Work Life Balance: Advice from 30 Year Olds

Off Topic
21

[quote]Mr Stern wrote:

[quote]CargoCapable wrote:

[quote]Mr Stern wrote:
If you really value having a social life, friends and family then it’s probably best you don’t start your own business…[/quote]
I would disagree and say owning a business allows greater flexibility and balance than anything.

The key would be to open an enterprise with relatively low overhead and easily delegated tasks. Perhaps a sales brokerage or distributorship of some kind.

You will have to buckle down for a while no doubt but once you gain your footing, much of the pressure falls on employees.

If you’re moving some one else’s product, you don’t have to worry about production, operational responsibility is minimal and if you have a steady stream of clients you can squeeze for better and better profit margins.

Outsource your accounting to a CPA and you’re basically on the hook to keep your employees motivated and productive, which can be done with a weekly meeting and some incentives as well as a general presence often enough to keep them on their toes. Hell, you could post on T-Nation, read books and do what ever else in your office, leave at lunch or take long breaks, as long as they know you may be dropping in that’s all it takes. Plus performance metrics, basic management tools.

The next step would be to hire a competent manger to do the above, then just communicate with him. (so looking forward to this).

Now you aren’t tied at all. Pop in now and then, communicate with the manger about day to day shit via phone/email/webcam and empower him to make operational decisions with your blessing and you can run the show from anywhere in the world at any time.

Now you’re free to do what ever the fuck you want and have the income to do so. And in your twenties/early thirties.

Or open another office or business if you’re just ambitious. But it sounds like you’re not. So take a mediocre job with a cool title, earn a little above the national average, work for a company that offers vacation right off the bat and maybe a 9/80 schedule and call it awesome.

To echo above though, pay your dues, whether for someone else or yourself and reap greater financial and balance rewards after a few years and for the rest of your career.[/quote]

No, owning a successful business will allow that much sort after flexibility and balance. Everyone starts a business with the ideology of putting in a little bit of work and then backing out after a couple of years to have a self sustaining business from which they can expand or do what ever they want with. Yeah the idea is that you never have to retire because by the time you hit your 40s/50s you are doing exactly what you love so it’s no longer classed as work for you.

The plan you outlined is excellent and I’m sure pretty much everyone here would love to follow it’s blueprint, however things rarely run that smoothly. Of course I could be wrong and this is what you or your friends have done and are reaping the rewards. If so congratulations to you, you have my respect.

I’m just saying business is all about risk management. Taking risks in areas where others have decided against it or just haven’t seen the opportunities. If you find an area of high demand then excellent you can make a lot of money. Just remember things are constantly changing; a similar but much bigger company may open next door and undercut you significantly or you may loose a major client through a change in management or policy.

Things change and a lot of money is made or lost and if someone more experienced or hungrier than you is at the table then they will most likely clean your plate for you. There are times when you have to put your business above everything else and if your friends or family cannot understand this then you are in trouble. If you cannot handle the stress of things not going so well then definitely become an employee (preferably on a set hourly rate) and enjoy life.
[/quote]
There certainly is an element of risk in business ownership and yes, the initial building phase is a heavy burden and I am speaking from experience. Nobody wants to buy in to your idea until you’ve already given it legs that they can stand on too (and in many cases feel entitled to take for granted, no help from Obama telling me I didn’t build my business…)

Things do change, clients leave, competition moves in…

But, if you have a solid plan in place then you, too, are moving in and stealing clients from someone else. A monopoly is simply not possible.

Changes as far as products vary in importance. A technical product, such as a laptop to perhaps offshore oil extraction equipment would require ongoing market research, manufacturing adjustments and continuous industry jockeying to demonstrate relevance no doubt.

But, again, a low overhead business with minimal production (product creation) responsibility doesn’t typically have these issues, like a sales brokerage or distributor. You are buying wholesale from manufacturers who take on the issues you mention and simply moving products for them.

