austin_bicep wrote:
In regards to me telling people they have no clue what they are talking about, it was stated that the U.S. has not won a war since WW2, and thats a bullshit claim at the least. Also the role of the United States in WW2 has been downplayed and that is also bullshit. There is not one person on here that could make even the slightest attempt at justifying that the United States was not the number one reason that the Allies won the war.
[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
In a democracy, the rural, jobless backwards people can impose the merciless tyranny of the majority. [/quote]
I don’t get it. Are you saying that the Afghans, the Saudis or the Somalis chose their fate? Where’s democracy in all this?
[quote]If you visit Istanbul or Ankara, the prople are all secular, cosmopolitan and nice. But go eastwards and prepare to get stoned if you flirt with some village-beauty. Same goes for most islamic nations.
Give the jobs, a modern, clean, urban environment and the majority will soon forget all that sharia nonsense.[/quote]
I’m having trouble understanding your point. So let me restate mine before we take this any further: People put up with the lack of freedoms for a greater sense of security. That is something you can observe from London to Islamabad.
You can give Saudis all the jobs in the world, but it won’t change the fact that they will continue to be ruled by tyrants who claim to do the will of God. That is unlikely to change while the people still have food on their table.
[quote]lixy wrote:
I don’t get it. Are you saying that the Afghans, the Saudis or the Somalis chose their fate? Where’s democracy in all this?[/quote]
This thread and Beowulf’s comment was about Afghanistan. The taliban -hotheaded, illiterate, violent thugs- came into power because of the general war-turmoil and America’s material and logistical assistance. Not because they “understood” the people’s needs. That is complete nonsense.
Now you brought forth Iraq. People there would democratically vote for a caliphate because of the things I mentioned. But you are right in so far that they would vote for anyone just for the violence to stop.
[quote]lixy wrote:
I’m having trouble understanding your point. So let me restate mine before we take this any further: People put up with the lack of freedoms for a greater sense of security. That is something you can observe from London to Islamabad.
You can give Saudis all the jobs in the world, but it won’t change the fact that they will continue to be ruled by tyrants who claim to do the will of God. That is unlikely to change while the people still have food on their table. [/quote]
Saudis are a special case. There’s big money right under the sand and the people are getting pampered by the royal family. Life is not bad in Saudi Arabia if you are Saudi, so why should you stand up and challenge the leaders and their divine claim? The princes could claim they are Satan’s heirs and no one would protest. But let’s wait till the sands run dry…
If there will be a job shortage and too many youth hotheads, prepare for some juicy uprisings.
[quote]John S. wrote:
You damn right. This double standard bullshit, is just that bullshit. People come to an American site and start ranting about how America is bad, then try and call us a bunch of bullies when we defend ourselves.[/quote]
This is silly. First of all, how can you call this site an American site? Second of all, you may agree or disagree with certain positions taken here, but does that mean that someone should shut up just because they are not American?
Or do you just prefer to shut yourself up in your insular provincialism, close your eyes, ears and make the world go away?
[quote]entheogens wrote:
John S. wrote:
You damn right. This double standard bullshit, is just that bullshit. People come to an American site and start ranting about how America is bad, then try and call us a bunch of bullies when we defend ourselves.
This is silly. First of all, how can you call this site an American site? Second of all, you may agree or disagree with certain positions taken here, but does that mean that someone should shut up just because they are not American?
Or do you just prefer to shut yourself up in your insular provincialism, close your eyes, ears and make the world go away?
[/quote]
Where is this site running out of? Thats right America. This is an American run site. No I do not think people should shut up if they are not American but some asshats™ have come to this site only to insult America. Now hopefully you are smart enough to at least figure out who those are that I have called out. Any other questions or was this all you needed?
No oil in Afghanistan. You need to learn more about the situation before you start posting such tripe.[/quote]
No oil under Afghanistan BUT a desire to run an oil pipe through Afghanistan by such as UNOCAL? No?!
Look, the problem with these types of zero-sum arguments is that it does not take into account that there can be a confluence of reasons- good and bad- for waging war in Afghanistan.
It is true that without the US, the Taliban would have never come to power in Afghanistan in the first place.
Before the Taliban came to power, there were large-scale reforms to emancipate women in Afghanistan. Zbigniev Brzezinski, national security director under Carter, admitted to having planted CIA agents in Afghanistan in order to aid the Mujahadeen (what would become the Taliban) to destabilize the government there in order to provoke the Soviet Union to invade(which was an ally of Afghanistan at the time…BTW so was India). Here’s the interview Brzezinski did with the weekly Le Nouvel Observateur in which he admitted as much (sorry, it is written in the EVIL french language, but you can probably find a translation): http://mejliss.com/showthread.php?t=241795
You might say that that was a mistake or just part of Cold War real politick. However, no matter, it’s still a good thing that we got rid of the Taliban. And it is a good thing, I think.
I don’t know if there are other reasons the U.S. entered Afghanistan other than as retaliation against the attack. Was it the oil pipeline? Is it to have troops stationed in the Middle East to be easily deployed and serve as a reminder to the Oil rich countries that we can still kick ass, if they don’t behave…or to be strategically placed in relation to the oil fields now that there are other oil hungry countries that risk becoming super-powers and challenging us (China)? I don’t know. However, given US past foreign policy in this region and others, I can understand Lixy’s and other people’s doubts about American humanitarianism (I am talking about the government’s intentions…I have no reason to doubt that most soldiers are there with noble intentions).
