[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
Al Qaeda’s affiliation with the taliban in Afghanistan is not a threat, nor association with our enemies? Are you stupid? [/quote]
I think ElbowStrike had Iraq in mind.
[quote]lixy wrote:
austin_bicep wrote:
Al Qaeda’s affiliation with the taliban in Afghanistan is not a threat, nor association with our enemies? Are you stupid?
I think ElbowStrike had Iraq in mind.[/quote]
Indeed. That was pretty damn obvious.
Are you stupid? 
I think ElbowStrike had Iraq in mind.
Probably, but the thread is about Afghanistan.
Lets please stay on topic.
50x
[quote]ElbowStrike wrote:
lixy wrote:
austin_bicep wrote:
Al Qaeda’s affiliation with the taliban in Afghanistan is not a threat, nor association with our enemies? Are you stupid?
I think ElbowStrike had Iraq in mind.
Indeed. That was pretty damn obvious.
Are you stupid? ;)[/quote]
The thread is about afghanistan. If you would like to get off topic and discuss U.S. policy negatively than how about we discuss Canadian healthcare.
I’m actually a little tired of the bickering although I am very pro U.S., as we can see, ALL countries have their issues. The only reason we hear about the U.S. so much is that our influence has a much greater impact on the world than many other countries.
[quote]50x wrote:
Probably, but the thread is about Afghanistan.
Lets please stay on topic.
50x[/quote]
Well, the OP wanted to show how the “American Soldiers” deserve credit for the opening of a women’s gym. While I do respect those who would sacrifice their lives so that chicks can get in shape, I have absolutely no doubt that the majority went to Afghanistan to kill the people sheltering the bastards that attacked the US on 9/11. Nothing more, nothing less.
Afghanistan doesn’t exist in a void. And if you want to sell the idea that American troops are models of heroism, it may help if they didn’t kill innocents in countries that did absolutely to them. Iraq is a clear and unambiguous case of a war of aggression. What happened there is a crime against humanity, and trust me, you aren’t getting off that easy. The US will NOT get out of Iraq in our lifetimes, and generations of Iraqis will loathe the people who killed or maimed so many innocents and made millions refugees.
Read the thread for a change. You’ll realize that John S.’ cheap shot at Sweden is prompted Elbow to bring up the war on Iraq.
[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
The thread is about afghanistan. [/quote]
No. It’s about the “American Soldiers” whom the OP think deserve cheers for a women’s gym opening its doors in Afghanistan.
There is consensus in international polls: US foreign policy is the single most important threat to peace on the planet. But if you think Canadian healthcare policy might affect people on the other side of the planet (or just feel like ranting about the Commies up north), feel free to start a thread.
Sure.
But there’s a tremendous difference between the Swedish government refusing to let women walk the streets topless, the French jailing people for questioning the extent of the Holocaust, the punishment the Iranians see fit for people breaking the law, the Aussies’ treatment of illegal immigrants, and the Americans invading other countries.
And for heaven’s sake, stop using silly terms such as “pro U.S.”.
Look, just because you’re the only one to have a shotgun in town, doesn’t make you more prone to criticism. On the other hand, if you go around, smashing doors and killing people, unpopularity will inevitably ensue.
The US made it clear that it considers itself above the law. People in other countries (and judging from US polls, a substantial proportion of Americans), are vehemently opposed to that. You are already having the greatest impact on the world thanks to Hollywood, America’s superior cutting-edge products, music scene, etc. You don’t have to invade other countries, you don’t have to set up military bases on every corner of the planet, you don’t have to support dictators and you don’t have to be a bully.
[quote]lixy wrote:
austin_bicep wrote:
The thread is about afghanistan.
No. It’s about the “American Soldiers” whom the OP think deserve cheers for a women’s gym opening its doors in Afghanistan.
If you would like to get off topic and discuss U.S. policy negatively than how about we discuss Canadian healthcare.