The set of problems with this type of business are more along the lines extensive competition thanks to relative ease of market entry, but, an aggressive sales force will be building new clients even if they occassionally lose some too. You can often negotiate protected territory rights as a distributor for manufacturers too and there are a plethora of other ways to mitigate risk.

Having a solid business plan that accounts for risk with contingency plans in place and then carrying out your initiatives through a competent staff with empowered management allows a business to sail the seas of the free market, allowing the owner a back seat ride, be it an individual or group in a private business or stockholders of a publicly traded company.

I’m guessing you hold ownership in public companies and have no say in management processes at all, but you pick a team of competent management and invest in their initiatives in your investment and retirement portfolios every day. Your stock values rise and fall, sure, but over time steadily increase in value, paying out dividends (or re-investing) as you go.

And yes, as a private owner of a sole company your vested interest is much greater but once you’ve given your enterprise legs, the scenario isn’t a whole lot different.

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I would suggest looking into working for a non-profit. I’m currently working at one myself and the work life balance here is very nice. It’s actually the best benefit they offer and their benefits are pretty good. Don’t expect to make a ton of money, any bonus/profit sharing, or overtime. That’s one of the trade offs.

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[quote]thethirdruffian wrote:

[quote]Mondy wrote:
I’m about to graduate in a year so right now I’m looking into jobs. As part of my screening criteria, I place a lot of emphasis on work life balance. [/quote]

Sorry, you have to earn the right for “work life balance.” If lucky, and sucessful, you can have some in your late 30s.

I’ve seen this with so many engineers that are my age or younger. (I happen to be an employer, so I feel like a member of the older generation.)

Soft, useless, fucks just out of college talk about “work life balance.” That transaltes to me (as an employer) "I’m a lazy fuck who is punching a clock and won’t there to help when it is “bust your ass time”

As a result, I actively seek out people who served in combat arms positions in the Army or Marines or some of the elite Navy positions. They actualy have the fucking spine to do what needs to be done when the time comes.[/quote]

This. Anything other than “I can get the job done” is not the right answer. If you can’t do everything that I need you to do then why would I hire you?

Work/life balance, coming from an interview candidate, would make me cringe and I would most likely not hire that individual. What I hear when you said that is: I’m lazy and am not willing to go the extra mile for the company. You cannot count on me. I only do the minimal amount of work that I can get away with.

Age: 37
Former Occupation: Accounting/Cash Office
Married with one child already and one due in six weeks

More so answering your original questions, I would spend my younger years establishing myself, making money and saving it. It is much easier to do these things before a family enters the picture. In my 20’s, there was no balance. I worked hard and did what I had to and embraced every opportunity to learn something or network or advance myself. Currently, I’m in my 30’s and am able to stay at home because my husband works hard at a family business and does well enough that we have the freedom now to do that.

No, I do not regret spending time in my youth chasing money. If anything, I see ways that I could have worked harder and accomplished more than I did.

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I just recently graduated and am now working a job so here’s an idea of what to expect. This is ideal I’m assuming since my job is awesome and I make a ton of money for my age.

Age: 23
Industry: Electrical Engineer - Power/Public Utility (Non-profit member owned)
Hours per week: 40 hours, no more, no less.

I just graduated in June and got a job in Idaho. Aside from work, I have nothing to do. I moved from Oregon, so I don’t really know anybody here. This means when I’m not at work, I have a lot of time to train. Balls to the wall training and proper nutrition has become my second job for the time being, because I know I will get more busy in the future. I’m starting to get into investing, which will give me something to occupy some time and also to grow my wealth. Don’t blow all your paychecks on toys and shit you don’t need because you will want that money to grow into more money in the future.

Working is very different from school(a hell of a lot easier and less time consuming for me).

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Think about becoming a skilled worker or learning a trade. Electrical, steam/pipe fitting, plumbing, mechanical, HVAC, etc… I did a union electrical apprenticeship where I was PAID to go to school for five years. It’s a skill you can take anywhere.

