are more effective ways, yes, but in this case you KNOW NOTHING about the household situation and the kids behavior pattern. Tobasco and a shower…For fucking lying straight up AFTER you get in trouble at school 3 times. She took action.

I have an 8 year old that would lie ALL THE TIME when she was 5-7. Sitting down and explaining it to her does not work, she still lied. I took action, not in the form of the video or violence in any way, but I took shit away and she screamed bloody murder worse than the kid in the vid.

My point is you cannot be holier than thou, which you seem to be projecting here.

As you said kids don’t come with a manual, and each kid is different…but you seem to know what’s in the fictitious document as well as what the child responds to best.
[/quote]

you need to work on your parenting skills…i feel sorry for your children

314

[quote]colt44 wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

It seems like you have been raised to think little children should be [part of decision making processes. They shouldn’t in my opinion.

If I tell a little kid don’t eat that cookie and they do, it doesn’t fucking matter WHY they ate. They disobeyed an order and that order was made for a reason that a little child may not be able to understand…which is why they have PARENTS.[/quote]

Bingo. I used to ask my kids if they wanted X, Y or Z for dinner…between the 2 of them, they could not ever agree and one if not both were always upset at the outcome and I could never seem to recover. I’ve made this mistake, but it is a particular style that does not work. Parents feel they are making a more well rounded, decisive child if they are consulted about a lot of decisions…they end up being narcissistic in the end moreso than a regular child.

Now, they get what I give them for lunch or dinner. No arguing, and they better appreciate it…like it or not!
[/quote]

Can you point me to the peer reviewed studies supporting your learned conclusions above? Or are we talking about a study of one household? [/quote]

Dude, if you want a peer review for my points, then you must bring them as well for yours. This is MY experience with my kids, as well as many others I have witnessed.

There is NO RIGHT and NO WRONG way to parent proven by science. This is my experience as a father.

What is your hard on about with regard to what I said above?
[/quote]

You made conclusions. I have done no such thing. I have given my opinion.

“I’ve made this mistake, but it is a particular style that does not work. Parents feel they are making a more well rounded, decisive child if they are consulted about a lot of decisions…they end up being narcissistic in the end moreso than a regular child.” [/quote]

Right…I guess my conclusion is a hypothesis to you, but in my house, the more rope you give, the more a kid will hang themselves by making bad choices. If you are not an authority figure (Hands off) then the kids will run rampant. It’s a parents job to make sure they guided, and not left to their own devices.

What’s the problem in that?
[/quote]

Can you please explain to me the connection between “authority figure” as you put it and the video we witnessed? Can you please refer me to the post where someone said they shouldn’t be the “authority figure”. And finally, can you please explain to me where someone advocated a “hands off” approach to parenting?[/quote]

I said it earlier
“hands Off” and you replied that I meant people need to hit their children.

Anyway, I’m done with you, you just want to argue no matter what.

You have no right to judge another method as shown in the video. You don’t know the full story, you don’t know any of the childs past etc. There are more effective ways, yes, but in this case you KNOW NOTHING about the household situation and the kids behavior pattern. Tobasco and a shower…For fucking lying straight up AFTER you get in trouble at school 3 times. She took action.

I have an 8 year old that would lie ALL THE TIME when she was 5-7. Sitting down and explaining it to her does not work, she still lied. I took action, not in the form of the video or violence in any way, but I took shit away and she screamed bloody murder worse than the kid in the vid.

My point is you cannot be holier than thou, which you seem to be projecting here.

As you said kids don’t come with a manual, and each kid is different…but you seem to know what’s in the fictitious document as well as what the child responds to best.
[/quote]

you need to work on your parenting skills…i feel sorry for your children[/quote]

What in the above shows poor parenting skills? PLEASE show me. Was it taking away their material things that was wrong???

My children are well adjusted and are in top percentile in their classes. They are involved in Girl Scouts, student council and drama classes. They are soccer and softball players and love it. They read, take walks, ride bikes and have a good network of good friends.

Go fuck yourself!

