Worked Out for 4 Years, Still Skinny Fat

Training
61

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:
Everyone should calm down and stay friendly.

We are all here to learn and share knowledge.

While I 100% disagree with what Ryan is saying regarding diet, I don’t need to insult him.

Ryan, Sesumate is correct about sugar directly affecting insulin spikes. Taking in ice cream and poptarts all day is just silly. You really should only take in sugar when you need it…like directly after a workout for instance. Directly after a workout your muscles are screaming for glycogen replenishment, sugar is the answer to their screams. So yea, you could down some ice cream and poptarts immediately post workout as long as you add a solid source of protein. Personally I think I’d yack lol…instead I down 12 oz of Orange juice with two scooped of whey. But to each their own.

But honestly, take a look at all of the most successful pros’ diets…not seeing much junk food in there. They gotta be on to something right lol??? And of course they are on loads of gear, but that in noooooo way means they can eat whatever they want and achieve the same physiques. I can tell you that from personal experience Haha :wink:

Just some “food for thought”… I know I know, puns are horrible lol[/quote]

you dont see much junk food in people like IFBB pos diet simply because of food volume. the same concepts im talking about would still apply to them. but being 350 relativley lean in the of season imagine how hungry that man would be, thats the reason. dusty hanshaw was posting on the NBSB face book page a while back. he said i enjoy my soda and junk food alot, but being as big as he is he need alot more size and volume of is food. [/quote]

I agree that they are probably starving lol. And yea they can definately get away with eating junk more often than non-freaks.

I just don’t want average joes (such as the OP…) to read this thread and think that they can get away with ice cream and pizza etc on a regular basis and actually improve thier physiques lol.

62

[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:
Everyone should calm down and stay friendly.

We are all here to learn and share knowledge.

While I 100% disagree with what Ryan is saying regarding diet, I don’t need to insult him.

Ryan, Sesumate is correct about sugar directly affecting insulin spikes. Taking in ice cream and poptarts all day is just silly. You really should only take in sugar when you need it…like directly after a workout for instance. Directly after a workout your muscles are screaming for glycogen replenishment, sugar is the answer to their screams. So yea, you could down some ice cream and poptarts immediately post workout as long as you add a solid source of protein. Personally I think I’d yack lol…instead I down 12 oz of Orange juice with two scooped of whey. But to each their own.

But honestly, take a look at all of the most successful pros’ diets…not seeing much junk food in there. They gotta be on to something right lol??? And of course they are on loads of gear, but that in noooooo way means they can eat whatever they want and achieve the same physiques. I can tell you that from personal experience Haha :wink:

Just some “food for thought”… I know I know, puns are horrible lol[/quote]

you dont see much junk food in people like IFBB pos diet simply because of food volume. the same concepts im talking about would still apply to them. but being 350 relativley lean in the of season imagine how hungry that man would be, thats the reason. dusty hanshaw was posting on the NBSB face book page a while back. he said i enjoy my soda and junk food alot, but being as big as he is he need alot more size and volume of is food. [/quote]

I agree that they are probably starving lol. And yea they can definately get away with eating junk more often than non-freaks.

I just don’t want average joes (such as the OP…) to read this thread and think that they can get away with ice cream and pizza etc on a regular basis and actually improve thier physiques lol.
[/quote]

ummmm they can. here just have look at this, explains it better than i do.

IIFYM stands for if it fits your macros. in other word if you take you diet seriously and track you macros while keeping in mind micros (making sure you dont lack in vitamins and what not) then you can if you want fit all these kinds of foods into your diet. provided you dont exceed your macro intake for the day.

63

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:
Everyone should calm down and stay friendly.

We are all here to learn and share knowledge.

While I 100% disagree with what Ryan is saying regarding diet, I don’t need to insult him.