I left the industry for a while to pursue a career in mortgage, but that didn’t work out so well for me so I went back to electrical work. I was able to cross over into the oil and gas industry while I waited for the book to clear and I was finally able to move back home to VA a few weeks ago. So a journeyman electrician in the DC area makes a little over 88K a year just working 40 hours a week. There is also $4 an hour put into an annuity that you control, health insurance for you and your family above and beyond your paycheck is taken care of and on top of that, the pension kicks ass. I get paid a little more than that because I am a foreman, so I’m making mid 90’s on just 40 hours a week. Skilled labor is NOT a bad option in this day and age.

Most other skilled trades will pay a similar scale to what I’ve mentioned and honestly, the work isn’t THAT hard. You can often specialize in certain areas and command a higher salary (like I did) and work less. If you’re interested in “quality of life”, the union rules are VERY specific about not working more than certain hours, ensuring that you are given specific break times and equality of pay. It’s not a bad deal - especially if you tend to be lazy and want a good retirement.

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I’ve tried to go from social services in trade skills several times but none of hte classes I’ve signed up for the local juco that does votech have made. Pisses me off. I want to get back to working with my hands but digging ditches doesn’t pay shit.

One thing to consider is how emotionally stressful your job is/isn’t. 50 hours I can mostly leave at the office and not worry about beats 40 hours that has me sweating and worrying the rest of the time.

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I’m a paid EMT, volunteer fire fighter, do contruction, move furniture, lawn care, and uh, other gainful employment on the side. On average I work 80-100+ hours a week, sometimes on 4-5 hours of sleep a night. I feel far better than I did when I had an easy office job, plenty of leasure time, etc. Your body was made for work, fuck all that new age hippy shit.

The only thing is my weight training schedule is sporatic at best. But I’m more or less getting in three training sessions a week, and making progress here and there so I’m not complaining. I’m working on moving some of my hobbies from just for fun to making some income so I can drop some of my jobs.

My advice to you would be focus on making money and staying busy. Time sucks when you don’t have the money to do anything. Volunteering is great, if you can find something you love.

29

Something that you need to answer for yourself is what do you want out of life? If you want to make a bunch of money and become filthy rich, your actions should reflect that goal. Namely, you will have to work really, really hard and forgo a lot of fun and pleasurable activities that most young people indulge in and work towards that goal. If your goal is to make a reasonable amount of money and have enough free time to participate in leisure activities, then you should figure out what your monetary and temporal needs are and work out a plan to meet those needs. If you have expensive tastes, you will either need a job with a high salary, or an hourly job and work enough hours to meet your financial needs. As a recent graduate, you will be expected to put in a lot of hours at first, which is a good idea anyway. Most people spend money in their spare time, so if you fill your spare time with activities that will make you money and prevent you from spending money you will be better off.

If, however, you are like me and your work is your life and you enjoy it more then any leisure activity then you probably would not be posting questions like this on the internet so follow the guidelines I outlined above and you will do fine. As for me, Physics is my calling in life and it is what I like to spend most of my time doing. Everything else is secondary. My fiance is the same way with her field and it is why we are great together.

There are times, like in the past few weeks, where I have been so engrossed in my work that I put in 100+ hours a week and do not even notice it. This is what the past few weeks have been like for me and why I have not been posting a whole lot.

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[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Think about becoming a skilled worker or learning a trade. Electrical, steam/pipe fitting, plumbing, mechanical, HVAC, etc… I did a union electrical apprenticeship where I was PAID to go to school for five years. It’s a skill you can take anywhere.