There is consensus in international polls: US foreign policy is the single most important threat to peace on the planet. But if you think Canadian healthcare policy might affect people on the other side of the planet (or just feel like ranting about the Commies up north), feel free to start a thread.
I’m actually a little tired of the bickering although I am very pro U.S., as we can see, ALL countries have their issues.
Sure.
But there’s a tremendous difference between the Swedish government refusing to let women walk the streets topless, the French jailing people for questioning the extent of the Holocaust, the punishment the Iranians see fit for people breaking the law, the Aussies’ treatment of illegal immigrants, and the Americans invading other countries.
And for heaven’s sake, stop using silly terms such as “pro U.S.”.
The only reason we hear about the U.S. so much is that our influence has a much greater impact on the world than many other countries.
Look, just because you’re the only one to have a shotgun in town, doesn’t make you more prone to criticism. On the other hand, if you go around, smashing doors and killing people, unpopularity will inevitably ensue.
The US made it clear that it considers itself above the law. People in other countries (and judging from US polls, a substantial proportion of Americans), are vehemently opposed to that. You are already having the greatest impact on the world thanks to Hollywood, America’s superior cutting-edge products, music scene, etc. You don’t have to invade other countries, you don’t have to set up military bases on every corner of the planet, you don’t have to support dictators and you don’t have to be a bully. [/quote]
Show me the bullying lixy. Please show me it. The world is better without Saddam weapons or not. The world would be better without Al Qaeda, and we’re taking a stand. It’s too bad that Sweden is having controversy about whether or not women should be aloud to walk the streets topless, unfortunately Sweden gets involved and upset over petty matters and not many real world issues.
Pro means for, and I am for the United States. Nobody cares about Sweden, or too much of Australia, and France, they have not witnessed Al Qaeda. The U.S., Britain, Israel, and Spain, to name a few, have witnessed the destruction brought by Al Qaeda, and we have every right to set up military bases where we please. Nobody’s stopping us, nobody can.
[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
Show me the bullying lixy.
…
we have every right to set up military bases where we please. Nobody’s stopping us, nobody can.[/quote]
^ There’s an example right there.
“Can” does not equal “should”.
Taking up the “nobody can stop us, so fuck you!” position necessitates that you have to put up with billions of people being pissed off with you. You’re not allowed to complain.
You can’t have it both ways. You can maintain good relations with the world and fight terrorism without threatening global stability, or you can set up bases everywhere you please and piss off the entire world. Whichever way you go, the consequences are your responsibility.
If the US attacks Iran next and drives oil prices to $150-$250 and causes a global depression, that will be the United States’ fault and every person in the world will be well within their rights to be pissed off (except here in Alberta, where we have more oil than God; “Global Oil Crisis” means we all get new houses and cars).
I’m sick of those Americans who hold the “we can do whatever we want to!” attitude, and then expect the other 95% of the world to be cool with it. You can’t shit in your neighbour’s garden and expect that “I got a big gun, here!” will be happily accepted as good reason. Actions have consequences and the actor must take responsibility for them.
Have your “fuck ya’ll” opinion, but just don’t complain when your reputation suffers. You chose to sacrifice that reputation.
The majority of the world (myself included) was 100% behind the United States on 9/11 and in the attack on the Taliban and Al Qaeda in Afghanistan.
Then Bush started talking about going into Iraq.
How about those WMD’s?
Now if the budget for the Iraq war were being spent into Afghanistan (along with the now-lost, overwhelming global support), the war could be over by now.
No matter. Economics will eventually stop you. Bush has already begun to “borrow” (read: print and spend) money from the Federal Reserve to finance war in Iraq. A few months later the American dollar tanked and people wondered why. If he continues on that path, we’re all in trouble.
Contrary to the national mythology, the United States is not invincible. She can fall if her limited resources are abused by reckless leaders.
