Me: did you vote?
Female Friend: no
Female Friend: i couldn’t vote
Me: because you’re female, and in the south?
Female Friend: i didn’t know if i was going to stay here so i didn’t bother
Female Friend: and that
Female Friend: fucking pointless
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
…MOST men are NOT leaders, do not aspire to be, and would not be capable of. Does anyone really need me to state this?
[/quote]
MOST men compared to MOST women ARE.
Does anyone really need me to state this?
[/quote]
You have no way of ever actually demonstrating this. Earning power does not equal leadership, and even if it did, women’s earning power is lower than men’s for reasons way more numerous and complex than simple biological differences that cannot be overcome.[/quote]
Look at small group behavior, especially in crisis situations. Men often rise to the leadership roles setting direction; women often execute on that direction and keep things running smoothly.[/quote]
Look at small group behavior, especially in crisis situations. Women often rise to the leadership roles setting direction; men often execute on that direction and keep things running smoothly.
See, I can make unverifiable, unquantifiable generalizations as well.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
Me: did you vote?
Female Friend: no
Female Friend: i couldn’t vote
Me: because you’re female, and in the south?
Female Friend: i didn’t know if i was going to stay here so i didn’t bother
Female Friend: and that
Female Friend: fucking pointless[/quote]
What are you implying, that women don’t vote? They’ve voted in larger numbers than men in this country in the last two Presidential elections.
Lol, stop taking me seriously.
[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
I have a student who has no father (that I know of, anyway), who’s mother used to actually actively try and dress his kid like a girl, tying his hair in a little topknot, buying him girls’ pink socks, painting his fingernails pink. We used to think it was pretty weird, but whatever, he was her son to raise. Well, sure enough, after a couple of years he is as boyish as any other boy, likes Pokemon, no more fingernail polish or pink clothes or topknots or anything. [/quote]
I had a kid like that when I was in Japan…I wasn’t around long enough to see what happened when he got a bit older though… hopefully he was okay… The mother seemed… off a bit.
Of course I’m not saying that. No where have I implied as much. This entire thread has been about certain innate traits that, speaking generally, lead one sex to act in a certain way, and another to act differently. Which, again, is a GOOD thing.
[quote]
Re:netflix … can you actually get netfilx in Japan now?!? awesome. [/quote]
Heheh. Yes, I can, my friend. Perfectly legally, with perfect quality HD streaming. If you are back, PM or Facebook message me and I’ll tell you what to do. My son is LOVING him some Apple TV (which he calls ringo terebi to his mom, and POWER RANGERS SAMURAI!!!
[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
Thanks for the thread guys. It was an interesting read. Overall, I actually find myself on DBs side on this one. While there are rather obvious differences between the sexes, I don’t think that “leadership” is inherently male or masculine.
I remember talking with an older female family member* about education. She was a brilliant woman who managed the finances in her household. She brought up many kids, put a good number of them through college, and adequately put money away for “the bad years” (strokes, illnesses, needing a new house, etc) as well. Despite her obvious-to-anyone-who-met-her intellect, she was a janitor. I asked her why she didn’t get a college degree.
“College?!? Hell, I had to fight my father just to get him to let me attend High School.” She went on to tell me of her fight with her father.
Many of her children got college degrees. Many of her grandchildren are now in positions of authority. I would guess that some of them will have some serious money and power before I die. Yes, some of them are female. Obviously this is just anecdotal. But with headwinds like “you shouldn’t even be attending High School,” there is little doubt in my mind as to why fewer females are in leadership positions today.
I see no correlation between attractiveness and education/occupation. “Causation” has got to be one of the silliest arguments I’ve heard on here outside of PWI.
*Edit to remove personal information. [/quote]
If what you were insinuating was actually true, it would mean that men have always been borderline evil; actively working to oppress and keep down anyone who was not basically white and male. But this isn’t a trait exclusive to man. This is a human trait. Men have done it to other men throughout most of history, as well. I can provide MANY examples. Think of Moses for the direction I would go if I were to do so.