I left the industry for a while to pursue a career in mortgage, but that didn’t work out so well for me so I went back to electrical work. I was able to cross over into the oil and gas industry while I waited for the book to clear and I was finally able to move back home to VA a few weeks ago. So a journeyman electrician in the DC area makes a little over 88K a year just working 40 hours a week. There is also $4 an hour put into an annuity that you control, health insurance for you and your family above and beyond your paycheck is taken care of and on top of that, the pension kicks ass. I get paid a little more than that because I am a foreman, so I’m making mid 90’s on just 40 hours a week. Skilled labor is NOT a bad option in this day and age.

Most other skilled trades will pay a similar scale to what I’ve mentioned and honestly, the work isn’t THAT hard. You can often specialize in certain areas and command a higher salary (like I did) and work less. If you’re interested in “quality of life”, the union rules are VERY specific about not working more than certain hours, ensuring that you are given specific break times and equality of pay. It’s not a bad deal - especially if you tend to be lazy and want a good retirement. [/quote]

Damn AC you didnt let us know you left the off shore work. Glad to hear everything going well.

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Lots of good advice here already. I have to agree with thethirdruffian that you’re pretty young to already be worried about life/work balance. As long as you enjoy what you do, you’ll be happy no matter how much money you make or how much social time you have. When I was young, I worked jobs that paid nothing and I worked so many hours I had no social life, but I didn’t feel like I was working, because I enjoyed what I was doing. Here are some of my own insights:

  1. Nothing wrong with making a lot of money while you are young. As long as you don’t blow it, it will give you a lot of freedom later in life and will allow you more flexibility in your choices.

  2. Gotta agree with angry chicken–learning a trade is a great way to go. If that’s not your thing, then I would say, take advantage of every opportunity to learn more, no matter what your profession. You can’t go wrong by always being at the forefront of your industry.

  3. Don’t worry about making the perfect choice now–there isn’t one. Your perspective will change dramatically as you go through life. Marriage, children, aging parents, economic circumstances, passing of friends or relatives: these will have a tremendous impact on what’s important to you.

  4. Finally, I can’t say enough about owning your own business. Owning a business gives you advantages that no other profession can come close to. But to each his own–it’s not for everyone.

Good luck

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Plant Manager at a manufacturing plant. I’m only 29 but to answer question #2, I don’t regret “chasing money” in my 20s. I do however regret not addressing my relationship with money then as I blew a lot of cash on stupid material shit that didn’t even matter to me at the time or at any time. Read any book on personal finance, they all have the same message and the same information.

Make sure you control your money and not the other way around and you will never have to worry about money ever again no matter your financial situation.

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[quote]i_am_ketosis wrote:
Plant Manager at a manufacturing plant. I’m only 29 but to answer question #2, I don’t regret “chasing money” in my 20s. I do however regret not addressing my relationship with money then as I blew a lot of cash on stupid material shit that didn’t even matter to me at the time or at any time. Read any book on personal finance, they all have the same message and the same information.

Make sure you control your money and not the other way around and you will never have to worry about money ever again no matter your financial situation.

[/quote]

That’s good advice. I’m currently reading the book Rich Dad, Poor Dad and it is a very fascinating view on money and differences between what rich do with their money vs poor.

You have any more specific financial advice? I’m only 23 with a high paying job so I’m trying to figure out how to use my money wisely.

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[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:

[quote]i_am_ketosis wrote:
Plant Manager at a manufacturing plant. I’m only 29 but to answer question #2, I don’t regret “chasing money” in my 20s. I do however regret not addressing my relationship with money then as I blew a lot of cash on stupid material shit that didn’t even matter to me at the time or at any time. Read any book on personal finance, they all have the same message and the same information.

Make sure you control your money and not the other way around and you will never have to worry about money ever again no matter your financial situation.

[/quote]

You have any more specific financial advice? I’m only 23 with a high paying job so I’m trying to figure out how to use my money wisely.[/quote]

Dont get married and have a shit ton of kids is #1
Buy a house instead of a $50,000 car
Start a retirement fund/IRA whatever out of your paycheck, put that money in and forget about it.

