Women's Right to Abortion?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
101

[quote]orion wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
I view this with the thoughts of the woman first, the fetus second.

Right, this is what we keep hearing. The woman gets to murder because the unborn human is in the womb. The philosophical reason why murder is acceptable are never given, it’s just “in the mother.”

The philosophical reason why it is “murder” is also never given, therefore no one needs to defend against that accusation.

murder:

Murder is the unlawful killing of another human person with malice aforethought, as defined in Common Law countries. Murder is generally distinguished from other forms of homicide by the elements of malice aforethought and the lack of lawful justification.

See, abortion is not murder.

Murder is a legal definition and as such up for debate.
[/quote]

I actually gave one in the last thread. You just ignored it.

The dichotomy the abortionists have created between the human life and the human person is very recent.

102

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
orion wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
I view this with the thoughts of the woman first, the fetus second.

Right, this is what we keep hearing. The woman gets to murder because the unborn human is in the womb. The philosophical reason why murder is acceptable are never given, it’s just “in the mother.”

The philosophical reason why it is “murder” is also never given, therefore no one needs to defend against that accusation.

murder:

Murder is the unlawful killing of another human person with malice aforethought, as defined in Common Law countries. Murder is generally distinguished from other forms of homicide by the elements of malice aforethought and the lack of lawful justification.

See, abortion is not murder.

Murder is a legal definition and as such up for debate.

I actually gave one in the last thread. You just ignored it.

The dichotomy the abortionists have created between the human life and the human person is very recent. [/quote]

First it is not a matter of how you define murder but of how the law defines it and then that dichotomy is as old as human civilization.

Slaves were not persons, women were not persons, killing foreigners was not murder, and so further and so on.

103

This is probably why abortion is best left in the hands of the courts because I don’t see a universal answer.

I don’t like the thought of it used as birth control, but I abhor the thought of it being illegal.

104

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

This is probably why abortion is best left in the hands of the people because I don’t see a universal answer.

I don’t like the thought of it used as birth control, but I abhor the thought of it being illegal.

[/quote]

Fixed it for you.

If you cannot come up with a universal answer, at least then, if only then, let people rule themselves

105

[quote]orion wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:

This is probably why abortion is best left in the hands of the people because I don’t see a universal answer.

I don’t like the thought of it used as birth control, but I abhor the thought of it being illegal.

Fixed it for you.

If you cannot come up with a universal answer, at least then, if only then, let people rule themselves[/quote]

no no… please don’t do that

I meant what I typed

there is a book called, “The Tyranny of the Majority.”

what if you are not part of the majority? It doesn’t mean the decision is right, it just means it is what the majority are forcing on the minority.

so… I get what you mean, but I meant what I typed about the courts

106

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
orion wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:

This is probably why abortion is best left in the hands of the people because I don’t see a universal answer.

I don’t like the thought of it used as birth control, but I abhor the thought of it being illegal.

Fixed it for you.

If you cannot come up with a universal answer, at least then, if only then, let people rule themselves

no no… please don’t do that

I meant what I typed

there is a book called, “The Tyranny of the Majority.”

what if you are not part of the majority? It doesn’t mean the decision is right, it just means it is what the majority are forcing on the minority.

so… I get what you mean, but I meant what I typed about the courts

[/quote]

See that is really sad, I wrote “people” and you read “government”.

I meant that the actual people should make that decision.

Each and everyone of them should govern themselves and find a solution to live with for the rest of their lifes.

107

[quote]orion wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
orion wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:

This is probably why abortion is best left in the hands of the people because I don’t see a universal answer.

I don’t like the thought of it used as birth control, but I abhor the thought of it being illegal.

Fixed it for you.

If you cannot come up with a universal answer, at least then, if only then, let people rule themselves

no no… please don’t do that

I meant what I typed

there is a book called, “The Tyranny of the Majority.”

what if you are not part of the majority? It doesn’t mean the decision is right, it just means it is what the majority are forcing on the minority.

so… I get what you mean, but I meant what I typed about the courts

See that is really sad, I wrote “people” and you read “government”.

I meant that the actual people should make that decision.

Each and everyone of them should govern themselves and find a solution to live with for the rest of their lifes.

[/quote]

yes I did read it as people voting, as now it has been decided by the courts.

so … I am confused though. I do think folks should have individual freedoms

in regards to this issue do you mean that it should not be something decided by the courts but that each person should be free to make the decision for themselves?

If that is what you meant, then yes I do agree with you

but now that it has become a court issue, I don’t see how it will ever get out of the court system

do you know how that can happen?

108

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
orion wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
orion wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:

This is probably why abortion is best left in the hands of the people because I don’t see a universal answer.

I don’t like the thought of it used as birth control, but I abhor the thought of it being illegal.

Fixed it for you.

If you cannot come up with a universal answer, at least then, if only then, let people rule themselves

no no… please don’t do that

I meant what I typed

there is a book called, “The Tyranny of the Majority.”

what if you are not part of the majority? It doesn’t mean the decision is right, it just means it is what the majority are forcing on the minority.

so… I get what you mean, but I meant what I typed about the courts

See that is really sad, I wrote “people” and you read “government”.