Ryan, Sesumate is correct about sugar directly affecting insulin spikes. Taking in ice cream and poptarts all day is just silly. You really should only take in sugar when you need it…like directly after a workout for instance. Directly after a workout your muscles are screaming for glycogen replenishment, sugar is the answer to their screams. So yea, you could down some ice cream and poptarts immediately post workout as long as you add a solid source of protein. Personally I think I’d yack lol…instead I down 12 oz of Orange juice with two scooped of whey. But to each their own.

But honestly, take a look at all of the most successful pros’ diets…not seeing much junk food in there. They gotta be on to something right lol??? And of course they are on loads of gear, but that in noooooo way means they can eat whatever they want and achieve the same physiques. I can tell you that from personal experience Haha :wink:

Just some “food for thought”… I know I know, puns are horrible lol[/quote]

you dont see much junk food in people like IFBB pos diet simply because of food volume. the same concepts im talking about would still apply to them. but being 350 relativley lean in the of season imagine how hungry that man would be, thats the reason. dusty hanshaw was posting on the NBSB face book page a while back. he said i enjoy my soda and junk food alot, but being as big as he is he need alot more size and volume of is food. [/quote]

I agree that they are probably starving lol. And yea they can definately get away with eating junk more often than non-freaks.

I just don’t want average joes (such as the OP…) to read this thread and think that they can get away with ice cream and pizza etc on a regular basis and actually improve thier physiques lol.
[/quote]

ummmm they can. here just have look at this, explains it better than i do.

IIFYM stands for if it fits your macros. in other word if you take you diet seriously and track you macros while keeping in mind micros (making sure you dont lack in vitamins and what not) then you can if you want fit all these kinds of foods into your diet. provided you dont exceed your macro intake for the day. [/quote]

All of these theories and formulas are fine and dandy…but it doesn’t mean its healthy.

I’m curious as to what your physique and diet is like?

Do you eat whatever you want?

64

[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:
Everyone should calm down and stay friendly.

We are all here to learn and share knowledge.

While I 100% disagree with what Ryan is saying regarding diet, I don’t need to insult him.

Ryan, Sesumate is correct about sugar directly affecting insulin spikes. Taking in ice cream and poptarts all day is just silly. You really should only take in sugar when you need it…like directly after a workout for instance. Directly after a workout your muscles are screaming for glycogen replenishment, sugar is the answer to their screams. So yea, you could down some ice cream and poptarts immediately post workout as long as you add a solid source of protein. Personally I think I’d yack lol…instead I down 12 oz of Orange juice with two scooped of whey. But to each their own.

But honestly, take a look at all of the most successful pros’ diets…not seeing much junk food in there. They gotta be on to something right lol??? And of course they are on loads of gear, but that in noooooo way means they can eat whatever they want and achieve the same physiques. I can tell you that from personal experience Haha :wink:

Just some “food for thought”… I know I know, puns are horrible lol[/quote]

you dont see much junk food in people like IFBB pos diet simply because of food volume. the same concepts im talking about would still apply to them. but being 350 relativley lean in the of season imagine how hungry that man would be, thats the reason. dusty hanshaw was posting on the NBSB face book page a while back. he said i enjoy my soda and junk food alot, but being as big as he is he need alot more size and volume of is food. [/quote]

I agree that they are probably starving lol. And yea they can definately get away with eating junk more often than non-freaks.

I just don’t want average joes (such as the OP…) to read this thread and think that they can get away with ice cream and pizza etc on a regular basis and actually improve thier physiques lol.
[/quote]

ummmm they can. here just have look at this, explains it better than i do.

IIFYM stands for if it fits your macros. in other word if you take you diet seriously and track you macros while keeping in mind micros (making sure you dont lack in vitamins and what not) then you can if you want fit all these kinds of foods into your diet. provided you dont exceed your macro intake for the day. [/quote]

All of these theories and formulas are fine and dandy…but it doesn’t mean its healthy.

I’m curious as to what your physique and diet is like?

Do you eat whatever you want?
[/quote]

my hpsique isnt as good as its previously been as have only recently started training again seriously but yes i follow the concepts of IIFYM.

65

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]ironmanzvw wrote:
Everyone should calm down and stay friendly.