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[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:

[quote]i_am_ketosis wrote:
Plant Manager at a manufacturing plant. I’m only 29 but to answer question #2, I don’t regret “chasing money” in my 20s. I do however regret not addressing my relationship with money then as I blew a lot of cash on stupid material shit that didn’t even matter to me at the time or at any time. Read any book on personal finance, they all have the same message and the same information.

Make sure you control your money and not the other way around and you will never have to worry about money ever again no matter your financial situation.

[/quote]

You have any more specific financial advice? I’m only 23 with a high paying job so I’m trying to figure out how to use my money wisely.[/quote]

Dont get married and have a shit ton of kids is #1
Buy a house instead of a $50,000 car
Start a retirement fund/IRA whatever out of your paycheck, put that money in and forget about it. [/quote]

Simple enough. I’m already paying into my 401k what my company will match. Have you done any investing? Im starting to get into stocks atm, but am looking at mutual funds, bonds, etc. too.

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[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:

[quote]i_am_ketosis wrote:
Plant Manager at a manufacturing plant. I’m only 29 but to answer question #2, I don’t regret “chasing money” in my 20s. I do however regret not addressing my relationship with money then as I blew a lot of cash on stupid material shit that didn’t even matter to me at the time or at any time. Read any book on personal finance, they all have the same message and the same information.

Make sure you control your money and not the other way around and you will never have to worry about money ever again no matter your financial situation.

[/quote]

That’s good advice. I’m currently reading the book Rich Dad, Poor Dad and it is a very fascinating view on money and differences between what rich do with their money vs poor.

You have any more specific financial advice? I’m only 23 with a high paying job so I’m trying to figure out how to use my money wisely.[/quote]

Rich Dad, Poor Dad is probably one of the best books anyone can read about money. It goes into the psychology of how people deal with money, which is where you make it or break it in my opinion.

One of the most simple principles that people can follow and is also one of the most effective is pay yourself first. That means you pay yourself, before you pay the bank for your car loan, before you pay your rent/mortgage, before you pay the bar for a round of beers for you and your friends. Paying yourself first gets you to realize the difference between your money, and the money that you have chosen to give(spend)to business and people, because there is a difference. If you can swing it, pay yourself 50% or more of your paycheck.

Also, decide what’s important to you. People are constantly tempted to spend money on bullshit they don’t even want. Is it important to you to have a nice car, or something that gets you from point a to point b? Do you need an iphone? Or is any phone ok? Only you can make those decisions, but make sure it’s what you really want.

There was a time I spent thousands of dollars on a motorcycle I almost never rode. I love motorcycles, but the truth is it was a financial abyss, and the only thing that gave me any pleasure was buying and installing aftermarket parts on it. I’d get just as much pleasure re-jetting the neighbor’s lawn mower carb for them. Not only that, but they’d usually want to swing $20 my way for my troubles(pleasure).

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[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:

[quote]i_am_ketosis wrote:
Plant Manager at a manufacturing plant. I’m only 29 but to answer question #2, I don’t regret “chasing money” in my 20s. I do however regret not addressing my relationship with money then as I blew a lot of cash on stupid material shit that didn’t even matter to me at the time or at any time. Read any book on personal finance, they all have the same message and the same information.

Make sure you control your money and not the other way around and you will never have to worry about money ever again no matter your financial situation.

[/quote]

You have any more specific financial advice? I’m only 23 with a high paying job so I’m trying to figure out how to use my money wisely.[/quote]

Dont get married and have a shit ton of kids is #1
Buy a house instead of a $50,000 car
Start a retirement fund/IRA whatever out of your paycheck, put that money in and forget about it. [/quote]

Simple enough. I’m already paying into my 401k what my company will match. Have you done any investing? Im starting to get into stocks atm, but am looking at mutual funds, bonds, etc. too.
[/quote]

Not my area, I am sure someone will throw that out here. The wife and I have 3 IRA’s that we invest into and at 39 years old I have many, many years of working.