315

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]SILVERDAN7 wrote:
Also, while much of strength training and BB training in particular has grown from empirical evidence and is only starting to grow in terms of clinical research, much thought and observation has gone into the study of human interaction and development. Because of this, I would argue that research only woud make you more knowledgable of parenting and child dev. than it would of BB. Meaning, if youve never lifted a weight ore dealt with a kid, reading a BOOK on both would teach you more about the latter than it would with the former.[/quote]

Which Book?

There are loads of bad advice about kids out there, either bad outright or bad for the parent and/or the kid involved. I am a researcher and I stopped reading books about kids because most of it did not seem ‘right’ with me. So I have been raising my kid based on my kid.

Last week I explained to her that Mommy and Daddy needed to sleep more so she had to wait until we came to her door in the morning before making noise. Ever since she is waiting quietly when I open her door an hour later than she had been getting up. So, explaining it to her worked. Now, find me a book that says that will work with a kid who just turned 2.

My point, people need to raise the kid, not just some model kid they read about in a book. The women in the video should have had that kid evaluated long before she got to Tabasco and cold showers. My guess that kid needed something more than her other kids but she was too hung up on things that ‘worked’.[/quote]

Wait, how do you or anyone else know she DIDN’T have the kid evaluated?

That is what I was referring to before. None of you know what she has been through, how many times that kid has acted out or what she has tried before or how many times. You took ONE instance and used that to form a whole opinion of everything about the woman.

Like was said before, my guess is, if cameras were around at all times in 99% of your homes growing up, I am betting there would be at least ONE instance where your parents’ actions would garner criticism from many of the same people in this thread acting like she killed the kid with cold water and hot sauce.

If that ONE instance was used to define everything about your parents skills at raising you, how well would that definition fit?

316

[quote]colt44 wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

It seems like you have been raised to think little children should be [part of decision making processes. They shouldn’t in my opinion.

If I tell a little kid don’t eat that cookie and they do, it doesn’t fucking matter WHY they ate. They disobeyed an order and that order was made for a reason that a little child may not be able to understand…which is why they have PARENTS.[/quote]

Bingo. I used to ask my kids if they wanted X, Y or Z for dinner…between the 2 of them, they could not ever agree and one if not both were always upset at the outcome and I could never seem to recover. I’ve made this mistake, but it is a particular style that does not work. Parents feel they are making a more well rounded, decisive child if they are consulted about a lot of decisions…they end up being narcissistic in the end moreso than a regular child.

Now, they get what I give them for lunch or dinner. No arguing, and they better appreciate it…like it or not!
[/quote]

Can you point me to the peer reviewed studies supporting your learned conclusions above? Or are we talking about a study of one household? [/quote]

Dude, if you want a peer review for my points, then you must bring them as well for yours. This is MY experience with my kids, as well as many others I have witnessed.

There is NO RIGHT and NO WRONG way to parent proven by science. This is my experience as a father.

What is your hard on about with regard to what I said above?
[/quote]

You made conclusions. I have done no such thing. I have given my opinion.

“I’ve made this mistake, but it is a particular style that does not work. Parents feel they are making a more well rounded, decisive child if they are consulted about a lot of decisions…they end up being narcissistic in the end moreso than a regular child.” [/quote]

Right…I guess my conclusion is a hypothesis to you, but in my house, the more rope you give, the more a kid will hang themselves by making bad choices. If you are not an authority figure (Hands off) then the kids will run rampant. It’s a parents job to make sure they guided, and not left to their own devices.

What’s the problem in that?
[/quote]

Can you please explain to me the connection between “authority figure” as you put it and the video we witnessed? Can you please refer me to the post where someone said they shouldn’t be the “authority figure”. And finally, can you please explain to me where someone advocated a “hands off” approach to parenting?[/quote]

I said it earlier
“hands Off” and you replied that I meant people need to hit their children.

Anyway, I’m done with you, you just want to argue no matter what.

You have no right to judge another method as shown in the video. You don’t know the full story, you don’t know any of the childs past etc. There are more effective ways, yes, but in this case you KNOW NOTHING about the household situation and the kids behavior pattern. Tobasco and a shower…For fucking lying straight up AFTER you get in trouble at school 3 times. She took action.