We are all here to learn and share knowledge.

While I 100% disagree with what Ryan is saying regarding diet, I don’t need to insult him.

Ryan, Sesumate is correct about sugar directly affecting insulin spikes. Taking in ice cream and poptarts all day is just silly. You really should only take in sugar when you need it…like directly after a workout for instance. Directly after a workout your muscles are screaming for glycogen replenishment, sugar is the answer to their screams. So yea, you could down some ice cream and poptarts immediately post workout as long as you add a solid source of protein. Personally I think I’d yack lol…instead I down 12 oz of Orange juice with two scooped of whey. But to each their own.

But honestly, take a look at all of the most successful pros’ diets…not seeing much junk food in there. They gotta be on to something right lol??? And of course they are on loads of gear, but that in noooooo way means they can eat whatever they want and achieve the same physiques. I can tell you that from personal experience Haha :wink:

Just some “food for thought”… I know I know, puns are horrible lol[/quote]

you dont see much junk food in people like IFBB pos diet simply because of food volume. the same concepts im talking about would still apply to them. but being 350 relativley lean in the of season imagine how hungry that man would be, thats the reason. dusty hanshaw was posting on the NBSB face book page a while back. he said i enjoy my soda and junk food alot, but being as big as he is he need alot more size and volume of is food. [/quote]

I agree that they are probably starving lol. And yea they can definately get away with eating junk more often than non-freaks.

I just don’t want average joes (such as the OP…) to read this thread and think that they can get away with ice cream and pizza etc on a regular basis and actually improve thier physiques lol.
[/quote]

ummmm they can. here just have look at this, explains it better than i do.

IIFYM stands for if it fits your macros. in other word if you take you diet seriously and track you macros while keeping in mind micros (making sure you dont lack in vitamins and what not) then you can if you want fit all these kinds of foods into your diet. provided you dont exceed your macro intake for the day. [/quote]

All of these theories and formulas are fine and dandy…but it doesn’t mean its healthy.

I’m curious as to what your physique and diet is like?

Do you eat whatever you want?
[/quote]

my hpsique isnt as good as its previously been as have only recently started training again seriously but yes i follow the concepts of IIFYM. [/quote]

also specific foods do not determine a healty diet. if ones eats 400g of fat a day from “clean” foods is that healthy.

66

…

ryan is basically right about the GI being useless… assuming you aren’t eating the simple carbs by themselves…

however, im confident that the bodybuilders he is referencing only eat ice cream/donuts as a method of refeeding, skiploading-type thing to re-boost the metabolism (leptin and shit) during the last weeks of their contest prep periods of very low/no carb dieting… so it’s basically irrelavent

he is also right about 3-4 meals being just as good as 6

he is wrong about processed vs unprocessed however

and it’s stupid to apply anything that an IFBB pro does to anyone (diet-wise) who is not on similar amounts of aas, gh, and insulin

also:

whoever said that “whatever you eat when you are on juice turns to muscle (to a point)” is completely full of shit.

to the OP, i suggest that you get a blood panel and see where your hormone levels are at. TRT might not be such a bad idea, and will actually be good for you assuming your testosterone levels are low, despite what these retards are saying

also, try limiting your carbs to preworkout only, 100g or so 1-1.5 hours before, and increase your protein and fats

67

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
…

ryan is basically right about the GI being useless… assuming you aren’t eating the simple carbs by themselves…

however, im confident that the bodybuilders he is referencing only eat ice cream/donuts as a method of refeeding, skiploading-type thing to re-boost the metabolism (leptin and shit) during the last weeks of their contest prep periods of very low/no carb dieting… so it’s basically irrelavent

he is also right about 3-4 meals being just as good as 6

he is wrong about processed vs unprocessed however

and it’s stupid to apply anything that an IFBB pro does to anyone (diet-wise) who is not on similar amounts of aas, gh, and insulin

also:

whoever said that “whatever you eat when you are on juice turns to muscle (to a point)” is completely full of shit.

to the OP, i suggest that you get a blood panel and see where your hormone levels are at. TRT might not be such a bad idea, and will actually be good for you assuming your testosterone levels are low, despite what these retards are saying

also, try limiting your carbs to preworkout only, 100g or so 1-1.5 hours before, and increase your protein and fats [/quote]

no the bodybuilders i provided as examples eat these food pretty much whenever they fell like it provided it fit into there macros for any given day.

are you stupid or just not paying any attention to my posts i provided 3 examples of naty bodybuilders who yous these methods.