I meant that the actual people should make that decision.

Each and everyone of them should govern themselves and find a solution to live with for the rest of their lifes.

yes I did read it as people voting, as now it has been decided by the courts.

so … I am confused though. I do think folks should have individual freedoms

in regards to this issue do you mean that it should not be something decided by the courts but that each person should be free to make the decision for themselves?

If that is what you meant, then yes I do agree with you

but now that it has become a court issue, I don’t see how it will ever get out of the court system

do you know how that can happen?

[/quote]

America stumbles into such a deep recession that people focus on necessities and not on trivial entertainment like spreading their world view with the sword?

edit: and no, that was not in any way intended to include Iraq.

Seriously.

Its probably still one of said situations.

109

[quote]orion wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
orion wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
orion wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:

This is probably why abortion is best left in the hands of the people because I don’t see a universal answer.

I don’t like the thought of it used as birth control, but I abhor the thought of it being illegal.

Fixed it for you.

If you cannot come up with a universal answer, at least then, if only then, let people rule themselves

no no… please don’t do that

I meant what I typed

there is a book called, “The Tyranny of the Majority.”

what if you are not part of the majority? It doesn’t mean the decision is right, it just means it is what the majority are forcing on the minority.

so… I get what you mean, but I meant what I typed about the courts

See that is really sad, I wrote “people” and you read “government”.

I meant that the actual people should make that decision.

Each and everyone of them should govern themselves and find a solution to live with for the rest of their lifes.

yes I did read it as people voting, as now it has been decided by the courts.

so … I am confused though. I do think folks should have individual freedoms

in regards to this issue do you mean that it should not be something decided by the courts but that each person should be free to make the decision for themselves?

If that is what you meant, then yes I do agree with you

but now that it has become a court issue, I don’t see how it will ever get out of the court system

do you know how that can happen?

America stumbles into such a deep recession that people focus on necessities and not on trivial entertainment like spreading their world view with the sword?

edit: and no, that was not in any way intended to include Iraq.

Seriously.

Its probably still one of said situations.
[/quote]

I have no idea what you were trying to say.

110

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
orion wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
orion wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
orion wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:

This is probably why abortion is best left in the hands of the people because I don’t see a universal answer.

I don’t like the thought of it used as birth control, but I abhor the thought of it being illegal.

Fixed it for you.

If you cannot come up with a universal answer, at least then, if only then, let people rule themselves

no no… please don’t do that

I meant what I typed

there is a book called, “The Tyranny of the Majority.”

what if you are not part of the majority? It doesn’t mean the decision is right, it just means it is what the majority are forcing on the minority.

so… I get what you mean, but I meant what I typed about the courts

See that is really sad, I wrote “people” and you read “government”.

I meant that the actual people should make that decision.

Each and everyone of them should govern themselves and find a solution to live with for the rest of their lifes.

yes I did read it as people voting, as now it has been decided by the courts.

so … I am confused though. I do think folks should have individual freedoms

in regards to this issue do you mean that it should not be something decided by the courts but that each person should be free to make the decision for themselves?

If that is what you meant, then yes I do agree with you

but now that it has become a court issue, I don’t see how it will ever get out of the court system

do you know how that can happen?

America stumbles into such a deep recession that people focus on necessities and not on trivial entertainment like spreading their world view with the sword?

edit: and no, that was not in any way intended to include Iraq.

Seriously.

Its probably still one of said situations.

I have no idea what you were trying to say.

[/quote]

That as long as people try to force other people at gunpoint, using the government, to agree on what or who to eat, drink, smoke, fuck or marry they all have way to few real problems.

My cure would be, and that would include most Europeans also, to make them dig for potatoes until they have not only dirt but blood under their fingernails because they need to feed their family and themselves.

Maybe that will teach people to leave each other the fuck alone and that self government means something entirely different than voting for a government that takes care of you.

Meaning:

I don´t know about abortion, I have a hard enough time answering that question for myself, let alone for you.

When will the American people ever learn?

When they have experienced real suffering.

111

[quote]orion wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
orion wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
orion wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
orion wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:

This is probably why abortion is best left in the hands of the people because I don’t see a universal answer.

I don’t like the thought of it used as birth control, but I abhor the thought of it being illegal.

Fixed it for you.

If you cannot come up with a universal answer, at least then, if only then, let people rule themselves

no no… please don’t do that

I meant what I typed

there is a book called, “The Tyranny of the Majority.”

what if you are not part of the majority? It doesn’t mean the decision is right, it just means it is what the majority are forcing on the minority.

so… I get what you mean, but I meant what I typed about the courts

See that is really sad, I wrote “people” and you read “government”.

I meant that the actual people should make that decision.

Each and everyone of them should govern themselves and find a solution to live with for the rest of their lifes.

yes I did read it as people voting, as now it has been decided by the courts.

so … I am confused though. I do think folks should have individual freedoms

in regards to this issue do you mean that it should not be something decided by the courts but that each person should be free to make the decision for themselves?