I have an 8 year old that would lie ALL THE TIME when she was 5-7. Sitting down and explaining it to her does not work, she still lied. I took action, not in the form of the video or violence in any way, but I took shit away and she screamed bloody murder worse than the kid in the vid.

My point is you cannot be holier than thou, which you seem to be projecting here.

As you said kids don’t come with a manual, and each kid is different…but you seem to know what’s in the fictitious document as well as what the child responds to best.
[/quote]

you need to work on your parenting skills…i feel sorry for your children[/quote]

You feel sorry for his children? Why?

In fact, tell us about yourself. How did your parents raise an outstanding son? What wonderful things have you accomplished that most kids don’t? Any cures for cancer coming from your direction?

317

She DID get her kid evaluated at one point.

Debating the merits of her discipline techniques on a broader scale is one thing, but if you are going to rip on the woman, herself, you should at least attempt to do a little research so you know what you’re talking about.

This took me all of 2 minutes to find out using Google (including reading time), by the way, so it’s not like any of you are too strapped for time to handle such a task.

318

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]colt44 wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

It seems like you have been raised to think little children should be [part of decision making processes. They shouldn’t in my opinion.

If I tell a little kid don’t eat that cookie and they do, it doesn’t fucking matter WHY they ate. They disobeyed an order and that order was made for a reason that a little child may not be able to understand…which is why they have PARENTS.[/quote]

Bingo. I used to ask my kids if they wanted X, Y or Z for dinner…between the 2 of them, they could not ever agree and one if not both were always upset at the outcome and I could never seem to recover. I’ve made this mistake, but it is a particular style that does not work. Parents feel they are making a more well rounded, decisive child if they are consulted about a lot of decisions…they end up being narcissistic in the end moreso than a regular child.

Now, they get what I give them for lunch or dinner. No arguing, and they better appreciate it…like it or not!
[/quote]

Can you point me to the peer reviewed studies supporting your learned conclusions above? Or are we talking about a study of one household? [/quote]

Dude, if you want a peer review for my points, then you must bring them as well for yours. This is MY experience with my kids, as well as many others I have witnessed.

There is NO RIGHT and NO WRONG way to parent proven by science. This is my experience as a father.

What is your hard on about with regard to what I said above?
[/quote]

You made conclusions. I have done no such thing. I have given my opinion.

“I’ve made this mistake, but it is a particular style that does not work. Parents feel they are making a more well rounded, decisive child if they are consulted about a lot of decisions…they end up being narcissistic in the end moreso than a regular child.” [/quote]

Right…I guess my conclusion is a hypothesis to you, but in my house, the more rope you give, the more a kid will hang themselves by making bad choices. If you are not an authority figure (Hands off) then the kids will run rampant. It’s a parents job to make sure they guided, and not left to their own devices.

What’s the problem in that?
[/quote]

Can you please explain to me the connection between “authority figure” as you put it and the video we witnessed? Can you please refer me to the post where someone said they shouldn’t be the “authority figure”. And finally, can you please explain to me where someone advocated a “hands off” approach to parenting?[/quote]

I said it earlier
“hands Off” and you replied that I meant people need to hit their children.

Anyway, I’m done with you, you just want to argue no matter what.

You have no right to judge another method as shown in the video. You don’t know the full story, you don’t know any of the childs past etc. There are more effective ways, yes, but in this case you KNOW NOTHING about the household situation and the kids behavior pattern. Tobasco and a shower…For fucking lying straight up AFTER you get in trouble at school 3 times. She took action.

I have an 8 year old that would lie ALL THE TIME when she was 5-7. Sitting down and explaining it to her does not work, she still lied. I took action, not in the form of the video or violence in any way, but I took shit away and she screamed bloody murder worse than the kid in the vid.

My point is you cannot be holier than thou, which you seem to be projecting here.

As you said kids don’t come with a manual, and each kid is different…but you seem to know what’s in the fictitious document as well as what the child responds to best.
[/quote]

you need to work on your parenting skills…i feel sorry for your children[/quote]

You feel sorry for his children? Why?