ElbowStrike
[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
Show me the bullying lixy. Please show me it. [/quote]
The US has bombed dozens of countries since WWII. It has killed more foreigners than any other nation on earth. It makes violent threats on a regular basis. It only attacks weak countries (think those that can’t send a missile to the US).
In my book, that’s bullying.
What weapons?
Now of course, Saddam was a bad guy and getting rid of him is a good thing. But turning Iraq into a terrorist breeding ground, killing people by the boatload and displacing millions is certainly not worth the man’s life. Of course, everybody knew that, but in the mind of the American policy makers, all those deaths (keep in mind the thousands of Americans as well) are a cheap price to pay in order to get bases in Iraq.
Absolutely. I don’t know anyone who disagrees with that. But the fact of the matter is that attacking Iraq has been the single most important event in strengthening Al-Qaeda and boosting their recruitment figures. Heck, it’s become a franchise (see Algeria).
I fully supported the ousting of the Talibans.
Trust me, even Sweden suffers from your blunders.
There’s a town of 60,000 people around here that took, last year, twice the number of Iraqi refugees as the entire United States.
I know what it means smarty pants. The implication of using such a term is that your interlocutor is somehow “anti-US”. That is a fallacy.
Of course we care. Swedes died on 9/11. Those criminals attacked innocents and the whole world cared very much about it. Everybody was willing to lend a hand to punish the people behind it.
Now, Britain and Spain have been attacked post-GWII. That is an important point. Spaniards never supported America’s war of aggression. The majority was fiercely opposed to it as demonstrated by every single poll taken in 2003.
“The February 15, 2003, worldwide protests drew millions of people across the world. It is generally estimated that over 3 million people marched in Rome, between one and two million in London, more than 600,000 in Madrid, 300,000 in Berlin, as well as in Damascus, Paris, New York, Oslo, Stockholm, Brussels, Johannesburg, Montreal - more than 600 cities in all, worldwide. This demonstration was listed by the 2004 Guinness Book of Records as the largest mass protest movement in history.”
One more point: France has been suffering from Islamist terrorism before you even knew the first thing about Islam.
And a question: When did Al-Qaeda attack Israel?
Nice attitude. That oughta get less people pissed off at your country.
Tell me, how many people in your family are in the military?
[quote]lixy wrote:
Well, the OP wanted to show how the “American Soldiers” deserve credit for the opening of a women’s gym. While I do respect those who would sacrifice their lives so that chicks can get in shape, I have absolutely no doubt that the majority went to Afghanistan to kill the people sheltering the bastards that attacked the US on 9/11. Nothing more, nothing less.[/quote]
While this may be true, if the terrorists had not attacked us, we probably would not have been involved in Afghanistan or Iraq, (since the attack opened the doors for the president to have the political go a head to attack Iraq), these women would not be working out under the Taliban. They would be lucky to be begging in the street after being put out of a job, killed for not wearing a burka, or whipped for being with someone other than their husband.
Are you saying that life was better under the Taliban? This from an alleged “wahhabi hater”?
I would love to see some of these upset Iraqies. Most everyone I’ve met are happy with the job we’re doing here.
Now granted I work with the real peaple of the land and not the basic inner city psycho terrorist that seems to be getting all the press.
I suppose if the press would focus on the peaple of the country and not just the insurgency…Nah does’nt make good news.
50x
In Iraq none. Both My grandfathers served in the military. The other in the navy, who drove a transport ship in the pacific delivering soldiers on the battle torn shores. My great uncle was a decorated WWII vet fighting against Rommel, as well as in the battle of the Bulge. I have freinds from school who graduated before I who have served and died in Iraq, that’s as close to family as it gets.
What I said about America’s ability to be a bully, spouted from angry, although it is true. Unfortunately this is the net. I would much rather debate you in person, but that will never happen. I respect your views although I disagree with many, just thaught I’d let you know.
Edit: Forgot to answer the top of your post. Not many countries have intercontinental ballistic missles, so attacking one that can’t strike back is really their problem if the attack is legitamet. The other countries that have decent militaries are ususally our allies. Maybe other countries should try to grow economically which would lead to better technology, instead of looking at the U.S. as a bigger country so anyone we have a problem with we’re the bullies.
