[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]orion wrote:
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
I’m sorry, but how do you know what women DESIRE to be?? I don’t see anything emasculating about a man vacuuming, though if he felt the need to wear an apron to do it I might get turned off, because that’s sort of bizarre and cross-dressy, which are turn-offs to me. But just plain vacuuming? Neutral. I envision a couple deciding she’ll load the dishwasher while he runs the vacuum because they both worked all week and now want to get chores done quickly so they can go outside and play.
[/quote]
Its not so much what they desire, it is what they are programmed to be.
If you do more housework than her you are her bitch and you are out as soon as she no longer needs you.
If you do an equal amount and she tells you what to do, the same applies.
On the other hand, if you lift no hand in the household whatsoever you can reduce her to tears by filling the dish washer once every blue moon.
Ya, I know, that does not make sense, at least not emotionally, but this is how it is.
If you want a woman to be happy you position yourself above her in the social hierarchy and you stay there no matter how much she tries to pull you down.
I for one have no desire to be the guy she comes home to and kisses with the same mouth some immature, alcoholic and broke Alpha-oid just came into just because he pushed the right buttons.
Fuck no.
Practical solution for men, get a cleaning lady.
If you cant afford one, do the job while she is away and claim the pumpkin fairies did it or some other bullshit. [/quote]
There are all sorts of potential role scenarios that make willingness to engage in housework more or less sexy. She may or may not be in the workforce, which makes a difference.
I have a friend who is married to an Air Force officer. She’s only worked sporadically, in low paying jobs (e.g. retail clerk). He does not do housework or yard work. She gripes occasionally and personally, I’m a little offended when she does. So sorry princess! I find them both mildly unsexy.
Another friend is married to an attorney and works part time for their church. They have someone come in to clean bi-weekly. She doesn’t expect help, and in fact is very tuned into what he may need (comfort foods during trials, when he’s working a lot). They tend to host friends and family, when they do he helps clean up while they talk about the evening. They do laundry together usually because it means carrying stuff and sitting in the basement of their building. It’s hang-out time for them. I find them sexy.
Another friend is married to an older man who is retired. She works and he does only minimal housework. On the weekends she cooks for the week. Previously he worked while she stayed home (with no kids home). He grosses me out (zero respect) and I find her persistent simmering resentment depressing. Not sexy.
Seems to me housework should be divided according to available time and circumstance. A stay at home mother of two children with a working husband should be managing the house as her contribution. A couple with two working parents should divide it evenly unless someone works more hours. Which isn’t to say they should do the same things, but time invested should match.
Your scenario above makes me once again speculate about the quality of woman you’re envisioning. I see your weep-with-joy woman as working at the Walmart or Denny’s and desperate for escape, because a higher quality, more self-respecting woman would label you “lazy” and GTFO.
I do agree with this. It’s not sexy at all and that relationship is doomed. Women are more likely to accept being ordered around by a mate, but that, too, is unsexy, and sex will probably be grudging and unwanted.
The idea of “positioning yourself above her” has merit to me, but I think there are a thousand and one ways to do this with dignity and honor and without stooping to being the lazy fuck who expects to be waited on by a woman who’s been on her feet all day. A man with a good, strong sense of self will always be someone a woman can look up to with admiration. Of course, in order to be someone with a strong sense of self he probably does things that correlate with success. But she doesn’t have to be less successful to admire him. She just has to be less physically strong or fast or good at math or quick with jigsaws or whatever.
Personally, I admire men’s maleness. I don’t have that. I have an income and a nice car and a graduate degree, but I can’t always get the pickles out of the jar. I also don’t have a penis or the testosterone that runs those. He can position himself above me by…well, by positioning himself above me. We don’t need manipulation, nature has taken care of it. If he’s a good guy and satisfies me sexually and isn’t a lazy asshole or a demanding prick, my mouth will be clean when he kisses it*.
*My mouth will be clean regardless. I don’t cheat. I would end the relationship. I can because I have a career, so I don’t HAVE to stay with a man I don’t respect.
Actually, Orion, respect is what you’re talking about generally. I think you seek it in ways that guarantee poor outcome. Respecting a guy because he has a job and a car is a pretty minimal standard. Respecting a guy because he acts like a self-centered boor…what does that say about me if I am that woman?
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Good post, Emily.
Matter of fact, I have no problem with almost anything you’ve said in this entire thread.
You are a stunningly effective troll.
('_^)