[quote]John S. wrote:
Where is this site running out of? Thats right America. This is an American run site. No I do not think people should shut up if they are not American but some asshats™ have come to this site only to insult America. Now hopefully you are smart enough to at least figure out who those are that I have called out. Any other questions or was this all you needed?[/quote]
Well, the servers might be in America, but it gets transmitted into other countries. Perhaps, though, T-Nation should make it part of the sign-up agreement that “FURNERS” are only allowed to post or buy products here if they agree not to say anything critical of the United States.
In any case, since you have such a monopoly on truth, you should welcome the opportunity to enlighten the backward masses that come up here from other countries.
Now, if you will excuse me, I am going to go out and kick some immigrants’ ass while singing “Star Spangled Banner”.
[quote]entheogens wrote:
John S. wrote:
Where is this site running out of? Thats right America. This is an American run site. No I do not think people should shut up if they are not American but some asshats™ have come to this site only to insult America. Now hopefully you are smart enough to at least figure out who those are that I have called out. Any other questions or was this all you needed?
Well, the servers might be in America, but it gets transmitted into other countries. Perhaps, though, T-Nation should make it part of the sign-up agreement that “FURNERS” are only allowed to post or buy products here if they agree not to say anything critical of the United States.
In any case, since you have such a monopoly on truth, you should welcome the opportunity to enlighten the backward masses that come up here from other countries.
Now, if you will excuse me, I am going to go out and kick some immigrants’ ass while singing “Star Spangled Banner”.
[/quote]
You do realize there are some people on this site that do nothing but say shit about America. Don’t talk about how they lift or anything like that they just bash America. If someone talks about training and actually offers something to the site then they have every right to discuss there point of view. But if you sit there and do nothing else your a jackass and need to go to somewhere else.
If you think I am about kicking immigrants asses out then you are really mistaken or are just being one giant douche.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
Chushin wrote:
lixy wrote:
Only once you realize that the world is not black and white can you challenge the (ludicrous?) idea that the US is the most noble nation on Earth.
Which nation would be? (Please don’t mention some insignificant little country – like Austria – that has little impact in the real world; I’d like to know which country THAT HAS A SIGNIFICANT AND TRUE impact on things is “the most noble.”)
Relatedly: Which country in the world best exemplifies your ideals (edit: or comes closest)? In fact, how about a “Top 5” of Lixy Approved Nations?
Lixy,
Perhaps you missed this? I am genuinely interested in knowing your thoughts on these questions.
[/quote]
Depends on what you mean by “a significant and true impact on things”. As far as I know, every country has a noticeable impact within its own sphere of influence. And you can also make the case that every other country is insignificant compared to the impact the US has on the world.
Am I missing something or was that indeed a completely random thought?
[quote]Chushin wrote:
…[/quote]
I never said there was a “model” to emulate, merely stated that the picture John S. has of his country is straight out of a fantasy book.
Here’s the thing: when you arm yourself to the teeth, chances are that you’ll end up actively looking for ways to amortize your investment. That much is certain. Being strong is OK by me, as long as you obey the rules and don’t attack people who didn’t harm you.
I don’t have a “hatred for US policy”. I have a problem with the preemptive crap the US has been pulling for as long as I can remember. If France, Brazil or China was to do the same thing, you can be sure that I’ll be all over them.
And for the record, the EU is represented in the G8. It may not be a country per se, but it’s an entity that has significant and true impact on the world, and yet, manages to keep some morality – relatively.
[quote]Gkhan wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
The Taliban obviously understood that giving up freedoms for security is exactly what the people want.
Lol
Yet, you condemn GWB and the Government in this country for the same thing??? (ie Patriot Act, Airport Security measures, ect)
[/quote]
…Did you miss the Lol or do you just not know what it means…?
Lol = Laugh out loud, as in, it was a sarcastic joke. I was implying that the fact that the people accept such bullshit as the Taliban because they fear for their safety is the same KIND (on an entirely different level) of shit we are starting to put up with here, like the Patriot Act.
Am I missing something or was that indeed a completely random thought?
Chushin wrote:
…
I never said there was a “model” to emulate, merely stated that the picture John S. has of his country is straight out of a fantasy book.
Here’s the thing: when you arm yourself to the teeth, chances are that you’ll end up actively looking for ways to amortize your investment. That much is certain. Being strong is OK by me, as long as you obey the rules and don’t attack people who didn’t harm you.
I don’t have a “hatred for US policy”. I have a problem with the preemptive crap the US has been pulling for as long as I can remember. If France, Brazil or China was to do the same thing, you can be sure that I’ll be all over them.
And for the record, the EU is represented in the G8. It may not be a country per se, but it’s an entity that has significant and true impact on the world, and yet, manages to keep some morality – relatively.[/quote]
It must really piss you off that my “fantasy” of America is right. Maybe one day when Sweden does something and you have pride in your country then we can talk.
[quote]John S. wrote:
It must really piss you off that my “fantasy” of America is right. Maybe one day when Sweden does something and you have pride in your country then we can talk.[/quote]
By “do something” do you mean invade another country, which poses no imminent threat nor association with your enemies, and then get stuck in the quagmire of ballooning national debt to fund an unwinnable guerrilla war?
By “do something” do you mean invade another country, which poses no imminent threat nor association with your enemies, and then get stuck in the quagmire of ballooning national debt to fund an unwinnable guerrilla war?
ElbowStrike[/quote]
Al Qaeda’s affiliation with the taliban in Afghanistan is not a threat, nor association with our enemies? Are you stupid?