What you are saying doesn’t add up. We see countless examples over time of people rising through unfavorable social structures , breaking through social barriers, and overcoming incredible odds to rise to the top. As a matter of fact, I would posit that many of the greatest leaders of all time have almost exclusively had to deal with extreme levels of oppression, conflict, backstabbing, and have had to face nearly insurmountable odds in order to become the leaders that they did. Since women have had so much more of this so-called oppression to deal with, if they were really equal to men, we should see many many more of them rise up despite it, or even because of it, to become great leaders. We should at least see a larger percentage than we do now.
Why is that?
[/quote]
I guess I see it as a product of history + male physical strength. You’d probably argue “culture” as to why certain countries/groups historically didn’t “rise up”… I guess I’m thinking of this in the same way.
What do you mean by “really equal to men”?
I’m not sure we see “evil” in the same way based on this post. I really don’t understand how what I wrote would imply that at all.
[/quote]
“Equal to men in this respect.”
I think if it was purely a product of history + male physical strength, and I’m not so limited as to not understand the effect that does have, there are still enough cultures have have just done things differently or been forced to deal with different situations, that things would not be this way. However, even in primitive tribal groups where all able bodied were off at war, in any account I have read of, it was not the women who were left in charge, but he male village elders. And before you say they were already the leaders, remember that they had been leaders at war. The women knew better how to take care of the domestic front, and might have been better suited to lead in that respect. That is, if leadership were some simple, zero-sum equation.
Back to the history + male physical strength point. This is not the reason for 10,000 plus years of male leadership and dominance. It is a single aspect of the bigger picture, that picture showing a landscape filled with men and women who are first biologically inclined toward certain preferences, personalities, inclinations and behaviors, and then act accordingly.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
Heheh. Yes, I can, my friend. Perfectly legally, with perfect quality HD streaming. If you are back, PM or Facebook message me and I’ll tell you what to do. My son is LOVING him some Apple TV (which he calls ringo terebi to his mom, and POWER RANGERS SAMURAI!!![/quote]
WTF?
Spill the beans, Cortes!!!
Ok, message coming…[/quote]
It will pretty much be something like a fake US IP address and some means to pay for it.
I would have done it myself, but the lure of the Power Rangers SAMURAI!!! was not as strong for me as it seems to have been for others.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]Cortes wrote:
Heheh. Yes, I can, my friend. Perfectly legally, with perfect quality HD streaming. If you are back, PM or Facebook message me and I’ll tell you what to do. My son is LOVING him some Apple TV (which he calls ringo terebi to his mom, and POWER RANGERS SAMURAI!!![/quote]
WTF?
Spill the beans, Cortes!!!
Ok, message coming…[/quote]
It will pretty much be something like a fake US IP address and some means to pay for it.
I would have done it myself, but the lure of the Power Rangers SAMURAI!!! was not as strong for me as it seems to have been for others. [/quote]
Heh, yeah pretty much that’s it.
Hey, there’s virile Austrian grown-up fare that makes it worth watching, as well. I just watched Mel Gibson’s Get The Gringo last night and I can’t remember the last time I had so much fun watching a movie.
I’ll get a message out to you in a bit, Chushin.
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
…MOST men are NOT leaders, do not aspire to be, and would not be capable of. Does anyone really need me to state this?
[/quote]
MOST men compared to MOST women ARE.
Does anyone really need me to state this?
[/quote]
You have no way of ever actually demonstrating this. Earning power does not equal leadership, and even if it did, women’s earning power is lower than men’s for reasons way more numerous and complex than simple biological differences that cannot be overcome.[/quote]
Look at small group behavior, especially in crisis situations. Men often rise to the leadership roles setting direction; women often execute on that direction and keep things running smoothly.[/quote]
Look at small group behavior, especially in crisis situations. Women often rise to the leadership roles setting direction; men often execute on that direction and keep things running smoothly.