If that is what you meant, then yes I do agree with you

but now that it has become a court issue, I don’t see how it will ever get out of the court system

do you know how that can happen?

America stumbles into such a deep recession that people focus on necessities and not on trivial entertainment like spreading their world view with the sword?

edit: and no, that was not in any way intended to include Iraq.

Seriously.

Its probably still one of said situations.

I have no idea what you were trying to say.

That as long as people try to force other people at gunpoint, using the government, to agree on what or who to eat, drink, smoke, fuck or marry they all have way to few real problems.

My cure would be, and that would include most Europeans also, to make them dig for potatoes until they have not only dirt but blood under their fingernails because they need to feed their family and themselves.

Maybe that will teach people to leave each other the fuck alone and that self government means something entirely different than voting for a government that takes care of you.

Meaning:

I don´t know about abortion, I have a hard enough time answering that question for myself, let alone for you.

When will the American people ever learn?

When they have experienced real suffering.

[/quote]

I dunno… why do you turn every thread into how you want to change America? How you want America to suffer, how America is a this or a that.

so why are you on this thread? besides wanting America to suffer and change.

112

[quote]orion wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
orion wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
I view this with the thoughts of the woman first, the fetus second.

Right, this is what we keep hearing. The woman gets to murder because the unborn human is in the womb. The philosophical reason why murder is acceptable are never given, it’s just “in the mother.”

The philosophical reason why it is “murder” is also never given, therefore no one needs to defend against that accusation.

murder:

Murder is the unlawful killing of another human person with malice aforethought, as defined in Common Law countries. Murder is generally distinguished from other forms of homicide by the elements of malice aforethought and the lack of lawful justification.

See, abortion is not murder.

Murder is a legal definition and as such up for debate.

I actually gave one in the last thread. You just ignored it.

The dichotomy the abortionists have created between the human life and the human person is very recent.

First it is not a matter of how you define murder but of how the law defines it and then that dichotomy is as old as human civilization.

Slaves were not persons, women were not persons, killing foreigners was not murder, and so further and so on.

[/quote]

Yes, but we’re not talking about what “is” or what “was” but what “ought.”

113

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
orion wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
orion wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
I view this with the thoughts of the woman first, the fetus second.

Right, this is what we keep hearing. The woman gets to murder because the unborn human is in the womb. The philosophical reason why murder is acceptable are never given, it’s just “in the mother.”

The philosophical reason why it is “murder” is also never given, therefore no one needs to defend against that accusation.

murder:

Murder is the unlawful killing of another human person with malice aforethought, as defined in Common Law countries. Murder is generally distinguished from other forms of homicide by the elements of malice aforethought and the lack of lawful justification.

See, abortion is not murder.

Murder is a legal definition and as such up for debate.

I actually gave one in the last thread. You just ignored it.

The dichotomy the abortionists have created between the human life and the human person is very recent.

First it is not a matter of how you define murder but of how the law defines it and then that dichotomy is as old as human civilization.

Slaves were not persons, women were not persons, killing foreigners was not murder, and so further and so on.

Yes, but we’re not talking about what “is” or what “was” but what “ought.”
[/quote]

But what is and what was represents the what oughts of their times.

How could you not entertain the possibility that you are wrong?

Don´t you have a great enough role shouldering your own decisions, must you decide for everbody else?

114

[quote]But what is and what was represents the what oughts of their times.

[/quote]

That’s the same thing as saying that there are no oughts at all. “Well, I should do this, but it’s subject to change with the times, so then again, maybe I won’t do it.”

115

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
But what is and what was represents the what oughts of their times.

That’s the same thing as saying that there are no oughts at all. “Well, I should do this, but it’s subject to change with the times, so then again, maybe I won’t do it.” [/quote]

I am just saying, how can you be so sure to have found the way, the truth and the light that you seriously entertain to force people to conform to your ideas at gunpoint.

116

[quote]orion wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
But what is and what was represents the what oughts of their times.

That’s the same thing as saying that there are no oughts at all. “Well, I should do this, but it’s subject to change with the times, so then again, maybe I won’t do it.”

I am just saying, how can you be so sure to have found the way, the truth and the light that you seriously entertain to force people to conform to your ideas at gunpoint.[/quote]

No one here is disagreeing that murder is wrong, are they? Am I holding anyone up at gunpoint? Deal with what I’ve said, will you?

117

[quote]Mick28 wrote:
They are obviously taking part in the conception, so they have partial responsibility. [/quote]

No they don’t. You just said it comes down to the woman to decide whether or not to “spread her legs”.

119

[quote]Mick28 wrote:
It was only a little funny the first time that you missed it. Now I’m embarrassed for you.

Go back and reread my first few posts on the topic. They’re short and to the point. You’re not a dumb guy…

If you’re still confused after that I’ll explain it to you step by step.

(…)[/quote]

Fine. Let’s have the step by step.

120

if you make a kid and she wants to keep it, man the fuck up and be a dad. your life is on hold now for 18 years