x and sentoguy i dont even know why u guys try, people just dont want to listen to the truth
[quote]crod266 wrote:
x and sentoguy i dont even know why u guys try, people just dont want to listen to the truth[/quote]
I dont know if its directed to me, but anyway: repeating for the third time, i’m not saying that tbt is superior for hypertrophy. In fact, in the last 6 month i have been only training in a kind of split because i find more advantages doing it now(what doesnt mean i wont do full body workouts again). Its not like the two methods brings compltely different results, to me both are about hard work and progression in the basic exercises.
My point here(again): if the guy did both methods and find full body workouts gave HIM better results, he doesnt need to change just because its not the most popular method now. Im not saying tbt is the future of bodybuilding(the coment about the 2059 olympia is just sarcasm if you didnt get it), i’m just saying that you dont have to follow the crowd against your own experience, even because the current trends are always changing. Unless my writing is really that bad, i really dont see reasons for disagreement.
[quote]Sagat wrote:
crod266 wrote:
x and sentoguy i dont even know why u guys try, people just dont want to listen to the truth
I dont know if its directed to me, but anyway: repeating for the third time, i’m not saying that tbt is superior for hypertrophy. In fact, in the last 6 month i have been only training in a kind of split because i find more advantages doing it now(what doesnt mean i wont do full body workouts again). Its not like the two methods brings compltely different results, to me both are about hard work and progression in the basic exercises.
My point here(again): if the guy did both methods and find full body workouts gave HIM better results, he doesnt need to change just because its not the most popular method now. Im not saying tbt is the future of bodybuilding(the coment about the 2059 olympia is just sarcasm if you didnt get it), i’m just saying that you dont have to follow the crowd against your own experience, even because the current trends are always changing. Unless my writing is really that bad, i really dont see reasons for disagreement.[/quote]
But the guy has made some huge mistakes (specifically in terms of his diet) that make his argument a hard pill to swallow. He has openly admitted that building muscle is not his primary goal, therefore his testimony doesn’t really hold much water in a conversation about what is the best method for building maximal amounts of muscle.
Might TBT (at least the way this guy has been doing it) require less calories to recover/grow from (due to less intensity, less volume, less energy demands)? Yes. Thus allowing him to make some gains while continuing to not eat enough.
Does that make it superior for him in terms of building muscle? Not necessarily. He might have built considerably more muscle if he’d used splits and eaten enough to support the recovery/growth that resulted from it.
You can’t make a fatal error like not taking in enough calories to support your growth/recovery from your workout and then claim this proves that one method works better than the other. It shows a complete lack of understanding of the role of nutrition in training/building muscle.
It’s a bit arrogant to say that unless someone shares your goal of building muscle regardless of body fat percentage, they have a “complete lack of understanding of the rule of nutrition in training/building muscle”.
I understand very well how nutrition affects muscle and fat gain. I just don’t share your goals.
I’ve made two points here, which you have yet to refute:
-
When both leanness and muscle gain are the goal, TBT has worked better for me than splits.
-
You have no foundation for claiming that splits are better for muscle gain, unless you compare your results against someone (ideally yourself) that has used TBT, while eating as much as you eat, and while working out as intensely as you do.
[quote]forlife wrote:
<<< When both leanness and muscle gain are the goal >>>[/quote]
When both leanness and muscle gain are the goal at the same time you have a complete lack of understanding period.
[quote]I do fine for someone my height (5’6"):
3x10 decline bench at 450 pounds
3x10 leg press at 1080 pounds
3x10 dips with 90 pounds around waist
3x10 pullups with 45 pounds around waist[/quote]
In my opinion, the shorter you are, the more impressive your lifts should be. If you’re short you got quite a few advantages in this game. The only real disadvantage is that if you stand next to an impressive tall bodybuilder, the tall bodybuilder always looks more impressive and imposing. 
I doubt it was the only factor as well. Did you train as intensely when you did splits? Was your split logical and thought out? Did you leave yourself on the floor every workout while on the split? Did you use worthless excercises?
You might’ve made greater gains with TBT because you stressed your muscles more frequently than splits… because you didn’t bring enough intensity while doing a split routine. If your intensity sucked with splits… and you increased the frequency by doing TBT… I would see no reason why you wouldn’t have made greater gains. (EDIT: IGNORE THAT ^^^ makes no sense… wrongo…)
OR you could’ve been working past the point of recovery while doing splits because you weren’t eating enough… and the drop in volume per bodypart when you switched to TBT resulted in less required recovery… and therefore more growth.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
When both leanness and muscle gain are the goal at the same time you have a complete lack of understanding period.
[/quote]
It’s not rocket science.
The more you eat, the easier it is to gain both muscle and fat.
The less you eat, the harder it is to gain both muscle and fat.
It’s not a black and white issue, but a question of where your goals lie in that continuum.
I’m not joining in on either side of the argument, but I’m amazed you do TBT 5x a day. That’s some crazy recovery.
First off I want to thank everyone for there input in this post everyone has some good insight on this topic.
As for what I have experienced so I am 2 weeks into chest back and the first week towards the end of the workout I felt a little nauseous lol. Overall it was a good work out. Let me also add that I switch what I do first so first week I did chest first second week I do back thidr week I super set. This keeps my work out fresh so far so good. I am doing a bulk so I am getting plenty of calories but this workout is not for amateurs because I lift heavy 3x6 it’s pretty taxing.
Also let me add that when I lift back first I start with deadlifts lol. I will keep you guys posted on my mass gains. I was 160 after 2 weeks I am 162 so will see how it goes.