You know it didn’t start like that. The American revolution and the war of 1812, America was faced with much larger and greater enemies. I would also say the same for the spanish American war, that’s the war that turned the U.S. into a super power. IMHO the genocide Saddam was committing warrented his removal. As far as the emergance of more terrorists due to the U.S. is a sad fact of retaliation.
[quote]lixy wrote:
austin_bicep wrote:
Show me the bullying lixy. Please show me it.
The US has bombed dozens of countries since WWII. It has killed more foreigners than any other nation on earth. It makes violent threats on a regular basis. It only attacks weak countries (think those that can’t send a missile to the US).
[/quote]
B.S. We have killed more foreigners than any other nation on earth? What complete and utter bullshit. You obviously have no knowlege of history other than a terrible hatred of the United States. Why don’t you crack a history book once in a while instead of your left wing jihadi rags and maybe you’d learn a thing or two.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Are you saying that life was better under the Taliban? [/quote]
What post of mine gave you that idea?
Stop making stuff up in your head.
[quote]50x wrote:
I would love to see some of these upset Iraqies. Most everyone I’ve met are happy with the job we’re doing here. [/quote]
It’s not so much what you are doing now than what you did five years ago people are pissed off about.
The impression you get from Iraqis nowadays is due to the fait accompli and little more. Plus, survival instinct would probably kick in when talking to a heavily armed about his/her job.
What caused “basic inner city psycho terrorist” to emerge? Global warming?
Sheesh…
I’ll concede that one.
Although I consider the American media accomplices in the war of aggression. They gave in to the post-9/11 nationalist-feer and did a perfect job at echoing every single lie from the White House about Iraq.
[quote]lixy wrote:
I’ll concede that one.
Although I consider the American media accomplices in the war of aggression. They gave in to the post-9/11 nationalist-feer and did a perfect job at echoing every single lie from the White House about Iraq.[/quote]
considering the fact that most news agencies are run by democrats, (no hate towards you guys, but most of you guys don’t support the war, although you do support the troops very well the news agencies at least in my residency(New York) seem anti war, which stations do you watch, and what are you talking about?
[quote]lixy wrote:
Gkhan wrote:
Are you saying that life was better under the Taliban?
What post of mine gave you that idea?
[/quote]
None, actually, I was interested in your opinion.
[quote]austin_bicep wrote:
I have freinds from school who graduated before I who have served and died in Iraq, that’s as close to family as it gets. [/quote]
Sincerest condolences.
This is a pretty naive statement. There are plenty of countries that are doing very well, and yet, are actively cutting on their military spendings.
Better yet, why do you hand out billions of dollars every year for countries to purchase weapons?
I’d situate it more around the Monroe era, but then again, you probably know more about your country than I do.
I totally agree with you. But it’s the means used that I have a problem with.
Saddam Hussein agreed to go into exile. That could have been the perfect opportunity for a more progressive and less belligerent Iraq. Heck, you could have even assassinated him for all I care.
The genocide was nothing but a pretext. Look at the support the US (among others) have been given him in the 80s. Look at Pinochet, Suharto, and the many others US-backed tyrants.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
B.S. We have killed more foreigners than any other nation on earth? What complete and utter bullshit. You obviously have no knowlege of history other than a terrible hatred of the United States. Why don’t you crack a history book once in a while instead of your left wing jihadi rags and maybe you’d learn a thing or two.[/quote]
I’m open to learning.
What nation attacked more countries and killed more foreigners since WWII than the US?
The Soviet Union. They and their allies caused more deaths by exporting communism globally.
Here’s some notes for you to look at:
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/atrox.htm
example: the exportation of communism by the Soviet Union to China cost the Chinese 40 million lives, to Cambodia 1,650 thousand, to Korea less than 400 thousand…