In fact, tell us about yourself. How did your parents raise an outstanding son? What wonderful things have you accomplished that most kids don’t? Any cures for cancer coming from your direction?[/quote]

Colt this is what I will say about this, in real life you would not dare say this to a grown man. Being a father myself if I heard a young person say this to another man I would be inclined to kick that young persons ass myself. You may have had a fucked up childhood and so you see everything from that viewpoint. So are you a father? NO I can answer that because a father would not have said that to another man.

319

[quote]Rockscar wrote:

What in the above shows poor parenting skills? PLEASE show me. Was it taking away their material things that was wrong???

My children are well adjusted and are in top percentile in their classes. They are involved in Girl Scouts, student council and drama classes. They are soccer and softball players and love it. They read, take walks, ride bikes and have a good network of good friends.

Go fuck yourself!
[/quote]

I don’t agree you’re a bad parent. I have no information one way or the other. But I will take this opportunity to point out that she lied ALL THE TIME (your words) from age 5-7, a span of roughly 2 years. Obviously, whatever it was you were doing was ineffective. And that brings me to the point that only people WITH CHILDREN can understand. Sometimes, nothing you do works. Sometimes, they go thru phases, and they grow out of shit. What’s most important is to understand WHY a behavior is occurring and addressing the cause, if you can.

My guess is that no number of spankings or taking away her prized possessions were going to curtail her lying…she would have just become a better liar. I hardly think she stopped lying after 2 years because you “took action”, no more than my child got over teething because I took action. :slight_smile:

320

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Tex Ag wrote:

[quote]SILVERDAN7 wrote:
Also, while much of strength training and BB training in particular has grown from empirical evidence and is only starting to grow in terms of clinical research, much thought and observation has gone into the study of human interaction and development. Because of this, I would argue that research only woud make you more knowledgable of parenting and child dev. than it would of BB. Meaning, if youve never lifted a weight ore dealt with a kid, reading a BOOK on both would teach you more about the latter than it would with the former.[/quote]

Which Book?

There are loads of bad advice about kids out there, either bad outright or bad for the parent and/or the kid involved. I am a researcher and I stopped reading books about kids because most of it did not seem ‘right’ with me. So I have been raising my kid based on my kid.

Last week I explained to her that Mommy and Daddy needed to sleep more so she had to wait until we came to her door in the morning before making noise. Ever since she is waiting quietly when I open her door an hour later than she had been getting up. So, explaining it to her worked. Now, find me a book that says that will work with a kid who just turned 2.

My point, people need to raise the kid, not just some model kid they read about in a book. The women in the video should have had that kid evaluated long before she got to Tabasco and cold showers. My guess that kid needed something more than her other kids but she was too hung up on things that ‘worked’.[/quote]

Wait, how do you or anyone else know she DIDN’T have the kid evaluated?

That is what I was referring to before. None of you know what she has been through, how many times that kid has acted out or what she has tried before or how many times. You took ONE instance and used that to form a whole opinion of everything about the woman.

Like was said before, my guess is, if cameras were around at all times in 99% of your homes growing up, I am betting there would be at least ONE instance where your parents’ actions would garner criticism from many of the same people in this thread acting like she killed the kid with cold water and hot sauce.

If that ONE instance was used to define everything about your parents skills at raising you, how well would that definition fit?[/quote]

I answered you on the parents growing up assumption (or am I that 1%?) In that same post I mention growing up in a household where there were mental health issues, so I can empathize with the women if that is the case. In fact a neighbor family in particular with whom my family was close, the mother and two of the kids had different emotional/developmental issues. I have seen the frustration and the limits of outside help. And I have also seen the need from outside guidance, and even the change in environment, as well.

I assume she had not had him evaluated because having done so would have given her outside support and guidance and she would not have had to turn to Dr. Phil.

What we have ignored to this point in this debate is the amount of pressure parents have to do everything right ans the potential shame that is involved in reaction out for help. My guess that is partially at play in her situation. But then, the kid probably should have already been evaluated by the school psychologist by now as well. But then again, drawing from MarvelGirl’s experience, that could be an unnecessary mainline to medication.

My argument that each kid needs to be raised to THEIR needs still stands. The women’s frustration seemed to come from what had worked in the past was not working in this child’s case. Am I wrong in that assumption?