68
  1. Don’t eat anything with more than 5 ingredients
  2. Do 5/3/1 Triumvirate
  3. Chop wood everyday for 30-mins
69

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

are you stupid

naty bodybuilders who “yous” these methods. [/quote]

i know this isnt relavent to the discussion but it made me chuckle.

i feel as though you should do more research sir.

being a “natty” bodybuilder is basically a misnomer these days… i know numerous “natty” bodybuilders who use juice. I know they use it, because i help them pin.

70

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

are you stupid

naty bodybuilders who “yous” these methods. [/quote]

i know this isnt relavent to the discussion but it made me chuckle.

i feel as though you should do more research sir.

being a “natty” bodybuilder is basically a misnomer these days… i know numerous “natty” bodybuilders who use juice. I know they use it, because i help them pin.[/quote]

yes i agree not all are natty, not by a long shot. but considering they do compete in tested contest i couldt really think what else to call them.

71

[quote]Gilead101 wrote:
Hi there, I’m a 34 year old male and have been working out for four years with the aim of getting big however have practically nothing to show for it. Im 5ft 9, weigh 80 kilos (176 pounds) and am at 21% bodyfat. I’m basically the same weight I was when I started working out, only more toned and with less fat which isn’t very impressive :frowning:

My workouts currently consist of a 4 day split which I found on another site (with a couple of changes). I do the following:

Tuesday shoulders and calves

Dumbbell shoulder press (3x 6-8 reps) - currently at 20k each hand
Standing barbell press (3 x 8-10 reps) - currently at 35k
Dumbbell lat raises (3x 10-12 reps) currently at 9k each hand
Upright row (4x 8-10 reps) currently at 35 k
Seated calf (raise 6x12-15 reps) currently at 40k

Thursday chest and tri

Dumbbell chest press (4x6-8 reps - currently 34 k each side)
Incline dumbbell press (4x 6-8 reps- currently 30k each side)
Fly machine (4x 8-10)
Dips 4x 8-10 with 10k weight
Triceps barbell curl 4x 8-10 currently at 35k)

Saturday back and biceps

Row machine reverse grip 4x 6-8 (currently 57.5k)
Wide grip pull up - four sets to failure
Bent over dumbbell row 4x 8-10 reps (currently at 18k each hand)
Standing barbell curl 4x 8-10 reps (currently at 30k)
Alternate seated dumbbell curl (4x 8-10 - currently at 12k)

Sunday legs

Squat 4 x 8-10 reps (currently at 90k)
Seated leg press 3x 6-8 (currently about 220k)
Deadlift 3x 6-8 (currently about 70k but I struggle with technique)
Leg curl 3 x 6-8 (currently 65k)

In terms of diet, I was previously aiming for about 4000 calories and 300g of protein a day broadly as follows;

Breakfast: Porridge and Reflex Instant mass shake (400 calorie serving)
Morning snack: reflex instant mass shake
Lunch: chicken and pasta, piece of fruit
Afternoon snacks: 2 instant mass shakes
Evening meal: chicken + pasta
Before bed: bread and tuna - or something else to get the calories up to 4000.

Although I was putting on weight, most of it was fat so I’ve cut back on the calories, largely by replacing the mass shakes with whey protein which has lost me some fat, but also some muscle.

I’m currently now at a complete loss at to what I should do as no matter how much time, effort or money I invest, I make so little progress. I’m close to either deciding to try the steroid route, or just to give up full stop - but before doing so I thought I’d just post this message to see if anyone out there, particularly anyone who has overcome similar problems, has any suggestions on what I should do.Any advice would be much appreciated.