See, I can make unverifiable, unquantifiable generalizations as well.
[/quote]
Yes, you can. But one jives with observational experience, and one doesn’t.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]DBCooper wrote:
[quote]pushharder wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
…MOST men are NOT leaders, do not aspire to be, and would not be capable of. Does anyone really need me to state this?
[/quote]
MOST men compared to MOST women ARE.
Does anyone really need me to state this?
[/quote]
You have no way of ever actually demonstrating this. Earning power does not equal leadership, and even if it did, women’s earning power is lower than men’s for reasons way more numerous and complex than simple biological differences that cannot be overcome.[/quote]
Look at small group behavior, especially in crisis situations. Men often rise to the leadership roles setting direction; women often execute on that direction and keep things running smoothly.[/quote]
Look at small group behavior, especially in crisis situations. Women often rise to the leadership roles setting direction; men often execute on that direction and keep things running smoothly.
See, I can make unverifiable, unquantifiable generalizations as well.
[/quote]
Yes, you can. But one jives with observational experience, and one doesn’t.[/quote]
Who’s observational experience? Myself and many others in this thread can attest to observing the experience I laid out as well. And again, I think any differences in the AMOUNT of times my scenario happens versus yours have roots in a long, long history in which women were expected to behave a certain way, an expectation placed on them by men and not by their own nature.
To the regret of many on this board I’m sure, women are viewed as being much more equal to men in all respects far more than they have in the last several hundred years. At the same time, as they have gained that superficial level of equality, we have seen more and more women gain positions of leadership and have those sorts of opportunities available in both the business and political world more than ever.
It isn’t a coincidence that as women’s rights have increased and as they have been viewed as more equal to men than ever, they have gained more and more leadership positions in business and politics. Men HAVE taken a lot of steps to keep women out of these arenas in the past. If women were inherently adverse toward leadership roles, then why is it as they are given more access we see more women leaders?
If they don’t have the proclivity for it, then wouldn’t women largely reject these opportunities? I understand that some statistic pertaining to some random group of women in Africa that RajRaj pulls out of his ass may indicate that 70% of women eschew leadership opportunities, but the point is that every year there are more women taking advantage. It won’t become a percentage equal to men over night, but eventually I think we will see a balancing out of leadership roles between men and women as women are given access to them over more and more generations.
So, there’s some irony in watching Power Rangers in Japan. When I lived in France in '88-'89, I used to watch BIOMAN, which was the original Japanese show dubbed in French.
Then, they kept the fight scenes, but changed out the characters and plot lines when they redid it for the US audience.
You guy waste waaaay too much energy trying to find limitations for people.
That’s all this fucking innate shit is.
Years ago when I was studying AI I was focusing on neural networks. I had a project where I built a bunch of simple robots who basically acted as a node in a neural network to demonstrate. But I fucked up the programming at first and they were getting the negative and positive feedback reversed and were banging themselves against the wall repeatedly instead of going into formation like I was hoping they would. I had to manually bump the sensors of a few of them to get it to propagate and it took a few times for it to overcome the bad input they were getting but eventually the ‘good’ input dominated. Anyways, to make a long story short I had an epiphany that if that is an abstract of my mind then I can make it do whatever the fuck I want it to. And so I do. Nature shmature.
[quote]debraD wrote:
You guy waste waaaay too much energy trying to find limitations for people.
That’s all this fucking innate shit is.
Years ago when I was studying AI I was focusing on neural networks. I had a project where I built a bunch of simple robots who basically acted as a node in a neural network to demonstrate. But I fucked up the programming at first and they were getting the negative and positive feedback reversed and were banging themselves against the wall repeatedly instead of going into formation like I was hoping they would. I had to manually bump the sensors of a few of them to get it to propagate and it took a few times for it to overcome the bad input they were getting but eventually the ‘good’ input dominated. Anyways, to make a long story short I had an epiphany that if that is an abstract of my mind then I can make it do whatever the fuck I want it to. And so I do. Nature shmature.