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[quote]i_am_ketosis wrote:

[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:

[quote]i_am_ketosis wrote:
Plant Manager at a manufacturing plant. I’m only 29 but to answer question #2, I don’t regret “chasing money” in my 20s. I do however regret not addressing my relationship with money then as I blew a lot of cash on stupid material shit that didn’t even matter to me at the time or at any time. Read any book on personal finance, they all have the same message and the same information.

Make sure you control your money and not the other way around and you will never have to worry about money ever again no matter your financial situation. [/quote]

You have any more specific financial advice? I’m only 23 with a high paying job so I’m trying to figure out how to use my money wisely.[/quote]

Also, decide what’s important to you. People are constantly tempted to spend money on bullshit they don’t even want. Is it important to you to have a nice car, or something that gets you from point a to point b? Do you need an iphone? Or is any phone ok? Only you can make those decisions, but make sure it’s what you really want.

[…]

There was a time I spent thousands of dollars on a motorcycle I almost never rode. I love motorcycles, but the truth is it was a financial abyss, and the only thing that gave me any pleasure was buying and installing aftermarket parts on it. I’d get just as much pleasure re-jetting the neighbor’s lawn mower carb for them. Not only that, but they’d usually want to swing $20 my way for my troubles(pleasure).[/quote]

(As an aside, it actually WAS important I got an iphone. User interface design is part of my job, and the iphone was the premier usability model when I got this phone. Needless to say I “borrowed” a few ideas from it in my own work.)

One of the better ways to determine whether you really want something is to actually hold out until you can buy it with cash. I’ve noticed if you finance something, you miss the critical psychological evaluation of “is this really something I want? is this really worth it?”

By keeping an eye for quality and being specific about what you want, you avoid buying a lot of halfway measures that are kind of sort of but not really what you want. If you want a nice 55" TV, don’t just buy a 42" TV now “because you can afford it”. You’re going to spend more buying something you don’t really want and then spend that money again buying what you actually want. (Also, if you’re ever out of a job or short on cash, you still have all the nice stuff and can maintain a similar quality of home-life, since everything’s paid for.)

The second main aspect of actually waiting until you are willing to pay cash is that it gives you the opportunity to step back and shop around for the best price. Sure, the thing I want might cost $5000 at most places, but I don’t see any reason to spend that if I can do some research and find it cheaper somewhere else. Same product, lower price. Once you identify exactly what you want, that process becomes much easier. Plus, if you’ve been saving the cash, you can jump on those rare opportunities for a really great deal (like an otherwise perfect 55" TV that someone returned because it had a tiny scratch on it).

And by doing this, I’ve ended up with fewer, nicer things that I actually appreciate and care about. Only in a few cases (where I knowingly made the choice) do I regret having wasted money on crap I don’t really care about.

I don’t really mean that you “can” pay cash. Rather, that you’re willing to pay cash, in light of all the other stuff you’re doing. Self-imposed rules like “I’m not going to buy a car that’s costs more than 1/3rd of my net worth”. If you want a nicer car, increase your net worth. Stuff like that.

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Also, mint.com is awesome. One of the best ways to cut through the crap and show you how well you’re doing at managing your cash flow and net worth.

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[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:
Start a retirement fund/IRA whatever out of your paycheck, put that money in and forget about it. [/quote]

Simple enough. I’m already paying into my 401k what my company will match. Have you done any investing? Im starting to get into stocks atm, but am looking at mutual funds, bonds, etc. too.
[/quote]

Look into gold and silver. The marketing side of things says “gold is safe”, but don’t buy into that line. Just look at it like any investment. Try to reverse that and understand the idea that “keeping your money in the form of US Dollars isn’t safe”.

It’s also worth wrapping your head around how the foreign exchange markets work, even if you never end up doing it. Once you understand how you can “make” money by converting dollars to euros to dollars to euros and back to dollars, a lot of things make more sense.