I can only speak for myself as i have seen gains workingout this way…and I like working back and chest on the same day; and love supperseting those parts…meaning little rest; and i do this for a reason. i cant spend all freaking day in the gym…i dont have the time…and found it most effective to use supersets. to those of you who claim that it cannot be done; your pussies…the body adapts to demand; you have to be aggressive.
[quote]ds77 wrote:
I can only speak for myself as i have seen gains workingout this way…and I like working back and chest on the same day; and love supperseting those parts…meaning little rest; and i do this for a reason. i cant spend all freaking day in the gym…i dont have the time…and found it most effective to use supersets. to those of you who claim that it cannot be done; your pussies…the body adapts to demand; you have to be aggressive.[/quote]
Well, since anyone who doesn’t train chest and back on the same day is a pussy, care to post some stats and a picture so we can see what we all should be aiming for?
i just like the word …pussy; deal with it.
[quote]ds77 wrote:
i just like the word …pussy; deal with it.[/quote]
No, you claimed that we are pussies…which implies we aren’t working hard enough or haven’t accomplished enough. I want to see what it looks like to not be a pussy and DARE to train chest and back on the same day…like YOU.
Stats?
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Sagat wrote:
crod266 wrote:
x and sentoguy i dont even know why u guys try, people just dont want to listen to the truth
I dont know if its directed to me, but anyway: repeating for the third time, i’m not saying that tbt is superior for hypertrophy. In fact, in the last 6 month i have been only training in a kind of split because i find more advantages doing it now(what doesnt mean i wont do full body workouts again). Its not like the two methods brings compltely different results, to me both are about hard work and progression in the basic exercises.
My point here(again): if the guy did both methods and find full body workouts gave HIM better results, he doesnt need to change just because its not the most popular method now. Im not saying tbt is the future of bodybuilding(the coment about the 2059 olympia is just sarcasm if you didnt get it), i’m just saying that you dont have to follow the crowd against your own experience, even because the current trends are always changing. Unless my writing is really that bad, i really dont see reasons for disagreement.
But the guy has made some huge mistakes (specifically in terms of his diet) that make his argument a hard pill to swallow. He has openly admitted that building muscle is not his primary goal, therefore his testimony doesn’t really hold much water in a conversation about what is the best method for building maximal amounts of muscle.
Might TBT (at least the way this guy has been doing it) require less calories to recover/grow from (due to less intensity, less volume, less energy demands)? Yes. Thus allowing him to make some gains while continuing to not eat enough.
Does that make it superior for him in terms of building muscle? Not necessarily. He might have built considerably more muscle if he’d used splits and eaten enough to support the recovery/growth that resulted from it.
You can’t make a fatal error like not taking in enough calories to support your growth/recovery from your workout and then claim this proves that one method works better than the other. It shows a complete lack of understanding of the role of nutrition in training/building muscle.[/quote]
that actually wasnt directed towards you, it was more of a general statment
[quote]Professor X wrote:
ds77 wrote:
i just like the word …pussy; deal with it.
No, you claimed that we are pussies…which implies we aren’t working hard enough or haven’t accomplished enough. I want to see what it looks like to not be a pussy and DARE to train chest and back on the same day…like YOU.
Stats?[/quote]
wow; you dare me…ok; since i already did it fool.,…you ever look at arnolds program?..and by the way anyone not doing push pull is a pussy…oh oh; i guess arnold lied about his training; thereby breaking the body building time continuum.
The topic of this thread was “working chest and back on the same day”, right? Just checking.
If working chest and back on the same day, who prefers super sets instead of straight sets?
Say you are doing 3 exercises for chest and the same for back. 4 sets of 6-8 reps.
A1. Bench
A2. BB row
B1. Incline DB bench
B2. Pull-ups
Etc.
Or would you prefer straight sets?
Would you change your preference of straight sets/super sets depending on if you are in a fat loss phase or a mass gaining phase?
Working chest and back on the same day is for pussies.
<_<
_>
Assuming I’m in the gym when it’s quite and I have access to multiple stations, I like to superset back and chest.
Of course I don’t supersets like most, I assume, perform them. Most perform supersets with little rest between alternating sets. Doing so increases the density and cardio aspect of the routine, but is not optimal for using max loads.
Contrarily, I rest for the same length of time between alternating sets as if I were performing straight sets. This way I’m actually doubling my rest period, which allows me to use my heaviest weights, with the same exercise without requiring me to lengthen my session.
[quote]ds77 wrote:
wow; you dare me…ok; since i already did it fool.,…you ever look at arnolds program?..and by the way anyone not doing push pull is a pussy…oh oh; i guess arnold lied about his training; thereby breaking the body building time continuum.
[/quote]
Dude, the point is that you’re running your mouth and calling people pussies, yet you do not have a single stat filled out in your profile, and not a single picture of your “not-a-pussy” physique…
In short, the Prof is basically saying that you’re probably a 140 pound tool with no muscle, no real bodybuilding progress and a big mouth spewing worthless tripe to boot.
Now, perhaps this assessment is misguided, in which case you should post some pics of your progress so you can correct this misconception asap…
[quote]ds77 wrote:
I can only speak for myself as i have seen gains workingout this way…and I like working back and chest on the same day; and love supperseting those parts…[/quote]
And here I was thinking “supperseting” was laying the table for an evening meal. I really should pay attention in future.
These advanced techniques are developing far too fast for my addled brain to keep up with.