Many thanks in advance

Rob[/quote]

you don’t deadlift, you squat once a week, and your first two workouts hit the smallest muscle groups on your body with more volume than you hit legs and back all week. I’d start there

72

Again this point is directly related to the point diesel made about changing the split up to an upper/lower 4day a week setup. Work the mass of the body equally for a greater systemic and metabolic response, and who cares if it breaks traditional bbuilding wisdom. Flame on but damn it worked for me really well.

Got flamed like hell for telling a beginner who was weak to deadlift here but I stand by it because I remember what it did for me. The more mass u work at once(bigger multi-jont exercises) the more of an anabolic response u will get from your training thru the release of testosterone, gh, and IGF-1.

I completely agree that sugars at the right time are good as well. When I shock train the same bodypart 2-3x per day after the workouts and later that day Im so hungry and depleted that I will break out the ice cream o ya. Check out Poliquins hypertrophy bootcamp training, thatl make u earn your ice cream.

I need to b more specific, when frontloading equipoise at 150mg/ eod along with 75 mg fina eod/and sustanon 250 500mg/week up to a point u absolutely can TRIPLE your food intake with alot of junk and get leaner while doing it. Leave out the equipoise and fina and youd get fat as hell fast.

73

Good responses from everyone. Also, get your T levels checked

74

he’s eating pop tarts while dieting and some how has an amazing physique.

75

I want to be clear OP that this is exactly why I will never juice again, these drugs are too freaking powerful and make your body do very unnatural things so be wise and dont use them. Being a pin cushion sucks too, and nearly everyone at your level that juices usually ends up with a VERY serious injury because the mucles will gain strength soo much faster than the connective tissues and POP goes a tendon, and ul never be the same.Iv seen it man, dont do it. Strengthening the joints takes years of natural training, do that.

Proper training will get you all the results you need, and you must train hard. Devour all the info u can from the good coaches, theres plenty of training articles on this site.

Worst bbuilding advice I ever got was to always be sure that your not overtraining, the poor little brittle human body cant take too much boo hoo… Fuck that shit fuckin pussy advice, slowly increase taining volume over time and rock the big exercises with a passion while religiously keeping workouts under an hour and u will condition yourself over time.

Religiously record sets and reps uv done, quality of the workouts,eaing habits and weekly bodyweight and strength levels in your training journal and over time, you can review it and find all the clues u need to identify what works for you and what doesnt. Also beating the log of last workout is the ultimate motivation, and you know exactly what u have to do before you are there and must hold yourself accountable.

76

[quote]gregron wrote:
This thread is awesome.[/quote]

have to agree with you on that.
seems like every thread ends up being this brand of awesome now-days.

77

OP do not listen to sesumatse… he hasn’t got the slighest fraction of an iota of knowledge of what the fuck he is talking about when it comes to gear.

78

The whole poptart, ice cream thing is stupid. For someone who is trying to cut fat, it could be a slippery sloap. I find regardless if it fits macros, once you get it in ur head it ok to eat these types of foods, even in moderation, ur doomed!

Shelby Starnes is having nightmares somehwere with John Meadows making him eat poptarts & ice cream because of this thread!

Op has yet to chime in?

79

[quote]Chrispy61 wrote:
The whole poptart, ice cream thing is stupid. For someone who is trying to cut fat, it could be a slippery sloap. I find regardless if it fits macros, once you get it in ur head it ok to eat these types of foods, even in moderation, ur doomed!

Shelby Starnes is having nightmares somehwere with John Meadows making him eat poptarts & ice cream because of this thread!

Op has yet to chime in?[/quote]

it is ok to eat these foods in moderation. for fuck sake if someone cant eat these foods in moderation without wrecking there diet they got some problems.

80

[quote]Chrispy61 wrote:
The whole poptart, ice cream thing is stupid. For someone who is trying to cut fat, it could be a slippery sloap. [/quote]
A slippery what?