[/quote]
Soooo…
How many sensors you would like us to knock out of how many women?
Assuming that I do not necessarily want to control them, just not up to pay for their little power trip?
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]debraD wrote:
You guy waste waaaay too much energy trying to find limitations for people.
That’s all this fucking innate shit is.
Years ago when I was studying AI I was focusing on neural networks. I had a project where I built a bunch of simple robots who basically acted as a node in a neural network to demonstrate. But I fucked up the programming at first and they were getting the negative and positive feedback reversed and were banging themselves against the wall repeatedly instead of going into formation like I was hoping they would. I had to manually bump the sensors of a few of them to get it to propagate and it took a few times for it to overcome the bad input they were getting but eventually the ‘good’ input dominated. Anyways, to make a long story short I had an epiphany that if that is an abstract of my mind then I can make it do whatever the fuck I want it to. And so I do. Nature shmature.
[/quote]
Soooo…
How many sensors you would like us to knock out of how many women?
Assuming that I do not necessarily want to control them, just not up to pay for their little power trip?[/quote]
I don’t have the slightest idea what you’re talking about but I suspect it doesn’t matter–whatever I ought to be convincing you of smacks of too much effort.
[quote]debraD wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]debraD wrote:
You guy waste waaaay too much energy trying to find limitations for people.
That’s all this fucking innate shit is.
Years ago when I was studying AI I was focusing on neural networks. I had a project where I built a bunch of simple robots who basically acted as a node in a neural network to demonstrate. But I fucked up the programming at first and they were getting the negative and positive feedback reversed and were banging themselves against the wall repeatedly instead of going into formation like I was hoping they would. I had to manually bump the sensors of a few of them to get it to propagate and it took a few times for it to overcome the bad input they were getting but eventually the ‘good’ input dominated. Anyways, to make a long story short I had an epiphany that if that is an abstract of my mind then I can make it do whatever the fuck I want it to. And so I do. Nature shmature.
[/quote]
Soooo…
How many sensors you would like us to knock out of how many women?
Assuming that I do not necessarily want to control them, just not up to pay for their little power trip?[/quote]
I don’t have the slightest idea what you’re talking about but I suspect it doesn’t matter–whatever I ought to be convincing you of smacks of too much effort.[/quote]
Yeah, that sounds about right to me.
Please, for the love of God, do not waste any energy trying to understand what a man might be talking about, you little Eloi…
Enjoy your time in the sun.
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]debraD wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]debraD wrote:
You guy waste waaaay too much energy trying to find limitations for people.
That’s all this fucking innate shit is.
Years ago when I was studying AI I was focusing on neural networks. I had a project where I built a bunch of simple robots who basically acted as a node in a neural network to demonstrate. But I fucked up the programming at first and they were getting the negative and positive feedback reversed and were banging themselves against the wall repeatedly instead of going into formation like I was hoping they would. I had to manually bump the sensors of a few of them to get it to propagate and it took a few times for it to overcome the bad input they were getting but eventually the ‘good’ input dominated. Anyways, to make a long story short I had an epiphany that if that is an abstract of my mind then I can make it do whatever the fuck I want it to. And so I do. Nature shmature.
[/quote]
Soooo…
How many sensors you would like us to knock out of how many women?
Assuming that I do not necessarily want to control them, just not up to pay for their little power trip?[/quote]
I don’t have the slightest idea what you’re talking about but I suspect it doesn’t matter–whatever I ought to be convincing you of smacks of too much effort.[/quote]
Yeah, that sounds about right to me.
Please, for the love of God, do not waste any energy trying to understand what a man might be talking about, you little Eloi…
Enjoy your time in the sun.[/quote]
Why would I bother trying to understand someone who only has contempt for me? Doesn’t make sense. Makes more sense to punch a brick wall.